Support NeoGAF

[Geist-]

I thought it was already proven that the alleged sexual harassment rumors were actually referring to another comedian?

 

[Perfect Blue]

I think one thing that is often overlooked in these situations is that it's not just about the power someone like Louis would have. It's pretty well known that sexual harassment of actresses and females in Hollywood is commonplace. The last thing these powerful men, who have much more power than Louis, want is a wave of women coming forward. They are the ones that are far more likely to ruin someone's career than a single comedian, regardless of how popular he is.

Are you a diehard Louis fan...?

 

[ISWThunder]

If I'm understanding this right, men in Hollywood, generally being regular sexual harassers, prefer to discourage public outing of sexual harassment in general for fear of having to be responsible for their actions down the line?

That's obvious, but not my point. I'm saying that it's not as simple as outing a single person like Louis CK, who has some power. It's the people with real power, well above Louis CK, that make victims afraid of outing someone like Louis.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Bill Cosby.


That is all.

 

[Strangelove77]

Is CK really powerful enough for people to be afraid of completely exposing him? Can he actually ruin your career?
All it takes is a few well known and respected comedians to blow the lid off the whole thing and he's fucked. I'd say he has more to lose than they do.

 

[wenis]

I thought it was already proven that the alleged sexual harassment rumors were actually referring to another comedian?

thats a common misconception, but Stanhope took the blame as a joke.

Is CK really powerful enough for people to be afraid of completely exposing him? Can he actually ruin your career?
All it takes is a few well known and respected comedians to blow the lid off the whole thing and he's fucked. I'd say he has more to lose than they do.

Before Louie premiered, yea, he would be toppled by this. 2 seasons of that show and countless specials and mainstream cred, no he can push back just as hard now.

 

[Valtýr]

Is CK really powerful enough for people to be afraid of completely exposing him? Can he actually ruin your career?

He's currently one of the top 5 comedians in the world.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Matching stuff, basically. Inviting girls up to his room under innocent pretext, then locking the door and doing basically masturbating on them or some other weird shit while simultaneously preventing them from leaving. I didn't hear that it ever went as far as direct rape, but sexual assault would probably still apply.

I trust the friend in question quite strongly, and these stories aren't in a vacuum. I wouldn't bring the guy to trial over secondhand stories, but I'd say it's much more likely than not that at least some of the allegations are true.

Thanks for sharing. Much more information than what Roseanne or Tig were providing.

 

[ISWThunder]

Are you a diehard Louis fan...?

Huh? I'm not defending him in the slightest. I'm simply saying that he's likely not the person that victims fear will ruin their career. It's the far more powerful people who also do this shit that they are afraid of.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Hey, remember that time Louie (in the show) forced himself on Pam Adlon's character and she called him a rapist but he still gets with her in the end?

 

[Fuchsdh]

is it possible that the victims fear professional retaliation because although he's a comedian, he's a powerful comedian?

is it possible they haven't pressed charges because there is a variety of behavior that is disgusting, offensive, violating, and not illegal or not easy to prove forensically?

Of course. But this is still a question of right or wrong. If I don't report a crime because I'm scared of the splashback on me or I "don't want trouble", it doesn't make me atypical but it would make me a coward.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Is CK really powerful enough for people to be afraid of completely exposing him? Can he actually ruin your career?
All it takes is a few well known and respected comedians to blow the lid off the whole thing and he's fucked. I'd say he has more to lose than they do.

"Making it" in the entertainment world is already like scratching a lottery ticket, so he's making an enemy of one of the most well know and successful people in your specific field can just make things that much harder.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Of course. But this is still a question of right or wrong. If I don't report a crime because I'm scared of the splashback on me or I "don't want trouble", it doesn't make me atypical but it would make me a coward.

Woah you can't just take control from the victim like that. Not unless they are minors.

Edit: oh wait. I misunderstood, you're just straight up victim blaming. Cool.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Of course. But this is still a question of right or wrong. If I don't report a crime because I'm scared of the splashback on me or I "don't want trouble", it doesn't make me atypical but it would make me a coward.

If the fears were legitimate no it would not make someone a coward. But calling potential victims of sexual assault and harassment cowards does make someone an asshole.

 

[RumbleHumble]

That's obvious, but not my point. I'm saying that it's not as simple as outing a single person like Louis CK, who has some power. It's the people with real power, well above Louis CK, that make victims afraid of outing someone like Louis.

Got it.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Of course. But this is still a question of right or wrong. If I don't report a crime because I'm scared of the splashback on me or I "don't want trouble", it doesn't make me atypical but it would make me a coward.

congratulations on being brave enough to pseudonymously call sexual harassment victims cowards on the internet

 

[Fuchsdh]

If the fears were legitimate no it would not make someone a coward. But calling potential victims of sexual assault and harassment cowards does make someone an asshole.

Yeah it does. It's the textbook definition of the word.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Hey, remember that time Louie (in the show) forced himself on Pam Adlon's character and she called him a rapist but he still gets with her in the end?

Fuck me. I completely forgot about that season.

Thanks for the flavorwire article, btw, reading through it now.

 

[Inferno313]

Of course. But this is still a question of right or wrong. If I don't report a crime because I'm scared of the splashback on me or I "don't want trouble", it doesn't make me atypical but it would make me a coward.

I suggest you read up on how the vast majority of rape/harrasment cases end up going.

Fucking 38% of rape accusations lead to no arrest. Many rape trials end up being very harrowing for the victims, as the defendant's lawyers will often treat the victim as if they were the one who caused this. "Why are you trying to ruin our client's life?" Stuff like that.

I don't begrudge ANY woman who doesn't want to make formal accusations. The deck is stacked against them considerably.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Yeah it does. It's the textbook definition of the word.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Yeah it does. It's the textbook definition of the word.

You need a new textbook. Also look up empathy when you get one.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Fuck me. I completely forgot about that season.

Yeah, I love that show but that shit was so uncomfortable and gross and it really made me think, like, "that feels true."

It definitely lowered my opinion of him a lot.

I get that the character of Louie is not a role model but the message is pretty hard to take any other way than "it's okay to be a creep and continually force yourself on a woman who says no because eventually she will see the light and say yes."

 

[Boem]

Yeah it does. It's the textbook definition of the word.

You gotta stop, kid.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Yeah, I love that show but that shit was so uncomfortable and gross and it really made me think, like, "that feels true."

It definitely lowered my opinion of him a lot.

I hoped Louis was going to really do something great with that initial sequence by having actual consequences happen. But nope. Happy ending. In the worst, nebbish sort of way.

 

[HotHamBoy]

I hoped Louis was going to really do something great with that initial sequence by having actual consequences happen. But nope. Happy ending. In the worst, nebbish sort of way.

Like, the entire arc of their relationship is some bullshit Friend Zone fantasy.

 

[Darth Pinche]

Hey, remember that time Louie (in the show) forced himself on Pam Adlon's character and she called him a rapist but he still gets with her in the end?

Man that really was uncomfortable for me, and while I like some of his stuff, I have not been as much a fan since then.

 

[Messofanego]

Hey, remember that time Louie (in the show) forced himself on Pam Adlon's character and she called him a rapist but he still gets with her in the end?

The creepiest moment of the whole show.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Like, the entire arc of their relationship is some bullshit Friend Zone fantasy.

It's a real personification of my worst fears about how he thinks of himself. Like if he feels like his character earns that ending after that bullshit....just...fuck.

 

[Username1198]

Exactly how do you stop rapists and harassers if people don't come forward, exactly?

At the end of the day, this "powerful man" is a damn comedian. If you're afraid of crossing him because of your career, you are tacitly accepting more victimization for the sake of your own job. That's cowardly, whether you're a victim or know someone who is and still say nothing.

How many more women were victimized by Cosby and others because it took years for someone to straight-up say what people were talking about in hushed tones?

Wait what? I'm not agreeing with you. My point is they are not cowards. They are victims of sexual assault. How they deal with it, whom they tell, when they tell is probably different for every victim. Just because they don't immediately come forward doesn't make them cowards. Ffs, reread what your saying. Your calling victims of sexual assaults cowards! But becuase they don't immediately come forward they are asking for more? What's wrong with you???

 

[HotHamBoy]

The creepiest moment of the whole show.

"You can't even rape well."

That's a line in the show. Played for laughs.

 

[Blader]

I'm tired of all the fucking tip-toeing around going on. If Louis CK is sexually harassing or assault other women, then just say so. Who is being helped by the vague allusions or implications without using any actual names? What is anyone supposed to do with secondhand allegations?

I understand the dynamic of women, in comedy or any business, being silenced through intimidation by abusers who wield real power over them. What I don't understand is the thought process of "I don't want to invite any blowback by calling Louis CK a sexual harasser, I'm just going to imply it many times and put as much daylight between him and myself in order to underscore those implications." I don't understand how that gets around any retaliation and I don't understand what the value of that is at all.

thats a common misconception, but Stanhope took the blame as a joke.

Says who?

I hoped Louis was going to really do something great with that initial sequence by having actual consequences happen. But nope. Happy ending. In the worst, nebbish sort of way.

Didn't she write that whole sequence with him and defend it afterward?

 

[iammeiam]

Yeah it does. It's the textbook definition of the word.

Sexual harassment of female comedians by male comedians isn't new, or rare, or surprising.

It's a larger problem, and speaking out generally does not go well for these women:

A female comedian in Los Angeles says she feels ashamed of herself for needing to speak anonymously. “I wish that I believed that I could just be an angry woman in public and not be looked down on as hard to work with,” she says, adding that a woman who spoke out about sexism or abuse would be “persona non grata” in the comedy community.

She says she was once asked out by her male boss when she interned at UCB, and describes a separate instance in which a male comic put her in a cab under the guise of comforting her when she was crying, then took her to his house and tried to have sex with her.

The comic describes the disbelieving reactions of her male friends to the assault allegations as “triggering,” and says it makes her feel hopeless. “I don’t have the words to convince this other person that they’re wrong or that what they’re doing is hurtful. I don’t feel like I want to armor up about this.”

CK being in the position of power he is, and that most of the allegations are around inappropriate but not potentially verifiably illegal things, makes it unsurprising women aren't flinging themselves in harm's way to publicly make accusations that won't change anything. It's depressingly pragmatic--without any reason to believe anything would actually be done to fix the situation, why set their careers on fire to speak out and be dismissed?

The actual problem at hand is larger than CK, but his fame and prominence makes it even less worthwhile for women to step forward as they're even less likely to be treated fairly.

 

[RumbleHumble]

Didn't she write that whole sequence with him and defend it afterward?

It doesn't look like she wrote it, but she did defend it. I didn't find anything about her defending the ending where he got with her though:


http://time.com/2953344/pamela-adlon-louie-rape-scene/

 

[HotHamBoy]

Didn't she write that whole sequence with him and defend it afterward?

She didn't write the script but she did defend it. So what? It's terribly misguided.

"When I read it I was dying laughing, because in the script he said, “Louie approaches her closing off the ring” — which is like a boxing terminology — and then he said, “and she’s holding on to the walls and furniture like a cartoon cat.” So when I read it, it read hilariously. Then on the day that we were shooting it, I was like, “Let’s really get into it,” and I grabbed the dresser and all of that. And then at a certain point, I looked at him and I said, “Somebody might get mad.”

"The notion that we’re being careless and putting some kind of dangerous message out is offensive to me. But I can’t help what people feel and what reaction they give to things. I said something to Louis at the beginning of this season, which was that when we’re doing stuff, more than going for a laugh or anything — or a reaction — we’re going for a feeling."

 

[MidnightCowboy]

"You can't even rape well."

That's a line in the show. Played for laughs.

In the moment it's a pretty funny line. It diffuses the situation fairly well (from a viewer's perspective).

 

[wenis]

Says who?

I believe it was himself. Doug Stanhope. Maybe on twitter, it was awhile ago I'd have to really dig to find it, but it could also be in the many other Louis threads that have popped up here before.

 

[Blader]

I believe it was himself. Doug Stanhope. Maybe on twitter, it was awhile ago I'd have to really dig to find it, but it could also be in the many other Louis threads that have popped up here before.

I remember Stanhope saying that the story was him, and I remember other people on GAF saying well he's clearly just joking/taking the fall for his friend, but I don't ever recall Stanhope outright saying he was just joking. Then again, I don't pay much attention to Doug Stanhope's social handles!

 

[RumbleHumble]

I believe it was himself. Doug Stanhope. Maybe on twitter, it was awhile ago I'd have to really dig to find it, but it could also be in the many other Louis threads that have popped up here before.

It read to me like a joke, but, being a facebook post, it could be read differently:

https://www.facebook.com/officialstanhope/posts/10150756375231337?sw_fnr_id=2344023484&fnr_t=0

 

[Fhtagn]

I thought it was already proven that the alleged sexual harassment rumors were actually referring to another comedian?

Nothing about this has been proven in a way that would justify the word proven being used.

A comedian with a much smaller fan base claimed it was about him. He’s got a ton less to lose than Louie, and since none of the people making allegations have said, yeah, it was him, it’s pretty clearly a joke or someone providing cover for a friend.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

I believe it was himself. Doug Stanhope. Maybe on twitter, it was awhile ago I'd have to really dig to find it, but it could also be in the many other Louis threads that have popped up here before.

Yeah, Stanhope definitely said he was the real subject of the blind item. This Notaro wrinkle lends credence to the argument that it really was about Louis, for me, even accounting for that thing about Louis supposedly stealing her "clown performance for solo dude" idea from her short film. The whole thing is depressing because I like every one of the comics involved. I hope it isn't true but it feels like it is.

Edit: removed the names of the comedians rumored to be assaulted.

I have to say, that rapey scene from that Louis episode does look quite creepy, and that bit from his standup special where he does a lengthy jerk-off pantomime bears mentioning.

 

[siddx]

I always got the impression from his comedy and his interviews that he knows he is a deeply deeply flawed man who has a pretty insightful and progressive point of view on most subjects but often lacks the self control, desire, or empathy to act on those points of views in reality. I wouldn't have much trouble believing he did what he has been accused of, I also wouldn't have much trouble believing he knows how wrong and shameful they were.

 

[HotHamBoy]

I always got the impression from his comedy and his interviews that he knows he is a deeply deeply flawed man who has a pretty insightful and progressive point of view on most subjects but often lacks the self control, desire, or empathy to act on those points of views in reality. I wouldn't have much trouble believing he did what he has been accused of, I also wouldn't have much trouble believing he knows how wrong and shameful they were.

It's the never-ending art vs artist debate.

Great art usually comes from broken people.

 

[Goodstyle]

These rumours on his conduct around women have been swirling around for years. It's a ticking time bomb at this point. Enjoy him while you can, because when all this blows up on Louis, it will be extremely messy.

 

[HStallion]

These rumours on his conduct around women have been swirling around for years. It's a ticking time bomb at this point. Enjoy him while you can, because when all this blows up on Louis, it will be extremely messy.

Personally I think they'll give him a life time achievement Oscar and he'll get a standing round of applause from the Hollywood elite.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Nobody would be surprised.

 

[RRockman]

Welcome to show business.

I've directed the voice work for more than one AAA video game and am not even in the credits for that game. I've written stuff I'm not credited for too. I've had executive producers on films that literally nobody ever met in person.

It makes more sense in the middle of everything.

Soooooo, are you going to leave us hanging? Credits please!

 

[lenovox1]

Welcome to show business.

I've directed the voice work for more than one AAA video game and am not even in the credits for that game. I've written stuff I'm not credited for too. I've had executive producers on films that literally nobody ever met in person.

It makes more sense in the middle of everything.

You need to get into the Writer's Guild. Like, ASAP.

 

[Guevara]

I mean, effectively she is rationalizing her continued business relationship with him. Clearly it makes her uncomfortable.

 

[firehawk12]

I just finished the series and it's weird how upfront it is. They even mention a fictionalized version of the Facebook group where female comedians would basically talk about the shitty male comedians that would creep on them... so someone is trying to bring this up through the writing, even if Tig seems to be purposefully avoiding it.

 

[TheOddOne]

Both of these were published yesterday:

- THR: Why Tig Notaro Took on Sexual Assault in Her Amazon Series.
- EW: Louis C.K. addresses 'rumors' of sexual misconduct, Tig Notaro calling him out.