Tomb Raider 10th Anniversary Edition officially announced

Pimpbaa said:
Now the sequel to Legends is going to take even longer to come out. Damn you Crystal Dynamics with your stupid cliffhanger endings!
Click to expand...

It sounds like they are almost done with this one. Perhaps a different team?
 
Sounds really weird,I don't think Eidos/Scii is so stupid to spend money on making two versions of the game (Core and Crystal) and then choose the better at the end of development :lol
Maybe Core Design was making it but it sucked so much (graphics apart I guess) that they decided to switch the project to Crystal and to make it also for PS2 and PC.
 
a) this should be a remake of both 1 and 2 (the only great ones on PS1 -- and 2 was the better one imo)

b) where the hell is the 360 version?
 
Elios83 said:
Sounds really weird,I don't think Eidos/Scii is so stupid to spend money on making two versions of the game (Core and Crystal) and then choose the better at the end of development :lol
Maybe Core Design was making it but it sucked so much (graphics apart I guess) that they decided to switch the project to Crystal and to make it also for PS2 and PC.
Click to expand...

Probably. Nobody seems to agree with me, but Core sucks.
 
Elios83 said:
Maybe Core Design was making it but it sucked so much (graphics apart I guess) that they decided to switch the project to Crystal and to make it also for PS2 and PC.
Click to expand...

Core actually had a PS2 version in development also. Had Core dropped in quality over the year? Yah its kind of hard to argue they haven't. But that remake looked fantastic, and everything they've said about it indicated it would be Tomb Raider. They were also including Legend style gameplay elements like Lara's acrobatics and other gameplay extras. If they really had the controls in play, i'm not sure why anyone would be against them doing the remake.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Core actually had a PS2 version in development also. Had Core dropped in quality over the year?
Click to expand...

I thought they were banned from making video games by the elite league
of me and Y2Kevbug11
 
McBacon said:
I thought they were banned from making video games by the elite league
of me and Y2Kevbug11
Click to expand...

:lol

Yes, Core had, considering the last Tomb Raider people actually like is TR2.
 
The majority of the AoD team ended up forming Circle. The Core who were working on this consisted of some old-skoolers & some new people (AFAIK).
The people & buildings that were once Core are now Rebellion Derby; SCI/Eidos retain the Core name for whatever purpose.

Simple really. :)
 
omg rite said:
a) this should be a remake of both 1 and 2 (the only great ones on PS1 -- and 2 was the better one imo)

b) where the hell is the 360 version?
Click to expand...
Holy smokes, no. The original TR had much more adventure, exploration and ( most importantly ) an intriguing storyline. I must have played through the entire game from start to finish at least 20 times. The puzzles were brilliant and the environments, like St. Francis Folly and Atlantis, were amazing. Oh, and the soundtrack still reigns supreme as one of my all-time favorites.

Unfortunately, the second game just didn't have that same magical quality about it. I thought the whole premise was hokey - find a chinese dagger that can turn you into a dragon? C'mon now. Some of the levels were inspired, like the sunken ship, but overall the game just felt too gritty and depressing, and lacked most of the charm of the original.

I agree with you that there should definitely be a 360 anniversary edition. :)
 
I thought some of the TR2 levels were simply too big.

Unless the level is broken into two and I just can't remember, the Venice level is massive.
 
I don't know how much truth there is to it but the current rumor is that its not a remake in the same sense that Core's game was, it's more like a greatest hits collection where they take the most famous stages in the seres and remake them.
 
SolidSnakex said:
I don't know how much truth there is to it but the current rumor is that its not a remake in the same sense that Core's game was, it's more like a greatest hits collection where they take the most famous stages in the seres and remake them.
Click to expand...

That might be better, actually.

Goddamnit give us BOTH, stupid Eidos.
 
SolidSnakex said:
I don't know how much truth there is to it but the current rumor is that its not a remake in the same sense that Core's game was, it's more like a greatest hits collection where they take the most famous stages in the seres and remake them.
Click to expand...

considering the only good ones were the first two in the series, i hope it's TR1+2.
 
Y2Kevbug11 said:
That might be better, actually.

Goddamnit give us BOTH, stupid Eidos.
Click to expand...

It's a terrible idea I think. Although I guess whats good is that the rumor originates from Games Radar who's often very wrong.
 
LOL, then it IS wrong.

Oh, here's a shot I found on TRC:

tihocan28ct.jpg


Proves that Core's engine has typical PSP problems. It still looks amazing though. Lara looks almost like a supermodel there instead of an acrobatic explorer.
 
It depends on how CD designs the 10th anniversary game.

If it's a PSP project, it will look great (read IGN's review on the PSP bonus content). If it's a PS2 port, it's gonna be ass.

Core's project looked great but probably played like Tomb Raider of old instead of Legend. I hope that Core rebrands it and modifies the levels and sells it as a new game. That way we can play it!

Sure is a shame they were almost done.
 
I just bought the Playstation version of Tomb Raider 1 tonight for $2.99 used and played through the first few levels. I really don't see how they could remake the game using the new moves and such, without totally changing the level design.

The dealbreaker lies in two things:

1.) Whether the upgraded environments are basically identical in art design. Playing through the original again, and the design and atmosphere is top notch. It's quite amazing how interesting and compelling the levels look despite being two generations old technology. They need to recreate the atmosphere with new art assets WITHOUT changing the art direction too much.

2.) Whether they keep the same musical score / use ONLY atmospheric music and sound effects with some orchestration here and there, like the original. PLEASE do not try to pull some Legends techno music while plowing through caves. It will totally kill the atmosphere. From playing a couple hours I can tell how carefully timed music plays heavily into the player's reward in the original.

BTW, there's a lot of debate now about whether Crystal Dynamic's version is actually a remake (a'la Core's cancelled remake) or something else entirely.
 
Xdrive05 said:
I just bought the Playstation version of Tomb Raider 1 tonight for $2.99 used and played through the first few levels. I really don't see how they could remake the game using the new moves and such, without totally changing the level design.
Click to expand...

In the case of Cores remake that's what they were doing. They added in the moves from Legend and had changed the level designs in some ways for those to fit in properly. They can't change them too much though as you'll lose what made people like that game so much.
 
SolidSnakex said:
In the case of Cores remake that's what they were doing. They added in the moves from Legend and had changed the level designs in some ways for those to fit in properly. They can't change them too much though as you'll lose what made people like that game so much.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It would make the most sense to keep the basic level design and add ways to use the new moves and such. But what I would be really concerned about is if they try to add voice-over (like with Zip in Legends), and the grappling hook and stuff. That might be taking it too far. But yeah, the new moves could work I suppose. But they would need to bring back the long jump, or shorten the gaps or something.
 
SolidSnakex said:
In the case of Cores remake that's what they were doing. They added in the moves from Legend and had changed the level designs in some ways for those to fit in properly. They can't change them too much though as you'll lose what made people like that game so much.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely convinced you'd need Legend's moves if it was a straight/tweaked port of the original. Analog/Legend control would be a must (although if you look at the video, it doesn't animate like it is that way) and the jumping should be fixed to be less completely maddening...although, again, same observation with the animation: it looked like the original (lara comes down from a jump slightly slower than she takes off--trademark of the series).

The levels will need a significant redesign if that's what CD is doing. There aren't any poles sticking out anywhere and analog control + easy jumping would make the game pretty easy.
 
I just hope they take out the part in TR1 where
you pull the lever and the boat floats over to your side of the waterway(its been a while so not to clear on the details.)
That part always irked me with the original, seemed like the devs just got lazy.
 
Core finally speaks out on being dropped from Eidos, and what people saw as the downfall of the TR series. From this months Edge

So where does Core lay the blame for what went wrong with TAOD? “Ok. Right,” begins Rummery, and an explanation that’s been dammed up for three years starts to tumble out. “Angel Of Darkness was a product of the old Core. Internally, we hadn’t changed much as a studio from the first Tomb Raider games. It was a small team, working in isolation- very small teams, actually, the original TR was six people. Even by TR5 it had only got up to the heady heights of 14, 15 people, so suddenly, for TAOD, it was a whole new process. Writing a new engine completely from scratch, even though we’d already developed PS2 engines within Core, because that was the way we worked. Thirty-five-odd people, the biggest team we’d ever had - tiny for a AAA PS2 game, but still the biggest team we’d ever worked with - and we had this deadline. It had to be out in a couple of years, and people just weren’t confident from the start that we could do it. But that was the way we were told it had to be and, you know, we’d managed to hit all the deadlines in the past, so we hoped we could do it. As it went on it started to become more apparent that it couldn’t be done, but Eidos were like - it’s got to be out , we haven’t had our big TR rush of cash, it’s got to be out, no ifs and buts. So it got past the Christmas slot, and it got closer and closer to their year -end, and they just said it has to come out, full stop. So at that point it was like a machete was taken to the game and the design, and it was hacked to pieces. The guys on the fan sites have dug around in the code and found all the content that was never wired up in the final game. It was just a shadow of the game it was supposed to be. Things like the character progression - the ‘I feel stronger’ when she pushes boxes - that was just the last stage of a much more complicated system which got cut out.”
Click to expand...

Rummery, one of the team behind the original game, has a veteran’s perspective: “People sometimes forget that when you are an internal studio, you just have to do what you’re being asked to do. By the time we were doing the late PlayStation games the teams here saying: ‘Look, could we work on something else now, or do we have to do another one?’ It really started at the end of TR2. After the first game, when Toby decided to go because he was very pisseded off with the way Eidos had decided to market his game, the rest of us stayed on. A few more people joined to work on the next game, but at the end of that we were burnt out. And then Eidos said: ‘Right, time for number three!’ and it was like - oof - we don’t want to do a number three. We had already put all of our ideas into TR2. In the first game there were things we didn’t get around to putting in, but in the sequel we took it and made it a bit different, made it a bit more James Bondy. The two games complemented each other - we put in many new things, new moves, vehicle sections. I couldn’t really see, at that stage, where to go. And to be honest, where have the other games gone? Just more moves, more stuff, more vehicles. Nothing really has gone into the mix that wasn’t there in the first couple of games. So we all stopped working on it and moved onto other projects, trying to escape the franchise, but where we weren’t lucky is that it turns out you can’t do that successfully in a studio which is making the next game in a big series, because the other projects just won’t get the attention they need. So we learnt that to our cost, too.”
Click to expand...

In fact, we shared some of those ideas with Crystal, and they used them in Legend…” He shrugs, but it’s clear the new incarnation of Lara is a sore point. What’s it been like, watching another team develop what must feel like their baby?
“It’s been hard. What’s been hard is knowing we could have done it, and knowing we could have done a good job. It would have been very easy to make another game and fix the mistakes of TAOD, because it was not fundamentally broken, it just needed to be finished off, but that opportunity went away. So we just had to sit back and watch Crystal doing it. And the reality is obviously they have produced a good game. But the frustration for us is that they’ve been given all the time they needed and a phenomenal budget. It’s a budget bigger than the we received for the previous six games added together - twice that, in fact - and it’s really frustrating, because if we’d had that money…” Another shrug.
Click to expand...

If nothing else it kind of puts everything into perspective and shows it wasn't all Core's fault about what happened to the series. In large part it seems like what happened is what alot of people thought happened, Eidos became so dependant on TR that they kept forcing Core to make them even at the expect of the quality.
 
Interesting snippets from Core, though I think they're pushing it with the last paragraph. There were some serious fundamental design flaws in AOD that stayed through from early preview builds to the final cut, and considering they were complaining about how difficult it was to all of a sudden work with a larger team, I fail to see what a larger budget would've done for them, unless they equate that to spending an extra year or two on the game.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Core finally speaks out on being dropped from Eidos, and what people saw as the downfall of the TR series. From this months Edge

If nothing else it kind of puts everything into perspective and shows it wasn't all Core's fault about what happened to the series. In large part it seems like what happened is what alot of people thought happened, Eidos became so dependant on TR that they kept forcing Core to make them even at the expect of the quality.
Click to expand...

90% of the time it's the publisher that is the worst offender. This example here is typical of what's going on it the industry. And even more today as we see even more sequels and sequels of sequels. And games are now "franchises" and they start as a planned trilogy. Jesus Christ.
 
Heian-kyo said:
Interesting snippets from Core, though I think they're pushing it with the last paragraph. There were some serious fundamental design flaws in AOD that stayed through from early preview builds to the final cut, and considering they were complaining about how difficult it was to all of a sudden work with a larger team, I fail to see what a larger budget would've done for them, unless they equate that to spending an extra year or two on the game.
Click to expand...

Bigger budgets would've allowed them to bring in better talent to work on the game. Which is a big benefit CD had, they had a giant budget and was allowed to bring in alot of talent to help on the game. It's also interesting that one of the most praised changes to Legend was the movement, and it looks like atleast some of that came from Core

“We learned a lot form it - a lot of very good techniques for moving a character around. In fact, we shared some of those ideas with Crystal, and they used them in Legend…”
Click to expand...
 
I know Core probably got screwed in the end, but I just don't totally give them the COMPLETE benefit of the doubt.

In the end, Angel of Darkness was still a completely broken game (contrary to what they say) mechanically. It didn't control intuitively or even naturally, Lara still was incredibly clumsy for some type of acrobatic adventurer, and the game was entirely too square-based despite not being on a grid system.

Did Core make fundamental improvements? Yes, and I'm sure they had many more planned that got cut or didn't make it. The "leveling up" system was interesting, the story was GOOD, and the ability to talk and interact with NPCs was handled uniquely and it actually mattered in terms of the game's plot. However, after all this is said and done, you still have a broken game with unforgiving controls, cluttered with unfun jumps and some of the most frustratingly bizarre designs yet...the Serpent Rouge was such a good idea executed so poorly.

AoD's shooting/gunplay system was also--unquestionably-- a step back and utterly confusing. The game just doesn't play or control like a modern title...actually, it doesn't play or control like any 3d title released after the original Tomb Raider, and that's a shame. You can have your huge budget and your five year development cycle, but Core still didn't GET it. You have to start small and they just didn't fix the problems. They probably had ideas, but their do-over-- supposedly Angel of Darkness-- was still the same fundamentally flawed game that the previous fifty Tomb Raiders were.

Crystal Dynamics did a better job than anyone could have asked for in really tearing down the game's mechanics and building up a spectacular foundation for what is sure to be a rejuvinated, fun Tomb Raider series from here on out. CD did things people have been asking Core to do for years. Not only did CD fix the mechanics (by far the biggest problem), they restored Lara's personality, gave her the best storyline yet, and put her in a situation that Lara Croft would really have found herself in-- a reason Toby Gard left the project in the first place.

Legend was really a step or two away from being a phenomenal game. If it was just a bit longer and ditched those really terrible motorcyle bits, they would undoubtedly have a candidate for adventure game of the year and I just don't see that coming from Core ever. The new Tomb Raider games are fun, fresh, and fast...Core just wasn't cutting it.

CD is just a better development studio than Core ever was. It has little to do with the talent afforded by a larger budget, IMO, because CD was always better than Core...and CD had the structural and mechanical base for Tomb Raider in the Soul Reaver games. Core just sucks. Sorry for hating on them.
 
Y2Kevbug11 said:
Legend was really a step or two away from being a phenomenal game. If it was just a bit longer and ditched those really terrible motorcyle bits, they would undoubtedly have a candidate for adventure game of the year and I just don't see that coming from Core ever. The new Tomb Raider games are fun, fresh, and fast...Core just wasn't cutting it.
Click to expand...

Legend is still my favorite game of the year so I don't disagree with how much they've eben able to improve the series. But with that said, I do wonder what Core could've done if they were given what Eidos gave CD for Legend.

Y2Kevbug11 said:
CD is just a better development studio than Core ever was. It has little to do with the talent afforded by a larger budget, IMO, because CD was always better than Core...and CD had the structural and mechanical base for Tomb Raider in the Soul Reaver games. Core just sucks. Sorry for hating on them.
Click to expand...

I disagree there. You don't make TR or TR2 if you suck. It's just not a possiblity. Their 10th Anniversary game, atleast from the trailer, looked amazing also. They definetly had talent, and maybe they never could've produced another TR that's up to those 2 or even Legend, but I do think they were great. I'd really like to get to play their version of the 10th Anniversary just to see who does more justice to the game.
 
SolidSnakex said:
I disagree there. You don't make TR or TR2 if you suck. It's just not a possiblity. Their 10th Anniversary game, atleast from the trailer, looked amazing also. They definetly had talent, and maybe they never could've produced another TR that's up to those 2 or even Legend, but I do think they were great. I'd really like to get to play their version of the 10th Anniversary just to see who does more justice to the game.
Click to expand...

I'll agree with you that it looked amazing, but it still played like TR1 based on what we saw. In fact, you could visible see SOME things they "might have suggested" to CD...things like the quick-response button presses to save Lara from falling off edges...but it still animated the same and she still ran with the same lack of momentum that she did forever.

I, of course, would love to get that game too because I love Tomb Raider 1 and 2. When I look back at those games, though, I'm not so sure Core had talent as much as they had (and maybe still do have) vision. They certainly had an awesome game, but it is easy to see what concessions gamers made because it was the first of its kind. It feels antiquated even going up against Super Mario 64.

We'll never know. TRL was a big hit. It's amazing, but TR4 actually sold over 3 million copies. Hm.
 
According to PSM, Crystal Dynamics intend to explore the now famous tombs from Tomb Raider using the Tomb Raider Legend engine. Another upgrade will be some 10,000 polygons now adorning Lara Croft, rather than the mere 500 which catapulted her onto the front cover of THE FACE in 1997.
Click to expand...

We are leaning towards the theory that Tomb Raider 10th Anniversary will be an amalgamation of the best bits from Tomb Raider and Tomb Raider II, using the latest in video-game technology to restore Lara Croft to digital perfection.

Eidos has confirmed Tomb Raider 10th Anniversary is a one-off title to celebrate both Lara Croft and Tomb Raider,
Click to expand...

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/headlines2788.html

Something should be showing up soon if they're actually going to make it out in its 10th Anniversary.
 
Superbone said:
Interesting that the 360 is being left out for the "Anniversary" edition.
Click to expand...

Strange indeed. Maybe it's either a new or the old (regarding a couple of TR titles) exclusivity deal with Sony?
 
SolidSnakex said:
Core finally speaks out on being dropped from Eidos, and what people saw as the downfall of the TR series. From this months Edge




If nothing else it kind of puts everything into perspective and shows it wasn't all Core's fault about what happened to the series. In large part it seems like what happened is what alot of people thought happened, Eidos became so dependant on TR that they kept forcing Core to make them even at the expect of the quality.
Click to expand...

Okay, but that's entirely from the perspective of Core, it's impossible to know how much of it was true and how much of their claims, such as giving ideas to CD and CD having a super budget compared to them, are true, and how much is exageration and sour grapes.
 
Die Squirrel Die said:
Okay, but that's entirely from the perspective of Core, it's impossible to know how much of it was true and how much of their claims, such as giving ideas to CD and CD having a super budget compared to them, are true, and how much is exageration and sour grapes.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine some of it is sour grapes, I mean Eidos took their series and told them to screw off which isn't going to sit well with anyone. But Legend really did look to have higher production values than the other games, although its not really possible to judge just how much higher it was. Eidos probably will never speak out on it, Tomb Raider is back on track now which is all they really wanted.
 
SolidSnakex said:
I'd imagine some of it is sour grapes, I mean Eidos took their series and told them to screw off which isn't going to sit well with anyone. But Legend really did look to have higher production values than the other games, although its not really possible to judge just how much higher it was. Eidos probably will never speak out on it, Tomb Raider is back on track now which is all they really wanted.
Click to expand...

Yeah pretty much. I doubt Eidos or CD are ever going to give their side of the story. That side of it have got what they want, so the only past I think they'll be keen to dig up are the tombs Lara will be raiding.

But dammit I want more info and screens and movies and downloadable demos of this new anniversary game. After TRL I'm mouthwateringly anticipating some (old) new Tomb Raider.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

LTTP: Tomb Raider (2013)
16
374
Gamerguy84 replied
Next month is the 10th anniversary of Bloodborne
2 3
105
3K
Effigenius replied
Nintendo Switch Direct officially announced
2
60
3K
DKPOWPOW replied
Is Tomb Raider twitter teasing the next Tomb Raider reveal at The Game Awards?
2
82
4K
ShaikhCroft replied
Skyrim SE vs Anniversary edition for PS5?
18
877
Panajev2001a replied
Top Bottom