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The Swapper |OT| that other new indie game jon blow loves

Finished the game for the second time.

The second ending, the one when you chose to stay at planet, leaves you with only one option: to jump off the cliff and suicide yourself. In the end 3-in-1 joined the chain by the looks of it.

I'm surprised this game isn't getting more attention. I'll be honest, I had no idea what I was looking at when first seeing the trailer weeks ago. Seemed awfully vague, but the artstyle had me intrigued. All the positive buzz is tempting me. Only thing holding me back is I'm not sure if I've grown tired of puzzlers. Maybe when I get some extra steam credit off the marketplace.

This game isn't about puzzles or chalenge, it's about deep story, depressing music and eerie atmosphere of despair.
 
I'm in my second playthrough and trying to find everything but forgot:

Can you return to the beginning areas (garden, residential) from the end of the game?
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
How long did it take you? I'm like 2.7 hours played according to Steam and have like
40-60 orbs
collected.

It took me about 5 hours I'd say. The game had issues exiting the first night I played it which caused the .exe to be left running without my knowledge so that made my tracked time come out to 6ish hours.

You are about half-way through with that many orbs.
 

tokkun

Member
What's the deal with the Steam achievements in this game? I finished it and I only got two: II and VII. Since there are no descriptions, I don't know if the trophies are bugged, or if they just wanted to obfuscate how to unlock them.

Can someone please clue me in on how to solve this room? I run out of clones and can't figure out how to get rid of one. Any clues?

09818B9E62DFA9451FEB300E39B559F3BA91AAB8

If you're still stuck, hint:
kill a clone by walking into him.
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
What's the deal with the Steam achievements in this game? I finished it and I only got two: II and VII. Since there are no descriptions, I don't know if the trophies are bugged, or if they just wanted to obfuscate how to unlock them.

There are 10 super hidden rooms and each achievement is given for finding one of them.
 

Atomski

Member
So played a good chunk last night and today.. think this is already a GOTY contender for me. Its giving me that warm fuzzy feeling inside. Love the puzzles and the story is mysterious enough that its keeping me interested.
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
Anyone looking for these?
I'm still missing VII VIII and X and so far have no idea where they could be. Still looking in the solar panel areas.

I assume someone will throw a guide together at some point. I don't find these kind of searches very appealing though.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I'm surprised I didn't find the one with the message I mentioned on the last page on my own, since I thought I was checking rooms pretty thoroughly. Given that I didn't find that I may not find any others though.

I'll probably just follow a guide or whatever as well, since the rooms seem almost too much like Braid's ultra secret collectibles for my taste.
 

tokkun

Member
I assume someone will throw a guide together at some point. I don't find these kind of searches very appealing though.

Agreed. It pretty much requires you to hug up against every wall, fall down every pit, etc. And the tediousness of doing that quadruples once you get to the
anti-gravity
part, because it means that you need to try backtracking to all the areas before that and seeing if there are any hidden passages
on the ceilings.
 
Alright found all the secret rooms. If someone cares about the cheevos or the messages I could make a small guide where you can find them.
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
Alright found all the secret rooms. If someone cares about the cheevos or the messages I could make a small guide where you can find them.

Make a Steam guide. 1 image of the map open showing the location and 1-2 screens showing the actual area to "transport" to. Link it in here and we will all favorite and like it so that it gets mad street cred.
 

justjim89

Member
Some of these gravity puzzles with the 9 orb sets are absolutely baffling. Especially with red light and huge drops fucking everywhere. This game is starting to get frustrating.
 

Quote

Member
Just finished it. Amazing. Some of the puzzles can seem super complicated but really they never are when you look back, which makes them great.

Now I need to do it again for the other ending and find all the secret rooms.
 

mavs

Member
That's a hell of a game. The art and music are great, but the gameplay takes up so much attention that they get pushed pretty deep in the background. The creepy vibe does hold the entire experience together though.
 
This game is messing with my head. This is insane, it really feels like 2001.

I have 24 Orbs but doing any of the other Trigon feels really hard, need to come back to it with a clearer mind.
 

Hofmann

Member
This game is messing with my head. This is insane, it really feels like 2001.

I have 24 Orbs but doing any of the other Trigon feels really hard, need to come back to it with a clearer mind.

I was expecting it to be more challenging. Puzzles are really well designed. Sometimes though, I felt like the difficulty level was jumping from one to another. I know you didn't have to solve them sequentially, but coming from one location with a ''complicated '' puzzle to the nearest one, where you've spent lot of time thinking how to solve it and the solution actually was extremely straightforward and easy was weird.
 

justjim89

Member
Not gonna lie, I was a little disheartened to see that you need to
find all the orbs, presumably,
to beat the game. I've already had to look up the solutions to three puzzles, and it made me feel dirty. But fuck that 4 switches room with the 4 walls. No way I'd have figured that out on my own.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I actually stopped playing at the 4 switches room, though partly because it was getting late and I wanted to come back to it. I've been occasionally thinking about it. I may be stubborn and not play the game further if I don't think up the solution on my own. :p
 

epmode

Member
The four button puzzle was the one that stumped me. I checked a video in shame. ..and then felt better about not figuring it out because it's a little bullshitty.
 

Hofmann

Member
But fuck that 4 switches room with the 4 walls. No way I'd have figured that out on my own.

From what I remember this particular puzzle was quite easy for me - it's funny how relative it could be. I was stuck for a bit with the one, where you have to
leave two clones before taking the elevator
.
 

Hofmann

Member
The four button puzzle was the one that stumped me. I checked a video in shame. ..and then felt better about not figuring it out because it's a little bullshitty.

Ok, out of curiosity I checked the video on youtube, because I didn't remember exactly how I did it, and this is really convulted way to solve this puzzle - what I did on my playthrough was two times faster and a lot easier.
 
I hate to post this, but I was actually pretty disappointed upon finishing the game. It's a well-designed puzzle game, but there's so many unanswered questions and the game doesn't really deliver on on the philosophical themes it touches on. We don't ever find out
the nature of the Watchers, how and why they killed the crew, how the Swapper was developed from studying them, the fate of the 3-in-1 person and the Head Swapper, and so on.
The ending feels unsatisfying because, regardless of the choice you make, neither provides any meaning because you don't fully understand its context. It feels like it introduces a philosophical hook in bad faith because it throws out the idea of a soul separate from a physical brain, but doesn't address the implications. Not to mention that the game never explains why security access throughout the station requires overcoming puzzles only solvable with a newly-developed technology. That last part is a small quibble, but it reinforces the fact that the game's narrative and thematic elements aren't really integrated with its mechanics in a way that provides meaning.

I haven't discovered any of the secret rooms, so perhaps there are major revelations within them that provide the missing answers of the main story. But if so, it doesn't seem like good design to force the player to hunt them down in order to get an adequate understanding.

Anyone with similar or opposite feelings?
 

Hofmann

Member
Anyone with similar or opposite feelings?

I've got similar impressions for a different reasons, but you shouldn't overanalyze it - it's just a puzzle game and it's good for what it is. I wouldn't complain too much, if it had unicorns and rainbows as a main theme - If you want to play good exploration game with cohesive story try Kairo.
 

Quote

Member
I left the 4-button puzzle for last. The solution was so silly once you figured it out, but I still felt like a BA in the end.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I'm only halfway through the story, but it has bugged me a bit so far with some of the voice acting or logs. It feels to me like it varies a bit between pretentious (the messages on the mysterious rocks) and a bit inconsistent (can't really elaborate more on this until I see how the rest of the game goes, I might change my mind).

Yes it's a puzzle game, but if it were JUST a puzzle game I'd say even 5 hours of light puzzles could get a bit old. Trying to tie things into a story and provide atmosphere is something that is presumably intended to set it apart from other puzzle games.
 
I've got similar impressions for a different reasons, but you shouldn't overanalyze it - it's just a puzzle game and it's good for what it is. I wouldn't complain too much, if it had unicorns and rainbows as a main theme - If you want to play good exploration game with cohesive story try Kairo.

The point is that it doesn't represent itself as "just a puzzle game", it comes across as a game with something to say, and it felt dishonest to provoke questions it didn't really want to answer. I don't care enough about pure puzzle games to have bought yet another one without something else to offer, and I don't think it's unreasonable to call this one out for not fulfilling its promises.

I haven't heard of Kairo, does that one do meaningful narrative any better?
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
The point is that it doesn't represent itself as "just a puzzle game", it comes across as a game with something to say, and it felt dishonest to provoke questions it didn't really want to answer. I don't care enough about pure puzzle games to have bought yet another one without something else to offer, and I don't think it's unreasonable to call this one out for not fulfilling its promises.

I haven't heard of Kairo, does that one do meaningful narrative any better?

I accidentally wrote in my Steam review that it's narrative driven gameplay. The game is so clearly a gameplay driven narrative. They came up with a fantastic gameplay mechanism and had a story written around it. I thought they pulled it off quite well, but what you do in the game is essentially what you do in Portal: do puzzle room after puzzle room.
 
I accidentally wrote in my Steam review that it's narrative driven gameplay. The game is so clearly a gameplay driven narrative. They came up with a fantastic gameplay mechanism and had a story written around it. I thought they pulled it off quite well, but what you do in the game is essentially what you do in Portal: do puzzle room after puzzle room.

Technically, aren't all game narratives gameplay driven? Regardless, the difference between this game and Portal is that the latter provided closure to what it had built up to.
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
Technically, aren't all game narratives gameplay driven? Regardless, the difference between this game and Portal is that the latter provided closure to what it had built up to.

Yes, but different games go to different lengths to justify gameplay with narrative.

And why do all narratives require closure?
 

Blizzard

Banned
The point is that it doesn't represent itself as "just a puzzle game", it comes across as a game with something to say, and it felt dishonest to provoke questions it didn't really want to answer. I don't care enough about pure puzzle games to have bought yet another one without something else to offer, and I don't think it's unreasonable to call this one out for not fulfilling its promises.

I haven't heard of Kairo, does that one do meaningful narrative any better?
I haven't finished Kairo since I think I was stuck on a puzzle or two. Most puzzles seemed pretty simple. It's like M.C. Escher meets minimalistic Myst lite. There is a story presumably, but it's the sort (I say, having not finished the game so take my words with a grain of salt) that you get by looking at architecture. Not at all so clear as the Swapper style of text logs etc.

Also, I feel like the difference between the Portal games and a lot of puzzle games with plot/humor/writing is that the Portal games actually do those things "well" in my opinion, even though Wheatley was rather annoying. Coherent plot, interesting characters, etc.

At any rate, I did two more Swapper puzzles tonight, including the 4-switch one. I realize there may be multiple 4-switch puzzles and here is the one that was bugging me (no solution, just a picture of the puzzle):
http://abload.de/img/theswapper2013-06-022ymegg.png

The solution wasn't that bad (maybe 10-20 minutes of fiddling but I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed) so there are probably harder ones that the rest of you are talking about.
 

taoofjord

Member
Almost two hours in and loving it. The game is really great looking (aside from the player character's design and animation) and the sound and atmosphere are perfect. It's one of the most immersive sci-fi games I've played since System Shock 2, quite a feat really.

The puzzles are a lot of fun, too. Great all around!
 

Hofmann

Member
The point is that it doesn't represent itself as "just a puzzle game", it comes across as a game with something to say, and it felt dishonest to provoke questions it didn't really want to answer. I don't care enough about pure puzzle games to have bought yet another one without something else to offer, and I don't think it's unreasonable to call this one out for not fulfilling its promises.

Well, it's a great puzzler, visually stunning, with some eerie atmosphere and a good premise for the story - I think it was worth the price I paid. I don't expect miracles from a puzzle driven game, because it's impossible to create one, with some exceptions for a specific setting, usually involving being a test subject in some experiment or something completely abstract. In a context of a real world, placing puzzles in almost every room doesn't make much sense.

I haven't heard of Kairo, does that one do meaningful narrative any better?

I don't know what do you mean by meaningful, again, it's a relative term. But yeah, in Kairo puzzles are a part of the world and they do make a sense. They are integral to the narrative; their purpose as you play is to transform the world, but you have to remember they're not difficult, because that's not what they suppose to achieve, so again it depends on expectations. Kairo is an exploration game mainly - you may even call it notgame - although there are a lot of puzzles, with a cryptic story, told almost entirely without words, so you have to be attentive to your environment to make any sense out of it - but it's definitely there. Some say it's boring, but I loved it.
 
I don't think a story merely stopping is a problem. I didn't think the place this game "stopped" was wrong.

I'm really not sure if you're trolling me at this point. I mean, to each their own, but I don't think Red Dead Redemption's story would have been impactful if it had stopped at Dutch van der Linde's death, Half-Life 2's if it had stopped at Gordon being captured, or even Portal's if it stopped before the last test chamber. I think it's pretty natural to want a payoff for everything set up by the narrative.
 

Moobabe

Member
I'm really not sure if you're trolling me at this point. I mean, to each their own, but I don't think Red Dead Redemption's story would have been impactful if it had stopped at Dutch van der Linde's death, Half-Life 2's if it had stopped at Gordon being captured, or even Portal's if it stopped before the last test chamber. I think it's pretty natural to want a payoff for everything set up by the narrative.

Ok - but I would argue Red Dead would have been better had it ended when SERIOUS RED DEAD SPOILER
John died.
That would have been closure to me.

And to say Portal wouldn't have been as strong had it ended before the final test chamber is a stupid thing to say; you're taking a pre-existing narrative and putting an arbitrary ending in it to satisfy your point. Semantically had it ended one test chamber before the final one, then THAT would have been the final one etc
 
Ok - but I would argue Red Dead would have been better had it ended when SERIOUS RED DEAD SPOILER
John died.
That would have been closure to me.

Not to derail the thread, but technically, that *is* where the story ended, as the credits immediately follow.
His son's story
is a coda, and I'm not sure how that additional content robs what came before it of its closure.

And to say Portal wouldn't have been as strong had it ended before the final test chamber is a stupid thing to say; you're taking a pre-existing narrative and putting an arbitrary ending in it to satisfy your point. Semantically had it ended one test chamber before the final one, then THAT would have been the final one etc

How is it stupid? I think we agree that Portal has a complete story that consists of narrative hooks set up in the first half of the game and payoffs of those hooks at its natural end; can we not also agree that arbitrarily stopping it before reaching that end would defeat the purpose of the narrative? That's what I'm trying to demonstrate. In the same way that we would be frustrated if we didn't find out what the "cake" that GLaDOS promised was, I am frustrated that we didn't have the questions raised by The Swapper addressed in a satisfying fashion.
 
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