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[NastyPasty]

Do they really think they won that generation?

Peter Moore was at Microsoft from 2003 to 2007. The Xbox 360 launched at the end of 2005. I would argue that he left the console in a winning position even if that advantage was squandered after he left.

One of the things with XBox since is it's incredibly insular, and I think that has led to it's downfall. While there is "diversity" amongst the leadership, it's superficial - they're all American MBA types. You couldn't imagine a scouse outsider having that kind of influential role now, whatever their CV.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Peter Moore seemed to really get console gaming.
But honestly I think gaming is just a terrible fit for Microsoft. It's not a creative company.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Peter Moore seemed to really get console gaming.
But honestly I think gaming is just a terrible fit for Microsoft. It's not a creative company.

Indeed, it worked when passionate gamers ran Xbox. As soon as the suits took over in 2008 it was over.

 

[RCX]

They took an early lead and narrowly lost the overall race.

"Well done"

 

[PatientGamer]

Sounds like you're the one doing the revisionism. Xbox 360 was ahead of the PS3 the vast majority of that generation. PS3 finally overtook Xbox just a few months before the PS4 and Xbox One came out.

Launch aligned sales has the PS3 well ahead of the X360. I don't recall a single year the X360 outsold the PS3 in worldwide sales.

X360 trounced PS3 in US, not discounting that - but that was the only market it won in. It lost heavily everywhere else.

and that was their best ever performance vs. Sony's worst ever in the industry. Just went downhill for them since then.

 

[mckmas8808]

Indeed, it worked when passionate gamers ran Xbox. As soon as the suits took over in 2008 it was over.

Perfectly said.

 

[MisterXDTV]

They took an early lead and narrowly lost the overall race.

"Well done"

They got an early lead just because they chose to stick with Standard DVDs in an HD world.... LOL

Once PS3 Slim released at a good price, it was already over....

 

[Det]

For the Xbox to tie the PlayStation for a generation, they needed to:

Release a "ticking time bomb" console with a limited shelf life, poorly designed, and riddled with problems because they had to release it a year early. All of this was supported by Microsoft's "infinite cash flow" that guaranteed a replacement for a new console once the problem could no longer be hidden.

And yes, Microsoft knew:


A highly accelerated life test (HALT) is a stress testing methodology for enhancing product reliability in which prototypes are stressed to a much higher degree than expected from actual use in order to identify weaknesses in the design or manufacture of the produc

Highly accelerated life test - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The purpose of accelerated life testing (ALT test) is to induce field failure in the laboratory at a much faster rate by providing a harsher, but nonetheless representative, environment. In such a test, the product is expected to fail in the lab just as it would have failed in the field—but in much less time.The main objective of an accelerated test is either of the following:

Reliability engineering - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not only did Microsoft know, but I guarantee they received authorization from the CEO at the time to go ahead with the Xbox 360 knowing about the high defect rate.

All this to try to match the PlayStation and ultimately end up losing both in hardware sales and in quality and quantity of games.
I don't see how the Xbox guys still consider it a victory...

- They needed Sony to do a bunch of crazy shit (PS3)

- A desperate launch to arrive a year before the competitor on the market and therefore a defective product

It was never about skill, it was always about luck.

The Xbox 360 was never excellence, it was always the norm, the bare minimum; what Sony has always done (not counting the PS3 in the early half of its lifespan).

 

[scydrex]

With the RROD fiasco. All my friends who played on 360 had like 3 or 4 at least. When one gave the RROD they repair it, sold it and brought a new one.
Edit: Also 1.15 billions? God damn! what MS won with that money spent on the RROD issue.

 

[DonJimbo]

What an amazing gen it was loved the 360 so much

 

[Bond007]

They didnt win. Had a great head start and ultimately lost it.
Cool story though. I enjoyed my 360 in the early years and then later with a few kinnect games.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

For the Xbox to tie the PlayStation for a generation, they needed to:

Release a "ticking time bomb" console with a limited shelf life, poorly designed, and riddled with problems because they had to release it a year early. All of this was supported by Microsoft's "infinite cash flow" that guaranteed a replacement for a new console once the problem could no longer be hidden.

And yes, Microsoft knew:


A highly accelerated life test (HALT) is a stress testing methodology for enhancing product reliability in which prototypes are stressed to a much higher degree than expected from actual use in order to identify weaknesses in the design or manufacture of the produc

Highly accelerated life test - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The purpose of accelerated life testing (ALT test) is to induce field failure in the laboratory at a much faster rate by providing a harsher, but nonetheless representative, environment. In such a test, the product is expected to fail in the lab just as it would have failed in the field—but in much less time.The main objective of an accelerated test is either of the following:

Reliability engineering - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not only did Microsoft know, but I guarantee they received authorization from the CEO at the time to go ahead with the Xbox 360 knowing about the high defect rate.

All this to try to match the PlayStation and ultimately end up losing both in hardware sales and in quality and quantity of games.
I don't see how the Xbox guys still consider it a victory...

- They needed Sony to do a bunch of crazy shit (PS3)

- A desperate launch to arrive a year before the competitor on the market and therefore a defective product

It was never about skill, it was always about luck.

The Xbox 360 was never excellence, it was always the norm, the bare minimum; what Sony has always done (not counting the PS3 in the early half of its lifespan).

He says while earning achivements, talking in PARTY chat, and using a xbox style "dualsense" controller.

You think they knew the RROD beforehand? It was because of bumpgate, an issue at TSMC, regarding faulty BGA underfill. Happened to Nvidia GPU's, laptops, and PS3s fats.
Also, lol, the 360 was never excellence, just the bare minimum? which is why sony compleley copied it with PS4, a complete controller overhaul made more friendly for shooters, paid online services, a simple hardware design, made for ease of devlopment, .....There's being a fanboy, and then there is this.
"Release a "ticking time bomb" console with a limited shelf life, poorly designed, and riddled with problems because they had to release it a year early. All of this was supported by Microsoft's "infinite cash flow" that guaranteed a replacement for a new console once the problem could no longer be hidden."

What do you call the PS3 fat then? The launch models will all die due to a faulty GPU. Just like the early Xbox 360s.


The 360 set the standard for modern consoles. Which is why Sony isn't using the CELL 3 right now.

 

[Azelover]

Peter Moore was at Microsoft from 2003 to 2007. The Xbox 360 launched at the end of 2005. I would argue that he left the console in a winning position even if that advantage was squandered after he left.

One of the things with XBox since is it's incredibly insular, and I think that has led to it's downfall. While there is "diversity" amongst the leadership, it's superficial - they're all American MBA types. You couldn't imagine a scouse outsider having that kind of influential role now, whatever their CV.

I agree and also, they focused too much on PR. They made too many promises and under delivered, which is the opposite of what you're supposed to do.

Just go back to E3 2009 for a minute. All they cared about was making a good headline for the press. It didn't matter that they faked everything, and that it wasn't going to be delivered. They overlooked all of that, well into the Xbox One generation.

 

[Det]

He says while earning achivements, talking in PARTY chat, and using a xbox style "dualsense" controller.

You think they knew the RROD beforehand? It was because of bumpgate, an issue at TSMC, regarding faulty BGA underfill. Happened to Nvidia GPU's, laptops, and PS3s fats.
Also, lol, the 360 was never excellence, just the bare minimum? which is why sony compleley copied it with PS4, a complete controller overhaul made more friendly for shooters, paid online services, a simple hardware design, made for ease of devlopment, .....There's being a fanboy, and then there is this.
"Release a "ticking time bomb" console with a limited shelf life, poorly designed, and riddled with problems because they had to release it a year early. All of this was supported by Microsoft's "infinite cash flow" that guaranteed a replacement for a new console once the problem could no longer be hidden."

What do you call the PS3 fat then? The launch models will all die due to a faulty GPU. Just like the early Xbox 360s.


The 360 set the standard for modern consoles. Which is why Sony isn't using the CELL 3 right now.

"Sony too"

As far as anyone knows, the PS3's failure rate is typical for electronics.

And you're so clueless about the PS3's problem. Today, no one knows if it's the solder or the tantalum capacitors.

When someone heats up the PS3's CPU and GPU, the tantalum capacitors "reset" and work for a while longer.

The Xbox 360 would overheat and the solder would melt, so much so that one of the mods was to use rubber to press the chips and prevent them from detaching from the board.

The problems with the PS3 and Xbox 360 are completely different, both in terms of quantity and type of problem.

=================================================================

Regarding MS "dictating the market" with the Xbox 360, it's just another Xbox fanboy fantasy.

The PS3 and Xbox 360 CPUs are Power PCs

PS3 audio is better than Xbox One and PS4.
PS5 audio is inspired by a CELL core.
Cell can be seen as a precursor to GPU computing

what did the xbox 360 set for the future? be abandoned and become irrelevant?

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

"Sony too"

As far as anyone knows, the PS3's failure rate is typical for electronics.

And you're so clueless about the PS3's problem. Today, no one knows if it's the solder or the tantalum capacitors.

When someone heats up the PS3's CPU and GPU, the tantalum capacitors "reset" and work for a while longer.

The Xbox 360 would overheat and the solder would melt, so much so that one of the mods was to use rubber to press the chips and prevent them from detaching from the board.

The problems with the PS3 and Xbox 360 are completely different, both in terms of quantity and type of problem.

=================================================================

Regarding MS "dictating the market" with the Xbox 360, it's just another Xbox fanboy fantasy.

The PS3 and Xbox 360 CPUs are Power PCs

PS3 audio is better than Xbox One and PS4.
PS5 audio is inspired by a CELL core.
Cell can be seen as a precursor to GPU computing

what did the xbox 360 set for the future? be abandoned and become irrelevant?

Uh yes, people do know, or else there wouldnt be PS3 frankensteins, where the GPU is swapped for a 40nm or 65nm RSX, ( a service Sony did in 2011 and 2012 themselves). And no the solder would not melt, the BGA underfill under the GPU would crack when heated and cooled, the reason? Faulty BGA underfill from TSMC. The same reason for the YLOD and RROD on the 360 and PS3, faulty BGA underfill. Obese brazilan men need to get their facts straight.


"And you're so clueless about the PS3's problem. Today, no one knows if it's the solder or the tantalum capacitors.

When someone heats up the PS3's CPU and GPU, the tantalum capacitors "reset" and work for a while longer."


I literally linked you a video on discussing the PS3's reason for YLOD. It was the BGA underfill under the GPU's, and the tonkin caps were an issue, but not the main cause.




Here's a guy GPU swapping a xenon 360. Proving the issue is the BGA underfill.

 

[m14]

The PS3 and Xbox 360 CPUs are Power PCs

While the 360 had a Power PC CPU, it was much more developer friendly, hence why third party ports on the 360 were almost always superior to the PS3 offerings. Also note that MS was the first to use an x86 processor (with the Original Xbox) in a console, something which is now standard for Sony systems. Xbox's humbling of Sony in the seventh generation is a major reason why they were forced to be more mindful towards third party developers.

what did the xbox 360 set for the future? be abandoned and become irrelevant?

It set the template for the modern consoles of today. Xbox Live, XBLA, developer friendly hardware, bulkier controllers, achievements. Every time you turn on your PS5 you are enjoying the many benefits that were introduced and / or standardised by Xbox.

It's also a bit silly to call the 360 irrelevant when many of its best games remain available to play on more modern Xbox hardware, while the PS3 has been truly abandoned by Sony.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

While the 360 had a Power PC CPU, it was much more developer friendly, hence why third party ports on the 360 were almost always superior to the PS3 offerings. Also note that MS was the first to use an x86 processor (with the Original Xbox) in a console, something which is now standard for Sony systems. Xbox's humbling of Sony in the seventh generation is a major reason why they were forced to be more mindful towards third party developers.


It set the template for the modern consoles of today. Xbox Live, XBLA, developer friendly hardware, bulkier controllers, achievements. Every time you turn on your PS5 you are enjoying the many benefits that were introduced and / or standardised by Xbox.

It's also a bit silly to call the 360 irrelevant when many of its best games remain available to play on more modern Xbox hardware, while the PS3 has been truly abandoned by Sony.

Lmfao, this dude is so clueless. Sony had similar issues in the PS2 era, with the complicated emotion engine chip, but because of Sony's deathgrip on the console market, dev's just stuck it out, and sometimes made games with special effects that ports to the Xbox or GC didnt get, Like GTA SA's orange hue, Vice city, GTA 3, etc, Silent hill 2 etc. In the 7th gen, devs said fuck all that and just opted for the easier system to code for, which was the 360. Which is why Cerny moved the PS4 to x86. That's why we don't have backwards compat past the PS4 on the PS5. Sony wants to remaster those old games and re-sell you them. They've been doing this since 2009 when they took out PS2 BC in the slim PS3. Dropping PS3 "HD collections".

 

[Quantum253]

This was a monumental moment back in the day.

Wild there's only been 1 major GTA released since then too

 

[Det]

While the 360 had a Power PC CPU, it was much more developer friendly, hence why third party ports on the 360 were almost always superior to the PS3 offerings. Also note that MS was the first to use an x86 processor (with the Original Xbox) in a console, something which is now standard for Sony systems. Xbox's humbling of Sony in the seventh generation is a major reason why they were forced to be more mindful towards third party developers.


It set the template for the modern consoles of today. Xbox Live, XBLA, developer friendly hardware, bulkier controllers, achievements. Every time you turn on your PS5 you are enjoying the many benefits that were introduced and / or standardised by Xbox.

It's also a bit silly to call the 360 irrelevant when many of its best games remain available to play on more modern Xbox hardware, while the PS3 has been truly abandoned by Sony.

The PlayStation 1 was also a "developer-friendly CPU"
The PS1 was already developer-focused.

The best the Xbox 360 did was imitate Sony's PS1, but add the hardware issues of 3RLDs.

I turn on my PS5 and I have no advertising banners

 

[hououinkyouma00]

I still find it funny how people still think the Xbox 360 won versus being dead last that generation.

They took an early lead and narrowly lost the overall race.

"Well done"

They got an early lead just because they chose to stick with Standard DVDs in an HD world.... LOL

Once PS3 Slim released at a good price, it was already over....

Xbox got an early lead because they had a great unveiling and released on time while Sony fucked up their unveiling and had to push their console back to 2006 as well as pricing (which is what I presume you were getting at with your Standard vs HD DVD comment) and games (early 360 had better games overall then PS3).

Sony finally got their console to a comparable price to Xbox and hit it out of the park with their marketing and games with the Slim.

 

[Det]

Uh yes, people do know, or else there wouldnt be PS3 frankensteins, where the GPU is swapped for a 40nm or 65nm RSX, ( a service Sony did in 2011 and 2012 themselves). And no the solder would not melt, the BGA underfill under the GPU would crack when heated and cooled, the reason? Faulty BGA underfill from TSMC. The same reason for the YLOD and RROD on the 360 and PS3, faulty BGA underfill. Obese brazilan men need to get their facts straight.

So shouldn't Sony have used a smaller lithography that produces less heat and costs less in PS3 revisions?

And the same crazy rhetoric that the PS5 is garbage because it had more hardware revisions than the Xbox SX?

it's not worth the engineering expense to revise hardware that doesn't sell.

Again, "Sony too." Repeating the same nonsense won't become reality. The official hardware problem is Microsoft's, one of the Xbox's biggest exclusives.

I literally linked you a video on discussing the PS3's reason for YLOD. It was the BGA underfill under the GPU's, and the tonkin caps were an issue, but not the main cause.




Here's a guy GPU swapping a xenon 360. Proving the issue is the BGA underfill.

First, anyone can discuss anything on YouTube, much less a video of the Xbox 360 having a problem is an indication that the same problem is on the PS3.
Again, you Xbox fanboys live with this "Sony Too" obsession.
The Xbox 360 was a ticking time bomb, while the PS3 had defects like any electronic device.

Somehow, Microsoft had to publicly admit a defect and spend billions of dollars to fix it.
But somehow, Sony didn't need any of that, and nothing happened to Sony?

Could it be because PlayStation buyers are all fanatics, and they stayed quiet without a lawsuit from the FTC?

 

[MisterXDTV]

I still find it funny how people still think the Xbox 360 won versus being dead last that generation.



Xbox got an early lead because they had a great unveiling and released on time while Sony fucked up their unveiling and had to push their console back to 2006 as well as pricing (which is what I presume you were getting at with your Standard vs HD DVD comment) and games (early 360 had better games overall then PS3).

Sony finally got their console to a comparable price to Xbox and hit it out of the park with their marketing and games with the Slim.

The reason the price was so high for PS3 is that it had a Blu-ray drive built-in instead of a DVD drive from 1998

Stand-alone Blu-Ray players were priced at $1000 when PS3 released!

Add to that full hardware backwards compatibility with PS2 and you have your answer!

 

[Sgt.Asher]

Title should be renamed "When Xbox killed all momentum for the brands future."