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[ROMhack]

Man, I'm starting to feel like I hate everything about the current job market.

I got another rejection this morning after what I felt was a good interview. It feels like there's very little I can do on my side despite having 2 years experience in my chosen field.

This is in London btw. Seriously, fuck this miserable place. People seem dead inside and I think the fact I'm not might be rubbing people up the wrong way.

Anyone else?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Gainfully employed, but I'm looking to get into agriculture or an adjacent skilled trade that I can use for agriculture. My condolences. Looking for a job is soul-sucking.

 

[keraj37]

I must be grateful to God cos as a programmer I never had issue finding job, but indeed the job market especially in UK (brexit etc) may be hard to swallow.

I remember going for interview to London two times and that place seemed to me like a mental hospital (yep, during my short time there I met more crazy people than in the rest of my life)
And the commute there is just no, no - leave that place mate. Not to mention the rent prices.....

 

[Geki-D]

Quit going to interviews in flip flops.

 

[AlteredForms]

London is a meat processing plant when it comes to applicants applying for their dream jobs. What field are you working in OP?

 

[Tako Ou]

as a programmer I never had issue finding job

Same for me, but in France.

 

[crowbrow]

Move to Aruba and become a diving instructor. I met a guy who did that after trying to find a job in banking for years. One of the happiest people I've ever met.

 

[Sub_Level]

Same for me, but in France.

You are extra blessed because France unemployment is about 8% as opposed to the US and UK which are around 3%.

 

[manfestival]

Move to Aruba and become a diving instructor. I met a guy who did that after trying to find a job in banking for years. One of the happiest people I've ever met.

Sounds like the guy is fortunate to have found his passion and made the right move. I dropped my job and went traveling but I could not find a job that truly accommodated that... otherwise I would probably be in some random country right now

 

[ROMhack]

I must be grateful to God cos as a programmer I never had issue finding job, but indeed the job market especially in UK (brexit etc) may be hard to swallow.

I remember going for interview to London two times and that place seemed to me like a mental hospital (yep, during my short time there I met more crazy people than in the rest of my life)
And the commute there is just no, no - leave that place mate. Not to mention the rent prices.....

Yeah, all my interviews in London have been ineffectual and it's been that way for several years. There's more jobs here but it seems the expectations are sky high.

If you're a programmer then I'd definitely steer clear of London. You can make a good wage and have a better life elsewhere.

London is a meat processing plant when it comes to applicants applying for their dream jobs. What field are you working in OP?

Marketing, broadly. I've worked in several marketing positions, as well as writing freelance copy for businesses.

 

[I_D]

You'd be surprised by how much a good resume can change your luck.
At my previous place of employment, part of my job was to interview and hire new employees. My boss told me, straight-up, "If the resume looks like shit, don't even bother calling them."

And it was incredible how many people have no idea how to make a good resume. It's more than just your information; graphic-design is also a massive part of it.
If you feel comfortable doing so, PM me your resume and I can probably help you out.

And as corny as it sounds, practice your interview skills. Look up commonly-asked questions in your field, and make sure you're able to answer them comfortably without sounding like a robot.

 

[AlteredForms]

Marketing, broadly. I've worked in several marketing positions, as well as writing freelance copy for businesses.

Marketing has been compared to the stock exchange in my experience, in that there are times when the position is valuable, and other times somebody is throwing promotional materials together between lunch breaks.

 

[Ichabod]

I'm in the US but I can relate. I dropped the field I got my first degree in (business marketing), went medical, and never looked back. Nursing is a field with ridiculous flexibility, good pay, and job security for days. Even if you dont see yourself working at the bedside, there are a shit ton of non-clinical positions out there. I can literally leave my job this afternoon and have a litany of recruiters fighting over themselves to snatch me up by nightfall.

 

[danielberg]

Man, I'm starting to feel like I hate everything about the current job market.

I got another rejection this morning after what I felt was a good interview. It feels like there's very little I can do on my side despite having 2 years experience in my chosen field.

This is in London btw. Seriously, fuck this miserable place. People seem dead inside and I think the fact I'm not might be rubbing people up the wrong way.

Anyone else?

if you have everything in order its just a numbers game and the challenge is to not get discouraged.

 

[J-Roderton]

Yup. It's a nightmare.

 

[ROMhack]

You'd be surprised by how much a good resume can change your luck.
At my previous place of employment, part of my job was to interview and hire new employees. My boss told me, straight-up, "If the resume looks like shit, don't even bother calling them."

And it was incredible how many people have no idea how to make a good resume. It's more than just your information; graphic-design is also a massive part of it.
If you feel comfortable doing so, PM me your resume and I can probably help you out.

And as corny as it sounds, practice your interview skills. Look up commonly-asked questions in your field, and make sure you're able to answer them comfortably without sounding like a robot.

Thanks. I might take you up on that offer - just let me take out my personal information first.

 

[ROMhack]

if you have everything in order its just a numbers game and the challenge is to not get discouraged.

Thanks, I wouldn't say I'm discouraged but it does feel that I've bitten off a bit more than I can chew.

I'm very much weighing my options to leave as I reckon I could make my life a lot easier being in a less competitive area.

 

[I_D]

Thanks. I might take you up on that offer - just let me take out my personal information first.

I won't call or email you, I promise.

Formatting of personal information is just as important as everything else.

 

[Breakage]

Insincere – that's the word I would use to describe the modern job hunting process. The whole thing is steeped in insincerity, especially when it comes to London's job market.

I suppose it has a lot to do with prevailing cultural values and attitudes. I also think the pernicious influence of modern psychology has helped to ramp up the amount of bs a person has to go through to even secure an entry-level job.
Most of the common interview questions (especially those “Tell me about a time when...” competency questions) are utterly pointless in the age of the Internet.
Jobseekers are often told to just be themselves, yet all the advice from job hunting books and websites encourage people to describe themselves using a limited set of words and phrases (e.g. team player, good communicator, passionate, well organised, empathetic, uses initiative) – because that's what the employer wants to hear. So people end up struggling to squeeze themselves into a limited set of buzzwords that employers supposedly like until they eventually find themselves talking in a way that feels unnatural.

I've stopped taking it seriously these days. Making a lot of effort only to be rejected with a vague email gets to you after a while. I now treat job hunting like a phisher treats phishing: wide reach with minimal effort. I find this approach takes the sting out of getting repeatedly rejected.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Job market sucks. Good luck. Hopefully you get a job and then you can instead complain about the job itself

 

[Alfen Dave]

Rejection.
Lack of experience.
Failed interviews.

Is this my dating life?

 

[48086]

Start your own business.

 

[ROMhack]

Insincere – that's the word I would use to describe the modern job hunting process. The whole thing is steeped in insincerity, especially when it comes to London's job market.

I suppose it has a lot to do with prevailing cultural values and attitudes. I also think the pernicious influence of modern psychology has helped to ramp up the amount of bs a person has to go through to even secure an entry-level job.
Most of the common interview questions (especially those “Tell me about a time when...” competency questions) are utterly pointless in the age of the Internet.
Jobseekers are often told to just be themselves, yet all the advice from job hunting books and websites encourage people to describe themselves using a limited set of words and phrases (e.g. team player, good communicator, passionate, well organised, empathetic, uses initiative) – because that's what the employer wants to hear. So people end up struggling to squeeze themselves into a limited set of buzzwords that employers supposedly like until they eventually find themselves talking in a way that feels unnatural.

I've stopped taking it seriously these days. Making a lot of effort only to be rejected with a vague email gets to you after a while. I now treat job hunting like a phisher treats phishing: wide reach with minimal effort. I find this approach takes the sting out of getting repeatedly rejected.

Yep. I'm beginning to hate living here just because of the amount hoops you have to jump through to get to the interview stage.

This was the last role I got rejected for:

- CV/Cover letter application.
- Phone interview.
- 2 hour writing assessment.
- In-person interview.
- Rejected (still waiting for feedback).

I think Americans have it tougher but London businesses are adopting similar methods.

I might just move back to the Midlands. My last job was one in-person interview. Nobody does that here.

 

[Alfen Dave]

Start your own business.

Can`t get a job?
JUST start your own business.

Although, I know you're kidding but some people see this a serious ''easyfix'' alternative.

 

[ROMhack]

Start your own business.

It's only viable if you've spent enough time in a particular industry, built up clients and have capital to back you.

It's my long-term goal but nowhere near feasible right now.

 

[48086]

Can`t get a job?
JUST start your own business.

Although, I know you're kidding but some people see this a serious ''easyfix'' alternative.

I'm actually not kidding. If the OP has a few years in marketing he could start doing freelance work. Depending on where he lives, he could also start a manual labor business doing some like lawn mowing, window washing etc. etc. Also, it's definitely not an "easyfix" alternative but it is an alternative that's possible with a lot of hard work.

It's only viable if you've spent enough time in a particular industry, built up clients and have capital to back you.

It's my long-term goal but nowhere near feasible right now.

Are you talking in terms of marketing? If so, with all due respect, you're completely wrong!

 

[Geki-D]

That was the last role I applied for:

- CV/Cover letter application.
- Phone interview.
- 2 hour writing assessment.
- In-person interview.
- Rejected (still waiting for feedback).

Jesus. Once I had an interview where I learned that they wanted me to do another one later on with someone else. I just went to another place, did a single interview and got the job.

Yeah, you may want to move. That's just insane. I know a guy who's a programmer working in Altrincham for a company that makes those interactive ad screens. He gets the big bucks, too (definitely compared to me). Don't think he had to go through such a crazy amount of stuff for his interview.

 

[ROMhack]

I'm actually not kidding. If the OP has a few years in marketing he could start doing freelance work. Depending on where he lives, he could also start a manual labor business doing some like lawn mowing, window washing etc. etc.

I could do in terms of responsibilities but unfortunately I don't have a client base. My roles have largely been in-house.

It's not bad advice though.

 

[eddie4]

...he could also start a manual labor business doing some like lawn mowing, window washing...

...cuddling business, hitman business, rent-a-partner business, mobile happy-ending massage business, the opportunities are endless!

on a serious note, I will be looking to start a business in the IT industry and might be looking for partners. Maybe we should have a hire-a-gaffer thread, (maybe there is one already?) where ppl can post their skills, jobs they're looking for, and we can recommend jobs, resume critique, etc, etc.

 

[48086]

I could do in terms of responsibilities but unfortunately I don't have a client base. My roles have largely been in-house.

It's not bad advice though.

You don't need a client base to start. You need to be able to show businesses how you can increase their revenue. If you're really worried that a potential client might ask for testimonials you can do two things. First, you can find case studies online where businesses used marketing to increase their revenue. Second, you can explain that your previous experience has been in-house work but you are now working on your own.

As an alternative, let's say you find a client interested in a particular service. If you outsource that service you can always ask the person you are outsourcing the work for if you can use some of their testimonials when presenting to the client.

 

[ROMhack]

You don't need a client base to start. You need to be able to show businesses how you can increase their revenue. If you're really worried that a potential client might ask for testimonials you can do two things. First, you can find case studies online where businesses used marketing to increase their revenue. Second, you can explain that your previous experience has been in-house work but you are now working on your own.

As an alternative, let's say you find a client interested in a particular service. If you outsource that service you can always ask the person you are outsourcing the work for if you can use some of their testimonials when presenting to the client.

Cool. I'll look into it.

I've considered using sites like People Per Hour but there's a lot of competition. I suppose I could use Gumtree.

Might be a case of me learning what to do and what not to do.

...cuddling business, hitman business, rent-a-partner business, mobile happy-ending massage business, the opportunities are endless!

on a serious note, I will be looking to start a business in the IT industry and might be looking for partners. Maybe we should have a hire-a-gaffer thread, (maybe there is one already?) where ppl can post their skills, jobs they're looking for, and we can recommend jobs, resume critique, etc, etc.

Yep, good idea. What are you plans for the business?

 

[eddie4]

Yep, good idea. What are you plans for the business?

Most likely, a full-on IT service, everything from consultation, to hardware installation, troubleshooting, to software development. As someone with a lot of experience in IT, I can cover a lot of it, but will be looking to outsource some of it. Planning to start on a smaller scale and start locally.

 

[ROMhack]

Jesus. Once I had an interview where I learned that they wanted me to do another one later on with someone else. I just went to another place, did a single interview and got the job.

Yeah, you may want to move. That's just insane. I know a guy who's a programmer working in Altrincham for a company that makes those interactive ad screens. He gets the big bucks, too (definitely compared to me). Don't think he had to go through such a crazy amount of stuff for his interview.

I think they're just picky because of the type of role it is. Also the sheer abundance of people in London means they can get away with it.

 

[ROMhack]

Most likely, a full-on IT service, everything from consultation, to hardware installation, troubleshooting, to software development. As someone with a lot of experience in IT, I can cover a lot of it, but will be looking to outsource some of it. Planning to start on a smaller scale and start locally.

Nice. Sounds like a pretty interesting business so good luck with it all!

 

[Geki-D]

I think they're just picky because of the type of role it is. Also the sheer abundance of people in London means they can get away with it.

Sounds like all the more reason to move. London is expensive, too. You could get a decent paying job and live like a normal person in London, or get a decent paying job and live like a king in the west midlands.

 

[ROMhack]

Sounds like all the more reason to move. London is expensive, too. You could get a decent paying job and live like a normal person in London, or get a decent paying job and live like a king in the west midlands.

Yep, I'm thinking the same thing.

I'd actually be able to afford new games.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I sit in on a lot of interviews for engineering positions at my company. I don’t make the hiring decision but contribute to the feedback. What I would do to be good at interviews is to:

- practice your answers to common interview questions like:
Tell me about yourself?
Why do you want to work here?
What is your greatest strength / weakness?
What is your biggest professional accomplishment?

- practice talking about every item on your resume. Bring a notebook with notes on your resume items so you can answer questions about them. You will 100% be asked about stuff on your resume so be prepared to answer them.

- Be positive and upbeat. Do not badmouth old employers. Stand up when someone enters the room and shake their hand. This should be obvious but not everyone does this. Generally a big part of an in person interview is evaluating if you are cool to work with.

- If they ask you a question you cannot answer, say how you would find the answer and/or promise to get back to them with the answer and then actually do.

 

[eddie4]

- practice your answers to common interview questions like:
Tell me about yourself?
Why do you want to work here?
What is your greatest strength / weakness?
What is your biggest professional accomplishment?

I hate these types of questions. Also, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?"

 

[ROMhack]

I hate these types of questions. Also, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?"

I had that once during an interview. I told them I'd like to have settled down with Ms. ROMhack and a small tabby cat.

They actually gave me the job

Edit: They didn't give me Ms. ROMhack though :'(

 

[Wings 嫩翼翻せ]

if you have everything in order its just a numbers game and the challenge is to not get discouraged.

To my main man ROMHack, as someone who was looking pretty hard and long until just recently, this seems to be the best motivational advice.

What I learned during the job search is priceless for me now. I was always told I was the best because I went to the best high school in my area, top university, etc. and I never really understood that people applying to jobs can be just as good if not better. Not that I had my ego in the air, but it did not occur to me that the competition (outside of potential things like nepotism, shoe-ins, internal candidate preference, etc.) is insane, and plenty of good candidates (read: people with experience and a competitive education/résumé) get rejected. I could write paragraphs on being rejected (even ghosted) from positions where the interviewers have hugged me, told me I was a "finalist-bound" candidate (no lie), and told me great things about my skills.

Truly, it felt like luck being where I am, in a neuroscience research laboratory. I honestly did nothing different from the previous 20-something interviews, and I would definitely share if I did. It sucks but I do think that's how it be.

 

[isual]

i hate to use your situation to uplift mine, but i was just 'feeling' meh at my current government job.

now i just need to punch myself in the gut 3 times because it is better to have a job with income coming in than none.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

OP

What part of the W.Midlands are you from?

As a seasoned job swapper (max I've spent in a job is 18 months) you need a good C.V. that makes you stand out in a crowd. I can't write them for shit, but luckily I just visit Michael Page recruiting (I don't work for them, they always land me amazing jobs though). Talk to them and they will get you on your way

In the mean time, watch and read Wolf of Wall Street. Study that shit. Read up on NLP. Read "the game" by Neil Strauss. Even have a read of Influence. There are a ton of other material out there PM me if you want to know more.

You are a product. If you can sell yourself, you can get a job anywhere.

Finally, as much as i want to keep Yorkshire, Yorkshire...LEAVE LONDON AND MOVE THE FUCK UP NORTH!

Seriously. Yorkshire is a beautiful county with a shit load of well paying jobs, cheap houses and skanky womenz (maybe not as skanky as W.Midlands) but still...

 

[ROMhack]

To my main man ROMHack, as someone who was looking pretty hard and long until just recently, this seems to be the best motivational advice.

What I learned during the job search is priceless for me now. I was always told I was the best because I went to the best high school in my area, top university, etc. and I never really understood that people applying to jobs can be just as good if not better. Not that I had my ego in the air, but it did not occur to me that the competition (outside of potential things like nepotism, shoe-ins, internal candidate preference, etc.) is insane, and plenty of good candidates (read: people with experience and a competitive education/résumé) get rejected. I could write paragraphs on being rejected (even ghosted) from positions where the interviewers have hugged me, told me I was a "finalist-bound" candidate (no lie), and told me great things about my skills.

Truly, it felt like luck being where I am, in a neuroscience research laboratory. I honestly did nothing different from the previous 20-something interviews, and I would definitely share if I did. It sucks but I do think that's how it be.

It's comforting to hear that, really does mirror my experiences. Except the hug part.

Congrats on finally landing a job in a field you want to be in

I'll keep at it myself, but I'm now looking outside of this area exclusively.

P.s. what does your name mean?

 

[ROMhack]

OP

What part of the W.Midlands are you from?

As a seasoned job swapper (max I've spent in a job is 18 months) you need a good C.V. that makes you stand out in a crowd. I can't write them for shit, but luckily I just visit Michael Page recruiting (I don't work for them, they always land me amazing jobs though). Talk to them and they will get you on your way

In the mean time, watch and read Wolf of Wall Street. Study that shit. Read up on NLP. Read "the game" by Neil Strauss. Even have a read of Influence. There are a ton of other material out there PM me if you want to know more.

You are a product. If you can sell yourself, you can get a job anywhere.

Finally, as much as i want to keep Yorkshire, Yorkshire...LEAVE LONDON AND MOVE THE FUCK UP NORTH!

Seriously. Yorkshire is a beautiful county with a shit load of well paying jobs, cheap houses and skanky womenz (maybe not as skanky as W.Midlands) but still...

I don't know where this West Midlands idea came from. I'm from a town near Leicester.

Do Michael Page have offices you can visit? I assumed they were online only.

 

[48086]

Cool. I'll look into it.

I've considered using sites like People Per Hour but there's a lot of competition. I suppose I could use Gumtree.

Might be a case of me learning what to do and what not to do.



Yep, good idea. What are you plans for the business?

My suggestion is to stay off of sites like that because there is always someone who will charge less than you, and even more importantly the businesses who use those sites are primarily looking for the cheapest option...not the best option. I would suggest putting together a small handout and just going door to door to some businesses in your local area. Starting out with no previous clients to send your referrals and no income for paid ads, face to face contact with business owners is the best option.

I hate these types of questions. Also, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?"

This cracks me up because my honest answer (not the one I give) is usually, "In 5 years I see myself in your position or as your boss."

 

[Slings and Arrows]

I don't know where this West Midlands idea came from. I'm from a town near Leicester.

Do Michael Page have offices you can visit? I assumed they were online only.

I didn't mean to tar you with that brush if you're from near Leicester

Yeah Make an appointment with MP or just walk in and see them. The Leeds and Sheffield offices are very well maintained, the staff are very professional and the jobs they have are second to none.

Plus! They write a profile on you, as a person, so they can place you in companies where you fit straight in, tune your C.V. to fit in with those companies and sell you before you even get to the first stage.

MP have, each time, sent me to a job that i expected to be a 'warm-up' interview. Took each job there and then.

 

[synchronicity]

You know this is a bit of a tangent, but if you will humor me...

As I've gotten older and grown as a person, I've realized that for me, needing/wanting less is a far better state than struggling for more. It is amazing how spartan a person can live while being utterly fulfilled.

When I divorced I downsized (big time). And now I'm in the process of getting land and building a tiny home. I am configuring my life so that I will have no bills at all other than the absolute basics.

For me, true wealth comes in the form of time (used as desired) and freedom (from the cycle of debt and interest).

Granted, not everyone is content with this type of minimalist life, but for me, as long as I can read, game, roam/have my personal adventures, and just do what I want with my time, I'm in paradise. I don't need a posh, 5th Avenue lifestyle - at all - quite the opposite for me.

I realize that is not the focus of your topic, but for me, it ties into the whole "rat-race" motif.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Snip

Same story here bud. Not a divorce though, long-term relationship. Left her the house and everything.

It was amazing how much shit we collect over the years that we don't really need.

 

[Breakage]

Yep. I'm beginning to hate living here just because of the amount hoops you have to jump through to get to the interview stage.

This was the last role I got rejected for:

- CV/Cover letter application.
- Phone interview.
- 2 hour writing assessment.
- In-person interview.
- Rejected (still waiting for feedback).

I think Americans have it tougher but London businesses are adopting similar methods.

I might just move back to the Midlands. My last job was one in-person interview. Nobody does that here.

That's ridiculous. Getting rejected after all of that must have been difficult to swallow. Most of the time it's just a set of obstacles designed to trip up and humiliate people.

My dad came to the UK in the 80s and was able to go from job to job (in London) without any of this BS. Popular job hunting advice tricks people into believing that all these time-consuming hoops are necessary to determining whether a person can do the job well. What's worse nowadays is that even entry-level jobs increasingly have these stupid hoops.

From what I've heard, things up North/outside of London and the South East seem to be more "normal" and less snobby, so I'm not surprised these multi-stage interviews don't happen.
Looking for a job these days is really about the art of boasting and lying. From the very beginning, people on both sides of the process are encouraged to be dishonest. That's the impression I get from the experiences I have had.

 

[ROMhack]

That's ridiculous. Getting rejected after all of that must have been difficult to swallow. Most of the time it's just a set of obstacles designed to trip up and humiliate people.

My dad came to the UK in the 80s and was able to go from job to job (in London) without any of this BS. Popular job hunting advice tricks people into believing that all these time-consuming hoops are necessary to determining whether a person can do the job well. What's worse nowadays is that even entry-level jobs increasingly have these stupid hoops.

From what I've heard, things up North/outside of London and the South East seem to be more "normal" and less snobby, so I'm not surprised these multi-stage interviews don't happen.
Looking for a job these days is really about the art of boasting and lying. From the very beginning, people on both sides of the process are encouraged to be dishonest. That's the impression I get from the experiences I have had.

Snobby is the perfect word to describe it.