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[rastex]

I did a search just to make sure this hadn't already been discussed to death. Instead in the DVD tuesday topics people mentioned how there's going to be a lot of threads based on this movie.

Well, I just saw it, and they're damn right, so might as well head it off now.

This movie is incredible. I have to watch it again to catch some of the stuff that I missed, but dear God... I love how they're fully aware of the consequences of their actions, and not just in a dramatic "Don't touch anything!" but really fully aware in an intelligent way.

Great great movie.

 

[drohne]

is this out on dvd? a couple of my friends were crazy for it, i remember. i meant to go see it, but it was playing at like one theater, and they pulled it shortly after i heard about it.

 

[rastex]

The DVD was released April 5th.

Go pick it up now!

 

[sefskillz]

The DVD was released April 5th.

Are you in the US? Doesn't come out here until April 19th.

 

[galeninjapan]

Primer is the new El Mariachi

 

[Tabris]

This is probabaly one of the most intelligent movie I've ever seen.

It'll be better on Tuesday once "everyone else" has seen it. Then we can get some opinions and analyzation going on.

 

[Property of Jumpship]

What's the basic premise of this movie, I havent ever heard of it.

 

[Tabris]

What's the basic premise of this movie, I havent ever heard of it.

Go into watching the movie without knowing a single thing about it. Don't read any of these threads and go rent/buy the dvd as soon as possible. Trust me, it's very much worth it.

 

[robertsan21]

yeah i saw it yesterday it was good but with a bigger budget and better actors it could have been GREAT!

 

[Tabris]

...

Better actors? They did an excellent job. Completly believable.

 

[FnordChan]

yeah i saw it yesterday it was good but with a bigger budget and better actors it could have been GREAT!

The beauty of Primer is that it does everything it needs to do on a razor-thin budget. Throwing money at that film would have been completely useless. Now, tweaking the script a little, that I could get behind.

FnordChan

 

[Tabris]

I think what some people won't understand or maybe won't like, is the movie is through the perspective of intelligence. Everything is analyzed. Everything is by their hands. There's no drama (or not in the "traditional" way). They understand the consequences.

It takes a genre and gives it a viewpoint that not a single movie has ever done.

It's a movie of intelligence, not emotion.

 

[distantmantra]

Here is a Primer thread I tried starting back in November...

http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=22512&highlight=primer

I think at the time Fnord and I were the only ones who had seen it on the OT.

 

[ocelittle]

What a bizzarre movie...

I think I might have liked it, but I'm not sure. Couldn't figure out what was going on in the second half...

And the first half moved so slow that I didn't understand how the rest of the movie could fit in the next 30 minutes.

 

[etiolate]

Man that got confusing and then more confusing. It's an engineers movie I suppose, but it would help to explain things a tiny itty bitty bit instead of just racing through an important part of the dialogue.

 

[FoneBone]

I'm going to have to rent this when I get the chance... been eager to see it since I saw the reviews from Sundance 2004, but had no way of seeing it in theaters.

 

[themadcowtipper]

I plan on picking it up as soon as I get paid. I am very into the technical aspect of filmaking, it is what I took in college. I really cant wait to see what he could do with the money he spent. I know how expensive it can be to make a film, the worst part being the the cost of film and the camera. I plan on watching it a few times, not because of lack of understanding the film, but the first time through films I usually get destracted by analazing the different film shots. I cant' wait.

 

[ocelittle]

There should really be a Behind the Scenes for this, because it has some very nice shots in it.

Could easily pass for 30-50 thousand dollar movie.

Digital hinders it, though. The night scenes are grainy as all hell, and the sound mix isn't up to par with larger budgets...but that is one of the movies endearing characteristics.

 

[Mr. Spinnington]

So I just saw Primer and thought it was really intelligent for what they had to work with. I haven't read all of this because well... it was kind of a lot to take in by itself. I will say though that I fully enjoyed it and will watch it again (probably with commentary)

However, I've deduced that

Spoiler

yes, Aaron was in the past killing his doubles, or at least trying to. Also Abe killed himself it seemed like, when he was asleep in the chamber near the end(?)

What I didn't understand was

Spoiler

how they figured out it was a time machine,

but then my DVD skipped in the scene about 20 minutes in when they're talking about batteries. If I had any complaints it would be that they were a little less vague about some things, but with their budget they did a hot job of telling/showing a good story. The movie was less, to me, about time travel, but the concept of hiding from doubles or fixing things for seperate plans. Well, no it was actually pretty balanced. The one other thing that really confused me was

Spoiler

the relevance to Abe of Aaron recording his conversations, and Aaron's bloody ear. These didn't make any difference to the plot except that we knew what the earpiece was for. The bloody ear just had me totally like wtf. That along with their handwriting

If anything else comes to mind I'll put it out there, but a debate or discsussion would be very welcome. I also thought the acting was pretty good, and it was well-written for the technology and budget they had, I'm now a fan

 

[etiolate]

I watched the movie and I have no idea

Spoiler

what this Aaron killing body doubles and abe killing himself business is. Where the fuck did that happen?

 

[Mr. Spinnington]

Spoiler

Near the last quarter of the movie. In the beginning they see themselves so it would actually create a paradox of storyline if you think about it. They would have died before half of the movie was over if they were killing their doubls. Also, it looked like Aaron's doubles were just knocked out because they escaped form the attic and closet.

 

[Crazymoogle]

In on the thread late for various reasons...but hey, it's worth more discussion than those MGS3 melee's in the gaming forum. And let me just reiterate others in saying that the engineering perspective was not only interesting, but fresh enough to cement it as perhaps the most serious film look at the concept ever.

However, I've deduced that

Spoiler

yes, Aaron was in the past killing his doubles, or at least trying to.

Actually,

Spoiler

Aaron was basically answering the big question of the movie: if you could have everything, EVERYTHING you want in life, what do you do next?

He decided to improve himself. He sets up the party and the shotgun incident, and then plays out the "perfect moment" by making himself appear to be the hero. He's the character his wife applauded when they were talking about punching the boss in the face.

The problem with making the "perfect moment" is that it's not just going to magically happen. Aaron had to go back and do the entire party thing several times, recording and memorizing what people would say and when things would happen. And the big problem by doing this is that every time he goes, there's still the guy in the past (himself) that he has to stop from going to the party.

He's becoming a new copy every time he uses the machine; as mentioned in the movie, history only seems to record the final try, so once Aaron travels back, causality is no longer a big deal. He could go back and kill himself in the womb and it wouldn't matter, because by the universe of the movie, there is no magic paradox cure.

But he can't bear the thought of killing himself. Those copies are, in a way, his failsafe. He loves his family too much to risk everything. So his copies become the rats in the attic, and don't get out until he skips town.

The movie was less, to me, about time travel, but the concept of hiding from doubles or fixing things for seperate plans.

Well, again it was about causality and what happens when you break it.

Spoiler

By traveling back, suddenly Aaron no longer has control over his own life. There are two Aarons that must work together to make society think there is one. But everything they do differs from each other, they become seperate personalities, and at some point in the line the situation becomes too complex to predict. Aaron and Abe basically opened up a situation where they could do anything - even spoil the trust in each other - and presumably the other party would never know about it.

Now, the really interesting part was Granger (Rachel's father - the guy in the car that they find out is a double). This is where shit gets shaken up and Aaron realizes that causality is basically a lie with regards to the machine. Granger 2 doesn't exist in any other part of the movie. Presumably (both to the audience and Aaron/Abe) he's from a future where an emergency happened and Granger found out. From then on, Aaron is freed from worrying what might happen. As long as he's thinking ahead, nobody can stop him. Ever.

Spoiler

the relevance to Abe of Aaron recording his conversations, and Aaron's bloody ear. These didn't make any difference to the plot except that we knew what the earpiece was for. The bloody ear just had me totally like wtf. That along with their handwriting

Spoiler

The bloody ear and the handwriting is actually really important. They're representing the copy effect - essentially by that time in the movie, Aaron is like the photocopy run through the machine too many times. His whole cellular structure is getting a dice reroll, and things aren't working out so well.

Why is this important to Abe? Because, along with the error in the conversation recording, he then figures out that the Aaron he's talking to is a different version than the one he was expecting, and the eventual split.

The beauty, the simplicity of the film is also why it's so bloody hard to understand.

Spoiler

IThe story is *supposed* to spin out of control. Every time the number of failsafes or clones increases, so does the possibility for error, which might increase the failsafes or clones again, and so on. By the end, Aaron and Abe both do things to try and stem the flow, but the scary thing is that there is no guarantee. If Granger 2 made it, there could be other machines out there.

Aaron and Abe haven't opened Schrodinger's box. They've just made a copy.

To be honest, yes, I'd love to see an easier to understand script. But holding to their engineering sense was the perfect call artistically.

 

[rastex]

Awesome analysis. I really have to watch this movie again... and again and again. The point that this became one of my favourite movies was when

Spoiler

they introduced the failsafe

It's the very thing an engineer would do.