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The Official Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney (4) Thread

Wizpig

Member
Oh, also, here's a :lol contradiction from Apollo Justice Case 2, read it only if you finished Case 2.

Panties in the Pipe

Shoving panties (or anything) into a car's exhaust pipe won't actually disable it; that's just an urban myth. Just ask Mythbusters! (-urutapu)

Did you guys actually knew this?
I sure didn't.
I thought it was true.
 

Wizpig

Member
Shahadan said:
I'm so tired of people calling "plot holes" their lack of attention during the game.
I'm SO quoting this.
Everytime an AA game is out there seems to be this "race to find the plot holes so we can say the developers are overrated" but mostly it's just a lack of attention from the players.
 

Link1110

Member
Wizpig said:
I'm SO quoting this.
Everytime an AA game is out there seems to be this "race to find the plot holes so we can say the developers are overrated" but mostly it's just a lack of attention from the players.
Well, there are a few oversights, or unexplained things that have explanations, but I haven't noticed any major plot holes.

4-2
The "kid" keeps sending Phoenix Nickel Samurai DVDs. If the show continued after Matt Engarde was convicted (as someone on another forum suggested when I poinmted this out as a contradiction,) say that, otherwise it looks like Maya or Pearl thinks Phoenix wants to watch Matt Engarde.

3-5
Maya summons Dahlia so Pearl can't, but Pearl is more powerful than Maya, so how is this possible? Oh, that's right, we forgot to come out and say that the second Misty was killed, Maya became the master, and more powerful than Pearl.

Just a bit more fleshing out would solve these kinds of issues.
 

Wizpig

Member
Link1110 said:
Well, there are a few oversights, or unexplained things that have explanations, but I haven't noticed any major plot holes.

4-2
The "kid" keeps sending Phoenix Nickel Samurai DVDs. If the show continued after Matt Engarde was convicted (as someone on another forum suggested when I poinmted this out as a contradiction,) say that, otherwise it looks like Maya or Pearl thinks Phoenix wants to watch Matt Engarde.

3-5
Maya summons Dahlia so Pearl can't, but Pearl is more powerful than Maya, so how is this possible? Oh, that's right, we forgot to come out and say that the second Misty was killed, Maya became the master, and more powerful than Pearl.

Just a bit more fleshing out would solve these kinds of issues.
By the way i want to point out one thing that's been bugging me and it's surely "lack of attention" from myself.
It's about Case 4
Remember how there are are 3 Portraits regarding Apollo's first 3 cases.

But how did they get done? I mean, Vera Misham would never go out home, right?
Did they get made by Drew? And if yes, when did he start "following" Apollo? and his reason is...?
 

jvalioli

Member
Wizpig said:
By the way i want to point out one thing that's been bugging me and it's surely "lack of attention" from myself.
It's about Case 4
Remember how there are are 3 Portraits regarding Apollo's first 3 cases.

But how did they get done? I mean, Vera Misham would never go out home, right?
Did they get made by Drew? And if yes, when did he start "following" Apollo? and his reason is...?
They were drawn by Drew Misham. After ruining Phoenix's life, he started following news about him and eventually heard about a new lawyer at the Wright law offices.
 

Sloane

Banned
Regarding plot holes, case 4-4:

Gavin gave the nail polish to Vera seven years ago, right? And she didn't use it until now? Plus, shouldn't he have noticed that his plan (the stamp, the polish) didn't work back then? Shouldn't he have tried to kill them differently? Did I miss something?
 

Mirimar

Member
Link1110 said:
Well, there are a few oversights, or unexplained things that have explanations, but I haven't noticed any major plot holes.


3-5
Maya summons Dahlia so Pearl can't, but Pearl is more powerful than Maya, so how is this possible? Oh, that's right, we forgot to come out and say that the second Misty was killed, Maya became the master, and more powerful than Pearl.

Just a bit more fleshing out would solve these kinds of issues.

Uhh, about 3-5, they explain why
Pearls couldn't summon Dahlia
, it was mentioned quite prominently during the case.
She couldn't because Misty summoned Dahlia before Pearls could get the chance. Afterwards, Maya summons Dahlia inside the cave to stop Pearls from the summon after Misty dies
 

jvalioli

Member
Sloane said:
Regarding plot holes, case 4-4:

Gavin gave the nail polish to Vera seven years ago, right? And she didn't use it until now? Plus, shouldn't he have noticed that his plan (the stamp, the polish) didn't work back then? Shouldn't he have tried to kill them differently? Did I miss something?
She only uses it when she goes outside and only bites her nails when she is extremely nervous. The Misham's moved to a secluded area to give the appearance that they disappeared, but Kristoph should have been suspicious when he didn't get the stamp back.
 

Link1110

Member
Mirimar said:
Uhh, about 3-5, they explain why
Pearls couldn't summon Dahlia
, it was mentioned quite prominently during the case.
She couldn't because Misty summoned Dahlia before Pearls could get the chance. Afterwards, Maya summons Dahlia inside the cave to stop Pearls from the summon after Misty dies
Yes, but they don't say why
Pearl couldn't call Dahlia away from Maya if Pearl is more powerful. The explanation above has to be assumed.
 

Panda

Member
Link1110 said:
Yes, but they don't say why
Pearl couldn't call Dahlia away from Maya if Pearl is more powerful. The explanation above has to be assumed.

It's been a long while since that case, but I got the impression that once someone has channeled a spirit, no one else could channel the same spirit regardless of the channeler's power.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Panda said:
It's been a long while since that case, but I got the impression that once someone has channeled a spirit, no one else could channel the same spirit regardless of the channeler's power.
Bingo.
 
Sloane said:
But that doesn't make sense. Pretty much the whole game is about Phoenix, not Apollo. We learn almost nothing about him, his story hasn't even really started. In theory, that'd be okay. If Capcom wanted to finish Phoenix' story first, then fine. But you can't finish Phoenix' story without having at least Maya, Pearls and Edgeworth around. And I'm not sure, it will work in the future.

Personally, I think it would make most sense to consider Apollo Justice a spin-off and continue both series - Phoenix Wright and Apollo Justice - in the future. Yes, it's called Ace Attorney but you know what I mean. Considering how popular Gyakuten Saiban is in Japan, that should be an option.

while continuing both series may appease to pw 1-3 fans, it will only complicate the timeline because there will be 2 parallel alternate universe going on. new comer will have a very hard time following the story if they make it 2 separate series.

I think pw1-3 fans should just let those game to rest, pw1-3 is a great game and imo have a really nice conclusion regarding backstories and things like that.

if fans really can't accept Apollo Justice as direct sequel to PW1-3 then just think of the game as set in alternate universe. and although the games focus a lot on phoenix wright, it's not a complete waste of time for new characters. I think of it more as a setup for the next ace attorney game. we know
Apollo and Trucy are siblings, their mother still alive, Klavier has evil twin brother, and we'll have a new court system for the next game with the addition of jury.
 

AniHawk

Member
Well I just finished it yesterday, and I enjoyed it a lot, although Pureauthor makes a lot of good points. I think what I liked best about this game was that it flowed better than any other in the series.
 

jrricky

Banned
Umm, why is this game so friggin awesome already. I picked it up today and just finished the first case and I am literal floored that the game started off with this kind of bang (and full of mysteries already.)

I love the new additions:
Lie indicating eye apollo has (is this a replacement for the magatama?)
Crime scene recreation.
Full on 3d item view

Amazing addition to the series so far. Well, on to case 2.

Oh, one question before I go, I always wondered what the meaning is behind every single ace attorney chapter tile has "Turnabout" tacked on.
 
jrricky said:
Oh, one question before I go, I always wondered what the meaning is behind every single ace attorney chapter tile has "Turnabout" tacked on.

Because they "turn about" the guilty verdict to an innocent.
 
i think it would be a really nice twist if payne made a come back in the next game. have him actually win the first case and have a strong presence like edgeworth. id love to see that, i think it would be a good addition to the story
 

MechaX

Member
Sloane said:
Regarding plot holes, case 4-4:

Gavin gave the nail polish to Vera seven years ago, right? And she didn't use it until now? Plus, shouldn't he have noticed that his plan (the stamp, the polish) didn't work back then? Shouldn't he have tried to kill them differently? Did I miss something?

Gavin gave Vera the nail polish for whenever Vera would need to "go outside". Of course, going outside probably wouldn't constitute as doing a chore outside, but actually embarking on a sort of task (IE, being held in a trial). While it's unlikely, it is still plausible that Vera never needed to do anything significant outside of her home, and subsequently wouldn't need to use her nail polish.

As for the plan, it seems to be the case that Gavin is hiding some pretty important details behind the entire situation (Not just with Vera and Drew, but also with Zak). In this sense, Apollo and Klaiver couldn't do a thing to decisively connect Gavin to the incident or the true nature behind his "time bombs", but only that Vera was innocent of murder.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
jrricky said:
Oh, one question before I go, I always wondered what the meaning is behind every single ace attorney chapter tile has "Turnabout" tacked on.

The original Japanese title is "Gyakuten Saiban", or "Turnabout Courtroom". Every chapter of every game in the series has "Gyakuten" in its title.

I believe the sole exception to this rule is the additional case added to the first game in the DS edition.

In other random thoughts, I hope the next game makes the
Jurist system
part of the gameplay. New features for the win.
 

Nemesis_

Member
jrricky said:
(is this a replacement for the magatama?)
Yes.
But you play as Phoenix mainly in the final case and use the Psyche-Lock + Magatama combo too.

jrricky said:
Crime scene recreation.
Kinda stops happening. It was an awesome feature too, I don't know why there was "less".

jrricky said:
I always wondered what the meaning is behind every single ace attorney chapter tile has "Turnabout" tacked on.
Apparently, the original Japanese name for the Ace Attorney series was "Gyakuten Saiban" which translates literally to "Turnabout Trial". The addition of Turnabout is just a nod to the title of the series, I guess.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Only thing I'm not liking so far is the fact that you can't go around and present characters' profiles anymore... seems more limited now with only court records being allowed to be shown.
 

Shahadan

Member
Dash Kappei said:
Only thing I'm not liking so far is the fact that you can't go around and present characters' profiles anymore... seems more limited now with only court records being allowed to be shown.

This, annoyed me too. But actually at some points you can present profiles. The game choose when now, that's all. And that's sad :(
 
So, what characters do you all suspect will be in GS5 from GS4? (spoiler your responses, obviously, just in case >_>)

Me, I'm guessing...

Wocky
(Episode 2)
Lamiroir
(Episode 3)
Valant Gramarye
(Episode 3)
Kristoph Gavin
(Episode 4)

Just seems pretty logical to me.
 

NotWii

Banned
Finished this a few weeks ago.
Great game, but the last case was a huge let down since it let you figure out everything from the investigations, there were no courtroom surprises.

Oh yeah, I'd totally bone Ema Skye, for science!
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Wii said:
Finished this a few weeks ago.
Great game, but the last case was a huge let down since it let you figure out everything from the investigations, there were no courtroom surprises.

Oh yeah, I'd totally bone Ema Skye, for science!

SAMPLE MY GOODS!!
 

Wizpig

Member
Dash Kappei said:
Only thing I'm not liking so far is the fact that you can't go around and present characters' profiles anymore... seems more limited now with only court records being allowed to be shown.
Yes, it's the only letdown i had from the game.
 
IrrelevantNotch said:
Can someone tell me: Does this game have an all-new original storyline, or do you need to play Phoenix Wright 1-3 in order to "get it"?
The answer to your question is both yes AND no.
Brand new cast but you'll appreciate it a heck of a lot more if you play the PW titles first. (And make sure to play them in order.)
 
B-Rad Lascelle said:
The answer to your question is both yes AND no.
Brand new cast but you'll appreciate it a heck of a lot more if you play the PW titles first. (And make sure to play them in order.)

Actually, this game is probably the easiest in the series to pick up and play if you haven't played the original. There only a few cameos from the previous games. However, I reccomend playing them in order. The experience of starting Ace Attorney without any knowledge of the series is a wondrous thing.
 
Nemesis556 said:
Yes.
Apparently, the original Japanese name for the Ace Attorney series was "Gyakuten Saiban" which translates literally to "Turnabout Trial". The addition of Turnabout is just a nod to the title of the series, I guess.
I think in the instruction manual for the first game it says the actual trial system is called turnabout something or another.


Anyway, I'm halfway through the final case in the game, and I'm definitly not liking this game as much as the previous 3. I like the characters just fine, but they just don't click as well as the old gang did. I think its because I'm not as interested in the overall story of Apollo and Trucy like I was for Edgeworth/Phoenix/Maya in the first game, Fran/Edgeworth/Pearl/Maya in the second, and Phoenix/Mia/Maya/Godot in the last game.

I think another part of it is that Phoenix was the character through which we saw the world and he had a definite connection to most of those characters. He cared about them and almost by proxy, we cared about them. The same effect isn't there for Apollo. Other than Trucy, who does he have a relationship that he seems to care about? Phoenix supposedly plays the mentor role, but they don't have nearly as good of a relationship or back and forth that Phoenix had with Gumshoe and Edgeworth and even Fran.

Overall, I like the new gameplay mechanics added in, but I think the writers either need to make this story told through Phoenix's eyes and bring back the Feys' and Edgeworth, or they need to have something happen to Phoenix so that Apollo can develop relationships with the characters of Ace Attorney 5.




My final example is going back and playing 1-2. The case is relatively easy, but because of who was killed, I get immense satisfaction from nailing the criminal. There's about 4 or 5 characters in the prequels I feel the same way about. So far, the only one I'd care about if they offed is Trucy, and that'll never happen. That just shows that the connection hasn't been made with the new cast yet.
 

Shahadan

Member
They need to get rid of Phoenix in GS5, but will they do it? He is popular and all. If I recall correctly, he was originally not planned at all in GS4, but this was changed to satisfy people.

Or maybe they need to make him disappear like Edgeworth through all the game and reappear in special OMG moments like him. I don't really know. Well, we will have a starting answer next month I suppose.
 

AniHawk

Member
Shahadan said:
They need to get rid of Phoenix in GS5, but will they do it? He is popular and all. If I recall correctly, he was originally not planned at all in GS4, but this was changed to satisfy people.

Or maybe they need to make him disappear like Edgeworth through all the game and reappear in special OMG moments like him. I don't really know. Well, we will have a starting answer next month I suppose.

It's gonna be hard to get rid of him since he's Trucy's "father".

I suppose murdering him could always work.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
A Link to the Snitch said:
So, what characters do you all suspect will be in GS5 from GS4? (spoiler your responses, obviously, just in case >_>)

Me, I'm guessing...

Wocky
(Episode 2)
Lamiroir
(Episode 3)
Valant Gramarye
(Episode 3)
Kristoph Gavin
(Episode 4)

Just seems pretty logical to me.
Brushal will most DEFINATELY be back. It's just... inevitable.

Seriously doubt the one you mentioned from Episode 4 will be back. Said person's story has been told.

Edit: Umm... memory mixed Misham and Brushal into Brisham. Whoops.
 

Nemesis_

Member
Drew Misham was the best character design. I dunno why I just really liked the way he essentially looked like a paintbrush :lol :lol :lol

ani-ese.gif
 
Rez>You said:
Brushal will most DEFINATELY be back. It's just... inevitable.

Seriously doubt the one you mentioned from Episode 4 will be back. Said person's story has been told.

Edit: Umm... memory mixed Misham and Brushal into Brisham. Whoops.

But can't he still be relevant? I could see him being one of those kinds of characters that are evil, but recur throughout the series.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
A Link to the Snitch said:
So, what characters do you all suspect will be in GS5 from GS4? (spoiler your responses, obviously, just in case >_>)

Me, I'm guessing...

Wocky
(Episode 2)
Lamiroir
(Episode 3)
Valant Gramarye
(Episode 3)
Kristoph Gavin
(Episode 4)

Just seems pretty logical to me.

I think that
Vera would be more likely since at the end of the game she got out of her fear of the outside world. That would lead to interesting exchanges as she becomes a painter on her own terms.
 
Hcoregamer00 said:
I think that
Vera would be more likely since at the end of the game she got out of her fear of the outside world. That would lead to interesting exchanges as she becomes a painter on her own terms.

You know, we should make a Gyakuten Saiban thread - basically one that we can discuss the current games and the future games, without having to worry about spoiling anyone. That'd be nice.
 
Hcoregamer00 said:
I think that
Vera would be more likely since at the end of the game she got out of her fear of the outside world. That would lead to interesting exchanges as she becomes a painter on her own terms.

Remind me again why people like her. The only reason she's
not the worst defendant in PW4 is because, amazingly, Machi was even worse.
 
AniHawk said:
It's gonna be hard to get rid of him since he's Trucy's "father".

I suppose murdering him could always work.
Don't even joke about that. :(
Hcoregamer00 said:
I think that
Vera would be more likely since at the end of the game she got out of her fear of the outside world. That would lead to interesting exchanges as she becomes a painter on her own terms.
I hope she returns.
 
obijkenobi said:
I think in the instruction manual for the first game it says the actual trial system is called turnabout something or another.


Anyway, I'm halfway through the final case in the game, and I'm definitly not liking this game as much as the previous 3. I like the characters just fine, but they just don't click as well as the old gang did. I think its because I'm not as interested in the overall story of Apollo and Trucy like I was for Edgeworth/Phoenix/Maya in the first game, Fran/Edgeworth/Pearl/Maya in the second, and Phoenix/Mia/Maya/Godot in the last game.

I think another part of it is that Phoenix was the character through which we saw the world and he had a definite connection to most of those characters. He cared about them and almost by proxy, we cared about them. The same effect isn't there for Apollo. Other than Trucy, who does he have a relationship that he seems to care about? Phoenix supposedly plays the mentor role, but they don't have nearly as good of a relationship or back and forth that Phoenix had with Gumshoe and Edgeworth and even Fran.

Overall, I like the new gameplay mechanics added in, but I think the writers either need to make this story told through Phoenix's eyes and bring back the Feys' and Edgeworth, or they need to have something happen to Phoenix so that Apollo can develop relationships with the characters of Ace Attorney 5.




My final example is going back and playing 1-2. The case is relatively easy, but because of who was killed, I get immense satisfaction from nailing the criminal. There's about 4 or 5 characters in the prequels I feel the same way about. So far, the only one I'd care about if they offed is Trucy, and that'll never happen. That just shows that the connection hasn't been made with the new cast yet.

Apollo has plenty of close friends. Phoenix, Klavier (well, not close, but he's pretty much on good terms with him and they are pretty civil with each other out of court), Ema, Trucy, etc. We wouldn't think that Lotta could be considered one of Phoenix's friends, but the game clearly establishes her as such.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
Pureauthor said:
Remind me again why people like her. The only reason she's
not the worst defendant in PW4 is because, amazingly, Machi was even worse.

That tends to happen when a person gives testimony for 1 turn.

It doesn't help that Case 4 was a huge mess that focused only on the fall of Phoenix Wright that doesn't even have a satisfying multiple part final trial.
 

zoku88

Member
Nemesis556 said:
Drew Misham was the best character design. I dunno why I just really liked the way he essentially looked like a paintbrush :lol :lol :lol
Ironic since he seemed to have little talent for actual painting.
Pureauthor said:
Valant's
in jail.
Why would he be in jail?
 
Wow. Just finished the game. Either the best or the second best in the series (next to PW1), as far as I'm concerned. Even though I had to waste time with those damned
megatama events...though at least it had a button this time!
.

I thought Phoenix's portrayal was fine; I think
the combination of parenting & a bonafide career killing loss
toughened him up into the kind of guy who
needs to out-think his opponent, rather than waiting to overturn at trial. He has his own "family" now, his own "connections", and doesn't need to weigh the game down with a billion cameos just to make it through something.

Unless you count
the Blue Badger. Whew! :p

The final case had some really awesome twists, and it just felt like the game as a whole had a lot more design attention paid to it than the rest of the series. Bravo.
 
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