The Substance: One hell of a movie!

Bitstream

Bitstream

Member
Come for the T&A, stay for the midlife crisis. Substance follows a jazzercise instructor who gets let go for being too old, and the challenges she'll face to get back into the spotlight. Explores the thin line between self improvement and self destruction. Lots of subtext on how our younger selves betray our future selves, and how we'll all have to answer for our decisions eventually. Best movie I've seen in some time.

 
Saw it yesterday, enjoyed it, but based on the buzz was expecting it to go a lot further into the grotesque.

Like 45 minutes of this film is just staring at Margaret Qualley's arse.
 
DetectiveBananas said:
Someone was saying this was a Horror movie (not sure why), but it seems more in line with something like Requiem for a Dream.
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I agree, kinda, but in fairness Requiem is a fucking harrowing movie, and if someone told me it was a horror to them, I'm not sure I'd debate the point. Not a horror to me, but damn if it doesn't stick with ya.
 
Certainly more like Requiem than a traditional 'horror' movie per se. The horror here is more based on the human condition, both psychologically and physically.
 
The practical effects in this movie are absolutely fantastic. Never had an experience like this at the cinema before where the audience was totally into it and during the last 15 minutes 4 people walked out.

Great stuff.
 
Shaki12345 said:
The practical effects in this movie are absolutely fantastic. Never had an experience like this at the cinema before where the audience was totally into it and during the last 15 minutes 4 people walked out.

Great stuff.
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Sounds about right hahahah, the balance between the grotesque and humor was expertly crafted towards the end. That scene where MonstroElisaSue staples the picture of Elizabeth to her face was absolutely hilarious.
 
Got tickets for tomorrow. I am so excited. Not even been to the cinema in 4 years because I can't be bothered with audiences any more, but this is exactly the sort of thing where I know I'll be surrounded by like-minded sickos (and it's a small screen with like 7 other people in).

Didn't even know what it was until I saw people posting in Discord about how wildly gross and absurd and over-the-top it was, I'm in.
 
This film blew me away. One of the most unique and memorable movies I've seen in quite a while.

Demi Moore gives the best performance of her career by far, and really goes all in for this role. Not just with the amount of nudity and vulnerability but crazy prosthetics as well. Her portrayal of Elisabeth is so nuanced and real, the scene of her trying to go on a date for example was heartbreaking to watch. You fully understand why she chooses to continue to put herself through this, and it connects so well with the topics of beauty, fame, aging, self image and what it all does to people.

Margaret Qualley is fantastic as well and the way her character developed over the course of the film was incredibly well done. She was absolutely terrifying at times and I loved it.

The editing, the visuals, the raw and touching portrayal of an aging woman, the darkess and insanity, the body horror and incredible prosthetics, this movie really made an impression on me. It's not just out to shock you, as all of it serves a meaningful underlying set of themes that are going to hit home for a lot of people.

I definitely recommend this film and I'm very curious what other great films Coralie Fargeat might have in store for us next.
 
scoobidoo112 said:
This film blew me away. One of the most unique and memorable movies I've seen in quite a while.

Demi Moore gives the best performance of her career by far, and really goes all in for this role. Not just with the amount of nudity and vulnerability but crazy prosthetics as well. Her portrayal of Elisabeth is so nuanced and real, the scene of her trying to go on a date for example was heartbreaking to watch. You fully understand why she chooses to continue to put herself through this, and it connects so well with the topics of beauty, fame, aging, self image and what it all does to people.

Margaret Qualley is fantastic as well and the way her character developed over the course of the film was incredibly well done. She was absolutely terrifying at times and I loved it.

The editing, the visuals, the raw and touching portrayal of an aging woman, the darkess and insanity, the body horror and incredible prosthetics, this movie really made an impression on me. It's not just out to shock you, as all of it serves a meaningful underlying set of themes that are going to hit home for a lot of people.

I definitely recommend this film and I'm very curious what other great films Coralie Fargeat might have in store for us next.
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Completely agree on all fronts, from top to bottom it was masterfully done. This is the type of movie that sticks with you for a while, and really gets under your skin in the best possible way. Incredibly impressed by Coralie's directorial debut, and even moreso considering she wrote the screenplay as well!
 
Bitstream said:
Completely agree on all fronts, from top to bottom it was masterfully done. This is the type of movie that sticks with you for a while, and really gets under your skin in the best possible way. Incredibly impressed by Coralie's directorial debut, and even moreso considering she wrote the screenplay as well!
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This movie should be shown to young people in high schools. Maybe it could make the world a better place.

People should be happy with what they've got, instead of wishing to be someone they cannot. The best version of yourself is up to you to create.
 
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Shaki12345 said:
This movie should be shown to young people in high schools. Maybe it could make the world a better place.

People should be happy with what they've got, instead of wishing to be someone they cannot. The best version of yourself is up to you to create.
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That's the thing about being young though, you just don't have the wisdom and perspective needed to digest the message. When you're young there's this notion that there will be time to fix things 'later'. For many, the realization that 'later' should be 'now' comes too late.
 
I don't know anything about this movie, but that trailer looks good.
 
DetectiveBananas said:
Someone was saying this was a Horror movie (not sure why), but it seems more in line with something like Requiem for a Dream.
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Oh, it's definitely horror.
2doYsxf.gif
 
Just watched this, it's absolutely brilliant. Being John Malkovich crossed with Requiem for a Dream, via David Cronenberg. I don't think I've ever seen a film that made me feel so squeamish.
 
Bitstream said:
Completely agree on all fronts, from top to bottom it was masterfully done. This is the type of movie that sticks with you for a while, and really gets under your skin in the best possible way. Incredibly impressed by Coralie's directorial debut, and even moreso considering she wrote the screenplay as well!
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It is not her directorial debut...
 
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Been looking forward to this for a while, good news it sounds as good as the trailer looked.
 
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Respected this more than I particularly liked it. I'm very happy films like this, ambitious and eccentric, are still able to get into cinemas, but absent that context I found it too messy in tone and the rules of its central storytelling device to work as well as it could have. Specifically, I was never sure what the relationship between Elisabeth and Sue actually was. For much of the film I thought Elisabeth's consciousness moved between bodies during the swap, but despite the repeated 'you are one' mantra, each acted like an individual person and seemed to only discover what the other had done after waking up, raising questions as to why anyone would take the substance to begin with if all it does it generate a de facto entirely new person. If the film's central theme is how women are put under impossible pressure to stay young and sexy forever, having Sue be an independent clone feels less impactful because Elisabeth isn't actually making a sacrifice to make herself younger and sexier in any way: it's more like she's had a daughter of whom she's increasingly jealous.

Like Fargeat's previous film, Revenge, its pretentions to subversion are undermined by how thoroughly it indulges the tropes it puports to be critiquing under a thin veil of irony. Revenge was a supposed inversion of the rape-revenge genre, putting the focus on the strength of the victim and the evil of the perpetrators rather than fetishising the violence against the woman, yet Fargeat still cast a gorgeous lead and had her in a conspicuous state of undress for most of the film. It's much the same here: for all The Substance feigns to damn the male gaze, it lingers over Margaret Qualley's magnificence at every turn, with only Dennis Quaid's hilariously sleazy producer to indicate there's anything exploitative about it, and has her front-and-centre (or, uh, back-and-centre) in the advertising. Don't get me wrong, I'm entirely delighted for any sight of Margaret Qualley under-or-undressed, but in the context of the film it feels more than a little hypocritical.

In terms of tone, the first three-quarters of the film is a sinister, suspenseful body-horror, its satire obvious (sometimes a bit too obvious - did Quaid's producer really need to be called Harvey, rather than leaving it for the audience to make the obvious connection?) but the comedic element kept as subtle seasoning rather than a main ingredient. The end of the film, however, suddenly turns into an overt, grand guignol pulpy spoof, on one hand very funny and possibly the most entertaining part of the film, but a jarringly sharp turn suggesting uncertainty as to how to bring its narrative and themes to a consistent close without relying on splashy spectacle for distraction.

To be clear, this is one of those films where it's easy to focus on the negatives because it took big ambitious swings which didn't quite land and is therefore easier to talk about how it fell short of its ambitions rather than the things it does well. On that score it is visually striking throughout and the key performances are all good, particularly Quaid and Moore (not a role which demands the biggest emotional range, but her commitment is undeniable). Outside Qualley's spectacular aesthetic appeal, hers is the performance I'm least sure about even if I think she's an extremely under-appreciated actress, because she plays Sue as vapidly as the 'character' is underwritten on the page, which could either be seen as a shortcoming or a comment on the obsession with beauty being inherently shallow and materialistic. I like Qualley in it, and she's every bit as game as Moore, but there is a noticeable emptiness to the part, intentional or not.

Fundamentally I think the core issue is how imprecisely-defined the nature of the Substance itself is at any level, which as the story's central pivot makes it hard to get a grip on the angle the film is taking on its themes. There are a lot of strong individual elements in the film but Fargeat never seems entirely sure how to bring them together, reflected in the big tonal shift at the end, fun as it is. Its unashamed weirdness and Cronenbergian horror will attract plenty of fans and for good reason, but for me it was a film defined by what it could have been rather than what is actually is.
 
xandaca said:
Respected this more than I particularly liked it. I'm very happy films like this, ambitious and eccentric, are still able to get into cinemas, but absent that context I found it too messy in tone and the rules of its central storytelling device to work as well as it could have. Specifically, I was never sure what the relationship between Elisabeth and Sue actually was. For much of the film I thought Elisabeth's consciousness moved between bodies during the swap, but despite the repeated 'you are one' mantra, each acted like an individual person and seemed to only discover what the other had done after waking up, raising questions as to why anyone would take the substance to begin with if all it does it generate a de facto entirely new person. If the film's central theme is how women are put under impossible pressure to stay young and sexy forever, having Sue be an independent clone feels less impactful because Elisabeth isn't actually making a sacrifice to make herself younger and sexier in any way: it's more like she's had a daughter of whom she's increasingly jealous.
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Maybe the point is that by striving for some ideal of physical beauty to please other people, you're effectively leaving the real you behind.
 
Watched this today and I don't think I ever saw strangers talking to each other after a movie ended because of how hyped everyone was. The whole audience was highly entertained and we were all laughing by the end at how extreme and absurd the whole thing is.

It's loaded with references to the shining, Carrie, the fly, vertigo, requiem for a dream… the make up and practical effects are outstanding. It's one hell of a ride. Pretty amazing that they just went everywhere. Other films would just stop at some point but they just show everything that you thought would be left to the audience's imagination.

Also, it's incredibly funny. The whole kitchen witch sequence is hilarious.

Absolutely loved it.
 
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Forgot to come back after watching this. Very very fun, it's got all the subtlety of a sledgehammer (and I have no idea how it won best screenplay at Cannes), but that's kinda the point. It doesn't wear its message on its sleeve so much as superglue it to its face 👀

All the scrungey and gross effects are top drawer, it's not the goriest movie ever made but you still need a strong stomach if it's not your usual kind of bag. The last half an hour is absolutely wild and goes off the rails in the best ways possible. Loved it.

Edit: had one walk-out but everyone else stayed and by the end the whole (fairly empty) room was howling.
 
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Saw this last week, one of my favorite movies in really long time. It's got an incredible style. Very overstimulating in both directions (the sexual and the grotesque) and at times is completely ridiculous. The metaphors and symbolism could not be less subtle if they tried, but in spite of that I was utterly enamored from start to finish. No walk outs (that I noticed) and when it was done the theater clapped. Not the movie I expected it to be at all. Hard recommend for anyone even slightly curious.
 
Just watched this movie yesterday. It's hot and grotesque all jumbled into one.
 
Saw this last night, fucking brilliant.

The girl who played Sue was smoking hot and Demi Moore was perfection.

That last 45 minutes was insane.

Movie of the year for me. Easily.

If this doesn't scoop all the awards then Monstrosue will come for you lol
 
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I LOVED it. I'll spoiler block my thoughts because this is a film you MUST go in blind!

I think the troma style latex monstrosity at the end was a bit much, I would have preferred a more cronemburg style disintegration of sue beyond her teeth, nails, and ear. But the RODICULOUS extremes with the blood hose was worth it. The juxtiposition of the gore with the top less dancers (and this was a new years show for kids????) was wwll done. Demis face crawling to the star....fuckimg chefs kiss right there!

I do wish we got more of Sparkles empty life before she transformed. Seeing that she had so few options and the aerobics show WAS HER LIFE would have made the allure of Sue a little stronger. I would have liked a little more about how Sue thinks of Elizabeth, just how much do they remember? The old man/medical intern as a comparison would have been nice as well.

Still, the bombastic end worked. Literally spitting up a boob to appease men made me think a bit...but then I realize I'm just a slave to my Y chromosome!. Women engage in this stuff as much as men want them too.

I hope this film does well in the awards season. It's probably too uncomfortable in the wrong ways (versus Emma stone in pretty things or whatever that flick was) but I'm rooting for it.
 
jason10mm said:
I LOVED it. I'll spoiler block my thoughts because this is a film you MUST go in blind!

I think the troma style latex monstrosity at the end was a bit much, I would have preferred a more cronemburg style disintegration of sue beyond her teeth, nails, and ear. But the RODICULOUS extremes with the blood hose was worth it. The juxtiposition of the gore with the top less dancers (and this was a new years show for kids????) was wwll done. Demis face crawling to the star....fuckimg chefs kiss right there!

I do wish we got more of Sparkles empty life before she transformed. Seeing that she had so few options and the aerobics show WAS HER LIFE would have made the allure of Sue a little stronger. I would have liked a little more about how Sue thinks of Elizabeth, just how much do they remember? The old man/medical intern as a comparison would have been nice as well.

Still, the bombastic end worked. Literally spitting up a boob to appease men made me think a bit...but then I realize I'm just a slave to my Y chromosome!. Women engage in this stuff as much as men want them too.

I hope this film does well in the awards season. It's probably too uncomfortable in the wrong ways (versus Emma stone in pretty things or whatever that flick was) but I'm rooting for it.
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Regarding the relationship between Sue and Elizabeth:

I took it as it was the same consciousness moving between bodies. she knew what she was doing after the warning with the finger but was willing to sacrifice her older self for her career and own selfishness. Just like she had already done herself years earlier and was evident her life was completely empty without the show and what drove her to use the substance in the first place. Maybe

Need to watch it again.

Also The Tit came out of her eye socket at the end unless I was mistaken lol. Good stuff.
 
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Heimdall_Xtreme said:
So it's a strong movie??? I'm going to find out how repulsive it is.
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Good luck!

It's partly almost ASMR type audio of bodily functions like chewing stuff, then very candid and uncomfortable close-ups of bodies and needles, and finally very grotesque practical effects and extreme gore. Not quite to the extreme of something like the Terrifier films, more like what we got with low budget horror films in the 80's/90's paired with a bit of the Eli Roth torture aesthetic. For a modern film it's pretty extreme.
 
All that "substance" gets very old after the first 30 minutes or so. After that it's just the same shit only more gross.
Cut the movie in half and you lose absolutely nothing.
It's a shame 'cose the message, as spoon fed as it is, it's a revelant one these days.

All in all bloated as hell, with way too much of that Death Stranding's chick ass and Demi's vomit.
 
jason10mm said:
Good luck!

It's partly almost ASMR type audio of bodily functions like chewing stuff, then very candid and uncomfortable close-ups of bodies and needles, and finally very grotesque practical effects and extreme gore. Not quite to the extreme of something like the Terrifier films, more like what we got with low budget horror films in the 80's/90's paired with a bit of the Eli Roth torture aesthetic. For a modern film it's pretty extreme.
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I'm at the cinema... And the room is empty like in Wish. I'm on vacation.
 
Heimdall_Xtreme said:
😐
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People, especially young people, are obsessed with unrealistic beauty standards. A movie like this could shake their views up. I don't see anything wrong with showing this movie to a crowd of 18+ years old.

Anything is better than watching TikTok and browsing Instagram and if we can save 3 people, it's a win.
 
Shaki12345 said:
People, especially young people, are obsessed with unrealistic beauty standards. A movie like this could shake their views up. I don't see anything wrong with showing this movie to a crowd of 18+ years old.

Anything is better than watching TikTok and browsing Instagram and if we can save 3 people, it's a win.
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This film is aimed at middle aged women though, because the young woman got all the fame and attention. Its more about how femininity is defined by youth and trying to chase it is futile.
 
jason10mm said:
This film is aimed at middle aged women though, because the young woman got all the fame and attention. Its more about how femininity is defined by youth and trying to chase it is futile.
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This movie isn't aimed at anyone specifically, because before going in it isn't clear what it's about. You'll find out when watching.

In the end this movie has a message for everyone. If you think it's only for women, tou clearly misunderstood the message of the director. Read some interviews.
 
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Shaki12345 said:
This movie isn't aimed at anyone specifically, because before going in it isn't clear what it's about. You'll find out when watching.

In the end this movie has a message for everyone. If you think it's only for women, tou clearly misunderstood the message of the director. Read some interviews.
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Oh, I get the bits aimed at men, but if you think about it Quaids character isn't all that bad. He replaced an ageing Demi and guess what, the ratings SKYROCKETED. And did he ever flirt with, make a sexual advance towards, or do anything inappropriate to Qually? Nope. She CHOSE to act the way she did, he just advanced her career and got her on a 50 million viewer NYE show.

Now the decision to have topless dancers is odd, though it's never shown that it was HIS decision (and any mans decision, really) and if Quaid and some old white men oogled some boobs on display, well, that's basically genetically hardwired into us so its kinda like mocking someone with downs syndrome :P All he is really guilty of is eating like a slob and being callous to Demi when she gets replaced. But given her lavish condo it's not like she hasn't profited from the show herself.

So I still think the film is very clearly aimed at middle aged women with just a few side jabs at other groups.
 
jason10mm said:
Oh, I get the bits aimed at men, but if you think about it Quaids character isn't all that bad. He replaced an ageing Demi and guess what, the ratings SKYROCKETED. And did he ever flirt with, make a sexual advance towards, or do anything inappropriate to Qually? Nope. She CHOSE to act the way she did, he just advanced her career and got her on a 50 million viewer NYE show.

Now the decision to have topless dancers is odd, though it's never shown that it was HIS decision (and any mans decision, really) and if Quaid and some old white men oogled some boobs on display, well, that's basically genetically hardwired into us so its kinda like mocking someone with downs syndrome :p All he is really guilty of is eating like a slob and being callous to Demi when she gets replaced. But given her lavish condo it's not like she hasn't profited from the show herself.

So I still think the film is very clearly aimed at middle aged women with just a few side jabs at other groups.
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That's not my point at all. My point is that the message of the movie is that you should be happy with what you've got.

And that accounts for men and women and all age groups, especially younger people. That's the point.
 
Shaki12345 said:
That's not my point at all. My point is that the message of the movie is that you should be happy with what you've got.

And that accounts for men and women and all age groups, especially younger people. That's the point.
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I'm definitely the target audience for Margaret Qualley's arse I can assure you:)
 
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