The WinTel empire chooses to support HD DVD
- Thread starter UbiSoftologist
- Start date
- Status
fortified_concept
Banned
Why I'm NOT surprised?
Nightbringer
Don´t hit me for my bad english plase
Since Hewlett Packard, Dell and Apple are computers sellers they will use the standard and since Apple and Dell are with Intel the most probable thing is that their computers will have an HD-DVD.
Ryudo said:
Either show me another software company that plays as dirty as MS does, or spare me your condescending bullshit. MS' shady business practices have been well documented. While other companies aren't innocent of that sort of thing either, MS does a lot more of it, and a lot more often. The fact that you see fit to defend them is sad. At least with EA, most people can bring themselves to acknowledge the company's lousy practices, even when they continue to buy EA products. But I guess MS is 'just like any other company' in the magical fairy land you live in, where liking a company's products means that you have to endorse their business practices with your heart and soul, too.
This is probably whats going to happen. Dell = Intel's Bitch.Nightbringer said:
On topic, MS supporting HD-DVD is huge. It tips the scale back to HD-DVD's favor in terms of corporate support.
This whole format war is stupid. They both shouldn't release any new format until everybody agrees on a single standard, imo. HVD for the win!
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
empanada said:This is probably whats going to happen. Dell = Intel's Bitch.
On topic, MS supporting HD-DVD is huge. It tips the scale back to HD-DVD's favor in terms of corporate support.
This whole format war is stupid. They both shouldn't release any new format until everybody agrees on a single standard, imo. HVD for the win!
Microsoft is torpedoing the process on purpose, lol
Tellaerin said:
Why would i waste my time ? You are same pathetic individual who will not recogcnise Bill gates contribution to chaity as anything more than a tax write off. So why would i hold a conversation with someone so obviously incapable of not being biased ?
Heart and soul ? right.... good one.
Ryudo said:
And you're the one that can't see past his own nose and finds nothing at all strange about Bill Gates and Microsoft making charitable contributions to markets where they're trying to gain (=purchase) goodwill. You think I'm biased and pathetic; I think you're naive to the point of stupidity. More to the point, I think that's a convenient excuse for you to back out of answering the question, because you know damn well that you can't name another company that regularly engages in the sort of business practices MS does. Either put up or shut up.
Ryudo said:
Considering your impassioned defense of all things MS anytime someone dares to criticize them, I think 'heart and soul' just about sums it up, yes.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Tellaerin said:Heh, you think they're doing it for the consumers' benefit? This is about control.
While what I said eariler about Microsoft is true. I do believe they are trying to fuck Sony over and put them in the same place as Sun and Netscape. This is like a million man firing squad, all pointed at Sony now. In business though, I can't fault them. It's been proven that HD-DVD is cheaper. That alone could be reason enough to go with HD-DVD. Or the fact that their direct competitor in gaming is the maker of the other format. It's not so cut and dry. Why would they want to put money in their pockets, that could be used against them. They already have the WMP9 codec on Blu Ray, they still win. They have 150 million dollars sunk in Apple. Let them go with Blu Ray, they still win. They win regardless. Plus, they have leveraged Windows against Sony. Game consoles are not a neccessity of life for most people, computers are though. When you start seeing the Windows Vista available on HD-DVD ads, then you know Blu Ray is fighting a war it just may not win. I don't see why you are up in arms though. Anytime a new format is introduced, it's about control, it's not just Microsoft trying to do the controlling
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Jonnyram said:
Agent Icebeezy said:
Damn, it's happened already.
Tellaerin said:
Facts please. Your little moral crusade doesnt cut it here. Where is your proof that he is doing it for non charitable reasons ? Give me some proof.
Actually i dont think you are pathetic, that was harsh of me. My whole problem is the way you try to quantisize things, relying on mud slinging articles, rumour, conjecture and the like. I know MS arent saints, i am not that jaded and i have said this in the past. Wrong has been done and they have to pay for that and they are.
IBM, Intel, 3dfx all had major monopolies btw.
Theres only so much hating for the sake of hating an individual can take.
Master Z said:
Quoted for truth. Vista is going to have this Protected Video Path thing which means that for ANY hi-def content (HD-DVD or not) you're going to have to have a video card with an HDCP capable output and a monitor with an HDCP capable input. Since there are currently no video cards that support this, and very few monitors that do, Vista is basically worthless.
Ryudo said:
I'm not sure what you're asking for when you say you want 'proof'. A letter from Bill Gates confessing that MS only donated funds and equipment to the Indian government in order to combat the spread of Linux in that country (to name one example), and that the timing of the Gates Foundation gift to India that coincided with MS' own donation was more than just a happy accident? It's hardly something you could expect someone to confess to. Yet whenever I bring up an article like this , you'll reject it out of hand as 'mud slinging', 'rumor', or 'conjecture'.
Ryudo said:
True enough, but even the worst of that lot (arguably IBM) didn't regularly engage in the the kind of scorched-earth business tactics that MS does. Like I said before, companies aren't black and white--it's all shades of grey. I just think that MS is a darker shade than most.
And to be fair, I was too harsh myself. I do think you're a little too naive for your own good sometimes, though.
Ryudo said:
I wouldn't say I hate for the sake of hating, though. In fact, there was a time not so long ago when I was pretty supportive of MS, despite their business practices. (The fact that they're responsible for a common, virtually universal PC operating system is an important enough accomplishment that I was willing to forgive some of the things they'd done to get to that point.) I think that for me, the end of the honeymoon was around the time MS started doing their damnedest to obliterate Netscape. The way development on IE pretty much stagnated after they succeeded sent out a message: 'Instead of wasting time and money to improve our products, it's cheaper to just drive our competitors out of business. So what if consumers don't reap the benefits of competition? Pft, sucks to be them.' The way they responded to the 'threat' of Linux ('OMG COMPETITION! KILL IT, KILL IT!') by propping up SCO in the SCO/Linux affair didn't help my opinion any, either.
Now MS continues to promote things like microtransactions and so-called "trusted computing", which I feel are of more benefit to corporations than consumers. They're throwing their considerable weight behind HD-DVD, which again benefits corporations (who won't have to spend the same kind of money to upgrade production facilities) rather than consumers, who will have to settle for the technically inferior format. It's unfair to write off all criticisms of MS as mindless 'hate'--of late, they've just taken it upon themselves to do too many things that benefit them at the consumers' expense for me to keep turning a blind eye.
Nightbringer
Don´t hit me for my bad english plase
If you make memory you can remember that the key for the DVD success is that it was a tech gadget for PC before the massive launch of DVD players.
Making the technology standard on the PC is the key.
Making the technology standard on the PC is the key.
Nightbringer said:
I disagree. DVD-ROM drives are still not as prevalent amongst PC owners as you'd think, despite being standard issue on new machines. There was a considerable outcry from CGW readers about a year back when an issue of the magazine shipped with a DVD filled with games - apparently, many gamers out there didn't have the hardware to read it, despite the fact that you'd expect gamers to be early adopters. How many DVD players would you say were in use at that time? Yeah.
I'd say that the PS2 did more for mass-market acceptance of the DVD format than the PC ever could, to be honest.
Nightbringer
Don´t hit me for my bad english plase
The acceptance of the DVD thanks to the PS2 is an overhyped falacy.
The DVD was decided as an standard before the launch of the PS2 and it started to be a commercial product in the PC thanks to things like the DVD Player+Mpeg2 from Creative that was launched in 1998 or 1999.
And I am talking in the era when you have to pay 600 for having a DVD-Player for your TV.
I am not talking about the DVD-ROM content, I am talking about DVD-Video.
The DVD was decided as an standard before the launch of the PS2 and it started to be a commercial product in the PC thanks to things like the DVD Player+Mpeg2 from Creative that was launched in 1998 or 1999.
And I am talking in the era when you have to pay 600 for having a DVD-Player for your TV.
I am not talking about the DVD-ROM content, I am talking about DVD-Video.
Nightbringer said:
Yet the fact remains that the PS2 did far more to popularize that format by bringing it into the living room at an affordable price point than any PC add-on could have. Even now, the PC isn't the centerpiece of most peoples' home entertainment centers, let alone back in the late 90's.
Remember kids...
It's okay to hate EA because they buy up developers and run them into the ground.
It's okay to boycott Wal-Mart because they destroy local economies and ruin suppliers.
It's okay to rage against Fox News for pushing blatant politically skewed propaganda.
But it's NOT okay to hate Microsoft just because they've spent the last two decades using monopolistic tacticts to bully PC makers and screw over smaller companies!
Just remember, when someone criticizes Microsoft, just say, "No company is better or worse than any other!" Oh, and don't forget to bring up their charitable donations, as if they weren't one of the lowest donating companies around until a prominent business magazine took them and other large companies who were donating very little to task for it.
It's okay to hate EA because they buy up developers and run them into the ground.
It's okay to boycott Wal-Mart because they destroy local economies and ruin suppliers.
It's okay to rage against Fox News for pushing blatant politically skewed propaganda.
But it's NOT okay to hate Microsoft just because they've spent the last two decades using monopolistic tacticts to bully PC makers and screw over smaller companies!
Just remember, when someone criticizes Microsoft, just say, "No company is better or worse than any other!" Oh, and don't forget to bring up their charitable donations, as if they weren't one of the lowest donating companies around until a prominent business magazine took them and other large companies who were donating very little to task for it.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
Why would MS support HD DVD NOW if they have a regular dvd in their 360? They dont give a crap their new codec is in both formats.
What a thread. The hate against MS is unbelievable. There are so many other companies in this world with far greater injustices. Enron, Worldcom... pretty much every cable and telecommunications company. Larry Ellison is probably the most ruthless CEO in the biz. How about this biggest fraudulent company of all time that steals BILLIONS of dollars from Americans. HALIBURTEN If any company deserves hate that is the one.
I understand the nature of this gaming forum... pick a side. Sony fans pick BR, MS fans pick HD-DVD. The bottom line is that either format is going to accomplish my needs... playing HD-DVD movies. I'd like to avoid the split market and this is how companies avoid this. They form alliances... the strongest alliance wins. I look at it like this... without HD-DVD, BR would still be a broke format. We would be using caddies for the disks and our HD-DVD players would not play DVD's. Competition is a wonderful thing. The fact that both formats exist makes a better product for me and you.
I understand the nature of this gaming forum... pick a side. Sony fans pick BR, MS fans pick HD-DVD. The bottom line is that either format is going to accomplish my needs... playing HD-DVD movies. I'd like to avoid the split market and this is how companies avoid this. They form alliances... the strongest alliance wins. I look at it like this... without HD-DVD, BR would still be a broke format. We would be using caddies for the disks and our HD-DVD players would not play DVD's. Competition is a wonderful thing. The fact that both formats exist makes a better product for me and you.
AB 101 said:
wow, now that's a dumb statement. I'd argue Windows is the one thing they've horribly fucked up on. For all the trash that people heap on MS, their development tools and resources are top notch, especially compared to the garbage the OS community throws out.
I'd argue this has no effect simply because Windows isn't a hardware vendor and, therefore, can't force a hardware shift. MS will support whoever wins out in the hardware battle, in the end, they don't care as long as most people are using Windows to get to the content.
All you need is a driver and java. (a) Who the hell doesn't have the JVM installed on their machine by now? Must really love those fucking popups at java-enabled sites. (b) You're gonna have to do a driver install on an HD-DVD drive anyway, unless you like using windows default drivers. Meh. Until Intel and MS become bigtime drive manufacturers, this means nothing. PEACE.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
wrong thread.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
MS cant really stop Blu Ray from taking off on the PC the software to operate a drive is firmware , and hell even intel couldnt stop via from reverse engineering their processor bus for via based intel boards.
fortified_concept
Banned
jedimike said:
You're making a big deal of Microsoft's influence on the matter. All you need is drivers. It's that simple. This decision of course shows once again Microsoft's monopolistic business tactics and the way it deals with the competition.
Someone at another forum, who's more informed on matters such as this says the actual news is that Microsoft and Intel have joined the Promotion group or something like that, which doesn't mean in anyway that they are exclusive to HD-DVD - and the article even says Intel would provide hardware for Blu-Ray use. Take it with a grain of salt, since I haven't seen any article that actually expands on the "MS and Intel join HD-DVD" of this article. "Joining HD-DVD" means a few things depending on in what capacity they've "joined".
It is absolutely no secret I hate MS. The XBox, however, is a decent piece of hardware. The 360, is an excellent piece of tech for the money. But MS business practices (of which I have seen far more than many in this forum), are borderline illegal. I've watched them hold up a $100 million purchase because they didn't like the fact that we were only using their server platform for Exchange, and using a combination of Oracle, and Linux/Unix to provide other services.
I've seen MS refuse to provide support on several other purchases because we did not go with a complete MS solution. And the funny thing is, this is all in less than a three year period. The best thing about it is that MS can get away with all of it; they have a team of lawyers that would make your head spin. Even better, I've only seen the tip of the iceberg; my friends who have been doing this a lot longer just smile and say that is MS. They'll never change.
And you are right. MS products are for the most part crap, with the small exception of Office. MS isn't the only one with less than clean tactics as I can tell you after working with Cisco, Jupiter, Nortel, and others - but they are by far the worst.
I've seen MS refuse to provide support on several other purchases because we did not go with a complete MS solution. And the funny thing is, this is all in less than a three year period. The best thing about it is that MS can get away with all of it; they have a team of lawyers that would make your head spin. Even better, I've only seen the tip of the iceberg; my friends who have been doing this a lot longer just smile and say that is MS. They'll never change.
And you are right. MS products are for the most part crap, with the small exception of Office. MS isn't the only one with less than clean tactics as I can tell you after working with Cisco, Jupiter, Nortel, and others - but they are by far the worst.
jedimike said:
The thing is, Im an Xbox homer, but I prefer the BR format. So, Im not really picking a side as such in this matter. I just get tired of all the blind hate of MS from this largely X-File generation forum population.
I agree that competition is a good thing- Im all for it. In this instance, I think we need some more cooperation though.
One standard to rule them all.
Norse
Member
"In the end, copyright controls may have been the deciding factor for Microsoft and Intel. As the two companies push out more Media Center enabled PCs, the movement of protected content around the home becomes an important factor.
Blu-ray will include advanced watermarking technology that favors standalone consumer electronics devices by requiring authorization codes built into the hardware to access content. Such security features could make it difficult for consumers bouncing video from a PC to a TV, or those streaming content between networked computers."
"Microsoft had previously remained neutral in the standards war between HD-DVD and Sony-backed Blu-ray, as the company's VC-1 Windows Media Video codec will be included with both formats."
LINK
Blu-ray will include advanced watermarking technology that favors standalone consumer electronics devices by requiring authorization codes built into the hardware to access content. Such security features could make it difficult for consumers bouncing video from a PC to a TV, or those streaming content between networked computers."
"Microsoft had previously remained neutral in the standards war between HD-DVD and Sony-backed Blu-ray, as the company's VC-1 Windows Media Video codec will be included with both formats."
LINK
Jonnyram said:
if thats even slightly true, then MS need some more DOJ loving right now.
How can they simply choose which format to support? Surely if they are selling a *platform*, that platform should support as many technologies as possible, to provide consumers with choice.
This is so f*cking stupid.
When I eventually buy a DVD player that can play movies at 720p, 1080i, etc. resolution, how am I supposed to know which movies will be compatible with my player? I mean, now I'm gonna have to be concerned with whether the movie will work on my player? That's something I just don't want to be bothered with.
When I eventually buy a DVD player that can play movies at 720p, 1080i, etc. resolution, how am I supposed to know which movies will be compatible with my player? I mean, now I'm gonna have to be concerned with whether the movie will work on my player? That's something I just don't want to be bothered with.
Nerevar said:
Let me fix that.
Windows and Office have been their big cash cows. They have not made alot of money on other ventures.
XBox comes to mind.
Whats funny is that the XBox is the one product I will back and will be with the 360 also.
I endure Windows for gaming purposes only but do all my other computing on Mac OS X.
- Status