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[richiek]

The sale was made with no background check and was finalized in a parking lot.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/dallas-police-shooter-bought-ak-47-facebook

In 2014, Micah Johnson, who killed five police officers and injured seven in an ambush in Dallas last week, purchased an AK-47 rifle in a deal arranged through Facebook and finalized in a Target parking lot, according to the New York Daily News. In an interview with the Daily News, the seller, 26-year-old Colton Crews, said that Johnson "didn't stand out as a nut job. He didn't stand out as a crazy person at all." In fact, because Johnson had been a US military service member, Crews said "he was like your first pick when you're selling a gun to somebody."

 

[nynt9]

It's almost like we shouldn't let common folk decide who can buy guns and sell guns over facebook with no checks.

 

[devilhawk]

It's almost like we shouldn't let common folk decide who can buy guns and sell guns over facebook with no checks.

And what would the check have come back with in this case?

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

Over facebook? Shit, I bought a couple of shotguns at an estate auction last week. Showed up, got the winning, bid, handed over the cash and left. No record at all anywhere as to where to guns went.

 

[LlamaJohnson]

Gun laws are great....if, you know, people would actually follow them.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Maybe don't sell Ak-47s to citizens in the first place.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

I'm guessing there's no laws to prohibit citizens from selling their own guns to whoever they choose.

 

[HeySeuss]

And what would the check have come back with in this case?

I think that's his point. The only check required in most states for a personal sale is verifying the person is 21 by looking at their ID.

Anybody can buy a gun from a personal seller without a background check in many/most states.

 

[bigkrev]

This is what the "Gun Show Loophole" is. If you are an owner of a gun and want to sell it to someone (like when my grandfather died, he owned 2 guns and my mom sold them to a family friend for $1), you aren't required to preform a background check on the person, you just have observe them as not being crazy.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Over facebook? Shit, I bought a couple of shotguns at an estate auction last week. Showed up, got the winning, bid, handed over the cash and left. No record at all anywhere as to where to guns went.

And there it is,

 

[rokkerkory]

What the heck

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

What's the problem? This is America, and we worship a 250 year old constitutional amendment. God-given right and all that.

 

[Two Words]

Why are people allowed to sell guns, but people are getting killed for selling cigs?

 

[devilhawk]

I think that's his point. The only check required in most states for a personal sale is verifying the person is 21 by looking at their ID.

Anybody can buy a gun from a personal seller without a background check in many/most states.

I think you missed my point. I have no issue with requiring background checks on all sales. My questions is, in this incident, what would have come back with the background check that prevented a sale by the facebook guy? We know for a fact that his employer ran a check in 2015 that was perfectly clean.

 

[wesleyshark]

Why are people allowed to sell guns, but people are getting killed for selling cigs?

?

 

[Dishwalla]

Over facebook? Shit, I bought a couple of shotguns at an estate auction last week. Showed up, got the winning, bid, handed over the cash and left. No record at all anywhere as to where to guns went.

And you think that's a good thing?

 

[heliosRAzi]

?

Eric Garner

 

[Drensch]

Maybe don't sell Ak-47s to citizens in the first place.

Why?

While, I am in favor of closing the gun show loophole, would it have stopped this?
Did the shooter have any disqualifying history?

 

[entremet]

Shooter had no major issues that would've appeared in a background check.

 

[Amagon]

And you think that's a good thing?

Because, Murica!

 

[HeySeuss]

I think you missed my point. I have no issue with requiring background checks on all sales. My questions is, in this incident, what would have come back with the background check that prevented a sale by the facebook guy? We know for a fact that his employer ran a check in 2015 that was perfectly clean.

Oh my bad. Yeah it wouldn't have stopped him from buying a gun anywhere because he didn't have a background. I thought you were going somewhere else with that comment defending the gun show loophole.

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

And you think that's a good thing?

Honestly no. But for the sake of convenience, yes.

 

[bman94]

This is exactly why it isn't easy as "ban all guns". Black markets will bypass the system and we'd be in a even bigger problem.

Now I do believe psychological tests and pre-screenings as well as limits on how many guns can be sold will help in the long run, but it won't solve the core issue.

 

[bodyboarder]

And you think that's a good thing?

I think their point was you can buy guns at auction with no ID or paper trail.

 

[Blueliner]

This is far from new. It's called Gunbroker, it's classifieds for guns, basically the same set up as this interaction, you set up a meeting spot, cash for a gun, the deal is made.

 

[HeySeuss]

Honestly no. But for the sake of convenience, yes.

I'm pro gun, but the sake of convenience is not a good enough reason to bypass what little background checks we have.

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

I'm pro gun, but the sake of convenience is not a good enough reason to bypass what little background checks we have.

Im not saying it is. If I had to pass a check to get them it wouldnt have bothered me as I always have my P2P card on me. But since I was really anxious to try out the double breech loader I got, not having to wait was nice.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Why?

While, I am in favor of closing the gun show loophole, would it have stopped this?
Did the shooter have any disqualifying history?

Yes he tried buying an Ak-47.

 

[The Faceless Master]

And what would the check have come back with in this case?

oh, i know! it would come back clean and he would get the gun anyway!

 

[War Eagle]

This is far from new. It's called Gunbroker, it's classifieds for guns, basically the same set up as this interaction, you set up a meeting spot, cash for a gun, the deal is made.

Gunbroker requires you go through a FFL, who does the background check on you. At least in my state. This should be a federal law.

Source: Bought two items from Gunbroker myself.

 

[Drensch]

Yes he tried buying an Ak-47.

I'm sure I know where this is going, but AK is just a rifle. Why shouldn't people be able to buy them?

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Yes he tried buying an Ak-47.

Exactly, AK-47's should not be on the market.

I'm sure I know where this is going, but AK is just a rifle. Why shouldn't people be able to buy them?

I guess because most of the civilised world agrees that citizens should not be buying guns, unless specifically used for hunting. But an AK-47 does not seem like the first choice for a hunting rifle.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Why are people allowed to sell guns, but people are getting killed for selling cigs?

Well, studies have shown that cigarettes are deadly while everyone knows that guns don't kill people.

 

[bigkrev]

Yes he tried buying an Ak-47.

There is nothing illegal about owning an AK-47. The ones sold in this country are Semi-automatic.

 

[War Eagle]

I'm sure I know where this is going, but AK is just a rifle. Why shouldn't people be able to buy them?

Because they're scary looking with a scary name. /s

Really, they're not much different than any other semi auto rifle.

 

[reckless]

Similar to the gun show loophole which should be be closed but its not the gun he used in the shootings and he had no criminal history so even with background checks he would still be able to buy one.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Because they're scary looking with a scary name. /s

Really, they're not much different than any other semi auto rifle.

How can you still say that after what happened? After what happens every day?

Or will you reply with 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'?

Unless our attitude towards these weapons changes en masse, don't expect the policies to do.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm sure I know where this is going, but AK is just a rifle. Why shouldn't people be able to buy them?

There is nothing illegal about owning an AK-47. The ones sold in this country are Semi-automatic.

the only rifles that should be legal to own privately imo are for hunting purposes.
The Ak-47 is not just a rifle even semi automatic it can shoot a lot of rounds per minute.

 

[antipode]

And what would the check have come back with in this case?

I think that's complicated in this case. At some point his superiors recommended disciplinary action which possibly could have resulted in a dishonorable discharge. A dishonorable discharge would have appeared on a decent background check and barred him for gun ownership. A lesser-weight "bad conduct" discharge would also have raised alarms to a seller, though it might not have blocked him from owning a gun (at the federal regulation level.)

In this case though, he was given an "honorable discharge" with no explanation and even his lawyer was surprised by. Even the shooter may not have known that "honorable" was his final discharge status. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/militar...n-received-honorable-discharge-micah-johnson/

All of that, though, doesn't change the fact that the seller didn't run a background check to even find that out. The buyer could have had a dishonorable discharge or even been a civilian felon.

 

[diehard]

I guess because most of the civilised world agrees that citizens should not be buying guns, unless specifically used for hunting. But an AK-47 does not seem like the first choice for a hunting rifle.

the only rifles that should be legal to own privately imo are for hunting purposes.
The Ak-47 is not just a rifle even semi automatic it can shoot a lot of rounds per minute.

Saiga's are specifically marketed for hunting and civilian use.

It's also not an AK47 as it shoots the 5.45 caliber. Small facts that places like Mother Jones don't bother to research.

 

[War Eagle]

How can you still say that after what happened? After what happens every day?

Or will you reply with 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'?

Unless our attitude towards these weapons changes en masse, don't expect the policies to do.

I think what happened is absolutely horrendous. However, I do believe in the right for American citizens to bear arms, and I, myself use that right. I am 100% for increased gun control, federal background checks, mental health checks, closing loopholes, and mandatory written and range testing for anyone who wants to purchase a gun. I digress, though, unfortunately those would have not helped in this case.

 

[platocplx]

Over facebook? Shit, I bought a couple of shotguns at an estate auction last week. Showed up, got the winning, bid, handed over the cash and left. No record at all anywhere as to where to guns went.

Yep. I keep saying all illegal guns were legal at some point. Its always at some partof sale,basically private sales that make it so incredibly easy. its just way to fucking easy to get your hands on a gun.

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

the only rifles that should be legal to own privately imo are for hunting purposes.
The Ak-47 is not just a rifle even semi automatic it can shoot a lot of rounds per minute.

A lot of hunting weapons are semi automatic. I own bird guns that are semi-auto. My varmint gun is semi-auto. The .45 I carry when deer hunting in bear territory is technically semi-auto.

FFS, there needs to be an all out firearm education thread on gaf. So many people hand out opinions on them without knowing what they are actually saying.

 

[Cromwell]

Why are the Dems not hammering the NRA over this? Both of their totally dumbass excuses, "a good guy with a gun" and Islamic terror can't even fucking fly here.

 

[Sir Abacus]

If only there were an end user category for the Federal Firearms Licence and all purchases, even private purchases, had to transfer from one FFL number to another via a convenient website where one could confirm an individual's legal status to own a weapon and also transfer the weapon's ownership instantly.

 

[War Eagle]

Why are the Dems not hammering the NRA over this? Both of their totally dumbass excuses, "a good guy with a gun" and Islamic terror can't even fucking fly here.

I think because of the nation wide racial tensions involved, it's not a good idea to politicize this now. That's just my guess at least.

 

[Dan]

From a couple months ago: Inside The Secret Group For Gun Owners Banned From Facebook

It's a weird story where one of Facebook's directors of engineering is a gun advocate who keeps reinstating groups and pages that violate Facebook's policies while secretly advising them.

 

[Blueliner]

Gunbroker requires you go through a FFL, who does the background check on you. At least in my state. This should be a federal law.

Source: Bought two items from Gunbroker myself.

I apologize, I meant Armslist,

 

[Lead]

First of all, it wasn't an AK-47, it was a Saiga sporter based on the AK-74 platform.
There's nothing too exciting or special about that, you can get Saiga's on hunting licenses in Europe.

I do think it's a little crazy you can sell guns without background checks though, that needs to be fixed.

I can sell my guns privately here in Denmark, but you still have to run a background check and the firearm must be registered with the police within 14 days of receiving the weapon.

In fact I bought a 12 gauge for skeet not long ago on a facebook group as well.

 

[The Nexus of G]

I'm pro gun, but the sake of convenience is not a good enough reason to bypass what little background checks we have.

Yeah the problem with convenience is that what you save in the short term you end up paying more in the long run.