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The Verge: The ACLU is launching a campaign to pardon Edward Snowden

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K

Kthulhu

Member
Several human rights organizations will soon launch a campaign urging President Obama to pardon NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, coinciding with the premiere of the Oliver Stone biopic based on his life. Motherboard reports that the American Civil Liberties Union, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and other groups will formally announce the news on Wednesday, although a largely password-protected website is already online. The project will involve a "mass signature campaign around the world," as well as an effort to get "prominent individuals and organizations" to support the cause.

Snowden currently stands accused of violating the Espionage Act for his 2013 document leaks, and the Obama administration has already denied public requests to pardon him. Last year, homeland security and counterterrorism advisor Lisa Monaco responded to an official White House petition, saying that Snowden’s "dangerous decision" to release classified material revealing American mass surveillance programs "had severe consequences for the security of our country."

But this summer, Snowden’s ACLU counsel Ben Wizner said he would be making a strong case for a pardon in the months before Obama leaves office. Now, he hopes that Snowden’s sympathetic portrayal of its protagonist, played by Joseph Gordon-Levitt, will bolster public support. "I think Oliver [Stone] will do more for Snowden in two hours than his lawyers have been able to do in three years," he told Motherboard. Snowden will appear in theaters on Friday, two days after the campaign launches.

While Stone himself recently expressed hope that Obama would pardon Snowden, he acknowledged that it would be a dramatic reversal. Even so, Obama seems more likely to do so than current presidential nominees Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump — and as we’ve written, it would help reverse eight years of secrecy and aggressive retaliation against whistleblowers. It would also end years of uncertainty for Snowden, who has unsuccessfully sought asylum in several countries since leaving the US in 2013. He is currently living in Russia on a temporary residency permit, which will expire next year.
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Source: http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/12/12888452/aclu-pardon-edward-snowden-movie-campaign-obama

Pardon me if old.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
As far as I don't see this happening, they've got a point that Obama might be the best shot he's going to get for many, many years.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
The fact that he is in Russia and we have no idea what he has told Russian intelligence or if he has aided them in any way killed any microscopic chance he ever had at getting a pardon
 
F

Fox318

Member
You don't do what he did and not know or understand what the consequences are.

Whether you look at him as a martyr or a traitor you don't reveal national secrets and not face the consequences of that.

Same could be said for Manning.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
VendettaRed07 said:
The fact that he is in Russia and we have no idea what he has told Russian intelligence or if he has aided them in any way killed any microscopic chance he ever had at getting a pardon
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To be fair, he has spoken out against Putin and Russian government even while he is living in Russia, so not like he's another Julian Assange.

Also, Eric Holder has talked about he thinks Snowden should still be put on trial, but that he should be given a light sentence if convicted.

I would never expect a full on pardon, but I could see a plea deal maybe happening.

Fox318 said:
You don't do what he did and not know or understand what the consequences are.

Whether you look at him as a martyr or a traitor you don't reveal national secrets and not face the consequences of that.

Same could be said for Manning.
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The difference is that Manning/Assange just did a reckless data dump whereas Snowden worked with journalists to make sure no one got hurt or endangered by what he revealed.
 
P

Paskil

Member
Whether what he did is right or wrong, as a government, you cannot pardon him this close to the time of his crime. Any type of leniency legitimizes his actions and basically waves a green flag for anyone thinking about doing the same, now, or in the future. I think the guy deserves a pardon at some point because of the care he took in releasing his information, but as other posters pointed out, we have no idea what other information he might have disclosed or if he had to "pay" to get his temporary resident permit in Russia.
 
M

Megalosaro

Banned
Fox318 said:
You don't do what he did and not know or understand what the consequences are.

Whether you look at him as a martyr or a traitor you don't reveal national secrets and not face the consequences of that.

Same could be said for Manning.
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If the government was secretly rounding up us citizens and detaining then indefinitely, and someone revealed that, would you say they're revealing "national secrets"
 
P

Plumbob

Member
Fox318 said:
You don't do what he did and not know or understand what the consequences are.

Whether you look at him as a martyr or a traitor you don't reveal national secrets and not face the consequences of that.

Same could be said for Manning.
Click to expand...

Snowden could be prepared to face the consequences AND deserve pardon. The two are not mutually exclusive.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Paskil said:
Whether what he did is right or wrong, as a government, you cannot pardon him this close to the time of his crime. Any type of leniency legitimizes his actions and basically waves a green flag for anyone thinking about doing the same, now, or in the future. I think the guy deserves a pardon at some point because of the care he took in releasing his information, but as other posters pointed out, we have no idea what other information he might have disclosed or if he had to "pay" to get his temporary resident permit in Russia.
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What about a combination of a plea bargain and later on having his sentence reduced?

Plumbob said:
Snowden could be prepared to face the consequences AND deserve pardon. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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So what about a plea deal?
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
There's one person that matters, the president.

He's not getting a pardon
Now, he hopes that Snowden’s sympathetic portrayal of its protagonist, played by Joseph Gordon-Levitt, will bolster public support. "I think Oliver [Stone] will do more for Snowden in two hours than his lawyers have been able to do in three years," he told Motherboard. Snowden will appear in theaters on Friday, two days after the campaign launches.
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I love this quote. We hope a Russian influenced fantastical, and uncritical fictional movie changes people
 
H

Henkka

Banned
Yeah let's just set the precedent that divulging classified information pertaining to national security is no biggie, you may even get pardoned on top of becoming world famous and getting a Hollywood movie made about you. What could go wrong?

Even if you think what he did was morally right, pardoning him is not wise.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Henkka said:
Yeah let's just set the precedent that divulging classified information pertaining to national security is no biggie, you may even get pardoned on top of becoming world famous and getting a Hollywood movie made about you. What could go wrong?

Even if you think what he did was morally right, pardoning him is not wise.
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Yeah. Rule of law stands above any individual in this country.

Give him house arrest and probation. But he should not be pardoned.
 
F

Fox318

Member
Plumbob said:
Snowden could be prepared to face the consequences AND deserve pardon. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...

Megalosaro said:
If the government was secretly rounding up us citizens and detaining then indefinitely, and someone revealed that, would you say they're revealing "national secrets"
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The morality to his actions don't absolve him of those actions being directly detrimental to the interests and security of the United States.

If Obama does pardon him it would probably be the single last thing he did as President and it could set a poor precedent for those with national security information.

It could also hijack the agenda of the next President and if its Hillary she will already go in with at the very least very high unfavorables.

Is there an example of a spy or informant coming with with info like Snowden did and consequences he faced?
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
From my perspective, an ideal face-saving compromise solution would be to reintstate his passport, formally drop the request for extradition, and work through backchannels to let him get to whatever country he wants to go to long-term (Norway, Ecuador, whatever) but not let him return to the US and don't drop the charges. The optics aren't too bad ("We are aware that Edward Snowden has left Russia for Norway. We continue to insist that Snowden's actions hurt American security, but he is no longer in possession of any valuable knowledge and we have bigger fish to fry to keep America safe" -- or whatever), in practice it's no different from now, and he gets a better quality of life.

Hasphat'sAnts said:
Yeah. Rule of law stands above any individual in this country.
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Pardoning (and/or commuting a sentence) is by definition part of the rule of law.
 
S

samn

Member
Fox318 said:
You don't do what he did and not know or understand what the consequences are.

Whether you look at him as a martyr or a traitor you don't reveal national secrets and not face the consequences of that.

Same could be said for Manning.
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doesn't mean he deserves to face the consequences, hence the campaign.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
The more I think about it, the more I can imagine Old Man Ed Snowden finally landing at Ronald Reagan airport and holding a short press conference in the year 2044.
 
D

Deku Tree

Member
I think Snowden gave secrets to China and Russia. The US Govt reported that all of their intelligence gathering things that they do "went dark" right when Snowden starting in Hong Kong and Russia.

He also did a great thing for humanity by revealing all the ways in which the govt and companies work together to collect our data. Which is horrifying.

Anyway IMO Snowden has no chance of getting pardoned.
 
K

Kthulhu

Member
Fox318 said:
The morality to his actions don't absolve him of those actions being directly detrimental to the interests and security of the United States.

If Obama does pardon him it would probably be the single last thing he did as President and it could set a poor precedent for those with national security information.

It could also hijack the agenda of the next President and if its Hillary she will already go in with at the very least very high unfavorables.

Is there an example of a spy or informant coking with with info like Snowden did and consequences he faced?
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Considering what he leaked and how much of it, no. Snowden's leak was unprecedented in terms of scale and content.
 
M

Megalosaro

Banned
We absolutely should set a precident on this. The governmen needs to know that it works for us.

When it does illegal stuff, I should be called put and people shouldn't be afraid of calling it out
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Kthulhu said:
Except they don't want to do that. They want a tribunal.
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Do plea deals ever happen in military tribunals?

So many people in this thread are focused on whether or not he would get pardoned, but I would think a plea deal has a much better chance of happening, especially if Snowden ever manages to get some useful dirt on Russia.

Kthulhu said:
Considering what he leaked and how much of it, no. Snowden's leak was unprecedented in terms of scale and content.
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That sounds more like what Manning/Assange did.

Remember, it was Manning/Assange that did the full on data dump without any effort to redact any sensitive info.
 
K

Kthulhu

Member
TestOfTide said:
Do plea deals ever happen in military tribunals?

So many people in this thread are focused on whether or not he would get pardoned, but I would think a plea deal has a much better chance of happening, especially if Snowden ever manages to get some useful dirt on Russia.
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I don't know.

Snowden himself has said he'd return if he was giving a fair trial.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
djplaeskool said:
As far as I don't see this happening, they've got a point that Obama might be the best shot he's going to get for many, many years.
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Obama's not Snowden's best option by a mile.

Obama defended the CIA when it spied the Senate when they were investigating the torture methods of the CIA, and then after Senate voted to make public the report, despite the administration's best attempts, he appointed the CIA themselves to review which details to declassify, so they could handpick which embarrassments to hide.

Obama has been terrible when it comes to the intelligence community. The lack of protection to whistleblowers is just evidence that Obama blindly trusts the higher-ups of these agencies. Snowden's current predicament is just a symptom of the situation.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Kthulhu said:
He wants a public trail, which will probably never happen.
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Yeah, a public trial would never happen considering the trial would involve so much confidential information.

But even if it weren't public I would hope there are other ways for the US to show they don't plan to treat him like Manning or Assange.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
Obama has been absolutely terrible on these issues. If he's Snowdon's best shot then we'll never see Snowden in the US ever again.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Fox318 said:
.

Is there an example of a spy or informant coming with with info like Snowden did and consequences he faced?
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Daniel Ellsberg is called a hero by quite a few people these days after years of getting shit on. He claims Snowden made good decisions given the circumstances.
 
S

Sulik2

Member
Obama hates public exposure. Dudes been a decent president, but his record on privacy concerns is abysmal. He will never pardon Snowdon. Snowdon is the definition of a whistleblower, but when you expose government corruption they don't tend to like you. Hilary has more of a chance of pardoning him then Obama.
 
K

Kthulhu

Member
Sulik2 said:
Obama hates public exposure. Dudes been a decent president, but his record on privacy concerns is abysmal. He will never pardon Snowdon. Snowdon is the definition of a whistleblower, but when you expose government corruption they don't tend to like you. Hilary has more of a chance of pardoning him then Obama.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but both Hillary and Trump have both stated that they wouldn't pardon him.
 
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