Kill Your Masters
Member
Please just keep that wrestling shit out of here.ZombieSupaStar said:
Fuck no.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Official UFC 100 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Boogie
- Start date
- Status
ZombieSupaStar
Member
agrajag said:
eh its all about making money, anyone who doesnt work for that reason is a fool imo. You'd think budlight would see a spike in sales since everyone hates brock, its coors that should be pissed off:lol
edit: and hasnt it been shown that there is a lot of crossover from wrestling to ufc now, in terms of ratings/viewer demographics, when they began TUF after Raws timeslot? That could be both a blessing and a curse.
Hellraizer said:
thats what lesnar and white even said it was, be more pissed your fans fell for it.
yeah, pretty much.
"Real Fighting" isnt very exciting 90% of the time, the other 10% is awesome though.
The Sherdog rankings are wrong imo. I regard "Pound 4 Pound" as the best fighter technically speaking whilst taking size and weight into consideration. With that said I don't see how Anderson Silver and GSP can be considered pound for pound champs. These are guys who cut serious weight, are usually larger physically than their opponents and will rarely fighter anyone bigger than them. I dont see GSP out-wrestling someone with 40KGs over him. And Anderson probably walks around very close to a heavy weight.
Fedor is almost always smaller than most of his opponents, is outweighed sometimes by huge amounts and at 6 foot he's short for that weight category. A small heavyweight but he routinely outclasses men towering above him using superior technique and strategy. In my mind that makes him the p4p champ.
Its interesting that weight cutting isn't as big in Asia or Eastern Europe. If Fedor came from a US wrestling background he'd surely be fighting at light heavy or even middle weight. Watch Yoshihiro Akiyama at UFC 100 he's fighting a guy that's ridiculously huge compared to him. They should weigh people on the day of the fight me thinks.
Fedor is almost always smaller than most of his opponents, is outweighed sometimes by huge amounts and at 6 foot he's short for that weight category. A small heavyweight but he routinely outclasses men towering above him using superior technique and strategy. In my mind that makes him the p4p champ.
Its interesting that weight cutting isn't as big in Asia or Eastern Europe. If Fedor came from a US wrestling background he'd surely be fighting at light heavy or even middle weight. Watch Yoshihiro Akiyama at UFC 100 he's fighting a guy that's ridiculously huge compared to him. They should weigh people on the day of the fight me thinks.
nightez said:
I don't see how the bigger size of Fedor's opponents proves Fedor has more skill than GSP and Silva. I would argue a skilled opponent of the same weight takes more technique to beat than a bigger opponent of no skill, especially at HW where they get considerably slower and gas faster.
SolidSnakex
Member
Article on the Brock double standard
http://mmajunkie.com/news/15547/bro...fc-100-antics-brims-with-double-standards.mma
Seems pretty spot on to me.
http://mmajunkie.com/news/15547/bro...fc-100-antics-brims-with-double-standards.mma
Seems pretty spot on to me.
polyh3dron
Banned
^^^^ THANK YOU. Holy FUCK the hate for Brock teeters on the edge of irrationality.
Although I STILL think Fedor can kick his ass.
Although I STILL think Fedor can kick his ass.
BamYouHaveAids
Member
Shouldn't the fact that there are plenty of pro wrestlers in MMA that don't get booed prove that there isn't a double standard, and the people hate Brock because he is a dick and got undeserved opportunities?
SolidSnakex
Member
BamYouHaveAids said:
No, because as the article pointed out, Brock was getting heavily booed by fans before he got any title shot. He was booed heavily all the way back to the first Mir fight (his first fight in the UFC). He's also the highest profile wrestler to make it into the UFC, and it's coming at a time when the sport is trying to break into the mainstream.
BamYouHaveAids
Member
Machida got booed during his fight with Soko and he got booed even louder during his fight with Tito. The fact is fans cheer for established fighters they are familar with, they also become aware of their styles and might cheer for the very same thing they boo someone else for doing. Lesnar getting booed during his debut in Mir's hometown isn't surprising and his coments on how he was going to dominate the sport pre-UFC didn't do him any favors. Lashley is a pro wrestler, hell, he still wrestles and yet he doesn't catch anywhere near the amount of hate as Lesnar.SolidSnakex said:
I don't think that would make much difference. When I wrestled in high school I cut 20 lbs to make weight the morning of the tournament and was still able to compete at a high level (winning some and finishing top 3 in almost every tournament my last couple of years).nightez said:
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
charsace said:
In the US.
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
I don't think people hate Brock because he was an entertainer.
People hate that he was given a free pass to the top of the rankings because he was an entertainer.
Despite how people try to downplay it,giving people like that a free pass diminishes the legitimacy of MMA as a sport and its ranking system and not just as a tough guy competition.
Has he proven that he's qualified..sure. However if he had to go 10-0 before getting a title show everyone would have respected him and there would have been 8 other fighters that would have had a chance to beat him before progressing in the rankings just like they have to. Shane Carwin is a perfect example of that.
So I do dislike Brock for being the douchbag he is, and I can't wait for someone to knockhim out of the game,since i don't believe brock will accept anything less that top dollar and top billing.
And I resent him, Dana and Zuffa for damaging their own companies perception of being a real sport just for the sake of a payday.
People hate that he was given a free pass to the top of the rankings because he was an entertainer.
Despite how people try to downplay it,giving people like that a free pass diminishes the legitimacy of MMA as a sport and its ranking system and not just as a tough guy competition.
Has he proven that he's qualified..sure. However if he had to go 10-0 before getting a title show everyone would have respected him and there would have been 8 other fighters that would have had a chance to beat him before progressing in the rankings just like they have to. Shane Carwin is a perfect example of that.
So I do dislike Brock for being the douchbag he is, and I can't wait for someone to knockhim out of the game,since i don't believe brock will accept anything less that top dollar and top billing.
And I resent him, Dana and Zuffa for damaging their own companies perception of being a real sport just for the sake of a payday.
Kill Your Masters
Member
"Your fans"? Is this some WWE vs. UFC battle or what? I don't really care that the fans fell for it, I just don't like to see that kind of thing in MMA, not because Brock is a annoying SOB, but because he is faking that shit. He's not real. It's mostly an fake act.
I agree. Brock got booed, maybe he didn't deserve it in the beginning, but he's just bitter now. It's easier flipping off the crowd than earning their respect.
What will it take for Brock to earn the respect of the fans?
Everyone who dislikes him seems to keep on saying, 'just wait till next time, Randy will lay him out.' Then it is Frank, and now it is Carwin.
Just like the article said, he only talks shit to people who talk shit to him and doubt him for no other reason than being in the WWE.
Can't hate the guy for that.
Everyone who dislikes him seems to keep on saying, 'just wait till next time, Randy will lay him out.' Then it is Frank, and now it is Carwin.
Just like the article said, he only talks shit to people who talk shit to him and doubt him for no other reason than being in the WWE.
Can't hate the guy for that.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Solaros said:
He didn't only talk shit about Mir after the fight was over though.
I just love Brock Lesnar shutting all the people making stupid comments about the WWE.
Just because the WWE is scripted doesn't mean the men who are in that company can't really fight.
I just don't understand it. It's scripted, so what? That means you should disrespect it and all the men in there are pussies?
Keep shutting up all the skeptics, Brock. You were a beast in the WWE, and you are a beast in the UFC. Show all these bastards that you have to possess athletic skill to become the best in the WWE.
Just because the WWE is scripted doesn't mean the men who are in that company can't really fight.
I just don't understand it. It's scripted, so what? That means you should disrespect it and all the men in there are pussies?
Keep shutting up all the skeptics, Brock. You were a beast in the WWE, and you are a beast in the UFC. Show all these bastards that you have to possess athletic skill to become the best in the WWE.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Randy Couture won a UFC belt in his 4th MMA match ever.bloodydrake said:
Anderson Silva won the middleweight belt in his very first UFC PPV. (He was only on one Fight Night previously.) Of course he had a lot of experience coming in, though.
It's not unique for Brock to have gotten the belt so fast. And your argument doesn't make sense because Brock didn't start to get booed when he got his title shot. He was being booed all the time just during the first Mir fight and against Herring. His rise afterward had nothing to do with him being hated from the very start.
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
When he stops acting like a spoiled schoolyard bully and treats the sport with the kind of respect he himself thinks he deserves.Solaros said:
I respect his abilities but have no respect for him and he doesn't deserve anything more then that at this point.
Honestly tho as the paydays increase for these athletes you will see more and more Big guys from the NFL and Wrestling that will make the transition over to MMA.
Up till now the Payout just didn't make it appealing for guys that could get million dollar contracts in other sports to consider MMA an alternative.
When they get enough of those huge athletes in MMA I bet they will add a super heavy weight devision and lower the range for HW to 205 to 235ish and have 235ish to 285ish. But thats a few years away..i do see it happening eventually tho.
Jack Random
Member
Time Warner stopped carrying HDNet, so now im less excited then i normally would be... since i cant like, fucking watch it or anything.mujun said:
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
You can't compare what the ufc was when it started(tough guy competition)to what it has been working towards being the last 6 years or so( a legitimate ranked sport).
Anderson was considered extremely dangerous and had fought a ton before he beat Franklin in his 2nd UFC event. Again the depth of the division at the time wasnt' as deep.Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Brock was given the fight with Randy after losing to Mir...think about that HE LOST his debut fight in UFC then fought Heath Hearing who isn't even ranked top 10 in Heavyweights and he was given a title shot immediately over others that had a perfect 8-0 record type situation. People saw how transparent it was/is.
People boo'd him due to his promo shit at the time of the firsts Mir fight saying he's a world champion of pro wrestling..and that somehow legitimizes his being a top tier MMA fighter..
Solaros said:
I respect him as a fighter after seeing all of his fights in UFC so far. I still think he wins 90% out of his physical prowess, with skill being the remaining 10%. But he's certainly not some joke like Bobb Sapp or something. I think it's fair to say Frank Mir took their last fight very seriously and tried to prepare for it as best as he could and still got owned.
However, Brock does not have my respect as a person, or a sportsman. He will never earn it if he continues to behave like a roid-raging prick.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
You're kind of ignoring the rest of the history here. What really happened is that Couture left, so Nog and Mir fought for the interim heavyweight championship. They were the real contenders for the championship. Dana just saw Lesnar vs Couture as the money match as Couture/Mir or Couture/Nog wasn't going to be a big deal. Then Lesnar and Mir fought to unify.bloodydrake said:
Your argument about divisions not being deep at times doesn't help either. The heavyweight division is pretty crap. Velasquez, Carwin, and Kongo are the only three other guys that could be in Lesnar's place right now. Crocop and Gonzaga have been shit lately. Lesnar was the obvious pick to fight Couture.
Brock wasn't just "given" the title. He beat three guys in a row to be where he is. You're exaggerating his rise to the title.
I think in the end, this is another religious argument over whether bookers should strictly follow the rankings or whether we should just see the fights people will pay to see.
littleorphanfunk
Banned
Exactly, Brock beat both the interim an heavyweight champs to claim the belt
also I don't see how people were boing Brock and not Mir, Mir is the cockiest douche in mma
also I don't see how people were boing Brock and not Mir, Mir is the cockiest douche in mma
polyh3dron
Banned
I thought Cro Cop was going to be fighting on Monday and I just found out that he's back in the UFC now... Holy shit. Dana fucking hates him now though.mujun said:
Say what you want about Brock deserving or not deserving the title shot at the time - he's clearly proven that he is a solid UFC champion, and will probably hold on to that belt for a while. That in itself essentially made him deserving of the title shot, along with the heavyweight division being as shallow as it is.
Had Brock lost to Herring or Couture, or had that loss to Mir been one-sided, then you could easily say that it was way too early for him to be going up against a title holder. But he destroyed Herring and then Couture, and then destroyed Mir in the rematch. Brock's proven he belongs. Plus, if you look at every big UFC heavyweight contender, they'd all be hard-pressed to beat Brock at this point. Every one of them. That's why everybody wants Fedor in the UFC now more than ever (well, that and Brock's attitude rubbing people the wrong way, and them wanting Fedor to shut him up).
Had Brock lost to Herring or Couture, or had that loss to Mir been one-sided, then you could easily say that it was way too early for him to be going up against a title holder. But he destroyed Herring and then Couture, and then destroyed Mir in the rematch. Brock's proven he belongs. Plus, if you look at every big UFC heavyweight contender, they'd all be hard-pressed to beat Brock at this point. Every one of them. That's why everybody wants Fedor in the UFC now more than ever (well, that and Brock's attitude rubbing people the wrong way, and them wanting Fedor to shut him up).
littleorphanfunk
Banned
Yep. He was owning Mir the first time they fought before he got caught on the heelhook. None of his fights have even been close
Ninja Scooter
Member
a bit of a blast from the past:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8viXeyT9gT4
look how far things have come.
:lol Tank Abbot saying he's the greatest athlete in the UFC
and WTF at one dude fighting with no gloves and a t-shirt on. I remember watching these as a kid but for some reason i didn't remember them being allowed to be gloveless. Brutal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8viXeyT9gT4
look how far things have come.
:lol Tank Abbot saying he's the greatest athlete in the UFC
and WTF at one dude fighting with no gloves and a t-shirt on. I remember watching these as a kid but for some reason i didn't remember them being allowed to be gloveless. Brutal.
Ninja Scooter said:
I think the main reason gloves were introduced wasn't actually to protect the person getting punched, as one might assume - it was to protect the person doing the punching. You can easily break your hand if you don't punch correctly. Some fighters wore gloves back when they weren't mandatory for that specific reason.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Zeliard said:
true, but if you land the right punch w/o gloves you could really, really fuck someone up.
Ninja Scooter said:
Yeah, due to the knuckles being exposed. Having fighters with gloves on also makes for a much easier time getting it into the mainstream. Just the visual alone of seeing two bare-knuckle brawlers is enough to turn a lot of people off, before punches even start being thrown.
To the critics of GSP's performance of Alves:
Alves can ask Fitch how it felt to fight GSP. ---->
GSP in my opinion is over Anderson Silva and Fedor. He has destroyed more top competition than the two.
A real sick highlight of GSP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqWOP_f4m3I
Alves can ask Fitch how it felt to fight GSP. ---->
GSP in my opinion is over Anderson Silva and Fedor. He has destroyed more top competition than the two.
A real sick highlight of GSP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqWOP_f4m3I
sooperkool
Member
No. just No.
GSP is great but Fedor has destroyed everyone put in front of him. 30-1 and the 1 is due to needing someone to advance in a tournament.
GSP is great but Fedor has destroyed everyone put in front of him. 30-1 and the 1 is due to needing someone to advance in a tournament.
Kill Your Masters
Member
I haven't watched WWE since 2006/2007, since when is this the case?SLYspyda said:
abstract alien
Member
When it pertains to Fedor and GSP, who has beatin the most number of skilled fighters?
Fedor: 29-1 http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=stats.fighterDetail&pid=07EAE4AEE33FC629abstract alien said:
Nog x 2
Cro cop
Herring
Arlovski
Sylvia
Hunt
Coleman
No real losses
GSP: 19-2 http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=stats.fighterDetail&pid=9E1A4588BD05B57B
Trigg
Hughes x 2
Penn x 2
Mayhem
Karo
Sherk
Koschek
Fitch
Alves
Toughest career
abstract alien
Member
Thanks. I was unaware of Fedor facing Nog twice.Asbel said:
- Status