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The Jones Act Waiver For Puerto Rico Just Expired And Won’t Be Renewed

K

KSweeley

Member
Just another Trump administration "Fuck you" to Americans living in Puerto Rico: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...977e4b0b34afa5b36e6?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

The Jones Act Waiver For Puerto Rico Just Expired And Won’t Be Renewed
That means the U.S. island decimated by Hurricane Maria will go back to paying double the shipping costs for food and supplies.

The Jones Act waiver for Puerto Rico expired on Sunday night and “it is not being extended at this time,” Department of Homeland Security spokesman David Lapan told HuffPost on Monday.

DHS had temporarily waived the Jones Act ― an arguably outdated law that imposes exorbitant shipping costs on the U.S. island ― on Sept. 28. The waiver has meant that Puerto Rico has been able to import food, fuel and supplies more quickly, and for half the costs, in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria.

With the 1920 law back in effect, the island will go back to paying much higher shipping costs to import supplies. The Jones Act requires that all goods shipped between U.S. ports be carried by American-owned and operated ships, which are more expensive vessels than others in the global marketplace. That’s meant that Puerto Rico pays double the costs for goods from the U.S. mainland compared with neighboring islands ― and that U.S. vessels are making bank.

The return to higher shipping costs won’t help Puerto Rico as it tries to climb out of economic devastation. Nearly half of the 3.4 million Americans on the island still don’t have drinking water since Maria hit nearly three weeks ago. Just 15 percent have electricity. Many people still haven’t heard from loved ones, and at least 39 deaths have been attributed to the storm.
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J

James Scott

Banned
Trump made it clear he wants the act to stay. But it's pretty insane that it wasn't extended until at least the end of october. People still need the help
 
K

KSweeley

Member
The Jones Act has been in existence since 1920!!!! Why hasn't it been repealed when Democrats had control of both the House and Senate???
 
N

numble

Member
KSweeley said:
The Jones Act has been in existence since 1920!!!! Why hasn't it been repealed when Democrats had control of both the House and Senate???
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It is supported by unions that are a primary Democratic constituency. Traditionally, it is Republicans that favor getting rid of it. The Obama administration tried to revoke waivers of the Jones Act for certain oil and gas vessels, only for the Trump administration to remove the Obama rules: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...a-proposed-changes-to-jones-act-idUSKBN1862QQ
 
J

jfkgoblue

Member
NH Apache said:
I don't understand still why the Jones act has been under so much scrutiny lately. Specifically, what is the issue?
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People don’t understand what exactly it is and just go to how it’s horrible to PR. It’s basically people (Ie John McCain) taking advantage of a tragedy to push their agenda.
 
J

jfkgoblue

Member
The Llama said:
lmao ok
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It could. If it was repealed it would destroy the US shipping industry an industry that brings in billions and employs millions. 90% of all imported goods comes by sea, and with Jones Act, it is required to be US based vessels under the US flag to move this between US ports.
 
S

Sean C

Member
jfkgoblue said:
It could. If it was repealed it would destroy the US shipping industry an industry that brings in billions and employs millions. 90% of all imported goods comes by sea, and with Jones Act, it is required to be US based vessels under the US flag to move this between US ports.
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The Jones Act only applies to shipments between two American ports, which describes a tiny percentage of all shipping; its repeal wouldn't at all affect the flow of goods into the USA. Indeed, to the extent that it did, it would lower the price of shipping goods. And the US shipping industry is minor, at this point, and ridiculously uncompetitive on a global scale.
 
J

jfkgoblue

Member
Sean C said:
The Jones Act only applies to shipments between two American ports, which describes a tiny percentage of all shipping; its repeal wouldn't at all affect the flow of goods into the USA. Indeed, to the extent that it did, it would lower the price of shipping goods. And the US shipping industry is minor, at this point, and ridiculously uncompetitive on a global scale.
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The US shipping industry is huge still though. It’s a $40 billion industry that employs millions. It may not affect the flow of goods into the US but cutting that many people out of the workforce would be devestating.
 
N

numble

Member
jfkgoblue said:
It could. If it was repealed it would destroy the US shipping industry an industry that brings in billions and employs millions. 90% of all imported goods comes by sea, and with Jones Act, it is required to be US based vessels under the US flag to move this between US ports.
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This is not a correct understanding of the Jones Act. Foreign vessels can bring goods into the US. The existing US vessels that bring in goods from foreign ports are also doing so without the benefit of the Jones Act.
 
J

jfkgoblue

Member
numble said:
This is not a correct understanding of the Jones Act. Foreign vessels can bring goods into the US. The existing US vessels that bring in goods from foreign ports are also doing so without the benefit of the Jones Act.
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I know this, but to transport it between US ports the Jones Act helps them immensely, which is still a large part of the industry.
 
S

Sean C

Member
jfkgoblue said:
I know this, but to transport it between US ports the Jones Act helps them immensely, which is still a large part of the industry.
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The Jones Act absolutely does keep the US shipping industry alive, but the US shipping industry at this point is tiny and laughably uncompetitive. Its being driven out of business would absolutely not crash the economy. Some people would lose their jobs, but many others would benefit from drastically lower shipping costs. The fact that goods in Puerto Rico cost twice as much as in the US Virgin Islands (which isn't subject to the Jones Act) shows how much the US' uncompetitive shipping inflates costs.
 
N

numble

Member
jfkgoblue said:
I know this, but to transport it between US ports the Jones Act helps them immensely, which is still a large part of the industry.
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What percentage of the shipping industry is this US-to-US shipment by sea? The way the US is setup makes it pretty inefficient to ship between US ports. If you want something from Asia, you ship it to Los Angeles and trains and trucks take it from there. The same with something from Europe going to New England. It doesn't make economic sense for ships to load up on the coast, head south through the Panama Canal and go to the other side of the country.
 
S

ShdwDrake

Banned
I hate laws that are there to stop an industry from dying.

It's called capitalism. If they people aren't spending the money to keep the industry the industry should die because the people decided they don't want it.
 
J

jfkgoblue

Member
Sean C said:
The Jones Act absolutely does keep the US shipping industry alive, but the US shipping industry at this point is tiny and laughably uncompetitive. Its being driven out of business would absolutely not crash the economy. Some people would lose their jobs, but many others would benefit from drastically lower shipping costs. The fact that goods in Puerto Rico cost twice as much as in the US Virgin Islands (which isn't subject to the Jones Act) shows how much the US' uncompetitive shipping inflates costs.
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It may be small on the global scale but it is still important, I don’t know if it would crash the economy but it has the potential.
numble said:
What percentage of the shipping industry is this US-to-US shipment by sea? The way the US is setup makes it pretty inefficient to ship between US ports. If you want something from Asia, you ship it to Los Angeles and trains and trucks take it from there. The same with something from Europe going to New England. It doesn't make economic sense for ships to load up on the coast, head south through the Panama Canal and go to the other side of the country.
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The goods come into Norfolk on the east coast typically and then moved to other ports from there.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
NH Apache said:
I don't understand still why the Jones act has been under so much scrutiny lately. Specifically, what is the issue?
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It requires good shipped between U.S. ports to be delivered by U.S. ships flying the U.S. flag. For the continental forty-eight states, this doesn’t matter as much — they’re accessible by land. For Hawaii and Puerto Rico, this results in a significant negative effect to their economies.
 
T

TheDrizzlerJ11

Member
ShdwDrake said:
I hate laws that are there to stop an industry from dying.

It's called capitalism. If they people aren't spending the money to keep the industry the industry should die because the people decided they don't want it.
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This isn’t truly about capitalism when the business is going to another country. You have to regulate and tax foreign businesses, they cut costs where US companies aren’t allowed to. Especially when it comes to something like shipping. It wouldn’t be a fair market if they weren’t taxed.

The feds should just pay for a percentage of the merchants fees or something. Natural Catastrophes are expensive, just a fact of life. They need all the help they can get but they shouldn’t be choosing foreign help while the American merchants are put out of business.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
This isn’t truly about capitalism when the business is going to another country. You have to regulate and tax foreign businesses, they cut costs where US companies aren’t allowed to. Especially when it comes to something like shipping. It wouldn’t be a fair market if they weren’t taxed.

The feds should just pay for a percentage of the merchants fees or something. Natural Catastrophes are expensive, just a fact of life. They need all the help they can get but they shouldn’t be choosing foreign help while the American merchants are put out of business.
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Or we could just let those companies go out of business and those affected could find other jobs.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
The Jones Act requires that all goods shipped between U.S. ports be carried by American-owned and operated ships, which are more expensive vessels than others in the global marketplace.
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That's simple protectionism. It's anti-conservative.
 
T

TheDrizzlerJ11

Member
exmachina64 said:
Or we could just let those companies go out of business and those affected could find other jobs.
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There aren’t “other jobs” when you’re eliminating an industry lol. This isn’t like GM failing to adapt or something. US merchants still compete with each other. We just have higher labor standards and the inspections and licensing of the ships is more expensive due to the higher safety standards and what not. They’d really be bailing out Puerto Rico who can’t afford US merchants atm. They wouldn’t be bailing out the US merchants.
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
I have a ton of issues with the Jones Act.

But the issue with Puerto Rico at the moment, and really since the hurricane has not been getting supplies to the island.
 
T

t26

Member
jfkgoblue said:
The US shipping industry is huge still though. It’s a $40 billion industry that employs millions. It may not affect the flow of goods into the US but cutting that many people out of the workforce would be devestating.
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So the same argument use to keep coal industry alive? Maybe it is time for the US shipping to be more comparative instead of having Hawaii and PR bear the cost.
 
J

jfkgoblue

Member
exmachina64 said:
Or we could just let those companies go out of business and those affected could find other jobs.
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You sound like a hardcore conservative.(Which btw, repealing the Jones Act is a very conservative position)
t26 said:
So the same argument use to keep coal industry alive? Maybe it is time for the US shipping to be more comparative instead of having Hawaii and PR bear the cost.
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It’s not the same thing as the coal industry. To be more competitive with the global shipping industry means not having the regulations the US industry has.
 
T

TheDrizzlerJ11

Member
t26 said:
So the same argument use to keep coal industry alive? Maybe it is time for the US shipping to be more comparative instead of having Hawaii and PR bear the cost.
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This isn’t the same as coal. Our shipping methods aren’t outdated, in some senses it’s the opposite. The outdated methods just happen to be cheaper.
 
S

Sean C

Member
jfkgoblue said:
It may be small on the global scale but it is still important, I don’t know if it would crash the economy but it has the potential.
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No, it doesn’t. Not even the US shipping industry makes such a grandiose claim. It’s a tiny sector that is kept on life support because most Americans don’t care one way or another.
 
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