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[Bebpo]

I'm also getting tired of the long enemy turn times and zillions of grunts. Would be a lot better if I could play it on an emu and speed things up. It hasn't gotten difficult to me yet under my run conditions. Up to 35b atm.

Not only are there tons of grunts, but every map seems to start the enemies far enough back that the first turn is just moving my units all forward and I have to wait for the next turn to start attacking. I remember the maps in Z2-1 being small enough that the action would start right away.

In all the SRW games I find the 2nd most boring thing (besides watching enemy turns) to be having to move all my units across a map to get to the enemy. At least the maps are still medium size at largest so it's only 1 turn moving 20 units. In Alpha 3 some of these maps are so freaking big it takes 2-3 turns of moving 20 units to reach the main enemy group.


I'm just glad the enemy turn speed is fairly quick. If it was like the PS1 games with this many grunt units it'd be unplayable for me.

 

[Pureauthor]

Map 45

Spoiler

WTF WHY DID YOU KILL OFF CARLOS HE WAS MY FAVORITE OG CHARACTER IN Z2

Plus we haven't even seen his backstory of why he hates the world so much and wants a revolution.

This reminds me of Z2-1 when Aimu (I dunno what the romaji spelling his for his name) died without the story ever explaining wtf he was trying to do. BUT THEN HE CAME BACK in Z2-2 so it was all good. This makes me hope that Carlos will be back too since they still need to cover his backstory. I HOPE HE COMES BACK

Plus it seems like no one ever dies in SRW considering I just saw Shioni in this map which is wtf because she kind of EXPLODED IN A SHIP last game. A ship that was IN OUTER SPACE ON THE SEALED MOON at that. Will be interesting to see how they explain (if they even bother) her getting back ok.

Anyhow, in Insaram now. This could be interesting...

Shioni first shows up in Stage 15. If you park Esther at a certain spot on the southeast area of the map, you'll meet her and she gives you an item that restores all your SP once per map.

Edit: Also it might be because I'm doing a Super Robot runthrough first but in between Continuous Movement, Spirit and Accel I'm having little issue with reaching the enemy on turn 1.

 

[Lostconfused]

I'm just glad the enemy turn speed is fairly quick. If it was like the PS1 games with this many grunt units it'd be unplayable for me.

Yeah for me the first turn is more of a strategic chaining of continuous action to get as many units into the fight as possible. You can move Arios across the entire map in a single phase if you can trigger continuous action. The rest half way across the map, definitely enough to be the middle of enemy units when their phase starts.

But certainly several units do end up staying out of action on the first turn.

 

[Lucis]

Map 45

Spoiler

WTF WHY DID YOU KILL OFF CARLOS HE WAS MY FAVORITE OG CHARACTER IN Z2

Plus we haven't even seen his backstory of why he hates the world so much and wants a revolution.

This reminds me of Z2-1 when Aimu (I dunno what the romaji spelling his for his name) died without the story ever explaining wtf he was trying to do. BUT THEN HE CAME BACK in Z2-2 so it was all good. This makes me hope that Carlos will be back too since they still need to cover his backstory. I HOPE HE COMES BACK

Plus it seems like no one ever dies in SRW considering I just saw Shioni in this map which is wtf because she kind of EXPLODED IN A SHIP last game. A ship that was IN OUTER SPACE ON THE SEALED MOON at that. Will be interesting to see how they explain (if they even bother) her getting back ok.

Anyhow, in Insaram now. This could be interesting...

Spoiler

They didn't, they'll even bring back Euphemia in if route. Heck, only the main villian in 2.2 is the same as 2.1 (even the purpose is different)

 

[Jubern]

I'm not quite there yet so I can't check myself, but I've read countless times that (If route spoilers)

Spoiler

Euphemia is dead, it's just a vision or something in the ZONE.

 

[mjemirzian]

Not only are there tons of grunts, but every map seems to start the enemies far enough back that the first turn is just moving my units all forward and I have to wait for the next turn to start attacking. I remember the maps in Z2-1 being small enough that the action would start right away.

I had that problem with SRW 64 where you started on huge maps with yourself and enemies on opposite ends. That was an older game, though. Pretty sure you have more mobility options in z2-2 to get places faster. The enemy turns on the PS SRWs take less time than z2-2 if you're using an emu and you can speed it up to 1500%.

Just completed 35b,

Spoiler

the one where you start out at 70 morale and can't use any seishins. The easiest way to get the SP is defeat 16 enemies. It took a bit of planning to avoid anyone dying. I mainly relied on defensive supports and Amuro/Quattro with lots of +mobility equipped. You'd probably end up with casualties with no items equipped.. this is prob easier in 35a with all the supers on that split.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I just finished Scenario 25.

Spoiler

Poor Ester/Esther. I was definitely not expecting that to happen.

 

[Bebpo]

Scenario 47/48:

Spoiler

MAZINGER FINALE. Hmmm, was not that epic for all the crazy background story stuff going on with ZEUS and 1,000s of years of history, etc... For all the flash and coolness of the new Mazinger, in the end it seemed like a fairly small scope story done with love and style (which is the impression I got from the first 8 or so eps of the TV series). Dr. Hell and his 3 cronies want to take over the world, Kouji fights them in Mazinger a bunch of times; they gang up and challenge him to a fight. He beats them, Ashura remembers his/her past and helps Kouji finishes Dr. Hell, the detective guy indicates there might be something more and he's working for someone but nothing is named. 100 rocket punches. The end.

I dunno, I don't think the finale should have been so early in the game, with 13 stages still remaining. I felt that Z2 was SHIN MAZINGER's game as the star since Mazinger is synonymous with SRW and he's in the center of both covers, but it felt like they're finishing up his story line early in the finale like Votoms and it just makes it seems like less important. I think they could have made it a lot more grand and epic near the final stages, with more enemies, tougher bosses, and a Dr. Hell who at least attacks twice per round.

Still, there were good things about the map. Pigman sprite = so awesome! The little dialogue where all the women in the game gang up on Brocken for being a sexist bastard was cute. Ashura robot's sprite was good. 100 rocket fist animation was...ok. Didn't like that it re-used Big Bang Punch animations for what is his FINAL ANIMATION. I dunno, I think as a whole a lot of the sprites in Z2 feel closer to the DS animations that are fully of cut-in cut-in cut-in used dramatically instead of actual well-animated sprite animation. I sort of hoped/expected at least the final attacks for each new Z2 robot would get really amazing animation. /shrug.

Quick question about Mazinger's plot. For half of the Z2 series, Dr. Hell is digging up something on the island he lives on. What was he digging up? Was it Kuro no Eichi (The Black Knowledge), or was it the Super Robot he pilots in the finale? Or was it something else? Kind of confused at what he was doing down there most of the series.

GODBLESS DANCOUGAR FINALE: (or GODBLESS UNIVERSE I AM MR. GEASS). Good map! Liked it better than the Mazinger one thanks to how it had multiple stories going on at once with Godmars, Macross F, Dancouger stuff all happening in the enemy base. Plus any map where Basara takes over Ranka's stage and starts singing Dynamite Explosion is great. Also I'm sort of confused. Did we get the 2nd half of Godmars story here with Gestalt Metal? There didn't seem to be much story in there. Just like HEY I'M GESTALT. DEVIL RING!!! ARMORED PERSON SAVIOR. DOUBLE ATTACK ON GESTALT. WE WIN. OH IT'S ROSE POSSESSED BY MARG. Didn't really seem like half a show worth of story and I thought Marg had a mech or something in the 2nd half. Btw, Godmars is a weird animation main unit. In all of Z2 he gains like 1 attack in his tiny form and 1 in his real form which is just a combination of the other animations for final godmars attack. He has 4 attacks! And 3 animations. And that's...it! You'd think they could give him a new attack or something in Z2-2. Especially if they were giving him more story.

Muge sprite again is cool. Like how many "people" sprites we're getting in Z2. I hope it's a trend for SRW from here on out since some mecha series have their dramatic fights in non-mecha form.

Dancougar/Nova combo attack is long-awaited and pretty good. I like the animation, I really do, but again, if you take out the higher-detail sprite advantage, I swear this animation could've been straight out of K or W. It's ALL cut-ins and almost zero animation. I kind of feel like the SRW team is getting cheap and trying to have more units, more attacks, at the cost of fewer animation frames and while that is good, I could do with a few less support units, a few less attacks, if the actual sprite animation is mindblowingly awesome level. Even Dancougar Final's final attack is pretty sad compared to its Alpha 3 animation. Just a beam up and then beam down. But it's saved at the last minute by throwing the physical sword through the enemies head on a dynamic kill

Also just an aside, but for all the further hinting in Z2 that Roger/The Big O is of some epic importance in the multi-dimensional universe alongside Aquairion (which makes sense for Aquarion considering he travels across dimensions over 10,000s of years fighting bad guys), I hope they actually make new plot for The Big O in Z3 along with new attacks/upgrades. Big O/Roger/Dorothy are some of my favorite characters in the Z series and since Big O TV had such a shitty ending, I'd like them to have the freedom in Z to write some new original Big O story to conclude Roger's tale. They also NEED TO ADD GIANT ROBO OVA TO Z3 so they can have Big O/Giant Robo/Tetsujin 28 team attack

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

On Scenario 40 now.

Spoiler

I have to say, Kallen has the best upgrade in the game. The new Guren is just too cool. She was already my ace pilot across both games but this is just healthy helping of icing on the cake.

 

[Bebpo]

Yeah, Kallen was my strongest pilot and #1 Ace in both Z2-1 and Z2-2. Her strongest attack is high damage, goes through barriers, has size ignore, and only costs 35EN per use and she can have a lot of EN. Meanwhile on defense she has good dodge, nice armor and a barrier to absorb damage. And she has good movement.

She is like Chiroko if he could fly, have good movement, actually had good armor, and had infinite number of his strongest attack. Though Chiriko wins on pure damage numbers with all his high criticals and 2.5x damage tamashi (since Kallen only has 2x nekketsu). But then again Kallen's nekketsu is only 35 SP cost and since you never have to use any other seishin with her you can spam it, whereas Chiriko's tamashii is only a few times a map use.

 

[Jubern]

About Shin Mazinger finale :

Spoiler

It was totally different in the anime. Like, the awesome x10. Maybe they'll do it next game, since we don't really know what happened to Ashura and Inspector Ankokuji DID mention "Blade"... Or maybe they'll just leave that way, they have a pretty good reason to do so.

As I said before, you should really watch the series proper, if only for its conclusion. Material covered in Z2 starts in episode 13 (Lorelei's arc).

 

[Bebpo]

Then again, I raise the question of why they didn't make the finale as awesome as it was in the anime? They are capable of doing it and they do great finales for some series, and you'd think Shin Mazinger is the #1 most important series in Z2 to get right because of Mazinger's representation of the SRW series. Just seems odd to have the finale be

Spoiler

"Yo kouji, let's forget all this plot stuff and just have a BIG BRAWL" The end.

 

[Pureauthor]

Then again, I raise the question of why they didn't make the finale as awesome as it was in the anime? They are capable of doing it and they do great finales for some series, and you'd think Shin Mazinger is the #1 most important series in Z2 to get right because of Mazinger's representation of the SRW series. Just seems odd to have the finale be

Spoiler

"Yo kouji, let's forget all this plot stuff and just have a BIG BRAWL" The end.

Well, I'm not sure if you know, this, but it would pretty much be functionally impossible to properly do the end of the Shin Mazinger plot in SRW. Don't want to spoil it here if you don't know.

 

[Bebpo]

Ok, fine. I will watch the anime after I finish the game.

 

[Absol]

Well, fuck. I thought I was in the clear getting the IF/Zexis route since I had the Roger/Dorothy convo in stage 27 or so. Just got done stage 38 and

Spoiler

Shirley died

. Baaah. Looking up the requirements again and it seems to have changed now. Last time I saw them at the Zero vs Zero stage, you lose points if you destroy Heero so I killed Wufei instead. Now, it seems you get more points for shooting down Heero. Time to find a save online

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I'm not going to bother with the IF/Zexis route first time around. I heard that you get the choice automatically if you're on a second playthrough. Not sure if that is true though.

 

[Jubern]

Definitely NOT true.

The exact requirements for the If route should be out pretty soon, though, with the perfect guide release around the corner.

 

[Bebpo]

If all else fails, be like me and only deploy the Black Knights for 2-3 maps and let them get all the kills. Having them all or most of them as 70+ kill ACE pilots, seems to make up for any events you were supposed to have done.

I never deployed C.C. (so she never shot down anise), didn't have Suzaku & Crew shoot down a bunch of enemies, probably messed up on the Heero/Wufei stuff. But I fed the Black Knights a ton of kills and that got me it on 2nd attempt at map 38. I didn't even get the Roger conversation at map27 because I wasn't on the path at that point and it was only after that when I kill fed the Black Knights that it put me on the Zexis path.

 

[mjemirzian]

I hope it doesn't have anything to do with kill counts. I've got most of the +1s from those lists of conditions you have to meet, but CC, Kallen, and the minor pilot's kill counts are pretty low.

 

[Bebpo]

Well, you can always keep a backup save 3 maps prior to 38 and if you don't get it, redo those maps focusing on kill counts.

 

[Absol]

I don't have the time for a second play through so I really wanted to get the Zexis route first time around.

Heh. Lucked out, found a save on Gamefaqs, right before the route split for 38. Tried the save out and

Spoiler

Shirley lives

. Guess I'm going to be using his save instead.

I'm not sure its all about the kills. Decided to use a kills up cheat on stage 38 for the black knights. By the end of 38 CC, Tohdoh and his cronies, and the tumor Ohgi all each around 140 kills. And got the same result. Unless of course you need to have them at a certain kills before 38 but I'm too lazy to replay five stages.

 

[Bebpo]

I don't have the time for a second play through so I really wanted to get the Zexis route first time around.

Heh. Lucked out, found a save on Gamefaqs, right before the route split for 38. Tried the save out and

Spoiler

Shirley lives

. Guess I'm going to be using his save instead.

I'm not sure its all about the kills. Decided to use a kills up cheat on stage 38 for the black knights. By the end of 38 CC, Tohdoh and his cronies, and the tumor Ohgi all each around 140 kills. And got the same result. Unless of course you need to have them at a certain kills before 38 but I'm too lazy to replay five stages.

You need to have them before stage 38. The second you start map 38 it's already decided how it will end.

Glad the save solution worked out for you. Yeah, I'd be really bummed if I had to get BAD END ROUTE after a zillion hours of playing a game. I think it's a really shitty design decision to even do something like that in a game as long as this.

 

[HaRyu]

You need to have them before stage 38. The second you start map 38 it's already decided how it will end.

Glad the save solution worked out for you. Yeah, I'd be really bummed if I had to get BAD END ROUTE after a zillion hours of playing a game. I think it's a really shitty design decision to even do something like that in a game as long as this.

Is the normal ending even considered a "bad end"? I thought it was just "normal ending" and "awesome good ending", IF route containing extra units, and certain people living.

And no, still haven't beaten game, still on 2nd to last stage.

 

[Bebpo]

I dunno. I just assume Zexis route is good end so that makes the opposite route bad end. But I have to see them both before I can decide

Speaking of which I just got to the split and made my two saves for Zexis/IF. Yay, final endgame in sight! If I play a ton this weekend I might finally finish the game with one of them!

I forgot how mean spirited and messed up Geass R2 is >_<

 

[Hasemo]

I'm thinking about starting Z1 Hakai hen on the PSP. Will not knowing what happened in Z1 be a problem? Or will it be awesome anyway?

 

[Bebpo]

On one hand it doesn't matter and it means you get 2x the amount of awesome new sprites since all the Z1 cast and their animations are new to you.

On the other hand if you're ever going to play Z1 it'll spoil the bulk of the animations from that game and certain plot points.


Storywise it hardly matters. Z1 was very much self-contained outside one subplot, Z2 is where they went crazy and made the Z story and scope 10x larger so that Z3 can give a satisfying conclusion to it all.

 

[Hasemo]

On one hand it doesn't matter and it means you get 2x the amount of awesome new sprites since all the Z1 cast and their animations are new to you.

On the other hand if you're ever going to play Z1 it'll spoil the bulk of the animations from that game and certain plot points.


Storywise it hardly matters. Z1 was very much self-contained outside one subplot, Z2 is where they went crazy and made the Z story and scope 10x larger so that Z3 can give a satisfying conclusion to it all.

Got it, thanks for clearing this up.

 

[Bebpo]

So hey, I just found out that there was 2004 Tetsujin anime directed by (Giant Robo, G Gundam, Shin Mazinger) IMAGAWA. I'm not sure how I never knew this. Guess I just never looked into anything Tetsujin.

Why didn't Z2 use that version of Tetsujin? It'd work even better if they bring in Giant Robo in Z3 since it looks like the pink coat guy is the same in both.

Also, for those who've seen it, how is the 2004 Tetsujin anime? As good as Shin Mazinger?

 

[HaRyu]

So hey, I just found out that there was 2004 Tetsujin anime directed by (Giant Robo, G Gundam, Shin Mazinger) IMAGAWA. I'm not sure how I never knew this. Guess I just never looked into anything Tetsujin.

Why didn't Z2 use that version of Tetsujin? It'd work even better if they bring in Giant Robo in Z3 since it looks like the pink coat guy is the same in both.

Also, for those who've seen it, how is the 2004 Tetsujin anime? As good as Shin Mazinger?

Maybe they wanted to have Tetsujin 28 FX in the next SRW Z game, since that one is essentially a sequel (the main character is the son of Shotaro, the protagonist of Tetsujin 28). Just a guess.

 

[Jubern]

It'd work even better if they bring in Giant Robo in Z3 since it looks like the pink coat guy is the same in both.

It actually IS the same guy. Imagawa's Giant Robo was an homage that took characters from a lot of Mitsuteru Yokoyama's works.
Also, isn't Giant Robo like never coming back because of the Yokoyama Estate and how they're supposedly assholes?

 

[Bebpo]

Also, isn't Giant Robo like never coming back because of the Yokoyama Estate and how they're supposedly assholes?

That's what the rumor was.

However, they also own the license for Tetsujin 28, which is just as big, so people are assuming whatever issues existed have now been taken care of since Tetsujin 28 is in this game. Which is good, because we need to get a full voiced version w/nice sprites of the entire Giant Robo OAV someday in SRW.

 

[Pureauthor]

I have slain armies of

Spoiler

Gagas

.

ARMIES.

 

[Bebpo]

Up to stage 53. Getting there.

This is such a long game with such high enemy counts. I've never played a SRW game before where I go into the final stages on my first run with my entire deployed cast at 100% upgrade, max weapon level, and ACE pilot status. Hell, some of my aces are at 200+ kills at this point. There's just a bijillion grunts and a lot of bosses in the game.


Also, while the game is great and all, the fact that so many shows featured in Z2 fell apart by the end of their animes means these last 15 stages or so of finales are just a clusterfuck of bad plot >_< It's not really their fault since that's just how the animes were, but the game is a little boring right now because all the plots all suck and the OG plot is a bit thin. I think a lot of the series like Geass R2, and OO S2, and Wing are better in the first half of the game when things are happening and not Wakamoto Emperor giving 10 min long lectures that make no sense and Millardo making no sense and A-Laws being pointless as usual.

Hopefully Z3 will be mainly AWESOME series with great finales so it ends on a high note. Though OO movie is already a pain in their side, but hopefully they get rid of it quickly in Z3.

 

[fionel]

Up to stage 53. Getting there.

This is such a long game with such high enemy counts. I've never played a SRW game before where I go into the final stages on my first run with my entire deployed cast at 100% upgrade, max weapon level, and ACE pilot status. Hell, some of my aces are at 200+ kills at this point. There's just a bijillion grunts and a lot of bosses in the game.

I've been doing a no-upgrade/no pilot upgrade run while collecting all the skill points up til stage 31 now. I had to squeeze almost every last bit of juice from my units to get the SR in the last few stages already. Do you think that will still remain possible til at least the point you're at?

I have been having a blast doing what I'm doing but if it eventually becomes more frustrating than fun than I might have to rethink how I choose to play.

 

[cartman414]

I don't have the time for a second play through so I really wanted to get the Zexis route first time around.

Heh. Lucked out, found a save on Gamefaqs, right before the route split for 38. Tried the save out and

Spoiler

Shirley lives

. Guess I'm going to be using his save instead.

I'm not sure its all about the kills. Decided to use a kills up cheat on stage 38 for the black knights. By the end of 38 CC, Tohdoh and his cronies, and the tumor Ohgi all each around 140 kills. And got the same result. Unless of course you need to have them at a certain kills before 38 but I'm too lazy to replay five stages.

I much prefer the alternate Geass end here. Lol at tumor Ohgi. Never has a character gone idiot in such a drastic fashion.

 

[Bebpo]

I've been doing a no-upgrade/no pilot upgrade run while collecting all the skill points up til stage 31 now. I had to squeeze almost every last bit of juice from my units to get the SR in the last few stages already. Do you think that will still remain possible til at least the point you're at?

I have been having a blast doing what I'm doing but if it eventually becomes more frustrating than fun than I might have to rethink how I choose to play.

I'm not sure. It really depends on if they balanced it so that a no-upgrade run would be possible on all skill points.

For instance, in the 50s there's a ton of grunts and their HP is usually about 8-12k. Whenever I use a max upgrade unit I have on one, they do about 12-13k damage and kill them in 1 hit. However, when I use a no-upgrade unit that the story deploys for story reasons, they do about 4-5k damage. So the question is: with low damage attacks like that, can you kill the enemies fast enough to make the skill points? I'd say it all depends on if Terada wanted to make that possible.

 

[Bebpo]

Sure I'm playing on normal, with no personal restrictions as to upgrading or equipment, but I have to say this is probably the easiest SRW game I've ever played. Even easier than W, which was practically impossible to lose!

And I don't think playing on hard would make that much of a difference. The problem with the game's difficulty is multiple:

-Your characters have A LOT OF SP and 2x,2.5x damage multiplier seishin nekketsu and tamashi are REALLY CHEAP for a lot of people. Between SP regen, SP Get, high SPs, and characters with 50SP refill seishins...you can pretty much use nekketsu or tamashii every attack. So you have 20 deployed units with high damage attacks and 2x damage. Grunts are going to die in 1 hit and ganging up on bosses with tamashii attacks will take them out in a handful of attacks. This isn't OGG where you need to spend 2-3 rounds of YOUR ENTIRE TEAM hitting a boss with nekketsu attacks. Often it doesn't even take 1 round or half your team to take out a boss. Some of their HPs are freaking jokes at around 100k or so when your tamashii ignore barrier attacks are doing 20k damage each.

-Almost everyone's best attacks are ignore size/ignore barrier. Does this make me happy? Sure! But it kind of negates the whole point of having to put ignore size on characters and the point of the ignore barrier seishin.

-Toooons of map attacks. Every other person has a map attack! And they have big range. That combined with move again, hit and away, etc... skills make it very very easy to position in front of an enemy group, use tamashii and shoot your map attack killing all the grunts in your way and doing damage to bosses.

-Continous action, dash, SP regen, SP get, 8 skill slots....lol

-You get SO MUCH MONEY. Being able to max upgrade your units and their weapons obviously makes things easier.

-You get A LOT OF KILLS. Having ACE bonuses for all your people makes it easier.

-Lots of equipment, lots of EN restore units; it's pretty easy to spam your best weapon and not care about EN usage.

-A huge difference is by not having squads, enemies don't have support defense 90% of the time. If they did it'd actually be a lot harder, even just going by the few maps in this game where support defense enemies line up side by side and suddenly you're not 1 hit killing all the grunts. This is essentially what makes Alpha 3 a harder game than this, despite Alpha 3 being easy as well. It also makes Alpha 3 a more tedious game, so having this stuff isn't necessarily a positive.

I'm sure playing on hard mode would make it a little tougher, with more enemies that have higher HPs, higher DEF. Higher ATK doesn't really matter since you have so much SP you can use iron wall/10 dmg seishin like crazy. But there are core issues that make Z2-2 a ridiculously easy (and probably more accessible) SRW game. I'm on normal because I missed a bunch of skill points in the first 15 maps. But I've been pretty much getting every skill point since easily with my max party. I mean it'll give me a skill point of "kill all enemies in 4 rounds" and I'll do it in 2. A max upgraded party is just hilariously overpowered in this game. Even in Z2-1 I didn't have my ENTIRE deployed party maxed. Only 5 or 6 units by the end and I wasn't hitting ACE status with a lot of characters until my 2nd run. Z2-2 just throws so many grunts at you, you build up money and kills and PP more quickly than most SRWs.

It'll be interesting to see if 2nd OGs keeps the tougher difficulty of OGs and OGG, or if it's dumbed down to the difficulty licensed SRW has been for the last decade (excluding A Portable).

 

[Pureauthor]

You forgot to mention Nekki Basara.

 

[Shouta]

Normal is easy in any modern SRW. Hard is generally a better baseline.

It's not a hard game but it's a balanced one. For as powered as you can get, the scenarios are generally designed around that fact. Maxed out units aren't totally untouchable to the same degree as other SRWs. I think stats are about the only thing separating this from a "hard" SRW as the scenario design is pretty good. I guess they could get fancier with scenario events and the like but that's not something they typically do.

 

[Bebpo]

You forgot to mention Nekki Basara.

Yep, that too.

First turn:
Nekketsu + move again
Basara map buff
Hit & away move to other side of starting group
Nekketsu
Basara map buff

lol

Shouta, I have no idea how you can call this game balanced. Its broken in so many ways and every main unit is top-tier. Your units being touchable doesn't matter when you can tamashii map attack all the grunts and then gang up on bosses with seishin spam so they do at most 10dmg and you counter with 20 units hitting their best attack with nekketsu.

Without seishin, I'd agree; but all the SP counts, low-cost seishin, sp regen, sp get make it totally busted. I really can't think of an easier SRW in recent memory.

 

[Jubern]

52 If route finished... Huh?

Spoiler

So Euphie being alive wasn't bullshit? I'm... not really sure how I feel about it. Her being suddenly alive doesn't hold much importance, if any considering how long it has been since she died, so I really wonder what the point is? Maybe to make it so that Lelouch and Suzaku bitch a little less at each other should they still be around in Z3?

 

[Shouta]

Shouta, I have no idea how you can call this game balanced. Its broken in so many ways and every main unit is top-tier. Your units being touchable doesn't matter when you can tamashii map attack all the grunts and then gang up on bosses with seishin spam so they do at most 10dmg and you counter with 20 units hitting their best attack with nekketsu.

Without seishin, I'd agree; but all the SP counts, low-cost seishin, sp regen, sp get make it totally busted. I really can't think of an easier SRW in recent memory.

But you can do that in a lot of SRWs, even in OGs if you build and upgrade your characters in the right manner. Alpha 3 was the same (actually had more powerful map attackers too), a lot of the DS SRWs were as well. Turn A's mappy goodness for example was available in Z1 though a bit late comparatively. It's a little more overtly noticeable in this game because of how many units you get per stage and a few character design choices. You do get a few more unique PP skills to facilitate this but the game does have this in mind and many design choices are there because of them.

The best way to measure how stupidly easy an SRW is is by being able to finish maps with as few units used, in any form, as possible. Many of the easier SRWs you can literally just walk one unit into a cluster of enemies and counterattack destroy them and then move to another set, get the Skill Point, and still have EN or Ammo left. You can't do that in Saisei-hen. It's not braindead easy like that. I mean, it's still an easy game but it's one that is very aware of the standard and most boring ways to bulldoze SRWs.

 

[Bebpo]

The best way to measure how stupidly easy an SRW is is by being able to finish maps with as few units used, in any form, as possible. Many of the easier SRWs you can literally just walk one unit into a cluster of enemies and counterattack destroy them and then move to another set, get the Skill Point, and still have EN or Ammo left. You can't do that in Saisei-hen. It's not braindead easy like that. I mean, it's still an easy game but it's one that is very aware of the standard and most boring ways to bulldoze SRWs.

Yes you can? Put iron wall on Kallen, stick her out front alone. FUB Lelouche with his "negate under 4000 barrier" cost = 0 and buff his defense + armor equipment. Chiriko? He'll take out 30 guys with criticals before he's hit. This game is full of god-tier units.

The other SRWs, like alpha 3, or even w, are more difficult simply because they don't throw 5,000 grunts at you so you don't get the money to max upgrade many units and only a few characters hit ACE status.

The other thing about so many grunts is that by the end of the second turn every unit on your team is at 170 ki just by taking into account all the "friendly unit kills enemy = +1" that's built into the system. This does not happen in most SRWs.

Z2-2 simply has too many grunts, too many maps, the new skills are overpowered (continuous action, dash, SP GET), most units are god-tier, etc... I've already spelled out the issues above.

@3 is 10x harder than Z2-2 simply because of squad defense, making non-map attacks, non-ALL attacks weak or useless. I'm playing @3 and Z2-2 side by side and there is no doubt in my mind that @3 is a much harder game than Z2-2. Not that @3 is hard, but rather that Z2-2 is "so easy". I really think Z2-2 is the easiest SRW game ever made. Z2-1 was tougher with fewer skill slots, far less grunts, waaaaay fewer map attacks.

 

[Bebpo]

Shin Getter Robo Armageddon is sooooo good. Best series in Z2-2. If it wasn't for Shin Getter, I'd probably say Z2-1 has a better series list than Z2-2; but it evens them out.

 

[Shouta]

Yes you can? Put iron wall on Kallen, stick her out front alone. FUB Lelouche with his "negate under 4000 barrier" cost = 0 and buff his defense + armor equipment. Chiriko? He'll take out 30 guys with criticals before he's hit. This game is full of god-tier units.

Surviving up front is never an issue in SRWs, aside from outliers like SRW D, Z or AP. It's about doing it solo that is the issue. This game has lots of units can do it but it isn't as sustained as it can be.

Every game has god-tier units but whether or not that god-tier can solo Skill Points is something else. The number of grunts, map placement, and sustainability of units is balanced just to the point where those units are damn great but just parking them up front won't let you faceroll the map.

Kallen and Lelouch get pretty sick barriers but all of their attacks aside from 1 cost EN. If you don't get the Barrier Cost = 0 Bonus, their EN usage is massively bad for grunts. It's a little better with E-Save though. You certainly go with lower attack but you risk not one-shotting enemies and that means you take longer to finish the optional objective.

For reference, Lelouch can attack a max of 21 Times without E-Save or 23 with it at full unit upgrades. If you don't get the Barrier Cost FUB, his attack rate goes down every time he gets hit and it activates.

Kallen gets 24 attacks max or 29 at full upgrades but that's using her two weakest attacks which is a lower chance of destroying grunts on Hard. Her best attack gets her 16 with E-Save, 14 without.

The other SRWs, like alpha 3, or even w, are more difficult simply because they don't throw 5,000 grunts at you so you don't get the money to max upgrade many units and only a few characters hit ACE status.

Alpha 3 = Grunt central. Later stages have so many grunts. It's definitely way more than Saisei-hen. The one run I used my best MAP units, they were close to 600-700 a pop when I didn't do a carryover. And Alpha 3 has the ultimate god-tier unit in Ideon.

As a non-squad SRW, Saisei-hen has a lot of grunts but Alpha 3 has way more. I usually ace a lot of units in other SRWs on my first runs. I usually spread it out amongst my favorite and I usually have a bunch of units maxed as well.

But that aside, the value of a single maxed unit in other SRWs was much higher IMO.

@3 is 10x harder than Z2-2 simply because of squad defense, making non-map attacks, non-ALL attacks weak or useless. I'm playing @3 and Z2-2 side by side and there is no doubt in my mind that @3 is a much harder game than Z2-2. Not that @3 is hard, but rather that Z2-2 is "so easy". I really think Z2-2 is the easiest SRW game ever made. Z2-1 was tougher with fewer skill slots, far less grunts, waaaaay fewer map attacks.

There's no way Alpha 3 is harder than Saisei to me. Both are easy but Alpha 3 is face-roll easy compared to Saisei's breezy easy. You also get the MAP Trinity in Alpha 3 (Ideon, Banpreios, Alegrias) on top of some other MAP monsters in that (Battle 7, Hyperion, WZC). There are way more grunts and you get a ton of money in that. Granted, you also get way more units to upgrade but not like any of the squad filler need them.

 

[fionel]

I guess I shouldn't have asked you since you are playing "causally" on normal. Like I said I have placed this no upgrades/pp restriction on myself while getting all the SR at the same time. From past experience I knew that skills like SP regen is broken so I refrained from using PP at all. So none of my pilots have that or move again.

None of my units can 1-shot kill grunts easily and most of them can get shot down from 2-4 hits b/c of the lack of upgrades. Sure the AI is dumb as ever and I can still sort of seishin spam with so many pilots/sub-pilots, but with so many grunts, in order to get the SR (which of course often requires you to kill all enemies within a few turns) I have to plan out what units to use to attack what groups on enemy. Since I do not have the move again skill I am really forced to maximize the use of my resources to meet such a goal.

Playing the game that way is so much fun for me as I can no longer stand the mindless bulldozing in the average SRW game. However as I said before playing this way could possibly lead to a dead end because you said there are so many grunts to take care of. I think i would probaby lose the motivation to keep on playing if that were the case.

 

[mjemirzian]

Several posters on gfaqs have done a no upgrade/pp run w/ all skill points in z2-2 already. One has claimed to do a no upgrade/pp/items equipped run w/ all skill points.

My progress has stalled, been busy and/or playing other games. But anyway, if you didn't know, I'm also doing a similar no upgrade/pp run and uploading it to youtube. You can check the current playlist here. The full list of challenge conditions is in the playlist description if you're interested in reading it.

I didn't find 32 all that difficult. The most difficult thus far was 35b.. haven't tried 36 yet. Actually, most of the real route scenarios are significantly more difficult than the super route scenarios.

 

[Lostconfused]

Getting all the +Will skills rolled into a single one is kinda broken as well. So pilots get +2 Will instead of just 1 for every kill and it lets you activate continuous action at 114 Will instead of 115. Which can compound into a rather large number of dead grunts even on the first turn.

Maybe later on maps have a ton of grunt suits to feed Will to your entire team but with that +Will skill it's entirely possible to have 170 Will without any spirit commands by the start of turn 2.

Playing the game that way is so much fun for me as I can no longer stand the mindless bulldozing in the average SRW game. However as I said before playing this way could possibly lead to a dead end because you said there are so many grunts to take care of. I think i would probaby lose the motivation to keep on playing if that were the case.

If you are losing motivation than it doesn't sound like you are having fun, at least to me.

 

[mjemirzian]

It is important to have fun when you're playing. If a challenge is too frustrating, just drop it and enjoy yourself, then maybe you can try again with more experience or skill or whatever. Or if it's just heavy on grinding or randomness, I don't think it would be worth it either way. People call me a masochist for doing challenges, but I usually enjoy myself when I'm playing through them. That just happens to be the skill level I'm capable of playing at without getting too frustrated.

 

[Bebpo]

Hmm, I think in general Z2's approach to relegating mech upgrade modes and upgrades to single attack animations instead of a persistant mode or a new unit is a bit lame. Never seen them do it before in a SRW and hope they move away from this in Z3.

Like Z2-1's GN Arms upgrade for Exia/Dynames, Dancougar Nova's God Beast Golden mode, Z2-2's OO Raiser's Trans-am,

Spoiler

guren arc gattai gurren lagann

. I think there were a few others too. Seemed to be a constant theme in Z2 to relegate special forms to just a single attack.

Spoiler

In Z3 they better give me goddamn GL upgraded units or I'm gonna be pissed! If you play as standard GL and just happen to do GIANT FORM GATTAIs in attacks... ugh. They really couldn't have just given you arc-gurren-lagann as an actual unit for the finale of Z2-2?