Evolution
The South was already a part of the US, and they didn't want to be apart of the US because they wanted to keep slavery legal. Please, don't refer to that period anymore because it really has no bearance on your argument. However, selling the EU and its constitution (which was recently approved) to several different member states, with different cultures with different ideals with different norms, with different economic policies, and different political structures is going to be more hard than beating the shit of the South for a heinous policy (and much less gratifying). In the end, the South was just like the North except that it didn't want to give up slavery.
The civil war in the US, is crucial to this argument. You said that the EU can never be like the US, because some countries are very sceptical of it. Yet, the South actually succeeded from the Union because of it enforcing too many powers and didn't want to be apart of it, (Just like the EU countries would have to do, so your rebuttle about how the South was still apart of the US to begin with, which in itself was hardly relevant, doesn't change much), and then it was actually FORCED upon them in a War. Yet the Union till works today. So you obviously can't say that because there is sceptimism about the EU, it won't work, and will fail.
If you split up the US into individual states again, you'd have just as much differences be apparent. I've already given an example of how different California and Texas alone are, one to the left, one to the right. Does that stop the union working? No, of course not. So ask yourself: Why does it still work in the US despite those different ideals, with different norms, etc..? These differences truly don't matter, because in the end: There will only ever be ONE majority. There's probally enough people in the US right now that believe in socialism, to create a socialist state, yet because it's in the "minority" of a "majority" it doesn't. You see how it works? Either you have no scope to understanding these things, or you just WANT the EU to be a bunch of states fighting each other.
AFAIK, the Germans and French aren't all that alike except for their staunch opposition to the Iraq war, which in turn goes in the face of the Brits which was for the war (although the people weren't, but the political system was)
This shows how much you really don't understand about Europe. The only thing they have in common is being against the Iraq War? You probally think the only reason for the EU is to oppose the US or something then. When that isn't it's purpose, and that isn't its benefits. Was the US set up to oppose all the other countries in the World? No, it was set up for the benefit of its people. They realise that together, they can offer a better quality of life to their people, THAT'S their "common goals", not opposing the War in Iraq.
But you really can't make that argument because the states was ALWAYS united, which is why it is called the US. The EU wasn't always a union, but now it wants to become one when it is almost too late of a time to do so. Are each state run differently? Yes. Do each state impose trade agreements and trade embargos on one another? No. The United States is the country, and the states are representative of the country.
But the entire point made throughout this thread is that the EU is different from the US because each and every one of the countries that are part of the EU are vastly different, but are being forced into becoming the same. Hell, what will the national language of the EU be? Even that in itself is a barrier to the EU really working.
That's the whole damn point. If they're under one system, then they won't have trade embargos on each other. And there WILL be one majority. This is the entire point. @_@ Like I say, it's almost like you're arguing with me on the basis that I'm saying a Europe with no central fedreal type structure could be like the US, as oppsoed to what I'm actually sayying, that a federal EU could be like the US.
And no, each country in the EU is not vastly different. You've yet to give a true example of how they are so vastly different (which wouldn't also apply to the US) that the EU couldn't work. The only one I can truly think of, is language. But even that, you say "Europe doesn't have an official language", well guess what, the US doesn't have an official language either. Yes, there's a larger diversity in language than the US, but that barrier has already been overcome somewhat already.
It may believe in human rights, but it is still hampered with xenophobia and elitism which prevents equal opportunity.
huh? "Elitism?" The EU suffers from more elitism than the US? Wha? And yes, there is more xenophobia within countries in the EU than the US states right now (since obviously the EU is, right now, at least, mainly a bunch of seperate countries), but that has yet to manifest itself into any genuine policy descrimination. Infact, countries are coming together, voting to be apart of the union, so obviously such xenophobia is dying down, obviously the EU is moving closer together. I mean, just like 50 years ago, half Europe was fascist, and fighting wars against each other, now look at them. It's like you think the World is just going to stay the way it is forever, can't you see the direction that progress is leading in?
I think I mentioned that. Even though the states want to do better than the other states, if one state falters then more than likely other states will falter as well because they are all still one country.The EU, however, doesn't change France from being a different country than Germany. Germany will still be independent from France, and France will be independent from Slovakia. There are so many problems that stem from the ratification and that's all I'm trying to point out. France and Germany may want the EU to do well, but does France want Germany to do better than it? That's the question.
Does California want Texas to do better than it? Still, I don't see where you're going with this. Obviously in the EU, like the US, states/countries will want their federal system to do well, they don't want other countries to do better than them.
You seem to claim that in the US the states in the system are more linked together, so they want the other states to do better? Well, first of all, that's what I'm proposing, a SYSTEM like that, for Europe. And secondly, Germany and France's economy for example, are ALREADY dependant on each other, they both have the same currency for a start, and that's actually even more things in place to stop one country faultering and going into deficit (bringing down the other states) than in the US itself. And that's NOW, relatively at the begining of a proper federal Europe.
Of course everyone works to pursue their own interest. That exists everywhere. The reason that it works in the US is because those people who work to pursue their own interests also make sure that it is in the interest of the progress of the United States. You won't see a predominantly socialist type system erupt in the US because most Americans are inherently capitalist. However, the same can't be said in many European countries. You may have a socialist type society, but if everyone wants to be a capitalist and the government does not, then you're going to have problems.
You do realise the EU is a democracy, right? If the people want the society to be capitalist, or socialist, then it will be capitalist/socialist. And as I've said before already, the people in the US only want the US to do well, BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN THE US, once an EU goverment is set up, people will want the EU to do well, because they will be apart of it, it will be for their benefit.
I mean, all the so called "in-herentally cultural differences" about the EU you keep bringing up, are all, basically, due to the system itself. In a way, you're logic is almost like this, "An EU federal system will never be like the US, because Europe, at the moment, without a federal system, isn't like the US". This in itself doesn't even make sense though, since in alot of your examples such as economics, France and Germany do already have a pretty much same economic fate (they share the same currency, etc..) and do care about the Euro as a whole, and don't want other individual states/countries to drag them down.
