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[DenchDeckard]

I met lufi and had a good catch up, grabbed some photos. Really nice guy.

Deffo schooled some peeps with that ps1 pad.

Skills are skills, just like controller vs kb and mouse in apex.....still...if you use controller....you're a controller scrub lol

 

[Crayon]

Thanks for posting this. All the comments about "easy win" and "bans" made me a bit laugh but didn't want to bother answering.
You can use whatever controllers you want in tournament as long as they don't offer unfair advantages (which Hitbox don't have).
For example a french player (Olivier "Luffy" Hay) always plays with a PS1 controller (and won Street Fighter 4's EVO 2014 with it)

I don't see the point of setting Hitbox aside from the others options.
On a regular controllers some peoples will use D-pad, others analog stick. Then some prefer Arcade stick (and here there is again some choice on the joystick). Then some others just wants pushing buttons with a hitbox (which is just a bother layout for D-pad basically).

Where are all the comments about easy wins?

 

[TagZ]

Ban that shit, yesterday.

Please tell us why?

 

[DelireMan7]

Where are all the comments about easy wins?

It was an image. Several stated that they are cheating (and so easy wins) for a feature (ability to press opposite direction at the same time) that is deactivate in tournaments.

 

[Art The Clown]

Tyrant in the Mortal Kombat community has the cleanest Jax play with a hitbox people will ever see.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

I'm aware of this. The thing is that no one has two thumbs on one hand for easy access to both directional inputs at the same time. Hitbox made an arcade stick that actually takes the input from analog and adds extra buttons to the right side, and it comes with software that might as well be macro software, really setting it in that these devices are basically just for cheating.

Cannot speak to the macro functionality of the controllers (or variants of the hit box by other manufacturers) I just plug and play on Pc/Ps.

With a growing number of pro FGC players using these types of controllers (I only play SF seriously so can only speak to that series) they will grow in popularity and continue to be an officially supported interface device.

 

[Mephisto40]

Why the hell is it so huge

 

[Crayon]

Please tell us why?

No thanks. I'm sure we've all done this a few times.

 

[TagZ]

No thanks. I'm sure we've all done this a few times.

That's what I thought...

 

[LegendOfKage]

Why the hell is it so huge

TWSS

 

[iHaunter]

I spent Almost $200 for my Elite 2 wireless controller. It got drift after 3 months. And the magnets on it are so weak, when I was playing It Takes Two with my GF, I kept flinging the left thumb stick off.

All these controllers seem to be a rip off.

 

[Solidus_T]

Cannot speak to the macro functionality of the controllers (or variants of the hit box by other manufacturers) I just plug and play on Pc/Ps.

With a growing number of pro FGC players using these types of controllers (I only play SF seriously so can only speak to that series) they will grow in popularity and continue to be an officially supported interface device.

Your favorite YouTube player who occasionally competes is not really the same as pros who have formed the competitive scene. Being honest about this; aside from Tokido and Daigo, no real fg pros are really using these besides mid level competitors who struggle against the giant OGs. Like Aris said, when people like Daigo and Tokido use them, we really begin to see how they offer an unfair competitive advantage - and by the way this is something that both of these pros have said flat out. Even Knee, widely regarded as the best Tekken player in the world, uses an arcade stick . JDCR, another behemoth in Tekken, reviewed the hixbox crossup, which is the arcade stick with extra buttons on the right that are mapped to directions I mentioned before, joked constantly about how he was basically cheating. SuperAkouma, who isn't really one of the OGs, but has made a name for himself, explicitly said he exclusively uses a hitbox because it gives him an edge.

Here's the clip where Aris describes the difference between pros using these devices vs your intermediate competitive player (language warning)


If you ask me, I would say that all arcade fighting games should only be played on arcades; that is with a normal arcade panel or arcade stick. The problem is that the competitive fighting game scene is on life support and depends on console and PC players to boost itself, and that is where we get sponsorships for these controllers. If the scene was bigger, there would definitely be some sort of rule set banning these devices, especially when people do things like use simultaneous opposite cardinal direction cancelling, mapping directions to shoulder buttons on controllers, etc.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Your favorite YouTube player who occasionally competes is not really the same as pros who have formed the competitive scene. Being honest about this; aside from Tokido and Daigo, no real fg pros are really using these besides mid level competitors who struggle against the giant OGs. Like Aris said, when people like Daigo and Tokido use them, we really begin to see how they offer an unfair competitive advantage - and by the way this is something that both of these pros have said flat out. Even Knee, widely regarded as the best Tekken player in the world, uses an arcade stick . JDCR, another behemoth in Tekken, reviewed the mixbox, which is the arcade stick with extra buttons on the right that are mapped to directions I mentioned before, joked constantly about how he was basically cheating. SuperAkouma, who isn't really one of the OGs, but has made a name for himself, explicitly said he exclusively uses a hitbox because it gives him an edge.

Here's the clip where Aris describes the difference between pros using these devices vs your intermediate competitive player (language warning)


If you ask me, I would say that all arcade fighting games should only be played on arcades; that is with a normal arcade panel or arcade stick. The problem is that the competitive fighting game scene is on life support and depends on console and PC players to boost itself, and that is where we get sponsorships for these controllers. If the scene was bigger, there would definitely be some sort of rule set banning these devices, especially when people do things like use simultaneous opposite cardinal direction cancelling, mapping directions to shoulder buttons on controllers, etc.

I don't think any competitive scene can increase their player base by restricting entry to their events, but that is just my opinion.

While I disagree with your viewpoint you are more than welcome to it, thanks for providing your perspective!

 

[Solidus_T]

I don't think any competitive scene can increase their player base by restricting entry to their events, but that is just my opinion.

While I disagree with your viewpoint you are more than welcome to it, thanks for providing your perspective!

I specifically mentioned that the shrinking fighting game scene as specifically the reason why these controllers are being legitimized... did you read my post?

Also, hitbox or leverless controllers being capable of more than an arcade lever or d-pad is not an opinion.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

I specifically mentioned that the shrinking fighting game scene as specifically the reason why these controllers are being legitimized... did you read my post?

Also, hitbox or leverless controllers being capable of more than an arcade lever or d-pad is not an opinion.

Yup I did. I also read where you said "If you ask me, I would say that all arcade fighting games should only be played on arcades; that is with a normal arcade panel or arcade stick."

We have differing opinions on several points, I thanked you for sharing your perspective and I moved on. You should do the same.

 

[TagZ]

Your favorite YouTube player who occasionally competes is not really the same as pros who have formed the competitive scene. Being honest about this; aside from Tokido and Daigo, no real fg pros are really using these besides mid level competitors who struggle against the giant OGs. Like Aris said, when people like Daigo and Tokido use them, we really begin to see how they offer an unfair competitive advantage - and by the way this is something that both of these pros have said flat out. Even Knee, widely regarded as the best Tekken player in the world, uses an arcade stick . JDCR, another behemoth in Tekken, reviewed the hixbox crossup, which is the arcade stick with extra buttons on the right that are mapped to directions I mentioned before, joked constantly about how he was basically cheating. SuperAkouma, who isn't really one of the OGs, but has made a name for himself, explicitly said he exclusively uses a hitbox because it gives him an edge.

Here's the clip where Aris describes the difference between pros using these devices vs your intermediate competitive player (language warning)


If you ask me, I would say that all arcade fighting games should only be played on arcades; that is with a normal arcade panel or arcade stick. The problem is that the competitive fighting game scene is on life support and depends on console and PC players to boost itself, and that is where we get sponsorships for these controllers. If the scene was bigger, there would definitely be some sort of rule set banning these devices, especially when people do things like use simultaneous opposite cardinal direction cancelling, mapping directions to shoulder buttons on controllers, etc.

"when people like Daigo and Tokido use them, we really begin to see how they offer an unfair competitive advantage" It's like iDom on a ps4 pad never beat Daigo on a hibox at Evo... oh wait. You talk about the competitive scene being on life support but you want all fighting games to be played on a now, near enough extinct platform and not to mention the number one used controller for fighting games are pads.

"technically compared to an arcade stick or even a d-pad, they are cheating. You can press all of the directions at the same time" then this "simultaneous opposite cardinal direction cancelling", I like how you changed that up lol! and to touch on that, you are talking about shortcuts, those have nothing to do with the controller itself, that's how the games were developed and the developers not taking into account Hitbox since it's still niche. In SFV a dp has a different shortcut on Hitbox than a dp in GGST on Hitbox. "it comes with software that might as well be macro software" I've never even seen this software you were talking about earlier to make macros? I have a Brook board and the only software that I have is to update patch the board.

You have such a passionate hate for Hitbox controllers, don't you think it's a bit strange that you're in the minority with this hate? most people have no issues with it. If it's so obviously cheating then why hasn't someone like Rick the Hadou banned them from Combo Breaker and Evo? Do you somehow believe that "Hitbox" the actual company is some mega corporation? shelling out lol... the mega bucks?

I think the core of this situation comes down to you losing against a hitbox player at your local?

https://www.evo.gg/rules Hitbox follows the rules

 

[Solidus_T]

"when people like Daigo and Tokido use them, we really begin to see how they offer an unfair competitive advantage" It's like iDom on a ps4 pad never beat Daigo on a hibox at Evo... oh wait. You talk about the competitive scene being on life support but you want all fighting games to be played on a now, near enough extinct platform and not to mention the number one used controller for fighting games are pads.

"technically compared to an arcade stick or even a d-pad, they are cheating. You can press all of the directions at the same time" then this "simultaneous opposite cardinal direction cancelling", I like how you changed that up lol! and to touch on that, you are talking about shortcuts, those have nothing to do with the controller itself, that's how the games were developed and the developers not taking into account Hitbox since it's still niche. In SFV a dp has a different shortcut on Hitbox than a dp in GGST on Hitbox. "it comes with software that might as well be macro software" I've never even seen this software you were talking about earlier to make macros? I have a Brook board and the only software that I have is to update patch the board.

This is a comically seething post in response to basic factual and cordial arguments, but I'll entertain a reply here.

Hitboxes had been even in tournaments since at least 2006 from my memory, but nobody really complained because everyone using one was basically a scrub. All of a sudden, Daigo picks it up and his gets banned in 2019, leading to a discussion where people are repeating themselves from 10 years prior.

The reality was that, all along, the device allowed you to press multiple directions at the same time, which is impossible on a lever or a d-pad, and it means you could do crazy things that are impossible with a pad or an arcade stick. Even without SOCD, it still gives you this edge. Add SOCD, and it is like adding cork to a corked bat. All of a sudden I can perfectly time charge fireballs and not even have to move, or perform 4 frame supers, PEWGF better than Qudans or Ryan Hart, SS in Tekken out of forced crouch etc.

Your attempt to conflate SOCD with the basic theory behind an arcade lever or a d pad an exercise in dishonesty, and you know it.

In fact, that type of dishonesty is standard. I've been playing fighting games since Super Turbo - the games themselves nowadays are much easier to play in general. Many long time pros will tell you that the best ones in each series have already released (ST or 3S for Street Fighter, Tekken 5DR for the Tekken series, etc.) Devs are constantly finding ways to make them "accessible," adding new, easy characters or easing execution to max out a character's potential, and some of them like Street Fighter, have tons of execution shortcuts built into the system. Take these along with mechanics that have gradually rewarded the losing player in the round for "comebacks" and we have games that are made to make money, and not necessarily guarantee that the better player always wins.
Why do I mention all of this? Even if a series makes its best iteration, they have to continue generating content for the game; it has to be hype for a layperson audience/twitch viewer, they have to make more of the games and ultimately it has to be profitable. Capcom doesn't make any money when I play 3S for another 5 years. The same goes for the community. They need more people to play and buy the games, which has created a sort of crisis where they need to earn money from really scrubby players who complain about any effort they have to put into the game.

Take this for example:

Fighting game devs see a player like this, and think "we have to try to get them to buy the game."
The same ultimately goes for Tournament organizers, who need to get more people to enter tournaments. With a shrinking player base, TOs will make concessions to rules that were previously widely understood as the standard. Some tournaments have been hosted by these companies.
Also we have the issue with dying arcades, which is really sad for many reasons. One of the consequences of this is that there isn't an arcade standard and games are now being targeted for smartphones and consoles. Most people will play on a pad with a console, and that is how most people understand the games, and then it becomes really hard to enforce standard rules like a sport, and I think it should be treated more like a sport for obvious reasons.

You have such a passionate hate for Hitbox controllers, don't you think it's a bit strange that you're in the minority with this hate? most people have no issues with it. If it's so obviously cheating then why hasn't someone like Rick the Hadou banned them from Combo Breaker and Evo? Do you somehow believe that "Hitbox" the actual company is some mega corporation? shelling out lol... the mega bucks?

I think the core of this situation comes down to you losing against a hitbox player at your local?

https://www.evo.gg/rules Hitbox follows the rules

This is where we really get to the heart of your reply, which is that you don't really have one. You are substituting one for personal, vulgar and juvenile attacks against me, even alleging my supposed "hate" for these devices or that I got beat by someone in locals. I actually do play on mixbox (WASD movement left hand) sometimes like TheMainMan, and like TMM, I will also admit that it gives me an edge. I also have several arcade sticks and I've played GGPO on my keyboard. The issue is that you don't even understand why so many pros say this. If you are in your home playing a fighting game, do whatever. When it comes to a tournament, we have enough issues with people cheating, even mapping directions to shoulder buttons on pad. Everyone should get a level playing field. No pay to win bullshit when we are playing for money.

Anyway, I hung up my tournament jersey long before even Aris did. Why even care I guess


EDIT: Image link messed up
Also let me add, since I didn't really flesh out the point on hitbox crossup being a macro device: https://www.hitboxarcade.com/blogs/cross-up/importing-and-exporting-profiles-on-cross-up
Just look at this.

 

[TagZ]

This is a comically seething post in response to basic factual and cordial arguments, but I'll entertain a reply here.

Hitboxes had been even in tournaments since at least 2006 from my memory, but nobody really complained because everyone using one was basically a scrub. All of a sudden, Daigo picks it up and his gets banned in 2019, leading to a discussion where people are repeating themselves from 10 years prior.

The reality was that, all along, the device allowed you to press multiple directions at the same time, which is impossible on a lever or a d-pad, and it means you could do crazy things that are impossible with a pad or an arcade stick. Even without SOCD, it still gives you this edge. Add SOCD, and it is like adding cork to a corked bat. All of a sudden I can perfectly time charge fireballs and not even have to move, or perform 4 frame supers, PEWGF better than Qudans or Ryan Hart, SS in Tekken out of forced crouch etc.

Your attempt to conflate SOCD with the basic theory behind an arcade lever or a d pad an exercise in dishonesty, and you know it.

In fact, that type of dishonesty is standard. I've been playing fighting games since Super Turbo - the games themselves nowadays are much easier to play in general. Many long time pros will tell you that the best ones in each series have already released (ST or 3S for Street Fighter, Tekken 5DR for the Tekken series, etc.) Devs are constantly finding ways to make them "accessible," adding new, easy characters or easing execution to max out a character's potential, and some of them like Street Fighter, have tons of execution shortcuts built into the system. Take these along with mechanics that have gradually rewarded the losing player in the round for "comebacks" and we have games that are made to make money, and not necessarily guarantee that the better player always wins.
Why do I mention all of this? Even if a series makes its best iteration, they have to continue generating content for the game; it has to be hype for a layperson audience/twitch viewer, they have to make more of the games and ultimately it has to be profitable. Capcom doesn't make any money when I play 3S for another 5 years. The same goes for the community. They need more people to play and buy the games, which has created a sort of crisis where they need to earn money from really scrubby players who complain about any effort they have to put into the game.

Take this for example:

Fighting game devs see a player like this, and think "we have to try to get them to buy the game."
The same ultimately goes for Tournament organizers, who need to get more people to enter tournaments. With a shrinking player base, TOs will make concessions to rules that were previously widely understood as the standard. Some tournaments have been hosted by these companies.
Also we have the issue with dying arcades, which is really sad for many reasons. One of the consequences of this is that there isn't an arcade standard and games are now being targeted for smartphones and consoles. Most people will play on a pad with a console, and that is how most people understand the games, and then it becomes really hard to enforce standard rules like a sport, and I think it should be treated more like a sport for obvious reasons.


This is where we really get to the heart of your reply, which is that you don't really have one. You are substituting one for personal, vulgar and juvenile attacks against me, even alleging my supposed "hate" for these devices or that I got beat by someone in locals. I actually do play on mixbox (WASD movement left hand) sometimes like TheMainMan, and like TMM, I will also admit that it gives me an edge. I also have several arcade sticks and I've played GGPO on my keyboard. The issue is that you don't even understand why so many pros say this. If you are in your home playing a fighting game, do whatever. When it comes to a tournament, we have enough issues with people cheating, even mapping directions to shoulder buttons on pad. Everyone should get a level playing field. No pay to win bullshit when we are playing for money.

Anyway, I hung up my tournament jersey long before even Aris did. Why even care I guess


EDIT: Image link messed up
Also let me add, since I didn't really flesh out the point on hitbox crossup being a macro device: https://www.hitboxarcade.com/blogs/cross-up/importing-and-exporting-profiles-on-cross-up
Just look at this.

You're absolutely cracked, cordial discussion was thrown out the window from your very first post with "they are cheating".

Imagine being so far up your own ass with "basic factual", the fact is theses controllers are tournament legal and you are still using this example of Daigo being banned in 2019 for using a "Gafrobox" with "last win" socd cleaning. That is not tournament legal and shows you don't even know the rules, even though I gave you the specific link to them.

("You can press all of the directions at the same time")
-To put it straight in front of your eyes-

-Evo Input Rules-

1. The controller may not send simultaneous opposite cardinal directions (SOCD) game inputs. SOCD inputs include Left+Right and Up+Down. This is typically enforced by adding "cleaning" firmware to the controller which removes one of the inputs before passing to the game. "Stock" gamepads (e.g. the Playstation DUALSHOCK®4) are explicitly exempt from this rule.

I guess your Daigo example from 2019 is finally dead?

Another fact: You don't want to have a discussion, you're using examples from years ago that are in no way valid in todays tournaments, from your very first post it is clear that you want hitbox gone and claim that it is for people that want to cheat. Yes, I'm the one "conflating" and being "dishonest" when you don't even have the correct information.