Syphon Filter
Member
Is Rare still 4 teams? All of them can't be working on dumb avatars right?
[The Rare Canceled Game Art Thread]
- Thread starter Shiggy
- Start date
Azure Phoenix
Member
Nice to hear some insight from you, Wil. After your move to Rare I still remember seeing that Joanna artwork every single month in NGCs most wanted chart listing for Perfect Dark Zero, and hoping each issue that it would be finally revealed and heavily stylised like that artwork.
Is there any chance you'd be able to add the full version of that great Kameo artwork which is currently on the front page of your website to the art crypt section? I'd love to see the full piece.
Is there any chance you'd be able to add the full version of that great Kameo artwork which is currently on the front page of your website to the art crypt section? I'd love to see the full piece.
I didn't do anything for that prototype and I didn't see any redesign for Joanna. I imagine they'd have brought her back to a more realistic style if the other stuff they were doing was anything to go by.IOnEI Falcon said:
As far as I still know Rare is just one team focussing on sports now. I don't think they're doing Avatars now but I could be wrong. Whether they're dumb or not is personal opinion but I think they're quite popular and the themed outfits do pretty well.Syphon Filter said:
I'll see if I can dig out my moody Kameo and post the whole figure up on the blog.
Anticitizen One
Banned
I've pretty much come to accept that we will never get a Killer Instinct 3 from RARE
How the mighty has fallen.
Probably it's a rhetorical question but do you think it was a mistake back in 2002 that Nintendo sold Rare and the Stampers left the company?
I know it was a lot of money, but for me Rare was legendary and I would die for a new true Conker, Jet Force, Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie and DKC.
Probably it's a rhetorical question but do you think it was a mistake back in 2002 that Nintendo sold Rare and the Stampers left the company?
I know it was a lot of money, but for me Rare was legendary and I would die for a new true Conker, Jet Force, Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie and DKC.
It's hard to say. I think Rare is/was a better suit to a Nintendo audience and I think they would have had more success on the Gamecube/Wii even if they were just doing the same sort of games as on the N64. However, I still don't really know the full reason as to the split/sale so it's impossible to say whether the partnership would have continued smoothly.Jethro said:
As I said earlier, I do think the the Stampers were really the heart of Rare and in my mind (which may, or may not, be a bit rubbish) Tim & Chris + Ninty = the best Rare and I was sad to see that go.
As for the Mah Jong. Yeah, about that...
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Not to question the validity of this article, but I'm pretty sure that safe in Banjo Tooie was referring to the year in which Rare Ltd was founded (set up while they were still using the "Ultimate: Play the Game" name under the banner "Rare: Designs on the Future" - another reference that made its way into Perfect Dark BTW!)
The Awkward Wizard
Member
Woah! Wil Overton's here? Things are getting weird...
Wow. I wonder if it was still like this after the Stampers left.Shiggy said:
What I dont understand is why MS is sitting on all these beloved franchises and doing nothing? Rare obviously isnt gonna use them so why not outsource? Why not do what Nintendo does from time to time and work with a 3rd or another 2nd party to create a game based on one of their own characters?
Oh and hi to Wil, loved your stuff since N64 magazine. I remember having two of your Joanna Dark posters in my bedroom. The chicks loved it
Oh and hi to Wil, loved your stuff since N64 magazine. I remember having two of your Joanna Dark posters in my bedroom. The chicks loved it
Syphon Filter
Member
It's up to Microsoft,if they want they can have Rare do the titles.Booser said:
Nuclear Muffin said:
Right, it could either be no hint or a well hidden hint at those events at Rare. It's just speculation.
Still, I would definitely not question that blog, it's by the person who was in charge of Raretopia.
Many things apparently changed, Wil probably knows much more about that. For example people were now allowed to see the work of other teams. Also, the method of producing games changed quite a bit - one old employee even said that they did more prototypes in the post 2007 period than ever before (with all being canned of course).
@Wil
Did Rare management ever find out who posted this information? http://www.gameguru.in/action/2007/15/rumor-101-perfect-dark-2-xbox-360s-next-humungous-killer-app/
The article fits too well with Ryan Firchau's art to be simple speculation.
IOnEI Falcon
Member
Haha yeah. I remember reading that article so long ago and being so excited! Didn't DrDaves mention this article in regards to something?Shiggy said:@Wil
Did Rare management ever find out who posted this information? http://www.gameguru.in/action/2007/15/rumor-101-perfect-dark-2-xbox-360s-next-humungous-killer-app/
The article fits too well with Ryan Firchau's art to be simple speculation.
Shadowlink
Member
Hey Wil! Nice to see you on here. Was Rare ever working on KI3, or were the teases just for the shits and giggles?
Whether or not there was ever a meeting to discuss doing KI3 I don't know but creating bogus documents or pics to put on the wall or somewhere that's easy to spot when visiting journos came around was not unknown
I don't know where Gameguru (who? what?) got that story from but I guess it's referring to the Core prototype that got a bit leaked. I don't think the team ever got to a stage where they could discuss the title. Poor old Jo, she looks like she needs a couple of Rare Thursday curries.
Personally I'm still not convinced that even if MS upped and greenlit a new Conker or Jet Force that they'd really sell to the 360 audience. They tried with VP and Banjo Nuts & Bolts and failed so now that demographic is served by Kinect.
It's a shame but I wouldn't hold my breath for the old days to come back.
I don't know where Gameguru (who? what?) got that story from but I guess it's referring to the Core prototype that got a bit leaked. I don't think the team ever got to a stage where they could discuss the title. Poor old Jo, she looks like she needs a couple of Rare Thursday curries.
Personally I'm still not convinced that even if MS upped and greenlit a new Conker or Jet Force that they'd really sell to the 360 audience. They tried with VP and Banjo Nuts & Bolts and failed so now that demographic is served by Kinect.
It's a shame but I wouldn't hold my breath for the old days to come back.
Shadowlink
Member
Thanks for answering my question. Personally, I think Banjo would have sold more if it played like it did on the N64. I'm not saying that Nuts and Bolts is a bad game since I really enjoyed it, but many were turned off by the vehicle gameplay. We probably won't get a new Banjo game anymore. Hell, I'll take a new Banjo game on XBLA. Same goes for a remake of KI.
Kermit The Dog
Banned
Shiggy said:
I've spoken to Jeton myself and the guy knows his stuff. I would believe every word of it.
I've played XBLA Banjo and Tooie with my 8 year old son and he really enjoyed them so I think there is still an audience there for those sort of games (he didn't take to Nuts & Bolts or VP). I always said that Ratchet and Clank was the best next gen Rare game Rare never made.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
Hey Wil - long time fan from Greece here. I grew up with you man and I was ecstatic when news broke out in N64 Mag that you were moving to Rare, hope you got to have a great time in the company.
Two questions from me, if you have time:
1) Did you get to experience that creative "magic" that seemed to flow into most of Rare's releases? Any cool anecdotal stories about game development inside Rare?
2) I'm not sure if I should ask this question, but do you think Rare has any chance of growing back to a formidable studio? Do you think Microsoft has just settled with using Rare as a small entity of developing casual Kinect games and copying whatever Nintendo is doing at that moment (fitness games, etc)?
Again, big fan of yours, very happy to be able to converse with you
Two questions from me, if you have time:
1) Did you get to experience that creative "magic" that seemed to flow into most of Rare's releases? Any cool anecdotal stories about game development inside Rare?
2) I'm not sure if I should ask this question, but do you think Rare has any chance of growing back to a formidable studio? Do you think Microsoft has just settled with using Rare as a small entity of developing casual Kinect games and copying whatever Nintendo is doing at that moment (fitness games, etc)?
Again, big fan of yours, very happy to be able to converse with you
Annoying Old Party Man said:
Although I didn't know it at the time I think that golden period was just beginning to come to an end when I joined in 2000. For the most part you just get on with it (and I imagine it's like that anywhere 'magical' from Pixar to Valve) but, of course, there are odd times when you sit and think "bloody hell, this is cool". Being at E3 in 2001, before the show opened, walking around the Nintendo booth with the Stampers, Shigsy and the Nintendo brass being asked if I thought Pikmin was really going to sell or not was a bit surreal.
Annoying Old Party Man said:2) I'm not sure if I should ask this question, but do you think Rare has any chance of growing back to a formidable studio? Do you think Microsoft has just settled with using Rare as a small entity of developing casual Kinect games and copying whatever Nintendo is doing at that moment (fitness games, etc)?
Again, big fan of yours, very happy to be able to converse with you
Cheers
I think if you asked MS they'd say that Rare was still a formidable studio and that Kinect Sports has sold very nicely, thank you. I just think that they've decided that the sort of games Rare used to make either don't fit with the 360 or don't sell well enough to have them continue making them. Personally I think that's a shame because I liked (and still like) playing those sort of games but then I don't have to put my money where my mouth is.Annoying Old Party Man
Member
Wil said:Cheers
Everyone who loved Rare back in the day knows that the company is nothing like it used to be. The studio could be used for myriads of things, from downloadable Live games, to a new Killer Instinct title, to some 2D platform games, to new shooters, etc. I don't know if they have the creative power anymore but the old Rare had a very diversified catalogue, even if they seemed to follow Nintendo's footsteps.
I guess we're at the end of it then. :-(
p.s. You thinking of working for new games or smth?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Neat to see you here Wil, though I'm not sure if you wound up working on any of the few Rare games I've actually enjoyed post buy-out (Ghoulies, Viva Pinata and Nuts & Bolts) it's still nice to see somebody from Rare on something besides Twitter.Wil said:
Just quoted this particular bit since I've always wondered how close Miyamoto/Nintendo was to Rare in terms of PR, business relations and everything; there always seems to be this weird split in opinion online that either Nintendo and Rare were constantly at odds with one another or the other extreme where Nintendo was constantly getting too into Rare's business (with interviews surrounding DKC1 and SFAdventures being used as 'proof' for both opinions respectively). Please tell me it was somewhere inbetween, since I find the image of the Stamper bros. and Miyamoto being somewhat close comforting. :>
It was refreshing to see him bring them up again during a few interviews for DKCR last year at any rate.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Astrosanity said:
Well, in the Iwata Asks for DKCR, they did seem to be very close and very much buddy buddy in the SNES/early N64 era at least.
But perhaps Wil here can give us a bit more insight.
This thread has become a bit more active with Mr. Overton here - just wanted to say that although I am not a fan of Rare's new output (mostly post buy-out) beyond short plays, I was a big fan of their prior output. Before that the studio was mostly magic defining much of my childhood gaming memories. Thank you.
To those of you hating on avatars/kinect sports - it's easy to hate on it because it's most definitely not Blast Corps, Battletoads, or RC Pro-AM. But it does take a studio with *some* level of skill remaining to produce a successful "casual" title. Nintendo and Rare both made successful casual titles that stand out on top of the piles of shovelware on the shelves. I wish they were still making stuff like Conker too, but Microsoft (unfortunately) decided that they prefer profit to good will - as most corporations do. Can't really fault them - they initially tried the goodwill "Rare-type game" route and it didn't work out for them.
To those of you hating on avatars/kinect sports - it's easy to hate on it because it's most definitely not Blast Corps, Battletoads, or RC Pro-AM. But it does take a studio with *some* level of skill remaining to produce a successful "casual" title. Nintendo and Rare both made successful casual titles that stand out on top of the piles of shovelware on the shelves. I wish they were still making stuff like Conker too, but Microsoft (unfortunately) decided that they prefer profit to good will - as most corporations do. Can't really fault them - they initially tried the goodwill "Rare-type game" route and it didn't work out for them.
With regards to Rare's relationship with Nintendo I'm probably not the best person to ask that. As far as I saw in those few years before MS came on the scene, every now and again some people would come over and suddenly you'd have Ken Lobb or even Shigsy wandering down the corridor or looking over your shoulder but I'm sure there was constant communication that I wasn't privvy to. I was pretty far down on the food chain so (unfortunately) I didn't get to hob-nob with Ninty big-wigs.
Yes, it probably was somewhere 'in-between'.
Yes, it probably was somewhere 'in-between'.
[Nintex] said:
I'd like to say that I was cool, calm, collected and gave an amazingly insightful reply that showed an incredible awareness of the gaming market.
I think I just mumbled something along the lines of "huh, yeah, it's pretty cool. I like the way you can send your guys to beat up on bugs".
And so my days as a link between the common man and the gods of mount Ninty were ended.
Skiptastic
Member
#1. Perfect Dark ZeroSmall Mailman said:
#2. MS already has Halo
#3. MS doesn't need another FPS when 360 is the CoD console of choice.
Bluemercury
Member
Wil said:
Remebering reading a myamoto interview around some e3 where he said he could have shown footage of it at that time Rare was obviously still with Nintendo.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Skiptastic said:
Perfect Dark is pretty much dead unless Microsoft were to decide it was worthwhile to sell the IP to pay for some other project.
Kermit The Dog
Banned
PD is still my favorite game of all time.
PDZero... Not so much. Lost the lustre of the original and curiously fucked with the style and lore of the original. Not to mention the bullshit story. Pretty much the first time I played a Rare game and felt it was a second-rate product.
Wil what was internal consensus on PD? Were the teams well aware of outside sentiment?
PDZero... Not so much. Lost the lustre of the original and curiously fucked with the style and lore of the original. Not to mention the bullshit story. Pretty much the first time I played a Rare game and felt it was a second-rate product.
Wil what was internal consensus on PD? Were the teams well aware of outside sentiment?
Jorok Goldblade said:
Despite the exodus of talent at Rare, they could probably still make one. But MS (rightly so, from a corporate standpoint) has made a lot more money with their acquisition doing what they're doing now. Love it or hate it, they're doing Kinect.
With that said, so are most of MS' internal first parties at the moment.
I won't pretend to speak for Wil, but I'm sure that PD Zero went through SO many changes since its inception long before it, that the end product did become a bit of a mess as a result.
IOnEI Falcon
Member
Hmm, maybe but Sony has Killzone and Resistance on top of all the 3rd party FPS titles and both those titles sell amazingly well.Skiptastic said:
IOnEI Falcon
Member
Well Resistance 2 sold around 2 million and Killzone 3 almost 2 million I believe. Maybe not amazing and maybe not enough for MS to add another FPS.StevieP said:
StevieP said:
Lots of changes in design, machine and staff. I think general consensus from people was that it was the game they'd like to have done because they could have done it so much better (isn't that always the case?). Personally I think the design should have been locked down a lot earlier to allow for more refinement but best laid plans and all that...
I will defend the story, though. Although it's obviously bats*** daft I think it was in the right (Bond-ian) way. What lets it down, I think, is that we couldn't do the sort of cut-scenes and exposition it really needed and therefore it can be a bit hard to follow at times.
Oh, and just so everyone knows, yes the teams generally read all the forums and hear all the feedback. No-one sets out to make a bad game so it can hurt if the tide turns against you. Coming from mags where you can destroy a game in a few paragraphs I soon learnt to be a lot more forgiving and level-headed when judging someone else's game.
Having said that, everyone had a great laugh at all the wallguy pshops
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Wil said:Lots of changes in design, machine and staff. I think general consensus from people was that it was the game they'd like to have done because they could have done it so much better (isn't that always the case?). Personally I think the design should have been locked down a lot earlier to allow for more refinement but best laid plans and all that...
I will defend the story, though. Although it's obviously bats*** daft I think it was in the right (Bond-ian) way. What lets it down, I think, is that we couldn't do the sort of cut-scenes and exposition it really needed and therefore it can be a bit hard to follow at times.
Oh, and just so everyone knows, yes the teams generally read all the forums and hear all the feedback. No-one sets out to make a bad game so it can hurt if the tide turns against you. Coming from mags where you can destroy a game in a few paragraphs I soon learnt to be a lot more forgiving and level-headed when judging someone else's game.
Having said that, everyone had a great laugh at all the wallguy pshops
Hell I thought that the fact that the game was as good as it was was a miracle after it was decreed that it had to be quickly remade for the 360 launch! Must've been a nightmare for everyone there.
Though I reckon Kameo turned out better in the end (Viva Pinata is the best game that Rare has done since Conker's Bad Fur Day and look, that was given plenty of time to bake...)
Speaking of which, do you know why they decided to cut out content from the XBOX remake of CBFD? (like the underwater eel section) And why they decided to censor the swearing? (Was it a Microsoft decision?)
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Remember hearing the eel section was cut because most people found it a pain in the butt in the original game (though I never thought it was that hard) and the censoring was something Microsoft mandated (which makes it ironic OH SO CHILDISH Nintendo was more lenient with swearing in the game than Microsoft was).Nuclear Muffin said:
Know it may of been well before your time Wil, but I remember Loveday saying in an old scribes there was a TON of Rare-related content planned for Melee but most of it wound up getting axed. Would you know anything about what this kind of stuff was? Probably just trophies, but the idea Banjo or Joanna nearly made it into Smash is neat.