I like Collateral, don't get me wrong. Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx did very well.
But it just didn't live up to expectations. It had good action and great dialogue, but I suppose that the pacing was a bit jaggy and the ending was complete crap.
I wanted Cruise to snap Foxx in two, but instead, he just died on a freakin' subway.
That said, it was a good movie. Worth the once over, at very least.
Collateral was 80-85% shot digitally, using the Sony/Panavision 24p HDW-F900 and the Thomson Viper FilmStream. Most interiors were done on 35mm film using the Kodak Vision 500T 5279 and Vision2 500T 5218. The Panaflex Millennium XL was also used, but I'm not exactly sure for what.
Cruise was very consistent in playing the Vincent character. In other movies the character might've turned into an angry wimp who was taking out his fury on the world because he had a shitty childhood, or a sobbing pussy who only wanted his dad to say he loved him. NOT VINCENT.
I was able to count two times where Vincent let his guard down.
The first is when he's in the club talking to the Jazz player. From the beginning Vincents strategy was to drag out the conversation long enough until everyone else had left the club. Makes sense, he doesn't want any witnesses nor does he want to waste his bullets on innocent bystandards. But during the conversation he started to like the jazz player -- a big mistake. Of course this doesn't deter him from doing the job, but when Vincent was arranging the dead jazz players body to look like he was asleep, Cruise's eyes gave us a glimpse of a Vincent who would have preferred NOT to kill the jazz player. That isn't to say he felt sad and began to question his decision. If given the option Vincent would have preferred not to kill the jazz player. However Vincent didn't have an option, he was just doing his job. And immediately Vincent's eyes transitioned back into that beady, snake eyed stare we'd grown accustomed to. I doubt he gave that jazz player a second thought afterwards.
The second time was when Vincent didn't take Max's threat seriously and ended up getting shot. Vincent KNEW Max. In their conversations Vincent would make assumptions about Max that always turned out to be true, and the only one he guessed wrong caused him to get shot. But I guarantee had Vincent known that the girl Max had told him about was Jada Pinket Smith, Vincent would've turned around to shoot Max, then finish his clip on Jada. No, strike that, he would've used Max until he got to his destination, shot Max, then go upstairs after Jada. But Vincent didn't foresee one of his targets being Max's love interest. And it cost him.
Enough of my rambling. All i know is, it would be a crime if all the attention went to Foxx's breakout role. Cruise never betrayed Vincent's character which he could have easily done by overacting or whatever. The guy was one cold motherfucker throughout the entire movie.
Wow. I'm speechless after seeing that movie. So awesome.
"You tell him if he ever tried to pull that shit again you are going to shove this cab up his fat ass"
I think the best scene might have been when Vincent owned those 2 guys in the alley that took his briefcase. Just the way he wasted no time in killing people was somewhat refreshing from the old "Insert witty parting line here".
Well, I just got back from watching Michael Mann make almost every other movie released this summer look like a joke.
Before I start spoiling, I'll say that after the movie, the audience sat there in stunned silence for a couple of seconds, and then a friend of mine said, "WELL, THAT WAS DULL! I KEPT WAITING FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN!!" Then we all laughed nervously and went for drinks to calm our nerves.
Anyhow:
--Tom Cruise was good, but this was Jamie Foxx's movie.
--That said, Tom Cruise was undisputably fucking terrifying.
("Yo, homey! Is that my briefcase?")
For Miles Davis fans, the scene in the jazz club was AWESOME. A bit of a gloss on it for those who aren't--when they go into the club, Daniel's band is playing "Spanish Key", from Bitches Brew. The cool thing about the conversation following after which Vincent shoots Daniel is that, technically, Vincent and Daniel were both right about where Miles learned jazz--he did go to Juilliard, and he did "study" under Charlie Parker. But a true Miles fan would know that Juilliard was really just an excuse fror Miles to go to New York so he could hang out in clubs--he really learned the craft from Parker.
It wasn't just the action that rocked, but the dialogue as well: I could have listened to four hours of Jamie Foxx shooting the shit with passengers while driving around in a cab, and over the course of the movie Vincent and Max became truly well-developed characters, of the kind that increasingly rare in mainstream movies now. But my favorite dialogue bits would have to be
Daniel telling the Miles Davis story
and
Felix telling Max the story about Santa Claus and Black Peter
. And Foxx:
"It doesn't matter anymore! I've just got a badass sociopath in the back seat! You know what, Vincent? Go fuck yourself! ... What? Didn't you have your seat belt on?"
Mann wasn't credited as a screenwriter, but too much of that sounded like the dialogue in Heat for him not to have written the conversations in the cab, at the very least.
As far as action sequences--I liked the fact that there wasn't really a showcase action sequence, but that the intensity was spread out over the entire movie. However, there were a couple of standout parts: the
final chase scene
was pretty intense, but
the shootout in the Asian nightclub
was absolutely INSANE. Shot after shot in that part of the movie was pure genius.
The only minor complaint that I have about the movie, which isn't even a complaint so much as an observation, is that I had a feeling that the original screenplay might've had some flaws. Without such great direction, writing, and acting, plot twists like
the cops mistaking Max for Vincent
would have seemed ridiculous. But somehow Mann was able to sell that.
Collateral is the best time I've had in a theater this summer, with the possible exception of Harry Potter. Definitely far better than I, Robot, and even better than Spider-Man 2. Yes, THAT'S WHAT I SAID.
I think the best scene might have been when Vincent owned those 2 guys in the alley that took his briefcase. Just the way he wasted no time in killing people was somewhat refreshing from the old "Insert witty parting line here".
I'm seeing it tonight. With all these good reactions, I'm highly anticipating it. It will definately be interesting seeing Jamie Foxx actually try to act, from the sounds of it he does well.
Saw this last night and I loved it. The wife was disappointed that there wasn't more action, but I thought it was perfect. It's definietly a dialogue movie like Heat and Pulp Fiction. The action scenes it did have kicked ass. Tom Cruise really should play the villian more often. His was damn near perfect in this movie. Jamie Foxx was good also, he kept it funny and seriously at the same time. I don't know where all this talk about him not being able to act comes from, have people not seen Ali and Any Given Sunday? This movie is a definite DVD buy for me.
I just got back from seeing it. It was pretty good, not great, but good. It was definately entertaining, with good dialogue, good acting, and it did keep me on the edge of my seat pretty well. It pulled off the main idea well, but not exceptionally. The story line went right where I expected it to go though, there weren't any big twists. From the trailer, you might be able to expect what direction it will take.
There were some clever parts though,
like when Vincent makes Max go into the club pretending to be him, when they visited Max's mother, and I thought the Jazz scene was pretty cool.
The rest just seemed a little run of the mill, nothing you wouldn't expect to see in a movie like this.
All in all, I'd say it was pretty good. 6 or 7 out of 10. Although, this isn't normally the type of movie I'm into, murder thrillers aren't quite my cup of tea, so don't take my opinion too seriously.
Saw it tonight and really enjoyed it. I really dug the whole mood, from the visual aesthetic to the music. I liked how it alternated between mellow periods and then exciting moments. I was really feeling the mellow times; they had a real introspective feel that I find comes sorta naturally with driving at night and I like how the movie captured that. The darkness and isolation just seems to put a focus on internal issues more than everything that's going on in the world. I think I'm going to pick up the soundtrack tomorrow; it's just filled with really great songs that aren't necessarily similar in any way but really come together as a whole. This'll be one of the few movies I've seen this year that I'll pick up on DVD.
One little montage I really dug was when
the FBI guys, Max and Fanning were all driving to Fever at the same time. It was played really mellow; very differently than most directors would do it. It had a really cool 'calm before the storm' kinda vibe going.
Saw it tonight, it was fantastic. Totally loved it. The end was a bit iffy but the rest of the movie was so amazingly good that I'd definitely still give it 5 out of 5.
PartlyCloudlike said:
The second time was when Vincent didn't take Max's threat seriously and ended up getting shot. Vincent KNEW Max. In their conversations Vincent would make assumptions about Max that always turned out to be true, and the only one he guessed wrong caused him to get shot. But I guarantee had Vincent known that the girl Max had told him about was Jada Pinket Smith, Vincent would've turned around to shoot Max, then finish his clip on Jada. No, strike that, he would've used Max until he got to his destination, shot Max, then go upstairs after Jada. But Vincent didn't foresee one of his targets being Max's love interest. And it cost him.
That's the thing though, Vincent knew about her. Remember when Lenny called for Max he checked it, saw the DA office card, and went into character, and then later on in the movie he asks Max if he is going to call that girl, saying that things happen and that he may not get another chance to, telling him to call her right then. That's what I loved about this movie, everything was such a tight package, everything towards the end was referenced to elsewhere in the movie.
I think that while the end portion chase was tense, it did leave a bit to be desired. It dragged on for a bit longer than I would have liked. I did not notice that Vincent was shot in the chest at the end there though, my friends had to point it out. What was cool about the ending was that it was like what Vincent had described earlier in the movie... a man had died on the train and road around for six hours before anyone noticed he had died. Again, touching on something that was referenced earlier.
I agree with many others in this topic, the dialogue was my favorite part of the movie. The first scene with Jada alone was just so cool. Two sly characters just picking each other's brains.
Something my friend had pointed out, and I agree with, it's like Max had saved Jada twice in the movie. Obviously at the end, but at the beginning it was a bit more subtle. He held her in the cab for a bit and they talked for a while and then she goes back and give him the card taking up just another moment. And as she walks in the entrance Vincent walks out. Perhaps she was the first target, but Vince didn't find her there so he moved on...?
Fantastic fantastic movie. As others have stated, I loved the understated action. No fucking bullet time, no large explosions, nothing of that sort. Just bullets, stabbings, and fisticuffs. I can't decide what was more badass, the scene in the club, or the scene where he fuckin killed those guys that tried to take his briefcase.
Tom was fucking AWESOME as this kick ass action anti-hero. Just the way he moved seemed so proefessional. Jamie Foxx was even better. I'm tempted to say that he should at least be nominated for an Oscar with this role.
Saw it tonight, it was fantastic. Totally loved it. The end was a bit iffy but the rest of the movie was so amazingly good that I'd definitely still give it 5 out of 5.
That's the thing though, Vincent knew about her. Remember when Lenny called for Max he checked it, saw the DA office card, and went into character, and then later on in the movie he asks Max if he is going to call that girl, saying that things happen and that he may not get another chance to, telling him to call her right then. That's what I loved about this movie, everything was such a tight package, everything towards the end was referenced to elsewhere in the movie.
That's right, I completely forgot about that scene.
The reason I thought Vincent didn't know was because he lost the tablet, so he didn't know who the last target would be. But for a target as big as a DA, I'm sure he knew beforehand. That explains the foreshadowing when Vincent told Max to call her because he might not get another chance. Awesome movie!
edit: Another reason why I thought Vincent didn't know was because I assumed when he received that suitcase from Jason Statham it was the first time he find out about the targets. One of those deals where the hitman doesn't know about his targets until the day of the job. But I don't think that happened after you mentioned that scene. He was probably briefed about the whole operation which included the DA target.
I caught the screening last Tuesday, but totally forgot about this thread. Awesome, but subtle movie. It's not the type of movie that is going to have the high school kids running out screaming about, so I hate to hype it so hard and disappoint 90% of gaf.
But, I'll do it anyways. Michael Mann rules and he really showed his stuff here, awesome movie. Go see it.
anyone that has a problem with the ending needs to watch it again. that was what had to happen, the coyote scene in the cab tipped it off that max had reached vincent and vincent was finally seeing what he really was. and prior to that, vincent said 'if we both make it through tonight...', that was the only moment in the entire movie that he showed any doubt at all with himself. i was a bit lost on that line until i thought about it after the movie was over.
also, can't wait to see the commentary to find out if cruise really took that spill on the chair on accident and recovered like that and they just kept it in. he always does his own stunts, so im wondering if that was one of those nice mistakes.
also, can't wait to see the commentary to find out if cruise really took that spill on the chair on accident and recovered like that and they just kept it in. he always does his own stunts, so im wondering if that was one of those nice mistakes.
Just got in from the movie.. enjoyed it big time... Jamie was excellent and Tom... Tom was a f'n monster... I have some misgivings about that final sequence, but overall loved the movie.
Major disappointment for me. First, the good points :
- Cruise's character Vincent is one of the best characters I've ever seen in a movie. It's a wonder why there hasn't been more like him in Hollywood.
- Including Audioslave in the soundtrack is more than okay in my book.
-
The tripping on the chair moment is the coolest thing. And had to be unscripted by the way.
Disappointments :
1- The ending is messed up. Everyone expects Max to save the girl, naturally, but come on. Not only does he get into the building, save the girl, escape from Vincent, he ends up killing him too? Oh no he didn't! Although the reference flashback about the unknown guy dead in the subway is a nice touch. But still man, not like that!
2 - Why didn't Foxx shoot Vincent to death after he incapacitated him with his first shot in the neck/ear?
3 - Why did Vincent save Foxx in the nightclub, when we all know he would have killed him later anyway? Is there supposed to be a message about Vincent's humanity, when it has already been established there isn't one?
4 - Max flipping out in the hospital is one of the most 'wtf' moments I've ever witnessed. It was a nice scene. Tense, fast, whatever. But seriously, wtf. Why would you do that? I'm pretty sure they struggled to find a way to get the script to advance and so they made him flip out at some random time.
5 - Not enough development on Vincent. Sure, we got the thugs getting the shit kicked out of them. The Asian nightclub scene. The anti-climactic ending. But Vincent is the most badass character to come out of Hollywood since The first Matrix's Neo. I needed more of his pissed off-ness. And there was much room for it too.
I think you'll come around after seeing it again. The only disappointment of yours I agree with is
the one about max grabbing the bag in the hospital. I'm not 'getting' a lot of people's disappointment with the ending. About the only thing more I could have asked for would have been for Max to take a bullet somewhere. But, I honestly don't know if Vincent was even trying to hit him at that point.
Saw this on Sunday night and LOVED it. Very awesome movie. I didn't know much about Jamie Foxx beforehand (I don't live in the US ) so I totally bought him as a "serious" actor, and Tom Cruise was excellent.
More detailed, spoiler-filled thoughts...
I agree with the complaints about the ending. Don't get me wrong here, it was still good, but for a movie that felt quite unconventional throughout going suddenly to your stock-standard hide-and-seek/relentless chase scene was somewhat disappointing. I also didn't like the two times Max shot Vincent. The first time... after seeing Vincent TOTALLY WASTE those two guys in the alley (which was so fucking cool) it's stupid that he couldn't take care of Max. The second time... well... as Vincent says, he does this for a living. Max didn't even know how to fire a gun. We saw how accurate Vincent's shooting was in the hospital morgue so why was he totally unable to hit Max? It wasn't like he obviously underestimated him like the first time he got shot.
Those things bother me more than they would because I loved the movie. I loved the pacing. I loved the style (haha, the top-down cab shots looked so GTA). I loved the characters. I love the tone. I just love this movie.
One of the reviews noted that the cool thing about this film was the way that each of the "encounters" could have been underplayed, or comedic, or otherwise screwed. But they were basically cool little side stories that were just as compelling to watch as the "real movie". I liked the scene with his mother in hospital, and I have no problems with him "freaking out" -- in my mind it just looks like he was SO uncomfortable and SO scared for himself/his mother that he had to take action, and he finally snapped. That works for me. Anyway, the hospital scene could easily have become a big comedic segment with the mother embarassing her son, just as the scene where Max impersonates Vincent could be one of those cookie-cutter segments in any other film where someone bumbles and slips their way through a tough situation. It wasn't. It was well shot, well acted, and they make a big difference to the plot (rather than being comic relief).
4 - Max flipping out in the hospital is one of the most 'wtf' moments I've ever witnessed. It was a nice scene. Tense, fast, whatever. But seriously, wtf. Why would you do that? I'm pretty sure they struggled to find a way to get the script to advance and so they made him flip out at some random time.
That scene fits into the general pattern that Max has of trying to screw Vincent over at every opportunity, even if it won't necessarily stop Vincent from killing. Max figures out that there's something special about the briefcase from what Vincent did after the second hit. When Max sees his mother getting emotionally close to Vincent (and Vincent coming close to getting ready to out him as a liar about having a limousine business, which is one of the most important elements of Max's life), he suddenly decides that he needs to do what he can to get Vincent away from her, and destroying the briefcase is a way of killing two birds with one stone. Even after he has to go get the replacement workups because he destroyed the originals, Max still screws Vincent over by posing as Vincent and negotiating a 35% discount on Vincent's fee.
Interesting discussion about the ending. Allow me to throw in my reasoning for it --
Consider a couple of things about what happened during the course of the ending and there are a couple of things worth mentioning. The first of which is the fact that they were in an accident in the cab. They mentioned this, but Vincent wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Though he was the first to get out and get running, I'm positive he's suffering a serious concussion and his equillibrium is totaly screwed up. Sure, he has the drive and ambition to finish the job, but even football players are taken out of games if they suffer concussions so it's obviously got to be affecting him greatly.
With that being said, I don't think him tripping on the chair was meant to show that he was human or fallible, though both apply in this case, but to show that he really wasn't on top of his game anymore. Plus the fact that he was shot -- something he never concieved Max would do. Sure, Vincent does this for a living, but after getting shot, losing a good deal of blood, and surviving a pretty horrendous car crash without wearing a seatbelt, I'm sure any of us would have pretty much keeled over and rested for a couple of days.
The lights were flickering on and off on that subway at times, and once the gunfight started the lights flickered off again. So that's something else that went against Vincent.
The lights were flickering on and off on that subway at times, and once the gunfight started the lights flickered off again. So that's something else that went against Vincent.
Vincent has been doing this for over 6 years... I find it hard to believe he's never had to shoot in a light flickering situation
Instead I offer this reasoning.
You know how Vincent has really gotten Max to evaluate his life per the various conversations they'd had? Well Max had a few things to say that I think really hit Vincent... and sure Vincent was ready to do his job and kill Angela was that her name? Because she was part of the contract, but I think Max's conversations with him had really gotten to him. I don't know that Vincent really wanted to kill Max. Sure you could say that the comment "if we both get through this alive" was just a throwaway comment. Especially considering during the police converation we hear that before Vincent has killed his drivers, which of course for obvious reasons makes sense, but I just didn't get the feeling that Vincent near the end really had much interest in killing Max.
In regards to the wolves, what did people think of that?
I thought the symbology was a case of showing animals that are now... out of there environment somehow applied to Vincent?
as far as the wolves, and Max reaching Vincent goes.. I totally agree. Each character had their effects on the other, thats the whole point of the movie. Take two extremes and grow them towards each other. The best part is, as far as audience goes, how everyone dismisses a 20 second slomo sequence of coyotes crossing the street, the look in Vincent's eyes and how it reached him. PROTIP: slomo = meaning, they weren't trying to reach the 2 hour mark with the movie. theres a reason for the slomo
as far as the meaning, it could mean a lot of things. animals out of their environment, like you said, animals/hunters interacting with things that aren't prey but just there (vincent interacting with max). its a more important sequence from vincent's perspective. max isn't moving the car, he's respecting and waiting for those animals, what would vincent have done in that situation? there's the lonliness factor of a coyote running around in a street, probably lost but with the drive to get somewhere. this is the part where vincent makes an absolute character change in my opinion, which leads me to believe that in the end he didn't want to kill Max, which is the reason he died. and that's why i think the ending is just fine, and all the haters can choke
Yeah, I pretty much agree with what sefskillz is saying above.
If you don't think that both Max and Vincent went through some changes over the course of the night, I'd say you missed a lot of what the movie was about. Their conversations in the cab weren't just cool pieces of dialogue to filll time. They meant something to the characters, even if they weren't entirely clear on the impact right away.
I'd say Vincent was out of his element in two ways at the end. He'd been knocked around in the accident and was losing blood; clearly not top-notch physical shape. Secondly, he'd certainly been moved in one way or another by his night with Max. The scene with the coyotes was a really cool scene but beyond the visuals it served to highlight a moment of real introspection by Vincent. Vincent didn't change his whole view on life or anything during the film, but I'd say he definitely wasn't as sure of it at the end as he was in the beginning.
This might be the first movie I've seen this summer that I'll definitely buy on DVD. Really great stuff.
Interesting discussion about the ending. Allow me to throw in my reasoning for it --
Consider a couple of things about what happened during the course of the ending and there are a couple of things worth mentioning. The first of which is the fact that they were in an accident in the cab. They mentioned this, but Vincent wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Though he was the first to get out and get running, I'm positive he's suffering a serious concussion and his equillibrium is totaly screwed up. Sure, he has the drive and ambition to finish the job, but even football players are taken out of games if they suffer concussions so it's obviously got to be affecting him greatly.
With that being said, I don't think him tripping on the chair was meant to show that he was human or fallible, though both apply in this case, but to show that he really wasn't on top of his game anymore. Plus the fact that he was shot -- something he never concieved Max would do. Sure, Vincent does this for a living, but after getting shot, losing a good deal of blood, and surviving a pretty horrendous car crash without wearing a seatbelt, I'm sure any of us would have pretty much keeled over and rested for a couple of days.
Saw this last night. I loved this movie!!! I had a problem with the ending too. Not how the story ended but how it was presented
Maybe its just me but when tom sits down the window behind him looked like a superimposed. After spending two hour watching a great gritty digital movie it was shocking to see him end it like that in a bright train car with greenscreen effects. I may be wrong but it just looked like that to me.
Also I wish Tom didn't say anything. Sure the tie in with what he said earlier was cool. But it would have been even better to discover that myself. Mann should have shown a little restraint.
kudos to both actors for shutting up all the critics.
Best movie of teh fucking year. After sitting through dissapointment after dissapointment, Collateral delivered. Tom Cruise as Vincent is one of, if not the greatest Anti Hero's I've ever seen.
He's a human terminator!!!!!111
I loved everyone in that movie. Not just Tom Cruise, but Jamie Foxx, Jada, everyone. They were all great.
My favorite Michael Mann movie. Definitely. I'm going to see it again.
Well, I just got back from watching Michael Mann make almost every other movie released this summer look like a joke.
Before I start spoiling, I'll say that after the movie, the audience sat there in stunned silence for a couple of seconds, and then a friend of mine said, "WELL, THAT WAS DULL! I KEPT WAITING FOR SOMETHING TO HAPPEN!!" Then we all laughed nervously and went for drinks to calm our nerves.
Anyhow:
--Tom Cruise was good, but this was Jamie Foxx's movie.
--That said, Tom Cruise was undisputably fucking terrifying.
("Yo, homey! Is that my briefcase?")
For Miles Davis fans, the scene in the jazz club was AWESOME. A bit of a gloss on it for those who aren't--when they go into the club, Daniel's band is playing "Spanish Key", from Bitches Brew. The cool thing about the conversation following after which Vincent shoots Daniel is that, technically, Vincent and Daniel were both right about where Miles learned jazz--he did go to Juilliard, and he did "study" under Charlie Parker. But a true Miles fan would know that Juilliard was really just an excuse fror Miles to go to New York so he could hang out in clubs--he really learned the craft from Parker.
It wasn't just the action that rocked, but the dialogue as well: I could have listened to four hours of Jamie Foxx shooting the shit with passengers while driving around in a cab, and over the course of the movie Vincent and Max became truly well-developed characters, of the kind that increasingly rare in mainstream movies now. But my favorite dialogue bits would have to be
Daniel telling the Miles Davis story
and
Felix telling Max the story about Santa Claus and Black Peter
. And Foxx:
"It doesn't matter anymore! I've just got a badass sociopath in the back seat! You know what, Vincent? Go fuck yourself! ... What? Didn't you have your seat belt on?"
Mann wasn't credited as a screenwriter, but too much of that sounded like the dialogue in Heat for him not to have written the conversations in the cab, at the very least.
As far as action sequences--I liked the fact that there wasn't really a showcase action sequence, but that the intensity was spread out over the entire movie. However, there were a couple of standout parts: the
final chase scene
was pretty intense, but
the shootout in the Asian nightclub
was absolutely INSANE. Shot after shot in that part of the movie was pure genius.
The only minor complaint that I have about the movie, which isn't even a complaint so much as an observation, is that I had a feeling that the original screenplay might've had some flaws. Without such great direction, writing, and acting, plot twists like
the cops mistaking Max for Vincent
would have seemed ridiculous. But somehow Mann was able to sell that.
Collateral is the best time I've had in a theater this summer, with the possible exception of Harry Potter. Definitely far better than I, Robot, and even better than Spider-Man 2. Yes, THAT'S WHAT I SAID.
) so I totally bought him as a "serious" actor, and Tom Cruise was excellent.
