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[IdreamofHIME]

OP is wrong, is June 8.

 

[pswii60]

Quick note: Anyone who tells you Brexit can be undone is lying to you, Article 50 has been triggered, the UK will leave the EU. If we wanted back in we'd have to renegotiate that entry which would mean an even worse deal than we already have (no pound, no rebate, no immigration limitations). I think the Lib Dems will get ripped to shreds if they try and claim they can somehow keep us in the EU.

It's already been confirmed that article 50 can be revoked within the 2 years. Not that it would happen.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The stuff that Corbyn's pitched to the membership is much further than Miliband ever dared go to, and I think we can agree that the media treatment of both men has been unbelievable - bacon sandwiches and poppies, for fuck's sake.

But it has shown that Miliband, for all his faults, could at least whip a vote without pissing off his entire party (and I'd argue he was more hamstrung by Balls than any fault of his own).

This is the really surprising thing, though, and not at all obvious to people who don't follow internal Labour politics quite closely: Corbyn's policy pitch is not further to the left than Miliband's. It simply isn't, in any way, shape, or form. It's the same pitch!

As a test: try naming a part of Corbyn's policy pitch that Ed Miliband didn't pitch.

Most people pick renationalising the railways. That was actually an Ed Miliband policy, only he called it letting rail contracts expire and being picked up by public companies. Corbyn's proposing exactly the same mechanism; they just presented it differently.

Or Corbyn's minimum wage increase - it's the same policy as Ed Miliband's, but adjusted for the new economic projections. They're both based on OBR outlooks.

Or Corbyn's reintroducing private school VAT to fund free school meals. Not only was that in the Labour 2015 manifesto, it was also in the Labour 2010 manifesto under Gordon Brown!

If anything, Corbyn's biggest problem is that the policies he's running on just aren't far-left policies. They're pretty ordinary soft-left Labour policies that someone like Keir Starmer or Lisa Nancy would also run on. But Corbyn makes them seem more extreme than they are!

 

[Charles Brandon]

oh we're so fucked

Evil May Kodos vs Incompetent Corbyn Kang

both pro-brexit

But the lib-dems....! Sure, throw your vote away.

I got booted from The Labour Party last week for replying to a Corbyn email with the word "resign". I was outraged but now I'm glad, no way am I campaigning for him.

 

[kharma45]

Quick note: Anyone who tells you Brexit can be undone is lying to you, Article 50 has been triggered, the UK will leave the EU. If we wanted back in we'd have to renegotiate that entry which would mean an even worse deal than we already have (no pound, no rebate, no immigration limitations). I think the Lib Dems will get ripped to shreds if they try and claim they can somehow keep us in the EU.

Seems you can http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-does-article-50-work-2016-7

 

[Tacitus_]

That's not clear yet. If the Lib Dems win they'd almost certainly make their first order of business to contact the EU and attempt to immediately withdraw Article 50. There is nothing to outright say this cannot be done and I suspect that the EU would go along with it because it'd be by far the easiest option for them as well.

Keyword being "attempt". The EU needs an unanimous decision to accept their withdrawal of Article 50. Good luck with that.

 

[Morat]

None of that changes his incompetence. Make him a policy wonk if you think he's good at that. He has no clue how to lead:



Hatchet job, my ass.

Too be fair, there absolutely was a hatchet job in the press against him. The Eye however has been fair to the man - points out actual failings as opposed to right wing press nonsense

 

[TheMagician]

Labour have as much chance of winning this as Nintendo had of winning the console war with the Wii U.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

oh we're so fucked

Evil May Kodos vs Incompetent Corbyn Kang

both pro-brexit

But the lib-dems....! Sure, throw your vote away.

I got booted from The Labour Party last week for replying to a Corbyn email with the word "resign". I was outraged but now I'm glad, no way am I campaigning for him.

Weird, I'm voting SNP.

 

[Jezbollah]

Why is this happening now?

This is why:

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

Fair enough on May's part. If her leadership and hard Brexit is what the British people are willing to vote for twice, that's what they'll get.

LibDem is the only possible choice against Brexit, the real wasted vote is for Labour, a party that stands for nothing and no one.

 

[Meadows]

I honestly think LD are going to finish 2nd.

 

[Salty Rice]

Its a shame how this island goes down the shitter.

 

[NekoFever]

This doesn't bode well for how they think Brexit negotiations will go. They have everything they need, including an easy win in 2020, unless they think this is going to be awful and want to cash it in now.

 

[iapetus]

Quick note: Anyone who tells you Brexit can be undone is lying to you, Article 50 has been triggered, the UK will leave the EU. If we wanted back in we'd have to renegotiate that entry which would mean an even worse deal than we already have (no pound, no rebate, no immigration limitations). I think the Lib Dems will get ripped to shreds if they try and claim they can somehow keep us in the EU.

Highly debatable - if the EU wants to keep the UK (and they do) then it could easily be agreed that Article 50 can be cancelled. There's some thought that the UK could unilaterally cancel the process that it starts without the consent of the other member states, though you obviously wouldn't want to be trying that.

Either way, the Lib Dems are already launching into a far more sensible position - they're standing as the anti-Hard-Brexit party. In favour of keeping lots of the good things from the EU that we were promised we could keep in the first place.

 

[sammex]

I'll be voting for whoever has best chance of defeating the Tory candidate in my constituency.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

oh we're so fucked

Evil May Kodos vs Incompetent Corbyn Kang

both pro-brexit

But the lib-dems....! Sure, throw your vote away.

I got booted from The Labour Party last week for replying to a Corbyn email with the word "resign". I was outraged but now I'm glad, no way am I campaigning for him.

Eventually the arm-chair revolutionaries under Corbyn's banner will go back to doing whatever ineffectual activity they were engaged in before they decided they were going to toss their toys around, but that won't save the nation from Jam Man's idiocy.

 

[ferrasvansen]

I honestly think LD are going to finish 2nd.

Wouldn't surprise me, if the remainders decide enough is enough the LDs could win massive increase in seats and vote share.

 

[toythatkills]

Why is this happening now?

This is why:

May must expect to be able to win nothing in 2020 just after the Brexit deal goes through.

 

[Lagamorph]

Keyword being "attempt". The EU needs an unanimous decision to accept their withdrawal of Article 50. Good luck with that.

Again, there's no indication of that. There's nothing in Article 50 that says any decision to withdraw is with the EU or with the UK. There's certainly nothing to say it needs unanimous consent from every EU member. It could just as easily be argued it simply needs a rumber stamp from a simple EU Parliament majority and job done. You could even argue the EU president just needs to say "Yeah, ok then" and that's it.

 

[oti]

It's also great how May says she wants to save workers from the opposition's anti-Brexit stance. The same person who wants to leave the single market. The same person who said no deal is better than a bad deal.

 

[JonathanEx]

May must expect to be able to win nothing in 2020 just after the Brexit deal goes through.

Maybe they realised that seeing as the two year period isn't going to be the end of negotiations, needing until 2022 to get stuff wrapped up more is logical

 

[PJV3]

All I can hope for is the stars aligning and May ending up in not much of a better position. Shit can happen but not enough to turn this shit show around.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Weird, I'm voting SNP.

Bully for you

 

[RocknRola]

Why is this happening now?

This is why:

So in short she/they just want for further reinforce their position and push away any other possibility of elections to a somewhat distant future (short of any massive screw ups, of course).

Such is the game of politics, I gues.

 

[Mr. Sam]

I honestly think LD are going to finish 2nd.

I know the turbulence of an election campaign can change things profoundly but, looking at those current numbers and considering the electoral system, I just can't see it.

 

[Pie and Beans]

How? He still has the support of the membership. The only way Corbyn is going is if he chooses to step down, which he won't do when the rest of the party is blocking him from having a successor candidate. I don't think Corbyn will resign after his loss.

Then Labour ends and whatevers next begins while Momentum shack up in communes and rant about MSM and drink each others piss to survive.

 

[iapetus]

I'll be voting for whoever has best chance of defeating the Tory candidate in my constituency.

I wish I had that option.

 

[Dehnus]

Seems you can http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-does-article-50-work-2016-7

At any given moment you can cancel Art. 50. It is right there in the process. This is very logical. For instance let's say Putin goes full on crazy, and decides to attack the EU (not going to happen but for the sake of argument, let's say he does). It is then unwise to continue this negotiation and better to cancel it or halt it.

It would be foolish to then continue when you have more pressing matters to attend to. But it is up to the UK to cancel it in such cases. It would be suicide to cancel it though, you'd have riots with the Tabloid Reading masses.

 

[Moobabe]

I'll be voting for whoever has best chance of defeating the Tory candidate in my constituency.

This has to be the best way to vote.

 

[jem0208]

Hope not. Some will have forgiven Clegg for fucking over students and reneging on his pledges. I haven't and I hope many others haven't too. Farron is another Clegg.

What would you rather then?

Labour with a useless dolt in Corbyn?

The fucking conservatives? May? Really?

All of the parties have major issues. This is a choice of lesser evils.

 

[tomtom94]

This is the really surprising thing, though, and not at all obvious to people who don't follow internal Labour politics quite closely: Corbyn's policy pitch is not further to the left than Miliband's. It simply isn't, in any way, shape, or form. It's the same pitch!

As a test: try naming a part of Corbyn's policy pitch that Ed Miliband didn't pitch.

Most people pick renationalising the railways. That was actually an Ed Miliband policy, only he called it letting rail contracts expire and being picked up by public companies. Corbyn's proposing exactly the same mechanism; they just presented it differently.

Or Corbyn's minimum wage increase - it's the same policy as Ed Miliband's, but adjusted for the new economic projections. They're both based on OBR outlooks.

Or Corbyn's reintroducing private school VAT to fund free school meals. Not only was that in the Labour 2015 manifesto, it was also in the Labour 2010 manifesto under Gordon Brown!

If anything, Corbyn's biggest problem is that the policies he's running on just aren't far-left policies. They're pretty ordinary soft-left Labour policies that someone like Keir Starmer or Lisa Nancy would also run on. But Corbyn makes them seem more extreme than they are!

I mean... McDonnell has talked about introducing Robin Hood taxes (which would be fantastic coming from anyone but him) and Corbyn was talking about creating a National Education Service. Which I don't remember coming up at any point in a while (though will confess I'm not as up-to-date on Labour internal politics as you are)

 

[Breakage]

So much for her statement about how the UK is now stronger than ever, eh? She's bailing out because she realised she fucked up royally in regards to Brexit and the EU negotiations. She wants to run before any deal is set in concrete,

How does calling an early election allow her to bail out? Can someone explain this?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I honestly think LD are going to finish 2nd.

Pretty bold. Corbyn's Labour is still polling above the highest Liberal Democrat finish in history. Even allowing for Labour collapse and Liberal Democrat recovery, it's a hard stretch to see the LDs overtake.

People said this about the SDP in the '80s and it didn't happen then either.

 

[Charles Brandon]

 

[Walshicus]

I live in Chichester. The party closest to the Tories in the last election were UKIP.

Yeah, nothing I do matters.

Still voting though (Lib Dem).

 

[Gurgelhals]

Meanwhile in Continental Europe:

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

Lib Dems need to go after the angry Remain voters. Let's put some real opposition to hard brexit into the Commons.

 

[Charles Brandon]

This has to be the best way to vote.

A vote for Labour is another vote for hard brexit, unfortunately

 

[JonnyDBrit]

As an Irishman looking in I have to say I'm absolutely baffled at all the negativity around Corbyn. This is a man who genuinely wants a fairer and more egalitarian society and his policies are geared towards achieving that. He's a genuine labour socialist. Tow thirds of his MPs have shafted him and like you say the media have destroyed him. Do people really want another Blair leading the labour party. Brexit is going to have a massive effect here in Ireland so the softer brexit the better.

Because Corbyn's actions versus any rhetoric he spouts off has made clear: he is not popular among non-party members, and he probably isn't all too against Brexit either. There was a vote some weeks ago about granting the Prime Minister the power to trigger Article 50. The Conservatives put forth basically as simple a document as possible. Did Corbyn try to have the bill amended? Try to chain the Prime Minister in some way to deliver certain minimums for the sake of the British people?

Nope, pulled up the party whip and tried to get the entirety of Labour to support the bill as is. Then after it passed with his support, claimed 'the real fight over Brexit starts now'. He folded, and then tried to boast he was standing strong.

Yet, given the timing, I may end up voting Labour anyway. Because even though I'm a registered member of the Liberal Democrats now, here's how my constituency turned out in the last election:

 

[Cepheus]

This has to be the best way to vote.

Not if you live in a safe Tory seat area. ;( I'll still try and oppose it, but I can't see much happening from this.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Well we're boned. Looking forward to Emperor May having an even bigger mandate.

Live in a safe Labour seat so I'm gonna vote Lib Dem.

 

[iapetus]

I know the turbulence of an election campaign can change things profoundly but, looking at those current numbers and considering the electoral system, I just can't see it.

The Lib Dems are going to try to run this as EU referendum 2, this time with the boundaries set as hard Brexit vs everyone else. A *real* EU referendum 2 on those terms would result in a landslide "No fucking way" to hard Brexit. How much of that feeling the Lib Dems can mobilise is going to determine how much they manage to turn things around.

 

[Lashley]

I won't even bother voting. Northumberland is always labour who I'd vote for but the tories won't lose anyway.

 

[iapetus]

Lib Dems need to go after the angry Remain voters. Let's put some real opposition to hard brexit into the Commons.

I wonder how long it'll take them to...

Oh.

 

[iapetus]

I won't even bother voting.

Fuck right off.

 

[Jezbollah]

Looks like Corbyn is going to whip the party to vote for tomorrow's bill.

It's on, folks.

EDIT: Confirmed by Corbyn's statement. Election time.

 

[Übermatik]

I won't even bother voting. Northumberland is always labour who I'd vote for but the tories won't lose anyway.

VOTE.

 

[Protome]

I honestly think LD are going to finish 2nd.

LD will be lucky to take back 3rd from SNP, nevermind finish 2nd.

 

[liquidtmd]

I honestly could see Lib Dems coming second also and a mammoth swing against what the polls indicate.

The Brexit voters are celebrating but those who did a protest vote have had time to see what's happening and you've got 16 million pissed off Remainers.

Never say never.