Good. Empty chair her.
Theresa May Statement: June 8th General Election requested
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Good. Empty chair her.
PJV3
Member
The best hope is portraying the Tories as arrogant and taking power for granted, May not attending is helpful at least.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Nick Clegg will now outlast both Cameron and Osbourne in the Commons (as he is likely to decisively hold Sheffield Hallam).
Politics, man.
We've had opposition debates before. This will be good for Sturgeon and Farron.
Politics, man.
We've had opposition debates before. This will be good for Sturgeon and Farron.
w1ck3dn1nj4
Member
This snap election is all about Brexit and the disaster around the corner that's going to be with us for years to come. Anything else is just noise to me. As someone who's still angry about how Brexit was decided on such a farcical exercise of duping voters into believing outrageous lies, there's only one sane and logical choice.
A vote for labour is just as much a vote for hard Brexit, as a vote for the conservatives. I don't care what anyone else says, for the first time ever I'll be voting Lib Dems. Might not amount to anything in the end, but I don't give a shit. This is the last chance really for the 16m on the remain camp and those on the other side who's felt remorse about the reality of leaving the single market. If the country still wants a hard Brexit after this, it deserves everything it gets.
A vote for labour is just as much a vote for hard Brexit, as a vote for the conservatives. I don't care what anyone else says, for the first time ever I'll be voting Lib Dems. Might not amount to anything in the end, but I don't give a shit. This is the last chance really for the 16m on the remain camp and those on the other side who's felt remorse about the reality of leaving the single market. If the country still wants a hard Brexit after this, it deserves everything it gets.
Charles Brandon
Member
Farron is hardly mister charisma though is he? Sturgeon will clean up but it doesn't matter because she's already going to hold all her seats. People will grumble about May and accuse her of running scared but it doesn't matter because she will walk the election no matter what.
The real fight will be between Corbyn and Farron.
Are the Greens going to send both leaders or will it depend on which one of them is 'on' on the day of the debate?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
They don't need to change the law. The FTPA says you get a GE if there's a vote of no confidence, which only needs a simple majority, which the Tories have. So, like two weeks or something? I dunno. The point is it wouldn't be a major obstacle, so Labour would come off looking like jellyfish for no gain at all.
Edit: Ninja'd
She wouldn't even have to do that. She could simply resign as Prime Minister while remaining leader of the Conservative party, refuse to allow any other government to form, and then after two weeks an election gets called automatically. No VoNC needed.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
If you don't mind me asking, which constituency do you live in?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Even easier! Labour voting against would have been absolutely pointless.
itsbenoclock
Member
Both places I can vote are strong conservative seats, no chance they'll change really. Have been for years.
I'm trying to imagine what 'a lot worse' would mean in the context of that polling showing a 140 seat swing from Labour to Conservative.
If that's the way you see it fair enough. Short of a parallel dimension machine neither of us can prove one outcome will be better or worse than the other. I just can't see that quietly agreeing to the Conservative proposal is going to help Labour at all, and by at least forcing the issue Labour could put the Tories on the back foot a bit.
EDIT: Sorry, that's a 140 seat swing. Roughly 70 seats going from one to the other. I imagine we'll get a whole pile of more accurate polling (?) over the next few weeks.
hydrophilic attack
Member
It's so weird to me that Labour under Corbyn was so lukewarm in support of Remain during the referendum. Freedom of movement and socialism are not inherently contradictory in my opinion. Push for strong unions and widespread collective bargaining to counter any negative effects large-scale labour immigration could have on the labour market and reap all the benefits of being in the common market as well. Basically the line championed by the Swedish Social Democrats
Kotetsu534
Member
Up here the Nats have had a great time tearing Labour to shreds since the referendum, but quietly the opposition in Scotland has been moving away from Labour to the Tories. In last year's Scottish elections, Labour and the Tories drew the constituency vote evenly at 22% each, but the Tories had a 4-point lead, 23% to 19%, in the list vote, and ended up beating them by 7 seats. In a way, that's even more remarkable than the extreme dominance of the SNP, given the visceral hatred of the Tories in Scotland through the 90s and 00s. In the 2015 GE, when the SNP took 50% of the vote, Labour was still 10 points clear of the Tories. If the SNP vote drops off a tad - which is expected - keep an eye on where it goes. The Tories becoming the #2 party in Scotland, while in power? It's not completely impossible.
Bony Manifesto
Member
A united, competent opposition certainly could have made some political capital out of it, but Labour can't really be described as either right now. There's no guarantee Corbyn would have been able to whip enough of his party to guarantee the bill would not pass. And even if he did, he would need a strong, consistent message about why he chose to vote against it, and would have to fend off accusations of cowardice from all sides (not least from within his own party).
PJV3
Member
Just out of interest, has a PM resigned without a successors name being given to the Queen? I know we have had a PM snuff it before, and Brown went in a strange limbo but with an obvious successor waiting.
The PM going for just a few weeks must be unusual. (you're probably going to name loads)
Trickster
Member
I'm confused. Is this debate some unofficial debate that ITV are holding on their own, and inviting the party leaders for?
I mean surely there are debates that she will show up for, right? She didn't start a general election and then just go "fuck yall, I don't want to debate my opposition". She didn't actually do that, right?..
She did do that.
That's exactly what she did. She's hoping the media will continue to do the work for her and all she has to do is sit back and not say anything too stupid.
Even today the BBC have asked every Labour MP about why Corbyn is so unelectable. Things are going great.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Not since 1894, but we wouldn't be British if we didn't preserve weird constitutional precedents for the unlikeliest occasions!
Yes she did. There is absolutely nothing that requires her to debate. 2010 was the first time we actually had the debates, and that's because Brown was looking for something to avoid the inevitable.
The people in power very rarely want a debate. It brings the PM down to the level of the other leaders, and it gives the opportunity for something to go wrong.
Huw_Dawson
Member
The real opposition:
¯\_(ツ_/¯
His answer was that it's not on the table - the PM called an election because she expects a massive Tory majority. He also said that this will be something that will become clear in the coming weeks. The SNP member kept shouting at him to answer yes or no before being eventually chided by the Speaker.
He's not pre-empting our manifesto announcements, is what he means.
Someone directly asked him if he thinks being gay is a sin though, and he did indeed say it is not a sin and he's proud to have voted through equal marriage, but there is much more to be done on LGBT rights.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Time to crush some saboteurs!
Trickster
Member
That is fucking insane man. How can the majority of british people intend to vote for someone like that?
Maybe it's because I never really paid much attention to politics outside that of my own country and the US. But it's been shocking for me to learn what the state of british politics are.
Edit - Okay, I guess it doesn't seem quite a crazy if there hasn't really been a history of the current leader to participating in debates. It still seems like something that a leader really should do though. I would never vote for someone who would refuse to participate in a debate with the other candidates, seems so incredibly cowardly.
Fundamentally, what ought to force Prime Ministers into debating is the fallout with the public if they don't. It's quite alarming that people are completely content with a Prime Minister who isn't brave enough to stand up in a debate against Jeremy Corbyn, of all people.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Part of the reason is that British press is shit
The election is irrelevant tbh, our country is run by Rupert Murdoch anyway.
They can say that the Fixed Term Parliaments Act is a Tory policy, and that the Tories are simply trying to make party political gains at the expense of the country. They don't even have to vote against a GE, they can abstain and argue it is up to the Tories to generate parliamentary support for one.
I'm not saying it would be a political masterstroke that would win the GE for Labour, but I think the ensuing mess the Tories would have to go through would at least provide some damage limitation from the current predictions.
That said, I've mostly been talking about Labour as they are today under Corbyn. For Labour's longer term prospects getting rid of Corbyn now will probably work out better for them in 5 years time. I guess that's a valid strategy for a lot of Labour MPs, but not one for Corbyn himself to be following, surely?
Charles Brandon
Member
Because
a) most people probably support brexit
b) the alterntives are a communist and a no-hoper
TV debates are not required be it by law or by tradition, 2010 and 2015 were the only times they were done.
Regardless, she'll show up because otherwise she'll be seen as a cowers especially after being called out like that in the house of commons.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Too late, I've decided to put up a snap OT. I've had to cut the section on the Labour Party short, though.
An interesting interview with May
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ls-mrs-merton-combative-theresa-may-interview
Such detail on that last question.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ls-mrs-merton-combative-theresa-may-interview
Such detail on that last question.
Charles Brandon
Member
But the middle-class students know better about what working class people need
Actually the Mail is a bigger influencer here and he doesn't own the mail. It's run by even more evil people than Murdoch.
hydrophilic attack
Member
i love dennis skinner
PJV3
Member
I almost voted to leave, but I can't see what they think the Tories are going to do for them.
Charles Brandon
Member
Long term economic plan and less foriegners
Huw_Dawson
Member
Both suspended SNP MPs voted against a GE. Can't think why.
PJV3
Member
They seem to be backing down on that last point, as long as London lets in the hoardes it's OK.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's mostly just less foreigners. There's no way people in less impoverished areas think that even 10 years down the line Tories are suddenly going to put funding in their areas. If they do they're fools and haven't been paying attention.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I mean a lot of them voted for brexit
Charles Brandon
Member
The story that Labour fucked the economy and the Tories are putting it back on an even keel is widely believed and a big part of the reason people didn't vote for Ed
hydrophilic attack
Member
thanks press
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