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[guise]

There is no such thing as a wasted vote.

Vote for who's policies are the most aligned with yours. If none appeal, spoil the ballot paper, it'll still be counted. If you whinge about the state of things, but not use your right to vote then you're to blame.

What happens when ballots are spoiled? I've seen others suggesting this... but I can't see any positive benefit of this over voting for the "least bad" candidate

 

[Maledict]

So. I have complex feelings about Kate Hoey. Personally, I can't stand most of her stances and find her views thoroughly objectionable. However, she also represents a severely under-represented Labour demographic - she has consistently voted in-line with Labour's working class base, far more so than the rest of the party, on issues like the smoking ban or leaving the EU that working-class Labour voters overwhelmingly backed. Removing her from the party or wishing her ousting really would be the final symbol that Labour is no longer a working-class party and is instead a metropolitan party.

My personal stance would be to vote for her to ensure that the working classes do actually have their own representation and not just the liberal elite deciding what's best for them... and then do your best to change people's stances on an individual level.

She was the most homophobic labour map according to stonewall, and is the sitting map for vauxhall. Largest Lgbt concentration of residents in London.

She was chair of the countryside alliance whilst being the sitting map for inner city london.

She was wrong on the smoking ban, and wrong on Brexit. Why should I be voting for her given she is so wildly out of sync with her own constituents? Surely she should be standing in a seat where she represents those residents views?

 

[Protome]

Hey im British myself and am fully aware of the use of the term but here, on NeoGAF people are usually are banned for it. There are acitive threads going on at the moment talking about the nature/behaviour of people on the forum where a mod has discussed being nice to each other/not throwing stones but then a mod comes in here with a 'fuck off' shit post?! I'm sorry but that's double standards and a poor reflection of the current state of this place.

Is it a shitpost? Saying fuck off in response to a post that stupid shouldn't really be considered shitposting.

 

[Vivalaraza]

Why fucking vote though?

There's no opposition, no hope, and no point.

The reason you should vote, even if you live in a 'safe' seat and even though the result of this election is likely a foregone conclusion is this:

If you don't vote, you don't register on the radar. If you vote, it's a small blip. But still a blip. Enough of those blips together will mean the system starts paying attention to you.

I don't know what your age is but this is especially important if you are on the younger end of the spectrum. You have to make yourself matter, so that policies and messaging can be designed to suit you. You have to show that your vote is there to be won.

 

[Breakage]

Hey im British myself and am fully aware of the use of the term but here, on NeoGAF people are usually are banned for it. There are acitive threads going on at the moment talking about the nature/behaviour of people on the forum where a mod has discussed being nice to each other/not throwing stones but then a mod comes in here with a 'fuck off' shit post?! I'm sorry but that's double standards and a poor reflection of the current state of this place.

Yeah...I was surprised by that. I instantly thought if a normal member posted that they would have copped a ban.

 

[EmiPrime]

Here's my conundrum for you. I'm currently in a labour constituency, but my MP is Kate Hoey. Who the fuck do I vote for!

Ooof. Any chance of the local party selecting someone else?

 

[Maledict]

What happens when ballots are spoiled? I've seen others suggesting this... but I can't see any positive benefit of this over voting for the "least bad" candidate

It means nothing at all, and is (frankly) very bad advice. The number of spoiled ballots are counted, but it means *nothing*. No party looks at those numbers and thinks 'we need to change stance to get those missed votes' - partly because they don't know WHY the ballots were spoiled.

If you want to change a party's direction, or get better representation, you have to vote for a party. Parties don't chase after non-voters that much, they chase people who vote.

 

[nature boy]

So she will win by a landslide?

IMO she can only go down, but she'll win.

 

[VegiHam]

And that's part of why there won't be, because of attitudes like this.

Don't be pathetic, vote against who you don't want to win

Because if you try, there's at least some small chance, and a foundation to build on for the future.

Don't vote, and there's not even that.

See your vote as your first step towards being the opposition.

Vote pragmatically against this power grab, and hope that party gets enough power to be an opposition.

Don't think about hope in this context - there's no more hope, there are only pragmatic decisions and not giving up.

That's what they're relying on. Apathy just ensures the continuation of the status quo.

As unlikely as it was that they'd even see significant gains, the mere existence of the possibility that someone would vote UKIP set this whole darn Brexit thing going.

Even if whoever you voted for doesn't win in the end, there's importance in showing that there are people who are willing to vote in another direction, even if that is ultimately just potentially galvanising a movement for the next election. Sitting there thinking there's not point in doing something that takes very little time changes nothing.

The reason you should vote, even if you live in a 'safe' seat and even though the result of this election is likely a foregone conclusion is this:

If you don't vote, you don't register on the radar. If you vote, it's a small blip. But still a blip. Enough of those blips together will mean the system starts paying attention to you.

I don't know what your age is but this is especially important if you are on the younger end of the spectrum. You have to make yourself matter, so that policies and messaging can be designed to suit you. You have to show that your vote is there to be won.

Okay. You guys are right, I'll vote. But only cus Labour won my area by like, 100 votes last time so they're almost guaranteed to lose it this time though.

And then after I vote I'll jump of a bridge or something.

 

[jelly]

So she will win by a landslide?

The problem is people will be split between Labour and Lib Dems if they aren't voting Tory so it's a divide and conquer strategy. Tories might get less votes but the other votes being split will make them meaningless so Tories will likely get more power. The only way to defeat the Tories now is get behind one flag but that will never happen. Second best option is vote for the best Labour/Lib Dem candidate in each region that has the best chance of beating a Tory in that seat. In summary, UK is fucked.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

She was the most homophobic labour map according to stonewall, and is the sitting map for vauxhall. Largest Lgbt concentration of residents in London.

She was chair of the countryside alliance whilst being the sitting map for inner city london.

She was wrong on the smoking ban, and wrong on Brexit. Why should I be voting for her given she is so wildly out of sync with her own constituents? Surely she should be standing in a seat where she represents those residents views?

I agree, but counterpoint: look how many urbane metropolitans got parachuted into northern seats. By the same logic (Labour MPs ought to reflect the type of Labour demographic specific to their seat rather than representing the Labour Party at large), you're arguing for a mass deselection process all across the Labour Party.

In the long-run, I think this might actually be healthy for the party. But it's a big, controversial step and I'm aware a lot will disagree with me.

 

[Jezbollah]

Okay. You guys are right, I'll vote. But only cus Labour won my area by like, 100 votes last time so they're almost guaranteed to lose it this time though.

And then after I vote I'll jump of a bridge or something.

You living in a slim majority is a massive reason WHY you should vote for whoever.

 

[TimmmV]

Here's my conundrum for you. I'm currently in a labour constituency, but my MP is Kate Hoey. Who the fuck do I vote for!

Mine is Graham Stringer, so I feel your pain

(Well, would if I wasn't a German citizen, and therefore unable to vote in a GE)

 

[iapetus]

Hey im British myself and am fully aware of the use of the term but here, on NeoGAF people are usually are banned for it. There are acitive threads going on at the moment talking about the nature/behaviour of people on the forum where a mod has discussed being nice to each other/not throwing stones but then a mod comes in here with a 'fuck off' shit post?! I'm sorry but that's double standards and a poor reflection of the current state of this place.

Then my apologies for any offence caused. Obviously I meant it in the way you'd expect it to be interpreted in a UK environment, and expected it to be taken as such in a UK thread about UK issues.

I stand 100% behind the position it was meant to express, though. At any time, not voting for the reasons expressed is a foolish and dangerous thing to do. In the current political climate that is very obviously doubly true, and it's due at least in part to people who took that approach recently that we're in the mess we are right now. I have no tolerance for the idea that it's a sane position to hold right now.

 

[Abraxas]

Just going to point out its those supposed champagne socialists without ideology who are still fighting against Brexit more than anyone else on the left or right. It's the supposedly morally firm left wingers like Corbyn who are tacitly supporting Brexit and doing fuck all to stop it happening.

You are absolutely right, but I doubt I will ever forgive the LDs for the tuition change. They are the reason my sister had to go into medicine through the military, and I think the rage caused by the betrayal of joining the tories took a decade off my dad's life.

 

[Protome]

What happens when ballots are spoiled? I've seen others suggesting this... but I can't see any positive benefit of this over voting for the "least bad" candidate

Nothing. It's counted but nobody cares about it and if you put any effort into writing something on it the only people who see it are the vote counters, who don't care.

 

[iapetus]

Mine is Graham Stringer, so I feel your pain

Mine is Michael Gove. My pain outweighs all of you.

 

[Ruff]

What is the key reason for people here hating Corbyn?

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Why fucking vote though?

There's no opposition, no hope, and no point.

People with your outstanding iron-clad will are arguably why we had Brexit in the first place

 

[Jezbollah]

What is the key reason for people here hating Corbyn?

Look at the polls. And the last few years of division in the Labour party.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Mine is Michael Gove. My pain outweighs all of you.

My condolences.

 

[Yamauchi]

Great news!

 

[Jill Sandwich]

What happens when ballots are spoiled? I've seen others suggesting this... but I can't see any positive benefit of this over voting for the "least bad" candidate

Spoilt votes are counted in election results. A large number of protest votes can affect party politics, depending if that number is significant. If you don't vote at all, then you don't have a voice.

 

[Protome]

Really the worst part about all of this is my local Lib Dem MP is going to put leaflets through my door twice a day every day up until the election again.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Mine is Michael Gove. My pain outweighs all of you.

My mother is a headteacher so... you have my deepest sympathies.

 

[D4Danger]

For all the good it'll do I'll still vote Labour even though Corbyn has failed as a leader and is probably going to get destroyed.

 

[Audioboxer]

She might be thinking anti-independence thoughts up here will pick up Conservative some Scottish seats. Unlike Labour/Corbyn, the SNP tend to play fast and hard and rally together as a unified party to oppose The Tories in the North. At times like this it will often cause even non-independence supporters to still chuck The SNP a symbolic vote due to the state Labour are in.

 

[VegiHam]

People with your outstanding iron-clad will are arguably why we had Brexit in the first place

I voted against it mate, didn't fucking help did it?

 

[Maledict]

A large number of protest votes can affect party politics, depending if that number is significant. If you don't vote at all, then you don't have a voice.

Seriously, I've been in the room when election strategies are discussed. No-one, *no-one* cares about spoiled ballots. Please don't waste your vote doing this. Vote for a party - that's how you shift the numbers and ideology. Parties will chase people who vote for something.

They honestly don't care one bit about spoiled ballots. Never have, never will.

 

[liquidtmd]

And you think many of those remainers will vote for Lib Dems who teamed up with the tories only recently to heap pain on the people? Lol

I'm not suggesting at all that 16 million Remainers will translate into Lib Dem votes.

I'm more implying that Labour have no message to give and Lib Dem are vocally the most opposed to the course we are currently steamrolling toward. They are mostly ineffective Jackasses it's true, but as a message it's a strong, simple one.

 

[jelly]

You are absolutely right, but I doubt I will ever forgive the LDs for the tuition change. They are the reason my sister had to go into medicine through the military, and I think the rage caused by the betrayal of joining the tories took a decade off my dad's life.

I understand being annoyed but throwing the Lib Dems under the bus for that was a rash decision. They did a lot of good keeping the Tories in a check and couldn't win them all. We would be a darn sight better off with Lib Dems still having a power share.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

What is the key reason for people here hating Corbyn?

Cus he's incompetent at making Labour seem like an actual threat, and that reflects in the pools. Say what you want about the media being against him, he's supposed to get everybody on side, no matter how hard a job thats meant to be.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

Seriously, I've been in the room when election strategies are discussed. No-one, *no-one* cares about spoiled ballots. Please don't waste your vote doing this. Vote for a party - that's how you shift the numbers and ideology. Parties will chase people who vote for something.

They honestly don't care one bit about spoiled ballots. Never have, never will.

Well yes, voting for your fave is the better option.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

She might be thinking anti-independence thoughts up here will pick up Conservative some Scottish seats. Unlike Labour/Corbyn, the SNP tend to play fast and hard and rally together as a unified party to oppose The Tories in the North. At times like this it will often cause even non-independence supporters to still chuck The SNP a symbolic vote due to the state Labour are in.

Will be interesting to see if the SNP can pop those last bits of red and blue off the map. Orange might be a shade too close for yellow to convince people to shift.

 

[Flintty]

Then my apologies for any offence caused. Obviously I meant it in the way you'd expect it to be interpreted in a UK environment, and expected it to be taken as such in a UK thread about UK issues.

I stand 100% behind the position it was meant to express, though. At any time, not voting for the reasons expressed is a foolish and dangerous thing to do. In the current political climate that is very obviously doubly true, and it's due at least in part to people who took that approach recently that we're in the mess we are right now. I have no tolerance for the idea that it's a sane position to hold right now.

It's cool, like I said, 100% agree with your thoughts, regardless of what way people vote. Everyone should use their vote and not be complacent.

I wasn't offended, but thanks for the apology. It was more of an observation and expression of frustration of how I feel visiting GAF at the moment (I know, not the time or place so apologies for going off topic).

 

[BossDarkseid]

She might be thinking anti-independence thoughts up here will pick up Conservative some Scottish seats. Unlike Labour/Corbyn, the SNP tend to play fast and hard and rally together as a unified party to oppose The Tories in the North. At times like this it will often cause even non-independence supporters to still chuck The SNP a symbolic vote due to the state Labour are in.

Hey if SNP want to have someone stand dowm here in Epsom & Ewell, I'd probably vote for them. Better than being Chris Grayling's safety net for a decade (although tbf he did fight to keep Epsom Hospital open so he's not a total c u next tuesday). Atm probably go for Lib Dems, Labour have lagged behind them for years here, afaik.

 

[Maledict]

I agree, but counterpoint: look how many urbane metropolitans got parachuted into northern seats. By the same logic (Labour MPs ought to reflect the type of Labour demographic specific to their seat rather than representing the Labour Party at large), you're arguing for a mass deselection process all across the Labour Party.

In the long-run, I think this might actually be healthy for the party. But it's a big, controversial step and I'm aware a lot will disagree with me.

I ultimately don't think the party survives in the long run anyways. With Brexit happening I don't think we can each the point of building the obama coalition in the UK. The party is too reliant on the white working class vote, and that can't be made up by the coalition of the ascendant in the same way. I think we will have to suffer a lost decade, until we get another centrist leader and the party decides to put practicality in front of purity and actually *doing something*.

(Note : to forestall your point, I know white working class was part of obamas coalition, but it was a smaller part than it is in the Labour Party in the uk. The balance isn't the same).

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I'll swallow the seething rage I feel for Corby and vote Labour. It won't do any good, but anything that shakes the Tories even a little bit is a victory in its own right.

 

[witchedwiz]

This is about Theresa May trying to legitimise her PM position by being publicly elected into office instead of inheriting the role.

This..
From my little understanding of uk political situation, it's very likely she'll get re-elected with a wider margin, ad opposition has failed to capitalize properly on the brexit consequences...

 

[Hazzuh]

They'll blame the EU.

Nah. They fucked the economy for years and blamed it on "the mess inherited from the last Government" for as long as they could. People ate that shit up.

When Brexit fucks all of us, The Sun and the Daily Mail will do their part and help blame it on "vindictive, meddling Eurocrats and leeching foreigners trying to stifle Britain's greatness." People will eat that shit up too.

The Tories will get away clean.

Will it matter? The Tories have secured the reigns of the UK during the two most significant periods in recent British history. The damage is already done. You absolutely can say goodbye to the UK resembling a European Social Democracy from now on, we're about to take a huge lurch towards a more American social system.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I don't think you can defy gravity indefinitely in politics, there is always a comeuppance for populism eventually. If Brexit really is a disaster then I expect the government really will face a backlash. Most Leave voters wouldn't have voted Leave if it costed them anything significant. If their readers find themselves out of a job, I don't think the tabloids will stick with the government very long (why would they? they love to present themselves as insurgents).

I might be fooling myself but I still feel like in the long run Brexit could do major damage to the Tories.

What is the key reason for people here hating Corbyn?

Personally:

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Ashcroft's released some polling the other week that showed most people don't know who Farron is, those who did don't like him and they don't even know the LDs stance on the EU.

The lib Dems are fucked. Labour are even more fucked. Their lunch is being eaten from both sides. Corbyn has somehow turned the Tories great Achilles Heel into Labours biggest weakness, united the right behind the Tories and they have leadership with its head in the sand. The only question is over/under 100 majority.

The future is blue!

I might actually stick some money on this (over)

 

[twobear]

I ultimately don't think the party survives in the long run anyways. With Brexit happening I don't think we can each the point of building the obama coalition in the UK. The party is too reliant on the white working class vote, and that can't be made up by the coalition of the ascendant in the same way. I think we will have to suffer a lost decade, until we get another centrist leader and the party decides to put practicality in front of purity and actually *doing something*.

(Note : to forestall your point, I know white working class was part of obamas coalition, but it was a smaller part than it is in the Labour Party in the uk. The balance isn't the same).

Unfortunately a centrist in post-Tory-Brexit-landslide Britain is 'well I think corporations should pay SOME tax...'.

 

[toythatkills]

Spoilt votes are counted in election results. A large number of protest votes can affect party politics, depending if that number is significant. If you don't vote at all, then you don't have a voice.

Is there an example throughout recorded history of this actually happening?

 

[Audioboxer]

Will be interesting to see if the SNP can pop those last bits of red and blue off the map. Orange might be a shade too close for yellow to convince people to shift.

Edinburgh South might fall, but I think the Lib Dems and Tories will keep their seats. If I'm honest I suspect there could be a slip up in some seats for the SNP. It'll be just the cherry on the cake May wants if she actually manages to take 1 seat to 2/3/4. I can see the newspaper headlines now "Conservatives back in Scotland, over 100% increase! Indyref2 has no chance".

Just shows you how desperate it is up here. Lib Dems, Labour and Conservative all have an equal share of the vote... Labour though, lost 40 seats in 2015. Crazy.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

What we need is a good ol' scandal to spice things up. Anyone got any footage of Teresa at a pig farm?

 

[Ravensmash]

It's going to be a bloody landslide...

Unless Labour sort their shit out sharpish.
Can also see some Lib Dem gains though.

 

[Protome]

The worst part is this is win-win for the Tories.

They actually win, they get to run the UK into the ground themselves. They don't win, Labour has to do it and then they can run the next election based on "Hey look at the bad shit Labour did, we probably wouldn't have even done a Brexit or something."

 

[Jonnax]

Well for my seat the Tories have held it since 2005 with something like 60% of the vote.

Second place is Lib Dem so I'll give them a vote, but yeah. Not much is gonna change.

 

[Principate]

I'll swallow the seething rage I feel for Corby and vote Labour. It won't do any good, but anything that shakes the Tories even a little bit is a victory in its own right.

I'm not voting for May but I'm not convinced of a Corbyn vote. none of his actions make sense. Even the Lords amendment didn't manage to gather his support and it's not something that would have hurt him in any substantial way politically.

The dude from all accounts seems to be a full blown leaver.

 

[Bananajama]

Ugh - worst thing about this Snap Election is we're going to see more of Nicola aren't we?