Tomb Raider VGA 'Survivor' Trailer

Omg @ the IGN walkthrough @ 9:40.

Noah Hughes: "People get the impression that the game is really linear, but we always try to create these pockets of exploration. Just as an example, we've learned to shoot the lanterns, and if you noticed when we shot the first lantern that we actually got a challenge notification, so I have 2 of 5 lanterns now."

tombraiderxpa6oy7h7qy9.png

Also, the UI designer must have been drunk or think that the player is insanely stupid by repeating the same information twice (lanterns destroyed, lanterns destroyed).

Seriously, the mental gymnastics needed to excuse linearity by having arbitrary collect-athons must be pretty fucking huge.

Jesus fucking christ, that's a serious quote? This game might even be more disastrous than my current level of pessimism and my hands-on impressions say, judging by this and the game director's comments about why Lara should be autograbbing ledges to prevent her death and shit. Absurd.

I can't wait to collect Lanterns. True freedom!

It's not even like the Tomb Raider games were particularly nonlinear, but this is just a new level. Let the player figure shit out and die, for Christ's sake. Arne of Naughty Dog and neoGAF fame are fucking wrong: death does NOT suck. it's a tool for teaching the player to learn from his/her mistakes! Stop retarding the game community, developers!

As should the original tomb raider team for the creation of uncharted.

But yea, I agree with you on that shot lol

No. Just no:

Uncharted has nothing to do with the original TR games.

If you have said they copied (to an extend) Tomb Raider Legend that i could agree with.

Yes, just yes. God Uncharted and traditional Tomb Raider play so differently that it's like a gut stab every time somebody tries to act like this is just the natural evolution of the series. No, it's not. Uncharted played itself during platforming segments, absolutely terrified the player might stop and die and not allow them to experience some bullshit uninterrupted seamless set piece that Naughty Dog wants to shuffle you through which looks so amazing but has absolutely no tension and the gameplay excitement of an 80 year old great grandmother playing Bridge.

Uncharted is roughly made up of maybe 40% combat, you're constantly being shuffled into combat 'arenas' where you have to take out an ever-increasing flow of idiot A.I. enemies. Tomb Raider games - the traditional ones, anyway - are roughly made up of 5% combat. The combat pretty well sucks in TR games, but no one gave a shit because they were so rare. And then when you did encounter something, the moment was special. Uncharted's combat doesn't suck, can be pretty fun at times even, but it's nothing even remotely near like what I'd want in a true Tomb Raider game (and not this pretender).

Uncharted has puzzles so laughably shitty in design that my six year old niece could solve them - literally, in this case, since I was playing a level with her at some point and asked her to try to figure out how to get through a puzzle that I already knew how to solve, and she did it in no time flat. Tomb Raider games often had complex multilevel puzzles that extended into sometimes half a dozen rooms or more, each a cog in a larger puzzle to get you to a new place in a Tomb, each with the very real chance of stumping an educated gamer for a little bit of time. And anyway, Uncharted games have so few puzzles that it seems unfair to even compare. If Uncharted is 40% combat and Tomb Raider is 5%, Tomb Raider is 40% puzzles and Uncharted is 5%.

Uncharted is made up of godawful play-itself platforming segments where everything is so exactly labeled PLEASE CLIMB HERE and when you do start climbing, there's hardly ever a chance that a player is going to even come near death's door. Shit, sometimes during those "set pieces" where you're climbing and ledges are breaking, you can actually move to a ledge which is creaking and breaking away from the wall as you climb, and then just sit there... and no matter when you decide to jump to the next ledge, it'll always so conveniently break the second you leap off. HOW TENSE! Tomb Raider was made up of long extended platforming segments, sometimes in the deepest dark, where you were often making jumps that you had to hold your breath and hope Lara extended her arms for, because even a little timed off and you were screaming to your horrible death. And this shit is far more tense and gameplay rad then any of the tortured "Lara Croft is in pain" moments that they have shown in any trailer or gameplay video so far.

These games share so little in common. Tonally, gameplay wise or focus. It's all just fluff because Lara Croft hunts for treasure and Nathan Drake hunts for treasure, and sometimes occasionally Nathan makes it into a tomb to boot.

Is she not a bit cold climbing around in mountains during a snowstorm in a tanktop?

Even as far back as Tomb Raider 2 the developers realised they ought to make some concessions to reality with her clothing.

To be fair to this game, I think she crashed on this island so it hardly makes sense she'd be dressed to go...


I mean it's not particularly surprising, is it? Games in this particular genre now have to have at least 14 platforming scenes where stuff is breaking as you climb, but you're never actually in any real danger since the game will just blissfully wait around until whenever the moment is you decide to leap, conveniently dismantling the beam below you at the last second no matter how you perform! But it sure looks swell! ;)
 
Jesus fucking christ, that's a serious quote? This game might even be more disastrous than my current level of pessimism and my hands-on impressions say, judging by this and the game director's comments about why Lara should be autograbbing ledges to prevent her death and shit. Absurd.

I can't wait to collect Lanterns. True freedom!

It's not even like the Tomb Raider games were particularly nonlinear, but this is just a new level. Let the player figure shit out and die, for Christ's sake. Arne of Naughty Dog and neoGAF fame are fucking wrong: death does NOT suck. it's a tool for teaching the player to learn from his/her mistakes! Stop retarding the game community, developers!

"Lara, where are you?! We want to go home!"

"So do I, but first I have to collect 10 Infada Stones to boost my XP so I can upgrade my tank top! I've already found 2!"

But despite killing waves of enemies or going off on a carefree jaunt through a side tomb and collecting stuff, she'll revert to a huddle, shaking, unconfident mess at every base camp and cutscene.
 
"Lara, where are you?! We want to go home!"

"So do I, but first I have to collect 10 Infada Stones to boost my XP so I can upgrade my tank top! I've already found 2!"

But despite killing waves of enemies or going off on a carefree jaunt through a side tomb and collecting stuff, she'll revert to a huddle, shaking, unconfident mess at every base camp and cutscene.

haha holy shit Ragnarok, you're killing it in this topic lol

Your quote reminded me of that Penny Arcade Star Fox Adventure comic where the dude is telling Fox all the shit he needs to collect hahaha

I actually do expect that as the game progresses you'll be given an increased range of freedom of the areas you can explore and when, but without compelling mechanics anchoring it it's pretty useless

I am so crossing my fingers for some hope :(
 
haha holy shit Ragnarok, you're killing it in this topic lol

Your quote reminded me of that Penny Arcade Star Fox Adventure comic where the dude is telling Fox all the shit he needs to collect hahaha

I actually do expect that as the game progresses you'll be given an increased range of freedom of the areas you can explore and when, but without compelling mechanics anchoring it it's pretty useless

I am so crossing my fingers for some hope :(

That's what I was thinking of when I wrote it. lol. Pretty sure it was vgcats, though.

Well, they finally showed video of tombs, though about 1/8th of the video actually contained any tomb content, and even when they showed the side tomb they skipped passed it to the prize you get for completing it, which was... A SPOILER MAP SHOWING YOU WHERE COLLECTIBLES ARE!

VJ8tl.jpg


1/5 CAMPS
0/7 DOCUMENTS
0/6 RELICS
0/10 ILLUMINATION (this is a sidequest where you have to put fire in buddah statues)
0/5 EGG POACHER
0/15 GPS CACHES
1/2 TOMBS RAIDED

The previous area had 2/5 LATTERNS, plus every area seems to have food and stuff you can find for XP and scavenger parts for item upgrades. Is Rare making this game?
 
Well, they finally showed video of tombs, though about 1/8th of the video actually contained any tomb content, and even when they showed the side tomb they skipped passed it to the prize you get for completing it, which was... A SPOILER MAP SHOWING YOU WHERE COLLECTIBLES ARE!

VJ8tl.jpg
Fuck you, CD.
 
That's what I was thinking of when I wrote it. lol. Pretty sure it was vgcats, though.

Well, they finally showed video of tombs, though about 1/8th of the video actually contained any tomb content, and even when they showed the side tomb they skipped passed it to the prize you get for completing it, which was... A SPOILER MAP SHOWING YOU WHERE COLLECTIBLES ARE!

VJ8tl.jpg


1/5 CAMPS
0/7 DOCUMENTS
0/6 RELICS
0/10 ILLUMINATION (this is a sidequest where you have to put fire in buddah statues)
0/5 EGG POACHER
0/15 GPS CACHES
1/2 TOMBS RAIDED

The previous area had 2/5 LATTERNS, plus every area seems to have food and stuff you can find for XP and scavenger parts for item upgrades. Is Rare making this game?

Hahahahaha amazing. I really am so glad they replaced the hold-your-breath-and-leap platforming, complex multilevel puzzles, trap rooms and long extended bits of tomb exploring that take hours with collectathoning, 70% more combat, hold-your-hand-and-leap platforming and little six minute optional challenge tombs.

I really am at the point where I have no idea what the people anticipating this game even see in it. There was a time we played videogames and they rewarded skill and discovery; now we play wannabe movies with 18 hour tutorials and no tension set pieces because dying is too fearful for the modern public. Thank you developers >:(

Also, no, I was not thinking of VGCats (because I would scrub my brain with corrosive acid if I had any remnants of that in my memory, ugh), but this comic strip right here from Penny-Arcade:

CLICK TO SEE THE TRUTH ABOUT STAR FOX ADVENTURES
 
Hahahahaha amazing. I really am so glad they replaced the hold-your-breath-and-leap platforming, complex multilevel puzzles, trap rooms and long extended bits of tomb exploring that take hours with collectathoning, 70% more combat, hold-your-hand-and-leap platforming and little six minute optional challenge tombs.

I really am at the point where I have no idea what the people anticipating this game even see in it.

TnA. TnA. Oh and Batman Arkham 3.
 
I'd attribute the hubs and instinct vision to Batman rather than Uncharted.

Oh I see what you mean. I'm just really sad that at this point I'm probably looking at least 5~6 years before I even get the possibility of a Tomb Raider game that is actually anything like Tomb Raider :(
 
I really am at the point where I have no idea what the people anticipating this game even see in it. There was a time we played videogames and they rewarded skill and discovery; now we play wannabe movies with 18 hour tutorials and no tension set pieces because dying is too fearful for the modern public. Thank you developers >:(

Back at the beginning I thought the game would be a few setpiece linear sequences connecting big classic Tomb Raider tombs with lots of puzzles and exploration. I was fine with that -- the game has always had little fairly straightforward bits between the tombs. I just figured they were going to give those sections the Uncharted treatment but retain the classic Tomb Raider gameplay you described.

Instead it seems they went Full Uncharted. Games should really never go Full Uncharted if you ask me.
 
It's not far-fetched. The Arkham games were in my mind when I was watching the videos and the Zelda games. Like how the hubs grow in size as your arsenal grows, that's Zelda to me. That's one of the main reasons I'm into this.

I don't care about it being easy. The last time I was seriously challenged in a game I ended up selling it back.
 
Back at the beginning I thought the game would be a few setpiece linear sequences connecting big classic Tomb Raider tombs with lots of puzzles and exploration. I was fine with that -- the game has always had little fairly straightforward bits between the tombs. I just figured they were going to give those sections the Uncharted treatment but retain the classic Tomb Raider gameplay you described.

Instead it seems they went Full Uncharted. Games should really never go Full Uncharted if you ask me.

I mean I would totally not care and maybe even try it at full price if it was a new franchise. I don't mind Uncharted, I like the combat enough to play the new iterations and they're really beautiful, but they're really flawed and they are flawed for all the reasons that raise red alarms when you're trying to make a new Tomb Raider game.

It's sad because at this point, if the game continues to look and play as it has in all the previews, demos and gameplay trailers, I am actually going to have to hope the game fails hard. Because if it doesn't, that means whatever chance I had of EVER seeing a real Tomb Raider game is likely gone forever

Ninjimbo said:
I don't care about it being easy. The last time I was seriously challenged in a game I ended up selling it back.

It's fine if a game is easy, but damn just don't make that hand holdy nonsense game Tomb Raider. Call it SURVIVOR GIRL: I JUST FELL DOWN A HOLE AND HAVE TO DO A QTE TO REMOVE A PIECE OF WOOD FROM MY SIDE or something, but don't taint a once classic franchise with something that doesn't even share any resemblance to the previous incarnations.

Also, once again it saddens me that a game challenging a person is not a call to action for a gamer; was also a time when people felt that meant they simply needed to try harder and improve their skills and then, when they conquered what was in front of them, felt a sense of tangible reward far outstripping anything in these modern play-itself games. I guess this too has passed :(
 
Hahahahaha amazing. I really am so glad they replaced the hold-your-breath-and-leap platforming, complex multilevel puzzles, trap rooms and long extended bits of tomb exploring that take hours with collectathoning, 70% more combat, hold-your-hand-and-leap platforming and little six minute optional challenge tombs.

I really am at the point where I have no idea what the people anticipating this game even see in it. There was a time we played videogames and they rewarded skill and discovery; now we play wannabe movies with 18 hour tutorials and no tension set pieces because dying is too fearful for the modern public. Thank you developers >:(

Also, no, I was not thinking of VGCats (because I would scrub my brain with corrosive acid if I had any remnants of that in my memory, ugh), but this comic strip right here from Penny-Arcade:

CLICK TO SEE THE TRUTH ABOUT STAR FOX ADVENTURES

3AJkC.jpg
 
Haha beautiful. Saving that one in my image macros


Anyway, on topic, I just hope I am wrong about this game. I want to be wrong about this game more than anything on Earth, because Tomb Raider has a special place in my heart and always has even when the series went down its bad road. :(
 
Also, once again it saddens me that a game challenging a person is not a call to action for a gamer; was also a time when people felt that meant they simply needed to try harder and improve their skills and then, when they conquered what was in front of them, felt a sense of tangible reward far outstripping anything in these modern play-itself games. I guess this too has passed :(
Its not that I'm not looking for a challenge in my videogames. Hell, if that was true, I would've stopped playing Virtua Fighter years ago. I'm usually fighting top-tier players on the weekends and those fights are as stressful and as rewarding as they come when you finally win. Games like VF or SF4 give me the challenge I seek in systems I'm already familiar with. I play these games so much that I don't really want to be stressed when I make time to play a single player story game.

I'll be honest. I've never played the original TR games mostly because I never owned a PS1. TR Legend is the first TR game I played and I liked how laid back it was. It was like Prince of Persia except with more interesting puzzles and environments. Frankly, I find jungles and snowy mountain temples more interesting than Persian castles. I also really liked Lara as a character. She was charming. The subsequent games like Underworld and Anniversary were very chill too. They weren't long and I was never lost on puzzles. They were short and sweet and nothing too deep. They were perfect for what I was looking for.

This new game to me, it's just Legend with a lot more presentational polish. If the overworld traversal is anything like Zelda or the Arkham games, I'll be in heaven. It may not be old-school TR, but this is a world I don't mind playing around in for a dozen hours. That's really all I want.

For reference: that game I was challenged by that I sold back, it was Dark Souls. I don't want to play anything like that ever again.
 
Its not that I'm not looking for a challenge in my videogames. Hell, if that was true, I would've stopped playing Virtua Fighter years ago. I'm usually fighting top-tier players on the weekends and those fights are as stressful and as rewarding as they come when you finally win. Games like VF or SF4 give me the challenge I seek in systems I'm already familiar with. I play these games so much that I don't really want to be stressed when I make time to play a single player story game.

I'll be honest. I've never played the original TR games mostly because I never owned a PS1. TR Legend is the first TR game I played and I liked how laid back it was. It was like Prince of Persia except with more interesting puzzles and environments. Frankly, I find jungles and snowy mountain temples more interesting than Persian castles. I also really liked Lara as a character. She was charming. The subsequent games like Underworld and Anniversary were very chill too. They weren't long and I was never lost on puzzles. They were short and sweet and nothing too deep. They were perfect for what I was looking for.

This new game to me, it's just Legend with a lot more presentational polish. If the overworld traversal is anything like Zelda or the Arkham games, I'll be in heaven. It may not be old-school TR, but this is a world I don't mind playing around in for a dozen hours. That's really all I want.

For reference: that game I was challenged by that I sold back, it was Dark Souls. I don't want to play anything like that ever again.

I understand your point, but don't understand how you arrived at it. It's true Legend was laid back compared to the original games (and the original games were never masochistic or anything), but this new Tomb Raider still is nothing like Legend. Platforming has been streamlined and retarded beyond recognition to the franchise; there is more combat in the gameplay videos we've seen so far than in any ENTIRE other Tomb Raider game. And Legend had plenty of puzzles and tomb exploration, although they were certainly unfocused and among the weaker offerings in the series.

Tomb Raider really shares no resemblance to anything in the series to date, not even tangentially... but I guess we have to agree to disagree :(
 
I felt the platforming in Legend was essentially a line all the time. It wasn't hard to see where you had to go and there was almost no danger to any of the jumps. Most of what I remember from Legend was it funneling you through these crypts, and then stopping in a puzzle room where you had to sit back and analyze the environment. The exploration present was essentially restricted to whatever was in front of you. Backtracking served little purpose since the game was so scripted.

I might be misremembering. It's been a few years since I last played it. It doesn't really matter though. I'm sorry I made you sad. :(
 
I felt the platforming in Legend was essentially a line all the time. It wasn't hard to see where you had to go and there was almost no danger to any of the jumps. Most of what I remember from Legend was it funneling you through these crypts, and then stopping in a puzzle room where you had to sit back and analyze the environment. The exploration present was essentially restricted to whatever was in front of you. Backtracking served little purpose since the game was so scripted.

I might be misremembering. It's been a few years since I last played it. It doesn't really matter though. I'm sorry I made you sad. :(

Oh certainly large portions of the game are as described, but it wasn't necessarily because the platforming mechanics themselves were bad... it was because the level design utilizing these mechanics were really simplified beyond recognition. Unless I'm really forgetting the game, you could still miss jumps, you didn't autograb ledges. The problem was the platforming portions weren't designed well, so there was no challenge to utilizing the mechanics. Back in the day with the Tomb Raider games, there were genuinely times it was sort of hard to know whether you could make a jump or if you needed to maybe open up a path to get to some ledge. The games would always have tantalizing ledges which seemed MAYBE in reach, but when you tried for them (and held your breath as you did), you'd be met with the timeless

AHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

*crack*

It was so satisfying, seriously, because the games were always prompting you to explore and maybe take some chances. And the hidden relics in the Tomb Raider games? These things were frequently well hidden, and many of them required some extremely ace platforming to reach. That's in contrast to the "see lanterns lying haphazardly around the floor, pick 'em up" philosophy of Tomb Raider SquareEnix.
 
It's fine if a game is easy, but damn just don't make that hand holdy nonsense game Tomb Raider. Call it SURVIVOR GIRL: I JUST FELL DOWN A HOLE AND HAVE TO DO A QTE TO REMOVE A PIECE OF WOOD FROM MY SIDE or something, but don't taint a once classic franchise with something that doesn't even share any resemblance to the previous incarnations.

Also, once again it saddens me that a game challenging a person is not a call to action for a gamer; was also a time when people felt that meant they simply needed to try harder and improve their skills and then, when they conquered what was in front of them, felt a sense of tangible reward far outstripping anything in these modern play-itself games. I guess this too has passed :(

Hot damn, gotta agree with this. If this Tomb Raider ends up being another modern "plays itself" interactive movie, then like you, I almost hope it bombs so that perhaps another dev will take up the torch and try something else. Seems selfish but it's a franchise I love so be it.

For reference: that game I was challenged by that I sold back, it was Dark Souls. I don't want to play anything like that ever again.

Haha, funny you should mention that game. I'm getting so tired of handholdy games that I'm considering picking up the souls games over the winter. I want something that'll reward me for playing well and punish me for being a dumb-ass and I hear these games deliver.
 
Haha, funny you should mention that game. I'm getting so tired of handholdy games that I'm considering picking up the souls games over the winter. I want something that'll reward me for playing well and punish me for being a dumb-ass and I hear these games deliver.
It's definitely everything everybody says it is. I haven't played a game that hard and that intense in a very long time. I played about ten hours and couldn't handle it. Only time a game has ever broken me.

If you do play it, DO NOT start as a Thief. That's what I did.
 
It has about a 0% chance of having the same quality of writing/story and like-able characters. And just overall production qualities since it's not an exclusive game.

i prefer to focus on gameplay. Of which Naughty Dog chose to put that further down the list.

this appears like it plays better and might be more fun than Uncharted (at least 2 and 3 anyway)

Need to play to see for myself though.
 
It's definitely everything everybody says it is. I haven't played a game that hard and that intense in a very long time. I played about ten hours and couldn't handle it. Only time a game has ever broken me.

If you do play it, DO NOT start as a Thief. That's what I did.

Thanks for the tip; never liked playing the thief role anyway so it's all good.
 
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