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[Chittagong]

Back in the day, I was working on promoting Nintendo. It was February 1997, and we were having our main N64 PR event in a sking resort up north Scandinavia. We were launching the device for a planned premium price of 1995 FIM (around 350 eur), while PlayStation was selling at 1495 FIM (around 250 eur). Our price was considered a bit on the high side, but doable since the N64 was a hot item and Nintendo traditionally strong in Scandinavia.

After a day of sking, the party was starting good, people loved Super Mario 64 and everything was looking promising. Then a old friend of mine who had moved from us to PlayStation in '95 gave me a call. "Hey, listen, sorry to interrupt your party, but I figured that you'd be interested to know that we just announced a price drop to 995 FIM (around 150 eur)."

I had dismissed Sony more or less up until that. At that point, however, I got a very strong feeling that we will be so fucked by Sony. Our managing director and marketing director gave panic calls to Nintendo of Europe, as did apparently all the other European countries. Nintendo promised to come back to us. The party was ruined, however.

The next week Nintendo of Europe came back with a new, aggressive proposal. Now, we would be starting the sales of N64 for a considerably lower price of 1395 FIM (around 230 eur). Just under the N64 street day on 1.3.1997, Sony started a major campaign, illustrating how much more the PlayStation was. It even had a CD player, a big selling point back then.

1996 had been pretty slow for Sony, but starting from that point, it was all Sony domination. And has been ever since. After being completely humiliated with the N64, I left the company in 1999.

If Sony knows one thing well, it is to ruin a party.

 

[SantaC]

Edit: Nevermind...

 

[fugimax]

Funny, I was reminded of the E3 Playstation/Saturn 0wnage by Sony when they announced a price $100 less.

Sony once again taking it in the ass in an attempt to push a true gaming company out of the gaming industry.

 

[Chittagong]

what swedish magazine did you or work on?

Not a mag, I was with Bergsala then, in Finland.

 

[SantaC]

Not a mag, I was with Bergsala then, in Finland.

um yeah now I read the whole paragraph. Sorry.

 

[Mashing]

The only difference here is that the Gamboy Empire is much stronger than any marketshare they ever had in the home console arena (during the times it actually had competition that is).

It won't be easy for sure, but if anyone can do it, it's Sony. I will forever hate Sony if they do run Nintendo out of hte market completely though. I still need my Nintendo games fix.

 

[SantaC]

I will forever hate Sony if they do run Nintendo out of hte market completely though. I still need my Nintendo games fix.

So will many gamers. This industri still needs Nintendo.

I miss the old sega also.

 

[GDJustin]

In your analogy I see the DS as the PS1 and the PSP as the N64. People were thinking $200 DS so sony was thinking $300 PSP. Then Nintendo announces $150 DS and Sony flips nuts and changes their plans.

 

[Insertia]

I don't think the 'Gameboy Empire' is strong, so much as it is extremely uncontested.

I believe if a superior product is on the market with great games, it can be easily swayed.
Gameboy buyers are about as casual as consumers can be.

 

[nfreakct]

I long for the days when not every single little piece of news relating to Nintendo would either restore Nintendo to soaring heights or completely crush the company into oblivion.

 

[fugimax]

I don't think the 'Gameboy Empire' is strong, so much as it is extremely uncontested.

Do not..

Do not...underestimate...the power...of the Pokemon.

 

[Link316]

there's really no difference Nintendo was just as strong, if not stronger when they had 90+% of the market with the NES, and I doubt Sony will run Nintendo completely out of the market, they'll still be around as a 3rd party cause there's no way they'll be leaving all that money on the table

 

[M3wThr33]

there's really no difference Nintendo was just as strong, if not stronger when they had 90+% of the market with the NES, and I doubt Sony will run Nintendo completely out of the market, they'll still be around as a 3rd party cause there's no way they'll be leaving all that money on the table

When Nintendo leaves hardware, they leave software. They're one in the same. When will you learn to accept that?

 

[fugimax]

When Nintendo leaves hardware, they leave software. They're one in the same. When will you learn to accept that?

I can't imagine a gaming industry without Mario...without Link..

Further, I doubt Nintendo would ever sell these franchises off. If they did leave hardware, I do think they'd go 3rd party exclusive for either Sony or MS.

 

[mrklaw]

I think it'll fragment. There will be clear space between cheap (GBA/maybe DS eventually), and expensive (PSP)

So you could argue that Sony might bring handheld gaming to an older audience, one that isn't usually associated with GBA (even in its SP guise)

I don't see gameboy going away but, like with Gamecube to a degree, Nintendo might pull back the troops to defend its primary children's market. I don't see Sony getting anywhere near there until its price gets to $129, which will take a long time, and the market will have shifted yet again.

I wonder if Sony fancy eventually bringing the PSP out with a smaller screen at a cheap price, and introducing a PSP2? Two on the market at once - one gunnning for Nintendos market, one for the higher disposable income bracket?

 

[Lord Error]

Sony once again taking it in the ass in an attempt to push a true gaming company out of the gaming industry.

Last I remember, Sega is better off now, profits and all, than when they were in the hardware industry.

 

[ElyrionX]

When Nintendo leaves hardware, they leave software. They're one in the same. When will you learn to accept that?

Explain?

 

[Mashing]

Well, Nintendo says when the leave the hardware business that is when they leave the market entirely... I just don't see that happening like they say though. When it comes down to it they will make games for Sony or Microsoft (or whoever) because they still have franchise power and they could still make profit (albeit, smaller profit).

I really don't care what system the games are on as long as they continue to make games I'll play them.

 

[TekunoRobby]

Last I remember, Sega is better off now, profits and all, than when they were in the hardware industry.

But Sonic isn't goddamnit.

 

[Solid]

Further, I doubt Nintendo would ever sell these franchises off. If they did leave hardware, I do think they'd go 3rd party exclusive for either Sony or MS.

Indeed. Thinking something else is just delusional.

 

[Tritroid]

Request #124 to bring back the rolleyes.

:ROLLEYES

First of all, let's remember that it wasn't only the price drop that allowed the PSX to dominate over N64, it was the backing of many scorned 3rd parties who saw the Playstation as an open green pasture. Square being the main one.

That coupled with the optical format being superior to carts and more tech-savy, as well as the price, and (probably the biggest reason) Nintendo's poor planning in having a maximum of 2 launch games with a complete hole of nothingness for the following months, were all reasons that lead Sony to success.

That is not the case here.

Simply because the PSP is going to launch at a lower price than was previously expected (Even though the value pack will still be roughly around 200$), that doesn't automatically mean they can claim victory. The DS price is set lower than PSP, there is a solid number of games for launch of both portables, 3rd party support is overwhelming for both (Square possibly even more towards DS than PSP this round), and both have tech-savy hardware designs that will attract people for different reasons.

So for the love of God, stop trying to compare this to the PSX/N64 era simply because the PSP is going to be set 20 dollars below what was previously expected. The fact is we'll have to actually wait and see what happens when both are on the market battling it out for supremacy.

 

[jarrod]

I don't think the 'Gameboy Empire' is strong, so much as it is extremely uncontested.

I believe if a superior product is on the market with great games, it can be easily swayed.
Gameboy buyers are about as casual as consumers can be.

The Game Boy market isn't just casual though, at least not in the "PlayStation casual" sense. Game Boy is seen as almost disposable gaming... it's seen as a time waster and something for kids. That the reason for the low attach rates, cheap hardware and kid friendly library.

Both PSP and DS are being set up as premium machines... and as such I really doubt either comes close to doing what GBA has in terms of userbase or market penetration... at least not until either is under $100 or has Pokemon.

 

[jarrod]

Last I remember, Sega is better off now, profits and all, than when they were in the hardware industry.

Profits coming solely from their amusment side, despite no more hardware associated losses... and now they're owned by a former competitor, losing talent left and right and their game library is a comparative joke. "Better off" is highly subjective I guess...

 

[Chittagong]

Request #124 to bring back the rolleyes.

:ROLLEYES

So for the love of God, stop trying to compare this to the PSX/N64 era simply because the PSP is going to be set 20 dollars below what was previously expected. The fact is we'll have to actually wait and see what happens when both are on the market battling it out for supremacy.

The only thing I said was similar is their ability to pull off incredible annoucements at the right points of time - ruin the party, essentially.

I have two DSs in preorder, as well as a majority of the US and Jap games. I have also a PSP in preorder since today, so I do not have a favorite in this race - although before today I was convinced that Nintendo had it figured out better than Sony.

If you look back some of my old posts, you'll see that the last time I've been as hyped as I'm now with the DS was when N64 launched.

But today, the props go to Sony.

 

[fennec fox]

First of all, let's remember that it wasn't only the price drop that allowed the PSX to dominate over N64, it was the backing of many scorned 3rd parties who saw the Playstation as an open green pasture. Square being the main one.

Ask a third party what it's like to sell a GBA game in the US these days.

The fact is we'll have to actually wait and see what happens when both are on the market battling it out for supremacy.

I still believe that the DS and PSP are shooting for fundamentally different markets. It's just that one market, with this price drop, is suddenly just as potentially large, if not larger, than the other.

 

[goodcow]

Last I remember, Sega is better off now, profits and all, than when they were in the hardware industry.

Sega is shit now. Yeah, they're "better off."

 

[Tritroid]

The only thing I said was similar is their ability to pull off incredible annoucements at the right points of time - ruin the party, essentially.

I have two DSs in preorder, as well as a majority of the US and Jap games. I have also a PSP in preorder since today, so I do not have a favorite in this race - although before today I was convinced that Nintendo had it figured out better than Sony.

If you look back some of my old posts, you'll see that the last time I've been as hyped as I'm now with the DS was when N64 launched.

But today, the props go to Sony.

I still don't see how this 'ruined a party'. It's not like the price is below that of DS'. If it was, I'd understand. Once you factor in the Value pack, and the next-up pack (I forget its name) it's still going to be 200$ and 250$ respectfully. (I'm assuming)

So other than a low price announcement, which has happened multiple times over the gaming years, I don't see many similarities.

Ask a third party what it's like to sell a GBA game in the US these days.

If you're refering to the licensing fees, they're nothing like what they were during the SNES to N64 days.

I still believe that the DS and PSP are shooting for fundamentally different markets. It's just that one market, with this price drop, is suddenly just as potentially large, if not larger, than the other.

I'd understand this logic, if you tried to say that the Gamecube and PS2 are in different markets, which they aren't. Demographics yes, in a sense, but not different markets. Sony and Nintendo both can try and claim they're aiming at different markets with their portables, but we all know the end result will be direct competition.

 

[jarrod]

Ask a third party what it's like to sell a GBA game in the US these days.

Can we ask THQ?

 

[border]

So for the love of God, stop trying to compare this to the PSX/N64 era simply because the PSP is going to be set 20 dollars below what was previously expected.

Good lord, talk about bullshit spin. If you started a "How much will it cost?" thread on this forum yesterday, nobody but the most ridiculous head-in-the-clouds Sony fanboys would have said $220 or less. It was pretty widely "expected" at $300 or above.....all but one market analyst said prices were gonna be sky-high.

Just look at how many of this board's supposed industry insiders got skewered, after months of high predictions. None of them expected something sub-$200.

To say that expectations were just mildly undercut is ridiculous, and ignores the real point -- the price difference between the PSP and its most direct competitor is virtually negligible compared to the inreased featureset, and now a ton of people will probably just be buying the PSP immediately rather than waiting for a price drop or killer app.

 

[Tritroid]

Good lord, talk about bullshit spin. If you started a "How much will it cost?" thread on this forum yesterday, nobody but the most ridiculous head-in-the-clouds Sony fanboys would have said $220 or less. It was pretty widely "expected" at $300 or above.....all but one market analyst said prices were gonna be sky-high.

Just look at how many of this board's supposed industry insiders got skewered, after months of high predictions. None of them expected something sub-$200.

To say that expectations were just mildly undercut is ridiculous, and ignores the real point -- the price difference between the PSP and its most direct competitor is virtually negligible compared to the inreased featureset, and now a ton of people will probably just be buying the PSP immediately rather than waiting for a price drop or killer app.

Granted, the PSP is lower than most expected. Myself included. However, most predictions I saw (that weren't totally out in left field anyway) had the PSP set at 200$-250$ (People saying 300$ were just naysayers). So 185$ is basically 20$ give or take below what was estimated. How is that bullshit spin?

And even then that's for the barebone deal. How many people are going to choose that over the value pack which will no doubt roughly be 200$?

 

[jarrod]

Hey, I said $300... and I would've paid it too.

 

[kaching]

I said $300 too. And I think I'm probably one of the last people to be considered a naysayer regarding the PSP 'round these parts

 

[Celicar]

Sorry. I just don't see it happening

 

[Chittagong]

I said initially this spring 399 USD. Remember, with the talk from the Activision big guy with his ridiculous 500 USD price predictions or something like that.

Then, after summer, I lowered my expectation to 299 USD / 299 eur. I believed that such a price would already be pushing the profitability to the red.

Initially, I figured that Nintendo DS would be 199 USD, or 179 USD at minimum - which would be very affordable. So, the 149 USD price seemed an extremelly aggressive. I more or less counted Sony out at that point (should never count Sony out, I know) as their components are very expensive. I thought they would be able to get anywhere close, and that their multimedia strategy had stumbled to the too greedy specs. So yes, the 185 USD / 145 eur price was an enormous shock to me - and probably pretty much to the industry.

Sony is really willing to take it in the ass for PSP.

 

[Soul4ger]

I said $300 too. And I think I'm probably one of the last people to be considered a naysayer regarding the PSP 'round these parts

I'm still a naysayer. The price is a bargain, considering the components, but Sony and third-parties haven't showed me anything unique to the handheld. I'm worried about games, not music or movies, and I can play nearly everything on the PSP anywhere else, without having to spend anotoher $200 to $250 just for hardware. I'm positive that my opinions aren't shared by everyone, I'm not going to delude myself, but, yeah...

Great price, for the HARDWARE. I still want to see stuff worth buying it for. Even though I will buy it, but that's because I'm a completist asshole.

 

[segasonic]

The only difference here is that the Gamboy Empire is much stronger than any marketshare they ever had in the home console arena (during the times it actually had competition that is).

They're not fighting against Gameboy in the first place. Gameboy is a kid's machine: They get the system as a gift, then buy one or 2 games and lose their interest like with all their other toys. Hence the shitty aspect ratio.

Once again Sony is aiming for a more mature market, which in return will make the PSP look cool in the eyes of kids as well. Sony can't lose, especially with a weak competitor like the DS. Thousands of worthless gadgets instead of a streamlined machine that focuses on established concepts and just executes them in a much better way. If Nintendo launched a real GBA2 against PSP instead of the Virtual Boy 2 (=DS) then it'd be much harder for Sony. But DS against PSP? It'll be N64 vs PSX all over again.

Nintendo can't win this.

 

[Soul4ger]

They're not fighting against Gameboy in the first place. Gameboy is a kid's machine: They get the system as a gift, then buy one or 2 games and lose their interest like with all their other toys. Hence the shitty aspect ratio.

Once again Sony is aiming for a more mature market, which in return will make the PSP look cool in the eyes of kids as well. Sony can't lose, especially with a weak competitor like the DS. Thousands of worthless gadgets instead of a streamlined machine that focuses on established concepts and just executes them in a much better way. If Nintendo launched a real GBA2 against PSP instead of the Virtual Boy 2 (=DS) then it'd be much harder for Sony. But DS against PSP? It'll be N64 vs PSX all over again.

Nintendo can't win this.

Nintendo couldn't win, regardless. Even if they produced a high-spec, focused gaming machine, maybe with even stronger capabilities than the PSP, it would've just been a repeat of the current console situation. Just with a shorter time between release, which wouldn't have made a difference.

I disagree with you on another account, too. I think the DS is more focused than the PSP, with its multifunctional use, especially with music and movies on a separate format and all that jazz. I think the DS is a solid product, a great idea, but you can't force something different on anyway, developers/publishers and consumers alike. The PSP is familiar, so it's easier for the game makers and the game buyers to come to terms with. I'm more excited about the DS, but I recognize that I'm in the minority. People are just too willing to like more of the same thing, as long as it has a coat of glossy paint on it.

 

[border]

However, most predictions I saw (that weren't totally out in left field anyway) had the PSP set at 200$-250$ (People saying 300$ were just naysayers).

If that "most predictions" that you saw, then you probably weren't reading this board, or anything from the Wall Street market analysts. This is seriously some post-shock spin. The "$200" predictions are very few and far between.

Remember when Bruno Bunnell said that it was going to be $500 to start?

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=812

Random quotes from http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=15241

"I don't think you're off the mark for the Japanese release. $300 for the US." (kaching)

"I'm guessing 38000y Japanese, $299 U.S. People say I'm crazy for shooting so high, but..." (JackFrost)

"So i think: 33.000 yen Japan, 299$ Usa, 299€ Europe" (Elios83)

"no way will it be $300 when released in the US" (sohka)

"I predict a Japanese launch price of $400-$500 for PSP." (JC10001)
"Yeah something like that. It'll probably fly off the shelves even with that price." (Midas responding to JC10001)

"$/€300 for both Europe/US." (ouromov)

"I'm jumping for joy (not literally of course) if Sony quotes less than $300 for PSP. I'm not counting on it though." (XS+)

"I highly doubt it'll launch for anything less then $250." (clipunderground)

"38,000 yen --- $299" (doglifter)

"I know this will be $299. Apple made that so. They know people are shelling out more than that for the iPod. In Sony's mind there's way more functionality in the PSP, so they could charge whatever they wanted and we'd (well I would to a point) pay it regardless." (DaCocoaBrova)

"My updated guess is - PSP 299USD / 39 900 yen initially, assuming earlier Jap launch." (Chittagong)

"48000 PSP" (DCharlie)

"$249 for PSP" (mashoutposse)

"Okay I'll put my bid in at $299 Japan $249 US and if the DS starts selling well (which I don't expect) - selling at $229." (Phoenix)

 

[Tritroid]

What exactly does listing a few price estimates that you picked out of a hat prove?

 

[sprsk]

most people were definitely expecting 300. there was no information proving that it would be any less. But its not, and thats good. Now i get to play that makai wars for psp

Im not jumping up for joy until people actually get it in their homes though. Battery life is still an issue.

 

[border]

What exactly does listing a few price estimates that you picked out of a hat prove?

You said that the system was 20 bucks below most predictions.....but most predictions were upwards of $250, and often $300 or beyond. You haven't done anything to illustrate that "$200" was a common sentiment, much less the agreed consensus of market watchers. The presidents of major publishers were saying $300-500. $300 was so commonly bandied about that it became probably the most expected price, so much so that entire polls and threads were centered around it.

I am just pointing out the silliness of the after-the-fact spin you're putting on things. People wouldn't be going so crazy if this weren't such a totally unexpected move, and if they had thought the system was locked in at $200.

 

[kaching]

I'm still a naysayer. The price is a bargain, considering the components, but Sony and third-parties haven't showed me anything unique to the handheld. I'm worried about games, not music or movies, and I can play nearly everything on the PSP anywhere else, without having to spend anotoher $200 to $250 just for hardware. I'm positive that my opinions aren't shared by everyone, I'm not going to delude myself, but, yeah...

That's fair. I'm personally waiting to hear and see more about a few western developer efforts, like Planet Moon's (Infected) and Ignition Entertainment's (Mercury) projects. On the japanese launch period list, I'd like to see how Rengoku turns out - it's not much of a looker, but it started to look intriguing on the gameplay front based on videos from TGS. Lumines as well. Further out there's Coded Arms from Konami that shows some promise.

 

[seismologist]

I'm still a naysayer. The price is a bargain, considering the components, but Sony and third-parties haven't showed me anything unique to the handheld. I'm worried about games, not music or movies, and I can play nearly everything on the PSP anywhere else, without having to spend anotoher $200 to $250 just for hardware. I'm positive that my opinions aren't shared by everyone, I'm not going to delude myself, but, yeah...

I'm with you there. $200 isn't as big a coup as some people are making it out to be. So you pay $200 for what's essentially a GBA with better graphics, fewer games, longer load times and 1/4 the battery life. It's not exactly calling me to rush out and buy one.