The Faceless Master
Member
well, the difference is you have an agenda in defending some 30fps games...Speevy said:
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The FPS debate--
- Thread starter Matlock
- Start date
For FPS, it depends on if it's a real battle type FPS ala Unreal Tournament, or if the focus is single player. If it's single player, 30fps is pretty acceptable. If it's like UT in design and focus, then 60fps is a fucking must. The difference is pretty huge and noticeable for that type of gameplay.
I'm also with drohne: When a racing game isn't 60fps, I fucking notice it. And it pisses me off. Same with fighting. It doesn't make a game bad by any means, but it is distracting.
I'm also with drohne: When a racing game isn't 60fps, I fucking notice it. And it pisses me off. Same with fighting. It doesn't make a game bad by any means, but it is distracting.
Sooo...you're saying that Western developers are pushing boundaries because they are able to use more powerful hardware?!
Japanese developers DID stick mostly to PS2 for a number of reasons...and they pushed it hard. That's my point. They maximized the potential of the platform they were using.
When Japanese developers got ahold of more powerful technology (XBOX), they maximized it there as well. A lot of the best looking games on THAT system are Japanese (Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Orta, Wreckless, JSRF, Outrun 2, etc.).
They delivered 60 fps while also maximizing the potential of their platforms.
You can't go comparing the likes of a very recent PC game to a PS2 game, now can you? I mean, something like Half-Life 2 is technically doing a lot of advanced things...but those are things bought by using more powerful hardware. A game like MGS3 is MUCH more impressive to me than Half-Life 2 was simply because it was running on much older hardware and had fewer problems during play.
The Faceless Master
Member
RE: OutRun 2 .. isn't Sumo Digital (the guys who ported the game) a european dev?dark10x said:
They didn't code the original version, though, and that ran on XBOX arcade hardware.The Faceless Master said:
In fact, the port had problems with loading IMO. There was simply too much of it. The whole UI felt unpolished (framerate was lower than the actual game) and the loading issue.
The graphics engine was not their work. They simply ported it over.
Afro Thunder
Member
Just a quick question: There is a 60FPS without sacrifices made in graphic fidelity?
Well its obvious to me the gap in visual fidelity between 30fps and 60fps isn't big at all, so 60fps I guess. Without some kind of reference point its rather useless though. There is obviously a hit taken for a higher framerate on system resources but without knowing what that is.... :/
krypt0nian
Banned
GashPrex said:
I just posted this in the GoW thread. Totally 30fps with all the bells and whistles.
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
Like others said depending on genre (racing, first person, fighting) 30 fps can be a lot less tolerable than others. I dont mind lower framerate so much in a 3rd person action game with a large environment like GTA or what have you.
What I dont get are those that seem to think there's no real visual benefit to 60fps worth sacrificing some extra bells and whistles. Thats crazy. Realism and immersion in games can be directly related to how natural the actual motion and action is on screen as much as the raw fidelity and detail. High framerate accentuates action and movement more than any special effect can. 60fps is a very natural clip to the eye which makes it visually pleasing to see games move at that speed or above, no matter what the genre.
What I dont get are those that seem to think there's no real visual benefit to 60fps worth sacrificing some extra bells and whistles. Thats crazy. Realism and immersion in games can be directly related to how natural the actual motion and action is on screen as much as the raw fidelity and detail. High framerate accentuates action and movement more than any special effect can. 60fps is a very natural clip to the eye which makes it visually pleasing to see games move at that speed or above, no matter what the genre.
The question is inherently stupid. It tries to separate fps from 'graphics fidelity' which is impossible.
The fact of the matter is that 60 fps is as much about having a prettier game as having normal mapped nose hair is. If you want to win a screenshot war then fps doesn't matter, otherwise, it's as integral a part of 'graphics fidelity' as any effect you could care to name.
So the question posed is akin to asking: Would you prefer a game have normal mapping or self shadowing?
The fact of the matter is that 60 fps is as much about having a prettier game as having normal mapped nose hair is. If you want to win a screenshot war then fps doesn't matter, otherwise, it's as integral a part of 'graphics fidelity' as any effect you could care to name.
So the question posed is akin to asking: Would you prefer a game have normal mapping or self shadowing?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Yo. Even if we then force the game into high resolution with great anti-aliasing, lighting, texturing, and a few other whizbang effects it would still be able to easily outdo this generation's game's polygonally, so go for it.Matlock said:
To all you companies out there looking to me for advice, remember that this would necessitate less manpower being used for modeling! And for those of you developing non-PS3 games, it would save on disc space, too.
cool idea for GA/GAF:
get some scientist and a tech expert to do one of those interviews on the board about frames per second. have like a roundtable discussion, run tests, ask questsions, lets get to the bottom of all this. get random, non-gaming people to play 60fps and 30fps racing games. could be fun and if done well enough could get a lot of publicity. it would take a lot of time though which i doubt anyone has
get some scientist and a tech expert to do one of those interviews on the board about frames per second. have like a roundtable discussion, run tests, ask questsions, lets get to the bottom of all this. get random, non-gaming people to play 60fps and 30fps racing games. could be fun and if done well enough could get a lot of publicity. it would take a lot of time though which i doubt anyone has
Depends on the game really,
For racing and fighting games I'd prefer 60fps with sacrifices to detail, everything else, 30fps is fine. It doesn't particularly matter that much to me, especially since graphical fidelity may, or may not be a requirement for creating a plausible gameworld.
I hope post processed motion blur helps make things a little smoother overall next-gen though. All I really ask is more consistant frame-rates whatever they be, if sacrifices have to be made: make them instead of bringing the whole experience (visuals, framerate and all) down a notch in an attempt to do the impossible (or more likely uneconomical).
For racing and fighting games I'd prefer 60fps with sacrifices to detail, everything else, 30fps is fine. It doesn't particularly matter that much to me, especially since graphical fidelity may, or may not be a requirement for creating a plausible gameworld.
I hope post processed motion blur helps make things a little smoother overall next-gen though. All I really ask is more consistant frame-rates whatever they be, if sacrifices have to be made: make them instead of bringing the whole experience (visuals, framerate and all) down a notch in an attempt to do the impossible (or more likely uneconomical).
I prefer 60fps, every fighting, racing, sport and platformers should be 60fps.
And IMO, a big part of the most impressive games this gen were targeting a steady 60fps (void RE4 and MGS3)..
GT4
Ninja Gaiden
God of War
Jak
Ratchet
Burnout3/revenge
DOA/VF/Tekken
As well as others (that were impressive when they came out) like SSX3, DMC3, TMB, Panzer Dragoon XB, Downhill Domination etc.
And IMO, a big part of the most impressive games this gen were targeting a steady 60fps (void RE4 and MGS3)..
GT4
Ninja Gaiden
God of War
Jak
Ratchet
Burnout3/revenge
DOA/VF/Tekken
As well as others (that were impressive when they came out) like SSX3, DMC3, TMB, Panzer Dragoon XB, Downhill Domination etc.
If it ran at a constant 60fps it would probably be heralded as one of the best looking PS2 games out there.Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
60 or nothing
krypt0nian
Banned
Borys said:
Way to idiot-up a thread.
KingJ2002
Member
Amir0x said:
definitely... with fighting games... if it's not locked at 60... you notice the bumps and it fucks up your timing because you try to adjust... same goes with racers.
this thread seems to be subliminally talking about gears of war... in which i say... get fluid animation and get it in at 60fps... the game already looks great... the problem i see is with the animation and the framerate.
when I read that interview it seems like they were aiming low with the framerate.
considering that mgs 4 looked that good at 60fps... gow better be 60fps as well.... aim high epic!
SolidSnakex
Member
Easily 60fps. Animation will be more important than ever next gen. Having more realistic models with jerky animation isn't going to cut it. And anything other than 60fps is unacceptable for racing games next gen. I'm not bothering with any racing game that's not at that framerate next gen.
Sea-Dragon
Member
Spoiled little bitches. I remember playing the original Quake at 11 FPS on my AMD K5 100 and thinking it was just fine. Recently I completed Chronicles of Riddick on my 9800 pro at (supposedly an "unplayable frame rate" based on the snotty-assed review ) 26.4 FPS and noticed nothing problematic.
So... 30 FPS? Sounds good. I don't play the multiplayer component of these games, though, so if you're worried that LimpBizCcut141 might get an extra frag on you from the lag, it might not apply to you.
So... 30 FPS? Sounds good. I don't play the multiplayer component of these games, though, so if you're worried that LimpBizCcut141 might get an extra frag on you from the lag, it might not apply to you.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
60 fps always looks better for me. The image seems clearer and the action feels smoother. Imagine what re4 or mg3 would have been like if they were running at 60 fps.