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[Trojita]

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/12/17/whistleblower-claims-that/

A whistleblower complaint to the IRS accuses The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints of building a $100 billion investment portfolio using donations intended for charitable purposes, potentially in violation of federal tax laws, according to a Monday report published by The Washington Post.

The complaint was filed by David Nielsen, a former portfolio manager for the church’s nonprofit investment arm Ensign Peak Advisors, with the help of his brother Lars Nielsen, who spoke with and provided supporting documents to The Post.

“In a declaration signed under penalty of perjury, Nielsen urges the IRS to strip the nonprofit of its tax-exempt status and alleges that Ensign could owe billions in taxes,” The Post reports. “He is seeking a reward from the IRS, which offers whistleblowers a cut of unpaid taxes that it recovers.”

Church spokesman Eric Hawkins declined to respond to The Post’s reporting, and instead directed The Salt Lake Tribune to a Q&A on church finances and an ecclesiastical article titled “The Spiritual Foundations of Church Financial Self-Reliance” that makes reference to a practice of reserving a portion of the church’s annual income for future needs.

“The church does not provide information about specific transactions or financial decisions,” Hawkins said.

 

[Cravis]

 

[Rest]

No one should be surprised that an organization that twists its young people's arms into being recruiters for it ("missionaries") and then charges them money for the privilege is hoarding money.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

The Morman "Church".

Sorry, not sorry. You don't get to call yourself a legitimate religion when your founder was a conman who was kicked out of multiple states for being a con artist. Its literally the 1800's version of scientology.

Not that any religion is legitimate, mind you.

 

[DESTROYA]

Not that any religion is legitimate, mind you.

Just because you don’t think so doesn’t make it true.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

But I thought churches were all about religion good family values and collecting money to help out the community?

Oh wait, money towards non-charitable activities, pervert priests and skimming the donating tray.

What a surprise.

 

[Gargus]

All religions exist to control people. Plain and simple. That's why they were invented to begin with. You can't exist without having followers and you can't exist without money. So their entire goal is to convince people to follow them without actually giving them anything in return and to convince people to give them money. A church is a business that takes everything and returns nothing. It's the ultimate scam.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Just because you don’t think so doesn’t make it true.

The only difference between you and I in the number of religions we think are illegitimate is 1.

 

[teh_pwn]

South Park really nailed it. Working and living in central Texas, I've met quite a few practicing Mormons. They're super fucking nice. The non practicing ones tend to be wild.

It's hard to rail against them after knowing so many, but yeah it's totally a light cult even if i don't bring it up.

With that said I can't say I view them any more negatively than evangelicals, southern Baptists, and serious Catholics. Generally only Lutherans and protestants seem to be non judgemental and compartmentalized.

 

[DESTROYA]

The only difference between you and I in the number of religions we think are illegitimate is 1.

Not necessarily true, I think most religions serve a purpose wether you think one is more or less legitimate is just your own opinion and that’s fine.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Just as the tablets foretold!

May Zeus have mercy on them and may Poseidon still water their crops this season!

 

[godhandiscen]

The Morman "Church".

Sorry, not sorry. You don't get to call yourself a legitimate religion when your founder was a conman who was kicked out of multiple states for being a con artist. Its literally the 1800's version of scientology.

Not that any religion is legitimate, mind you.

What is the difference between said con artist and Jesus, Budha, etc? They all were on con men using fantasies to get others to believe in their ideologies.
Just because a fantasy book was written thousands of years ago, it doesn't mean it is more legitimate than the plot of star wars.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

What is the difference between said con artist and Jesus, Budha, etc? They all were on con men using fantasies to get others to believe in their ideologies.
Just because a fantasy book was written thousands of years ago, it doesn't mean it is more legitimate than the plot of star wars.

What con was in Christs scriptures?

The Mormon church was founded by some guy who found some tablets in new york allegedly and then based a religion off it by combining it with greek mythology.

So unless you think Zeus is coming to save us by sending Hercules to stop the aliens I think that the Mormon church deserves some skepticism.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

What is the difference between said con artist and Jesus, Budha, etc? They all were on con men using fantasies to get others to believe in their ideologies.
Just because a fantasy book was written thousands of years ago, it doesn't mean it is more legitimate than the plot of star wars.

I think you missed the last line of my post

 

[Thaedolus]

What is the difference between said con artist and Jesus, Budha, etc? They all were on con men using fantasies to get others to believe in their ideologies.
Just because a fantasy book was written thousands of years ago, it doesn't mean it is more legitimate than the plot of star wars.

I don’t think the post you’re quoting would disagree?

And as an ex-Mormon who grew up in the left the religion, I’m not shocked at all. They like to boast of their lay clergy while paying the higher ranks six figure stipends on top of covering the rest of their living expenses.

 

[godhandiscen]

What con was in Christs scriptures?

The Mormon church was founded by some guy who found some tablets in new york allegedly and then based a religion off it by combining it with greek mythology.

So unless you think Zeus is coming to save us by sending Hercules to stop the aliens I think that the Mormon church deserves some skepticism.

Do you really think old man J turned water into wine? cured the blind? walked over water?

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Do you really think old man J turned water into wine? cured the blind? walked over water?

You didn't answer the question, what was the con?

The Mormon church made sense to call a con because you had a criminal finding tablets withholding information and using a proxy to spread his translations around while combining it with greek mythology to complete the missing bits and made tons off it.

I don't see an equivalent.

 

[godhandiscen]

You didn't answer the question, what was the con?

The Mormon church made sense to call a con because you had a criminal finding tablets withholding information and using a proxy to spread his translations around while combining it with greek mythology to complete the missing bits and made tons off it.

I don't see an equivalent.

The Catholic/Christian church uses mythology (tales of miracles) to con their followers into paying tithe and making other offerings. How is that con different from the one the Mormon founders pulled?

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

into paying tithe and making other offerings.

Which isn't in any of Christs writings, that is something that the so called churches made up to get easily gullible people to give them money since most people don't actually read them and only follow what the person at the front of the building says with complete trust.

The Mormon church even as written was done so as a con. Unless you believe Zeus is going to come and zap you because you didn't drink your Gatorade this morning and give 40% of your income.

 

[godhandiscen]

Which isn't in any of Christs writings, that is something that the so called churches made up to get easily gullible people to give them money since most people don't actually read them and only follow what the person at the front of the building says with complete trust.

The Mormon church even as written was done so as a con. Unless you believe Zeus is going to come and zap you because you didn't drink your Gatorade this morning and give 40% of your income.

AFAIK nothing was written by Christ, but by his disciples and there is tons of magic in those tales.
Jesus was a philosopher, who made a living going around towns preaching his ideas and living off the people who believed in him.
There is merit on some of his teachings, as much as there is merit on the mormon's teachings. I don't understand why we are trying to paint Christians under a different light.

 

[Shifty1897]

South Park really nailed it. Working and living in central Texas, I've met quite a few practicing Mormons. They're super fucking nice. The non practicing ones tend to be wild.

It's hard to rail against them after knowing so many, but yeah it's totally a light cult even if i don't bring it up.

With that said I can't say I view them any more negatively than evangelicals, southern Baptists, and serious Catholics. Generally only Lutherans and protestants seem to be non judgemental and compartmentalized.

Oh wow someone said something nice about Lutherans. We don't have a protocol for this because I don't think it has ever happened

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

AFAIK nothing was written by Christ, but by his disciples and there is tons of magic in those tales.
Jesus was a philosopher, who made a living going around towns preaching his ideas and living off the people who believed in him.
There is merit on some of his teachings, as much as there is merit on the mormon's teachings. I don't understand why we are trying to paint Christians under a different light.

There are some miracles and several metaphors that don't actually mean what they say which you confuse as magic. You are also making an assumption he was only living off people who believed in him, yet he did work.

Regardless of whether you believe in the writings or not, they are not comparable to a whole book being written by one man to con people. The same man who took poorly translated tablets combined with greek mythology to create a new religion solely to get peoples cash and to evade the law.

These aren't equal no matter how much you dislike religion.

You also still haven't answered the original question either, what was the con in Christs scriptures? They weren't written for a con, many of them go against what a typical man desires, which most men would never write, so the objectives are different even if you think both are fake.

You seem to be tiptoeing around this. Quoting you exactly, you said Jesus himself was a con man. I'm not arguing over whether religion is real or not, I'm trying to figure out what con you're talking about.

 

[godhandiscen]

There are some miracles and several metaphors that don't actually mean what they say which you confuse as magic. You are also making an assumption he was only living off people who believed in him, yet he did work.

Regardless of whether you believe in the writings or not, they are not comparable to a whole book being written by one man to con people. The same man who took poorly translated tablets combined with greek mythology to create a new religion solely to get peoples cash and to evade the law.

These aren't equal no matter how much you dislike religion.

Oh so some magic has to be interpreted as metaphors? Yeah, the black people being exiled by the mormon ancestors were also just a metaphor for evil people.

You also still haven't answered the original question either, what was the con in Christs scriptures? They weren't written for a con, many of them go against what a typical man desires, which most men would never write, so the objectives are different even if you think both are fake.

You seem to be tiptoeing around this. Quoting you exactly, you said Jesus himself was a con man. I'm not arguing over whether religion is real or not, I'm trying to figure out what con you're talking about.

I answered to your question. Jesus and his disciples preached their philosophies as the key to access a happy afterlife. In exchange, they received donations. I mean, Judas was the treasurer.

Funding Jesus: Who bankrolled Christ’s ministry? | CNN

Some of Jesus’ most important financial backers were women, historians say.

www.cnn.com

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Oh so some magic has to be interpreted as metaphors? Yeah, the black people being exiled by the mormon ancestors were also just a metaphor for evil people.

Links to disputed speculation that isn't consistent across historians doesn't help you here.

Also you have yet to answer the question, now you are making very strange comparisons to the Mormon church and black people. I get you dislike religion but it appears you aren't capable of discussing this issue without deviating from the topic. You are the one that claimed Jesus was a con man and have yet to provide a reason why. If you won't provide one than fine.

 

[godhandiscen]

Links to disputed speculation that isn't consistent across historians doesn't help you here.

Also you have yet to answer the question, now you are making very strange comparisons to the Mormon church and black people. I get you dislike religion but it appears you aren't capable of discussing this issue without deviating from the topic. You are the one that claimed Jesus was a con man and have yet to provide a reason why. If you won't provide one than fine.

I do not believe we are going to understand each other. I have answered your question, but you will not accept it.
Do you believe in Jesus? If so, I cannot convince you he is a con man through a NeoGAF post.

 

[Bigrx1]

My ex was a Mormon who had officially left the church years before I met her. BUT, all her family was still full-blown Mormon, so for holidays and get togethers I got to interact with them and it was one of the strangest family dynamics ever. VERY much male dominated, the dad was full in control of the house and mom just cooked and cleaned and was very subservient. Also, and I"m not exaggerating here, the ONLY thing they watched on tv was Disney movies. That's it! Some of their tons of kids were late teens early 20's and still at the house just watching nothing but Disney movies. It's a bit like an alternate world.

 

[bitbydeath]

Links to disputed speculation that isn't consistent across historians doesn't help you here.

Also you have yet to answer the question, now you are making very strange comparisons to the Mormon church and black people. I get you dislike religion but it appears you aren't capable of discussing this issue without deviating from the topic. You are the one that claimed Jesus was a con man and have yet to provide a reason why. If you won't provide one than fine.

Just trying to convince others on a certain belief that ends with you profiting from it is a con.

All religions are at fault of this.

 

[John Day]

Wait wait, is there any other source of Jesus being somebody in writings OTHER than the bible?

If answer is no... why isn’t he mythology like the greek pantheon?

Edit: I ask because i see many replies implying Jesus is proved fact.

 

[RiccochetJ]

So is this donations outside of their Tithing that they demand of their followers?

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Just trying to convince others on a certain belief that ends with you profiting from it is a con.

All religions are at fault of this.

The Christ scriptures don't have anything in them that encourages this.

The mormon book does.

Not comparable.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Wait wait, is there any other source of Jesus being somebody in writings OTHER than the bible?

If answer is no... why isn’t he mythology like the greek pantheon?

Edit: I ask because i see many replies implying Jesus is proved fact.

Jesus is indisputably a real person there are roman and other writings talking about him, his existence isn't what people are debating it's who is is and what he was claimed to do.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

I do not believe we are going to understand each other. I have answered your question, but you will not accept it.
Do you believe in Jesus? If so, I cannot convince you he is a con man through a NeoGAF post.

You have not provided one thing to prove Jesus was a con man outside a false accusation he did no work and only lived off everyone else which even if true still does not describe the con.

You keep tiptoeing a very simple question that only requires a simple answer, this has nothing to do with a belief in a religion.

The only group you have shown to be con men are people making up their own rules inside their own definition of church. Jesus didn't tithe people money for example.

This isn't a religious debate this is you being inconsistent after making a very specific claim targetting one person. I really don't care about the rest. The only reason why we are still arguing is because you keep adding to the conversation instead of answering the question.

 

[Grinchy]

Wait wait, is there any other source of Jesus being somebody in writings OTHER than the bible?

If answer is no... why isn’t he mythology like the greek pantheon?

Edit: I ask because i see many replies implying Jesus is proved fact.

I can totally believe Jesus was a real person, but my gut tells me he was the world's first street magician and people latched on.

 

[Keihart]

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Not necessarily true, I think most religions serve a purpose wether you think one is more or less legitimate is just your own opinion and that’s fine.

I agree that religion does serve a purpose, I also think that purpose is hijacked by grifters, authoritarians and sociopaths to enrich themselves, control people and cause havoc. I also think that purpose can be better served through community, science, and good government that respects the people.

Yes, those things are ideals, and are corruptible as well, but they at the very least can serve as checks and balances against one another without the dogma and appeal to authority that religion implies.

 

[teh_pwn]

Oh wow someone said something nice about Lutherans. We don't have a protocol for this because I don't think it has ever happened

Y'all aren't as pushy and your churches aren't decorated with looted gold and artifacts. At least the ones I've met.

 

[Shifty1897]

Y'all aren't as pushy and your churches aren't decorated with looted gold and artifacts. At least the ones I've met.

I'll take it! Honestly the whole pushy thing is the wrong way to go about it. If being a Christian makes you a better/happier person, it will show in your everyday actions, and people will ask you about it. It's a much more comfortable conversation than walking up to strangers and telling them they're going to hell or bringing it up out of the blue and making people feel awkward.

 

[bitbydeath]

The Christ scriptures don't have anything in them that encourages this.

The mormon book does.

Not comparable.

So you believe todays religion has become corrupt?

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

So you believe todays religion has become corrupt?

Today?

 

[Blade2.0]

First the Catholics and now Mormons. It's almost like religion is a fucking sham...

 

[bitbydeath]

Today?

Yes, you cited the scriptures as not being about money making compared to today.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Yes, you cited the scriptures as not being about money making compared to today.

I meant I don't get why you think this started with today's religion.

 

[bitbydeath]

I meant I don't get why you think this started with today's religion.

I was just comparing with today but I believe the idea of saving your soul for money has been prevalent for a long time.

 

[Rest]

Just because you don’t think so doesn’t make it true.

It being true makes it true though.

So is this donations outside of their Tithing that they demand of their followers?

The Mormon church runs "charity" farms that use young church members as "volunteer" labor to provide food for poorer members. The thing is, they don't give any of the food to their members. Or food closets. Or other charities.

They sell it for profit.

 

[Yoshi]

Religion is a money making scheme?

 

[Hozzicus]

A general word of advice, If anyone is interested in giving to a charity of some sort I would definitely recommend looking them up on Charity Navigator first to see how transparent and well-run they are before donating. Giving to charity is certainly a good act and something we should encourage for those who have the means to but I think far to often people don't do enough homework before doing so because giving can be a spur of the moment type of thing. As an example of the sort of data that be found on Charity Navigator, here's Doctors without Border's page.

 

[Vicetrailia]

100 billion is a ridiculous amount of money, holy fuck. And they ask people to pay 10% tithing still. Mormons go to poor ass places and ask for tithing, what morally corrupt devils on behalf of the top leaders. Greedy. Btw you won't make it to the celestial kingdom if you don't tith.

 

[DESTROYA]

It being true makes it true though.


The Mormon church runs "charity" farms that use young church members as "volunteer" labor to provide food for poorer members. The thing is, they don't give any of the food to their members. Or food closets. Or other charities.

They sell it for profit.

Speak for yourself man! Having a little faith never hurt anyone.

 

[AV]

Speak for yourself man! Having a little faith never hurt anyone.

Preacher asked his followers to prove their faith by drinking rat poison

He mixed a solution of Rattex in front of the congregation

metro.co.uk

 

[DESTROYA]

Preacher asked his followers to prove their faith by drinking rat poison

He mixed a solution of Rattex in front of the congregation

metro.co.uk

Every religion has their fair share of nut jobs I’m not denying that but they are mostly there to guide people down the right path.