The Dark Knight Rises (Batman 3) - No Riddler

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effzee said:
While I agree with some points I think the intention was to show that he cared for Harvey to the point he wanted to talk him down and bring him back to who he was. That plus he was exhausted fighting all night and dealing with the Joker.
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Talk him down after your partner's family is safe. He was risking not only Gordon's family, but also Dent ruining himself even further.
 
And just quietly, if I was primed and anxious and had a gun to a kid's head and then heard Batman talking out of the dark and appear to my right, I might pull the trigger based on the surprise alone.
 
Scullibundo said:
And just quietly, if I was primed and anxious and had a gun to a kid's head and then heard Batman talking out of the dark and appear to my right, I might pull the trigger based on the surprise alone.
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Even allowing for the fact that he's exhausted and shit, why didn't Batman just go for Dent when he had the gun to his own head? He waited until he already flipped for himself and was flipping for the kid.
 
As far as fan posters go, I actually like this one, even if it has Bane nonchalantly standing atop a moving Tumbler.

winner.jpg
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I took those more as being emotionally driven moves. He was pissed going into the club, he was trying to be sympathetic approaching Dent. He's Batman, he can handle his shit either way.
 
SpeedingUptoStop said:
I took those more as being emotionally driven moves. He was pissed going into the club, he was trying to be sympathetic approaching Dent. He's Batman, he can handle his shit either way.
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Yeah, this. The entire movie is just Batman fucking up, but I sort of understood that given that he was sort of an emotional wreck at that point.

It isn't 100% believable, but it is understandable from that perspective.
 
Scullibundo said:
Gotta question Maroni, but you're a bit miffed about this Joker business? What better way than to announce to an entire club filled with distracting lighting that you're there than to dance with a bunch of henchman before sitting on the man's table? I mean, you would literally have to go out of your way in a club like that to be noticed. SMH.
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Are you serious with this one? He was clearly upset and pissed about Gordon's death. He wasn't going into the club to be stealthy and efficient; he wanted to hurt as many motherfuckers as he could to get to Maroni.
 
Blader5489 said:
Are you serious with this one? He was clearly upset and pissed about Gordon's death. He wasn't going into the club to be stealthy and efficient; he wanted to hurt as many motherfuckers as he could to get to Maroni.
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Not really. I realise why he did what he did, but that didn't stop it from looking ridiculous and ultimately boring. There are better ways to show his blinding anger than to have him robot-fight cronies in a trance club. Show me the bones being cracked.

But ultimately, give me the Batman whose skills were born out of the league of shadows. Not the flashy motherfucker who hawk-dives through Hong Kong skyscrapers to get one man. Because as cool looking as decisions like that are, they disservice the character.
 
Batman took the elevator up to where Harvey was holding them hostage. That place actually has better lighting then you would expect out of a closed construction site in the night. He saw that Dent was holding the boy hostage so he couldn't make too many sudden moves. Try to slowly move around and angle for Dent which would take too much time or try and talk him out of it. As Batman was about to be shot he remembers that Dent has to look up as he is going to catch the coin. Batman is shot but the suit protects him, Dent flips the coin one more time and bam! Remember Batman isn't as familiar with the Two Face character and his obsession with chance as we are.
 
apana said:
Batman took the elevator up to where Harvey was holding them hostage. That place actually has better lighting then you would expect out of a closed construction site in the night. He saw that Dent was holding the boy hostage so he couldn't make too many sudden moves. Try to slowly move around and angle for Dent which would take too much time or try and talk him out of it. As Batman was about to be shot he remembers that Dent has to look up as he is going to catch the coin. Batman is shot but the suit protects him, Dent flips the coin one more time and bam! Remember Batman isn't as familiar with the Two Face character and his obsession with chance as we are.
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What are you talking about? Batman surprises everybody there by walking out of the dark and talking to Harvey. Elevator? Gordon takes the stairs going up and down. Batman has grappling hooks and batarangs damn you. Also, let me stress this again: HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NINJA trained in how to move quietly and disarm threats before they see it coming - which he did many times in Begins. Dent would have been a cakewalk for Begins Bruce.

And don't forget, this is after he switches to what is supposed to be a lighter, more agile Bat-suit.
 
Scullibundo said:
What are you talking about? Batman surprises everybody there by walking out of the dark and talking to Harvey.
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Yeah but there is clearly a point at which the darkness disappears and he has to come into the light. Look at the high quality version of that scene.

Elevator? Gordon takes the stairs going up and down.
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Alright I concede this point.

Batman has grappling hooks and batarangs damn you.
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Yeah but you can't use them in this situation, too much noise. He has to get a clear assessment of what is going on. Which reminds me, a much bigger discrepancy was how he managed to grapple on to the Joker as he is falling down. As for the baatarangs, maybe he ran out of them.

Also, let me stress this again: HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A NINJA trained in how to move quietly and disarm threats before they see it coming - which he did many times in Begins. Dent would have been a cakewalk for Begins Bruce.

And don't forget, this is after he switches to what is supposed to be a lighter, more agile Bat-suit.
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Meh, it all depends on time, place, and scenario. He is a ninja, not a magician. We don't know when exactly he got there and what he saw as far as ability to move around. I need to see more of the site to make a proper determination. Also it is entirely possible he came up with the plan to tackle Dent when he flips the coin after he got shot. Honestly these movies kind of walk the edge between full fantasy Batman and realistic guy in a suit Batman. I don't pay too much attention to this stuff unless it is something seriously wrong like that water vaporizer thing they had.
 
I just want the third act of TDKR to feature Ra's Al Guhl coming up from behind Batman and thwacking him on the head, knocking him out cold, and saying, frustrated "FOR FUCK'S SAKES MAN, YOUR SURROUNDINGS!"
 
I just caught a glimpse of that debate and I already see so much wrong with it. Stop forgetting this is a movie. That part of the film is bigger than Batman the "ninja". Its about Gordon admitting he was wrong. Its about the fall of Dent. Its about Batman the character trying to reason with Dent face to face after he failed him so. It was about the emotional weight of Gordon possibly losing a part of his family.

If he had swooped in and just taken out Dent that scene wouldve fell flat. That scene wasnt about Batman being the hero. It couldnt have been. It wouldnt have made any sense.
 
Scullibundo said:
You should have just retorted with 'Bruce never did learn to mind his surroundings' and I would have been satisfied.
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Dammit.




Anyways the big stuff I have a problem with are Batman grappling onto the Joker, super sonar abilities, taking down swat teams, and water vaporizer. The ninja stuff is strange and half the time it can't really work but yeah I guess it is hard to figure out when Batman is a super ninja and when he isn't. Since we don't actually get to fully see the areas Batman is fighting in someone can always come up with an explanation for why he does or doesn't do something. Like I said before Nolan manages to have his cake and eat it too. It would be kind of interesting to have a film with just a guy in a suit fighting mob bosses and common criminals.
 
.GqueB. said:
I just caught a glimpse of that debate and I already see so much wrong with it. Stop forgetting this is a movie. That part of the film is bigger than Batman the "ninja". Its about Gordon admitting he was wrong. Its about the fall of Dent. Its about Batman the character trying to reason with Dent face to face after he failed him so. It was about the emotional weight of Gordon possibly losing a part of his family.

If he had swooped in and just taken out Dent that scene wouldve fell flat. That scene wasnt about Batman being the hero. It couldnt have been. It wouldnt have made any sense.
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No. This is not an excuse. You can still have the scene be all those things if you take the time and effort to consider how to write within the confines of the characters you have established and around the situation you have setup with Dent/Harvey. What we got was a scene that sacrificed plausibility within its' own narrative setup due to laziness.

Just like Batman having to take the fall and become the hunted is emotional and a great twist, yet falls short of being completely satisfying because it makes no fucking sense due to the sloppy circumstances they have written to catalyze that event.
 
Scullibundo said:
It's the thing that irks me the most going from Begins to TDK. Batman apparently forgot all his ninja training and is instead more prone to announce his arrival like he's Lindsay Lohan at a coke party.

Russian making a drug deal in a dark parking lot? Send the tumbler in to say IM HEEEEERE!

Gotta question Maroni, but you're a bit miffed about this Joker business? What better way than to announce to an entire club filled with distracting lighting that you're there than to dance with a bunch of henchman before sitting on the man's table? I mean, you would literally have to go out of your way in a club like that to be noticed. SMH.

Then yeah, the scene at the end with Dent is the most retarded. Harvey was going to do his stupid coin flipping shit anyway and be distracted by the coin until Batman showed up. All Batman did in this endlessly dark warehouse was get shot and then stop Dent the same way. Only this way Dent got killed and Batman got shot.

The motherfucker is supposed to be a ninja. He can infiltrate a warehouse with twenty guys carrying automatics who are alert to his presence and the woman he loves in their hands, but he can't infiltrate an empty, dank, run down scaffold of a building with Dent's focus on Gordon and his coin?

With what looks like a return to the ideas of the League of Shadows in TDKR, Batman better remember his goddamn training.
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Probably because Nolan sucks and doesn't seem to know shit about Batman.
 
I wouldn't say Batman forgot all of his ninja training from BB. He still does his Batman thing of appearing/disappearing out of nowhere a few times in TDK. Like when in the bank vault at the beginning of the film, or when he talks to Gordon and Dent on the rooftop. Or when he surprises Joker inside the penthouse.

But yeah, that end scene with Harvey goes against the tactics Batman employed in similar situations in BB. But it was an important dramatic scene, and a pretty good one at that (until Bats decides to tackle Harvey), so I forgive it.
 
The problem is Nolan's whole idea behind ninja skills and deception is never properly explained. We don't see Batman really learning deception tactics, Ra's Al Ghul just throws some exploding powder on the ground and a ninja appears out of the shadows. We don't have a good idea of what Batman can or cannot do. This is further complicated by the fact that those kinds of ninja disappearing acts don't actually work in complicated real life situations. It's mostly just an excuse for Batman appearing and disappearing whenever Nolan wants. You can never prove it one way or another what Batman should have done because someone can always come up with an explanation depending on how they want to interpret that scene and assumptions they want to make.

Also Batman is facing a different situation in The Dark Knight. He is having to take on the role of a military agent and law enforcer. He has to extract criminals from other nations, face down a heavily armed madman bent on destruction, rescue hostages etc. In Batman Begins he is often sweeping in on criminals from overhead and fighting league of shadow members who are fellow ninjas. In Dark Knight Rises I expect Batman to adopt new fighting tactics for Bane and his buddies.
 
WonkersTHEWatilla said:
I wouldn't say Batman forgot all of his ninja training from BB. He still does his Batman thing of appearing/disappearing out of nowhere a few times in TDK. Like when in the bank vault at the beginning of the film, or when he talks to Gordon and Dent on the rooftop. Or when he surprises Joker inside the penthouse.

.
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That's just him being goofy though...
 
.GqueB. said:
I just caught a glimpse of that debate and I already see so much wrong with it. Stop forgetting this is a movie. That part of the film is bigger than Batman the "ninja". Its about Gordon admitting he was wrong. Its about the fall of Dent. Its about Batman the character trying to reason with Dent face to face after he failed him so. It was about the emotional weight of Gordon possibly losing a part of his family.

If he had swooped in and just taken out Dent that scene wouldve fell flat. That scene wasnt about Batman being the hero. It couldnt have been. It wouldnt have made any sense.
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Yeah we have to remember that Joker was goading Batman into believing Dent and ultimately Gotham could be incorrigibly corrupted given enough of a push. Batman/Bruce isn't some infallible entity, he considered Dent one of his few allies and his eventual way out; he would pass the torch and could effectively retire the burden of the cowl. Bruce approaches Two-Face diplomatically - encumbered with the hopelessness of losing Rachel - willing to reason and bring Dent back to his senses. Sure he could of stealthily curbstomped him, hopefully avoiding Dent accidently blowing the kids head off and slapping a pair of cuffs on him. But he was playing towards a bigger game, proving Joker was wrong, and that his friend was not that far gone.
 
That poster is hideous. Thomas Wayne and those damn hands appearing out of young Bruce's head! Egads!
 
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