I wouldn't know about later chapters, but as of Chapter 4, I can say that the only region I've returned to on a regular basis so far in CS has been Trista (and by extension, Thors Military Academy itself).
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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Is that by choice youve only returned to that region, or the only one youve been allowed (not blocked off) to return to?
Blocked. Keeps moving forward with the story. New chapter --> Trista --> new region --> end --> repeat.
Ah, ok. So Cold Steel is like that again. A bit disappointing, but not a deal-breaker.
Thanks.
Cold Steel II, however, isn't like that. Like the Crossbell games, it gradually opens up the world. A blessing for some, a bane for others; good luck finding that one hidden quest.
12 hours into SC now and I just beat chapter 2.
The whole gimmick of "something weird is happening -> Oh shit its a new Ouroboros fucker -> Fight this boss that isn't the Ouroboros fucker because they're just too strong -> They leave acting all haughty" is starting to get on my nerves, and I've only seen it twice. Like, you're not doing a good job of selling me on the idea that Estelle and her crew will ever actually be able to beat Ouroboros when apparently every single one can beat up your whole squad with one attack.
Plus, I don't see how any of them can be tougher than that big evil Penguin that I fought.
Plus, I don't see how any of them can be tougher than that big evil Penguin that I fought.
TonkatsuAddict
Member
Finally beat Trails in the Sky SC. What a ride that was. My save says 72 hours, my Steam account says 83. At some point, I think I'd like to do a NG+ and grab some of the achievements I missed, but I think for the moment I need to move onto something else first. Like, say, Trails of Cold Steel.
Well, that's good at least. I like an open world.
But to me, finding that 'hidden quest' would be just as difficult for me even if the regions are locked off from one another.
And that is another aspect that I really don't like about the Legend of Heroes games, the hidden/missable quests. Not as much hidden, but that they can be missable, as well.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
The way some (though not all) of the side quests are written, they wouldn't make sense story-wise to happen before or after certain main plot events. That's probably part of the reason they're designed to be missable. (And then there's just Falcom deliberately wanting to make wildly obscure hidden things, such as putting books in the most out of the way places.)
Personally I don't mind them - either I don't feel like being a completionist and so will go through the game getting whatever I get, or I do and will pull out a guide to follow. But I can understand people getting annoyed at not being able to do everything, especially in an era when a lot of games make missing things very hard if not impossible.
Yeah, well, I am a bit OCD in regards to trying to get as much as I can.
And the problem is I just don't have the time to play through again (to get everything) on NG+. So when something is easily missable, it is a bit annoying.I don't think I would be as OCD if there wasn't some benefit in getting everything. But I had heard getting
all of the Carnelia volumes in FC nets you Estelle's best weapon
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Yeah, well, I am a bit OCD in regards to trying to get as much as I can.
I don't think I would be as OCD if there wasn't some benefit in getting everything. But I had heard getting. Stuff like that is very irritating. Considering not getting all of those can be so easy to do.all of the Carnelia volumes in FC nets you Estelle's best weapon
Ah, yeah.
It actually can get you either Estelle's or Joshua's best weapon; you have to pick between the two. Perhaps the ultimate slap to OCD!
Ugh, you have to pick? Yeah, makes it even worse.
Yeah, following a guide now. I have all of them up to the beginning of Chapter III. Just wish I didn't have to do it
to make sure I get the weapon.
Oh well. Still enjoying the game. Moving along well now, but it was hard getting through the beginning of the game. This is the third time going through the game, the other two times couldn't get past Chapter 1.
Winnie the Pimp
Member
All that stuff about following guides and what not has got me thinking...is this the kind of game you almost HAVE to play with a guide to get a decent ending etc. kinda like a Suikoden game or is it totally enjoyable if you you just play through it without worrying about any of that missable stuff?
The missable stuff is just side quests, so while you might miss out on some fun little side stories, it ultimately doesn't matter. I don't think any of the Kiseki games have alternate endings or anything like that.
Basileus777
Member
It's not like a Suikoden game and there aren't alternate endings. I'd actually advise someone to play these games without worrying about collectables or even bracer points. The rewards for collecting everything or getting all the points are inconsequential and if you want to read the in-game books they are all online anyway.
You must have a guide if you want to get platinum.
I finished without a guide with no problem
You can play by yourself, but I would use a guide to not lose any side mission.
I have been doing this for Trails in the Azure to not miss any side-quest (and some are really well hidden) and not lose any BP
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I play with a guide simply because I want to see some of the nice character interactions that happen in the optional content. But you don't have to. Nothing in the main game is obscure, since the Bracer Notebook in FC/SC clearly lays out what you need to do at any given time.
Sure in specific, each town still offers something interesting, but in the grand scheme, don't you think it's really anticlimax? By the end of FC things started to get real and I was anticipating something big in SC yet after I booted up SC, I got 15 hours or so of traveling around the world -- and mostly the same old dungeons for crying out loud. Luckily, Falcom has learned their lessons. Both Ao and Cold Steel II start off strong (too bad chapter 2 is a real slug). They know they won't get away with it for a second time.
Maybe if yo play FC and SC when they came out like Japanese gamers, it would feel different because SC allow you to get familiar with the world again, but playing them back to back (I assume many of us do), it really is straight up bad game design.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
You shouldn't be playing with a guide because you should be talking to every NPC after every story scene. That's the correct way to play the games.
Basileus777
Member
I'd hate the Sky games if I played them that way, Cold Steel introducing quick travel actually makes doing this something not only for crazy people.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Even if you talked to every NPC after every story scene, knowing that for the last Carnelia volume you need to
speak to Anton once, wait for the girl he's watching to pass by twice, then wait for the girl to come back and stop a little ways away, then go talk to the girl so she will continue to walk, then come back and talk to Anton once more
I just don't get the point of hiding something optional this obnoxiously
I'm all for character and world development, but that sounds painful.
Get to Esmelas Tower.
Hey Joshua, check out this tower, what could be here? Watch rest of story scene.
Run back to Rolent, talk to all NPCs, and taking time to read their responses, taking 20 minutes.
Run back to EsmelasTower and fight way to top.
Fight boss, talk to Professor, run all the way back to Rolent and talk to everyone again.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I still say these are the series' real hard mode.
I followed a guide for max BP and the book chapters, but those are normally things you would go after if you replay these games. So the choice is do you want to get most of it in a single playthrough or play normally and get the rest later.
pfft. after spending 3-4 hours trying to beat a single boss on my 3rd No-Carryover Nightmare run, I may beg to differ. xD
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I don't know... that doesn't sound bad at all. Maybe put Perzel Farm, Verte Bridge and Gurune Gate on top of it.
And the NPC dialogues don't update that often, anyway.
That was just an example. I think it's neat that the NPCs update their conversations. But my point is if the dialogue updated often like indicated originally, having to talk to all the townsfolk each time would not be fun.
I've been more diligent about talking to everyone in CS than FC so far. I didn't go to Verte Gate until the quest that had me go that way, and didn't bother going to Gurune Gate until around the end of the prologue.
That way to get the final volume of Carnelia, however, does sound obnoxiously obtuse.
That way to get the final volume of Carnelia, however, does sound obnoxiously obtuse.
From the top of my head only the aria.
I'm closing in on The 3rd Evo's final chapter, but the game suffers evidently from the same issues are previous games: it's terribly unbalanced. Normal mobs don't stand a chance against you since hitting them in the back allows you to start the fight with four critical turns and earns you double the experience points. Zero Arts and Zero Crafts makes it even easier. However, Chara-Ani realised the unfairness of these AT bonuses and multiplied the opponents' HP by x2.5. I don't notice any particular differences in the damage you deal, so by making opponents' tanks fights can get unnecessarily long. Some comparisons (spoilers - Chapter 6 boss names):
- Cassius: 80.000 -> 200.000
- Blueblanc: 53.370 -> 133.425
- Schwarzritter: 79.900 -> 199.975
- Schwarzritter clones: 29.900 -> 199.975
- D. Phantom: 60.000 -> 150.000
- Blueblanc: 53.370 -> 133.425
- Schwarzritter: 79.900 -> 199.975
- Schwarzritter clones: 29.900 -> 199.975
- D. Phantom: 60.000 -> 150.000
The voice acting, however, is outstanding. Kevin has always been great, but shines the brightest in this game. Most impressive so far was (Chapter 4 spoiler)
how frighteningly different he sounds as soon as he uses his Stigma
Ein's rant and Kevin's response to it
Renne's appearance, Estelle's counter-argument and Tita's intervention
The music is also great for the most part. I had some reservations before the release because The 3rd's soundtrack is so unique, but I think it's a strong arrangement overall. Only disappointment was the semi-muted piano in the Final Choice; not sure why you would mute the instrument playing the melody, but okay.
Kiseki de Pon has new questions, which is awesome. Not sure whether I'll be able to make it to Rank 1 for the trophy, though.
Finished Cold Steel earlier today and loved it. Thought I might post a couple quick CS2 questions here.
How exactly does the save import work WRT your level? My team was ~65, so will Rean be that strong when I import?
Also, how does the game perform on Vita? I'm watching some gameplay of it from the stream XSEED did for E3 and it looks noticeably better than the first game. They're playing on PS3, but I'm curious if Vita visuals/performance were improved, since that's what I play on.
How exactly does the save import work WRT your level? My team was ~65, so will Rean be that strong when I import?
Also, how does the game perform on Vita? I'm watching some gameplay of it from the stream XSEED did for E3 and it looks noticeably better than the first game. They're playing on PS3, but I'm curious if Vita visuals/performance were improved, since that's what I play on.
Nope. Your level will go back to 40 IIRC. You will get some bonus items, might help you a bit in the beginning. You can grind Rean to level 70 to get better bonus.
Your level does not affect the starting level. The level and academic rank determine your bonuses.
The game's performance on Vita is nearly identical to the PS3, bar the changes we've already seen with the first game: shades and general colouring is better in the PS3 version, loading times are longer than the PS3 version (just like in Cold Steel 1) and there is one major framedrop during an endgame cutscene that isn't in the PS3 version. The stuttering framerate in e.g. misty Legram is in both versions.
Huh, gotcha. Looks I don't have much to worry about then, thanks.
Suuuure wish they'd announce that release date already.
CS1: The framerate was not that bad on PS3 in the location you mention, iirc (i'll be replaying it soon). Additionally, the load times in and out of battle are less on PS3. It takes longer to save your game on PS3. I felt like the load times between zones were pretty similar on PS3 and Vita.
The Vita version is still fine though, but i'll always recommend the PS3 version first.
I'm having a really hard time convincing myself to complete SC. It's fucking infuriating at times, and the story where I am is fucking awful and depressing. Can anyone convince me to go through with this and beat the game, or should I just give up now?
Rant over. Long and short of it, should I keep playing? Does the game get any better?
I'm about at chapter 4 and the story is dreadful. It's incredibly depressing to play through a game for over 20 hours and have no light at the end of the tunnel. The game is constantly reminding me that my team is shit and the bad guys are so impossibly strong that I see no way that this story will end on a good note. It's just "Oh this guy is so tough, we can't beat them!" again and again and a-fucking-gain. I'm getting so fucking sick of not feeling like I have a prayer of beating the bad guys. The story pacing is just the worst. At least with FC I felt like I was accomplishing something in each of the chapters. Here it really feels like if the heroes had just called in sick and didn't bother to show up, nothing would've changed. All the bad guys' plans go off without a hitch, so why am I even playing?
The combat is just as grating. The wanted monsters are so fucking cheap. It's always a group of like 6 monsters that summon allies and get to move incredibly often and take no damage from your attacks except for this one element of magic[ but they all either do so much AOE damage that you have to be constantly healing or they're spamming so many status effects that you have to constantly be curing and using items on your party that you can't really fight back. And God forbid if any of the monsters can heal themselves. Plus there's no way to reduce the difficulty from what I can tell, so I just can't beat these missions I guess. That seems like incredibly poor game design to not be able to reduce the difficulty after starting the game.
The combat is just as grating. The wanted monsters are so fucking cheap. It's always a group of like 6 monsters that summon allies and get to move incredibly often and take no damage from your attacks except for this one element of magic[ but they all either do so much AOE damage that you have to be constantly healing or they're spamming so many status effects that you have to constantly be curing and using items on your party that you can't really fight back. And God forbid if any of the monsters can heal themselves. Plus there's no way to reduce the difficulty from what I can tell, so I just can't beat these missions I guess. That seems like incredibly poor game design to not be able to reduce the difficulty after starting the game.
Rant over. Long and short of it, should I keep playing? Does the game get any better?
Do Estelle and crew actually win in the end? Or should I just give up now. Feel free to spoil me, I really don't care. If the game doesn't end with on a good note then I'm out.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Ha ha.
Do you really think this game would end with Estelle being defeated? This isn't a Yoko Taro game.
As far as the wanted monsters go, I haven't found any of them impossible to defeat with the right strategy, and unlike FC the quests give you some basic tips on how to deal with them, which is nice. I'm playing on Normal though; if you started on Hard, that was probably a mistake.
I mean,
I'm twenty hours in and the bad guys haven't shown a single weakness. They haven't even fought me. They just beat my ass in cutscenes. It's very demoralizing to play for that long and feel like you've accomplished nothing at all.
Also the basic tips for beating wanted monsters are crap. It's stuff like "They're weak to water" or "They steal life" which doesn't help at all because there's no way to counter stuff like life-drain or ally summoning, and it's not like the correct elemental attacks do stupid amounts of damage. They just do slightly more than normal attacks, which given that the magic in this game isn't instantaneous means that the overall DPS is about the same.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
It's true that the immense strength of the members of Ouroboros is continually emphasized. As I see it, that's to set up what seems like a nearly impossible goal so that the satisfaction of finally achieving it in the end is all the greater, and to extend their screen time since each of them is given a character arc of their own in connection with a member of your party that they're associated with. As always, characterization is paramount for these games. Also, you are helping to solve regional problems through investigation and pursuit, as well as slowly collecting information about the organization that will help with the eventual confrontation. Remember that basically the entire plot of FC was a "all according to plan" gambit by Weissman as well.
You might want to check your party composition and orbment setup. You have a lot of options for adjusting the tool set your characters have at their disposal, so make use of it. I don't know exactly what problem you're having with the battles, of course, but all I can say is that while I found some of them reasonably challenging, nothing was beyond my ability level.
They set up the "Oroborous is tough" angle within the first real chapter. They didn't need to beat you over the head with it as much as they did. Like, I just beat chapter 3 and it revealed that they have Gundams. OK?! I already knew that these guys were unstoppable badasses that run the world. That was completely superfluous and did nothing except make me roll my eyes. It feels like the game is over-comepensating in some way. Like, they haven't proven to me that the villains are well written, because they haven't revealed what their big plans are, I get that, so instead of making compelling villains they've just made them unstoppable monsters. But I don't care. That doesn't grab me as a player. Colonel Richard in FC was so much more interesting to me when I thought it was really just about a coup attempt. As soon as they revealed it was some super secret shadow organization I just lost all interest, and nothing in SC has gotten my interest back.
I feel like my party comp is as good as it's going to get. I picked Agate at the start, which was clearly a mistake because I can't switch him out and Zane is much better as a physical DPS character, but I've got him, Estelle (obv), Shara on magic offense, and Kloe on heal duty because her super is busted. The problem is that I'm at a point where I can't grind any because the army cleared all the roads of monsters so I either have to give up and move on or just try to beat my head against this wanted monster group until it gives up, which is no fun.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
It's true that SC has more of a traditional JRPG big evil plot than FC, so I can understand not liking that. What I enjoy about the Ouroboros characters is the personal backstory and motivations that are gradually revealed over the course of SC. That's something which is slow to reveal itself, so you probably don't have a good sense of that yet given where you are in the story. Bleublanc is the one villain who doesn't really have a close connection to anyone in your party, although his gentleman theft persona is fairly enjoyable in itself. The connection that revealed itself between Zane, Kilika, and Walter at the end of chapter 2 is an indication of where the story is going to head.
Nah, Agate is fine. He's actually more useful than Scherazard in combat, I feel, since Schera is more of an all rounder without being particularly skilled in any one area. Kloe is super powerful at not just healing, but also offensive arts, and you want to make sure you're developing her properly because she'll be one of the greatest assets you have.
Grinding is essentially impossible anyway. Experience heavily scales in FC/SC, so it's difficult to be below or above a certain level range at any given point in the story. Given where you say you are, I assume you're dealing with the Royal Avenue Monster? Make sure Kloe and one more character, Olivier or Estelle, has a large group water attack ready to go, and concentrate on using that in conjunction with group crafts to take down the enemy group.
Well that's good. Walter and Bleublanc were pretty much the only two members that I've been able to stand so far. Renee was fucking awful, mainly because I was able to guess that she was a member the moment I saw her back in chapter 1 or whatever just because she had a unique sprite and appears on one of the achievements on Steam. I wish they would have better characterizations from the get-go though. Wading through hours and hours of gameplay against their demi-gods is enough of a chore. They don't also need to be unflinching and inscrutable for that long as well.
I'd still appreciate being able to fight them for once though. I get that they'd kick my ass, but at least kick my ass in gameplay from Christ's sake. Just doing in a cutscene leaves me feeling nothing.
I'd still appreciate being able to fight them for once though. I get that they'd kick my ass, but at least kick my ass in gameplay from Christ's sake. Just doing in a cutscene leaves me feeling nothing.
Yeah, it's the Royal Avenue one. I can't stand monsters that summon more monsters, especially when the monsters they summon knock your party members out. I can't grind CP either because of the lack of normal fights, which really sucks because I basically used up all of Shera and Estelle's during the last boss fight(s). I thought Kloe spamming Diamont Dust would be enough but the monsters move around so much that I can't get a bead on them to hit more than one (plus they're immune to freezing of course, I don't know why the game lets you bother with status effects when every single moderately powerful monster is immune to them).
The first twenty hours of SC have so many problems, BUT, if you are able to go through it, the reward is very satisfying.
You gonna take each and every one of them down, and trust me, the sense of progression is fantastic. They made the game so that you can feel you grow stronger and stronger from what you've been through. And finally you will win the fights you once thought were impossible.
Do I take them down in this game? Or do I have to wait for the next one? I want to smear their asses across the pavement. How many more chapters do I have to get through before I start actually fight back against Oroborous?
hosannainexcelsis
Member
It's a gradual process. You fight them all directly in chapter 7 and then get a final fight with them in the final dungeon.
Oh, thank God. That's a lot sooner than I thought. I was afraid it'd be chapter 12 or something.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Early game spoilers:
Yeah, this repetition is kinda rough from a birds eye view and yeah, is a flaw. I've made mention a few times in the past that having the events of Ch3 be Ch4 with that being "WE ARE OUROBORUS, ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US" woulda worked better with the previous run-ins being an attack by sandworms and an abandoned base, Bleublanc's "I have you now my pretty" bit that looks like an expansion on that FC quest to someone who dont know what his day job is yet and then well...
Late game spoilers:
...what goes down in Ch4. Ch4 is where the plot gets bigger events and the villians plans come closer to fruition so it seems less like them teabagging the heroes and the heroes not calling in more heroes for no good reason. There's a few times later this repetition could rankle you since this did.
Also Estelle's hitting another gear in BEAST MODE soon so hang in there and focus on the short-term arcs till later! It's good, trust me!
Also Estelle's hitting another gear in BEAST MODE soon so hang in there and focus on the short-term arcs till later! It's good, trust me!
As for those birds, I remember doing something very different for my second and successful attempt but I forget what it was; I think I just blew one the fuck up on the get-go with supers and that kept things under control, but I don't think it was just that though.