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[Zombie James]

Jesus. How many copies will it have to sell to break even?

Assuming it's $80 million flat at it'll go for $60 per game...

1,333,333 units for all three, or 444,444 units per game.

 

[Ark-AMN]

Isn't he also saying Too Human can be defined as the perfect entertainment experience?

I wen't over the quote again to be sure, and I guess you could come away with that impression. Though I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt and say that Dyack was being more hopeful than complacent. He clearly would like Too Human to be what you said, but whether it is, well, thats for the jury (the gamers) to decide, and I know he knows that.

Oh, and in case people skip through the thread, and think Dyack actually said those things:

EGM actually are the ones who said those things, neither statement is quoted to anyone.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Assuming it's $80 million flat at it'll go for $60 per game...

1,333,333 units for all three, or 444,444 units per game.

They don't get to keep all $60 of that. I have no idea how the breakdown goes, though. There's also marketing, retail and other crap to pay for.

 

[koam]

They don't get to keep all $60 of that. I have no idea how the breakdown goes, though. There's also marketing, retail and other crap to pay for.

doesn't that count as the budget?

 

[Zombie James]

They don't get to keep all $60 of that. I have no idea how the breakdown goes, though. There's also marketing, retail and other crap to pay for.

Well, i'd assume the $80 million would include marketing and publishing costs. The only thing i didn't take into account would be retailer price inflation. But yea, i'd figure it'd be a little more than 500,000 units per game to break even taking all things into account.

 

[Gigglepoo]

doesn't that count as the budget?

I wouldn't think they would have that all figured out at this point, so far from release. Who knows, though?

 

[rastex]

As long as the jump button is mapped to the A button there's no way the control is revolutionary. For visceral action there should be absolute minimal time between jumping and being able to execute a melee attack. Moving your thumb from the analog to the face and back again is a very long and cumbersome operation. The solution of course is to put the jump button on the right or left bumper as it's very easy to switch from trigger to bumper and you still have the left trigger for ranged combat in that 30 ms switch.

 

[Cheerilee]

http://www.planetgamecube.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=2000

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else, because Nintendo will give you everything you need in order to make the best games.

Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.

 

[Mrbob]

80 million budget for Too Human?

Please.

 

[Kleegamefan]

They don't get to keep all $60 of that. I have no idea how the breakdown goes, though. There's also marketing, retail and other crap to pay for.

Sonycowboy did the breakdown and the publisher/developer gets to keep just under $30 USD...so every 1M copies sold is slightly under $30M revenue.....

 

[drohne]

good lord. dyack liked what his middle-school english teacher told him about shakespeare enough to repeat it in multiple interviews over the course of several years. exactly who is this man trying to impress? if game journos glibly pass this bosh on, maybe it's working.

 

[Hayami]

Funny, this is the same control scheme as Jet Li's "Rise to Honor."

 

[thetrin]

Oh, and in case people skip through the thread, and think Dyack actually said those things:

Yeah....that's my fault. I misquoted the article. Sorry about that. :|

 

[sprsk]

edited title so people wouldnt be confused about tye dyak quote

 

[thetrin]

edited title so people wouldnt be confused about tye dyak quote

Pffft, hahah, good job sp0rsk.

 

[Operations]

http://www.planetgamecube.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=2000

Lord :lol That's even a better find than the ones Boards of Canada and I digged in the other thread.

 

[KingJ2002]

the control scheme seems very offense oriented... what about defense?

a dodge button?

a block button?

 

[thetrin]

the control scheme seems very offense oriented... what about defense?

a dodge button?

a block button?

Pssh, who needs dodging and blocking? Not Baldur.

 

[Magicpaint]

edited title so people wouldnt be confused about tye dyak quote

Ha ha ha :lol

 

[monkeyrun]

Having worked with them, I'd think he knows a little bit more about the situation than you do.

Having seen what they did to the MGS remake, I think it's save to say that Nintendo asked them to stick with shorter smaller budget games ...

 

[MrSardonic]

This is the quote that is closest to the crap EGM came up with:

"I think we'll hopefully take the gamer places that they've never been before. If we want to take entertainment to the next level, then we have to provide the perfect entertainment experience, and that's what defines Too Human above anything else."

oh no, that's even worse

And he's being humble there. He doesn't say "We HAVE created the perfect entertainment experience", he said "We have to PROVIDE..." Stupid EGM.

People usually read an entire sentence...and if you do, you can clearly see that he says that a perfect entertainment experience is "what defines Too Human"...i.e "we have created the perfect entertainment experience". I thought it was pretty straightforward

Either way, it's a far fucking cry from "This game just might change the world."

But wouldn't a perfect entertainment experience change the world?

http://www.planetgamecube.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=2000

:lol nice find

 

[Mike Works]

Originally Posted by Denis Dyack in 2002

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else, because Nintendo will give you everything you need in order to make the best games.

Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.

Originally Posted by Denis Dyack in 2002

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else, because Nintendo will give you everything you need in order to make the best games.

Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.

Originally Posted by Denis Dyack in 2002

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else, because Nintendo will give you everything you need in order to make the best games.

Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.

Originally Posted by Denis Dyack in 2002

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else, because Nintendo will give you everything you need in order to make the best games.

Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.

Originally Posted by Denis Dyack in 2002

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else, because Nintendo will give you everything you need in order to make the best games.

Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.

Originally Posted by Denis Dyack in 2002

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else, because Nintendo will give you everything you need in order to make the best games.

Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.

Originally Posted by Denis Dyack in 2002

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else, because Nintendo will give you everything you need in order to make the best games.

Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.

Originally Posted by Denis Dyack in 2002

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else, because Nintendo will give you everything you need in order to make the best games.

Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.

Originally Posted by Denis Dyack in 2002

"It’s the same sort of Shakespearean analogy, where Shakespeare would write dirty jokes for people in the front rows, cerebral metaphors for the aristocracy in the balconies."

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

Nintendo games are better than than anything else. Nintendo is awesome and we could never imagine working for Sony or MS.


(just in case any of you guys still felt like defending his words)

 

[Smiles and Cries]

:lol :lol :lol thanks Mike

 

[Rocked]

:lol Poor Denis.

 

[Wollan]

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Deg]

Denis Dyack is an asshat. He was gloating how MGS:TTS would boast every single possible graphic technique the cube could handle and when it came out, it looked like a turb with very few shadows. The game was still good but good have been better.

He also promissed the world with Eternal Darkness and the game was a borefest. I'll never forgive IGN for making me buy it with that stupid 9.6 rating they gave it just because denis was in bed with them.

Silicon Knights games are average at best and i'm being generous.

p.s the control scheme of ED was nothing special, it was different, yeah but it didn't enhance the game in the slightest and made it repetitive more than anything.

I agree with you. Although i think he is fine as a person(its his job like Peter Moore, and Reggie). While i am not a big MGS fan i dont think people like talking about TTS much.

 

[Solid]

Whats so funny? Things change. If you're gonna hate him at least do so with something to back it up, dont quote 4 year old interviews and laugh.

 

[Mike Works]

Whats so funny? Things change. If you're gonna hate him at least do so with something to back it up, dont quote 4 year old interviews and laugh.

Did you by any chance vote for Bush in 2004?

 

[SantaC]

Did you by any chance vote for Bush in 2004?

the guy is euro

 

[Tellaerin]

good lord. dyack liked what his middle-school english teacher told him about shakespeare enough to repeat it in multiple interviews over the course of several years. exactly who is this man trying to impress? if game journos glibly pass this bosh on, maybe it's working.

It's easy to take cheap shots at Dyack (and heaven knows he sets himself up for it), but his goals for Too Human seem pretty noble to me. The man's consciously trying to create a game that works on multiple levels, something that's satisfying purely as an action/adventure, but is also thought-provoking for players with a more contemplative bent.

I've noticed that in general, Japanese developers are more likely to create console games with some overarcing message than their Western counterparts. Here in the West, I get the impression that most people feel the narratives in console games should be pure escapism, and anyone striving to create something deeper is hopelessly pretentious. (Western PC developers seem to have a lot more leeway in that department.) I think David Jaffe managed to sidestep that stigma partially because he comes across as an ordinary, likeable guy in interviews, and partially because God of War managed to present its messages without beating players over the head. I'm hoping Dyack pulls off something similar with Too Human, and that we'll see more console devs in the West follow in their footsteps.

 

[DSExpress]

eh all i know is...this is one of the few XBox 360 games im looking forward to playing at e3...i dont have a 360 yet, but if its anything like Eternal Darkness with atmosphere, storyline, and music, I am buying a 360 for this game.

 

[Guns N' Poops]

EAD taught us how to do storylines.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Rocked]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

"Our Princess is in another castle!"

 

[Yoboman]

Perhaps it's the underlying bias but it takes alot to get hype out of me for an Xbox game.. This one does it for me though, I can't wait

 

[Cheerilee]

(just in case any of you guys still felt like defending his words)

Actually, I paraphrased some of those a bit. I was just off looking for a quote (it was the one where Denis said that their differing philosophies was the reason SK and Nintendo were tight, but I can't find it), and I saw the matching Shakespeare one and felt I had to post it. The other stuff was an afterthought.

For more accuarcy...

...That’s, in some regard, where EAD and Nintendo in general have contributed immensely. There are so many areas. For me to give you sort of an exact (list of) what they’ve helped, it would be too much. I can make broad, sweeping generalizations everywhere. Storyline, graphics, everything. You name it, they’ve helped us.

But at the end of the day, this is just a reinforcement of “The Nintendo Difference”, where if the games aren’t as good as they can be, we’ll make them better.

PGC: Has there ever been any time where you’ve reconsidered going back to a Sony (or Microsoft) platform?

DD: No. I know that our experience has been nothing but positive, and we really value working with Nintendo. Nintendo has been a strong supporter of Silicon Knights, we get along great with everyone and we get tremendous support and we feel (like) part of the family. Silicon Knights has no intention whatsoever of ever making a game for any other platform besides Nintendo.

I really don't mean to make fun of Denis. He's always seemed like a nice guy. Very genuine and upfront. My main discontent with SK's departure is that Nintendo's "gameplay first, storyline never" attitude has been around forever. Luigi's Mansion wasn't exactly epic. Nintendo still expects third parties like Capcom to deliver all the mature content. Their pickup of Retro is working out just fine. And Shiggy (more like Aonuma) even breaks out of the Nintendo mold every now and then with Zelda (which isn't even cel-shaded anymore). So what's changed?

If Denis says "Nintendo changed, they're not cool anymore", then I don't feel like we're getting the whole story. Whatever the truth is, I'd like to hear it. Has Nintendo's upper management become a bunch of jerks? Was SK dissappointed with the GameCube's overall performance? Did they pre-judge the Rev as a failure based on it's spec rumors? Does SK really like HD? Did they just want an $80 million dollar budget and knew Nintendo would never go for that? I'm certain there are many more valid reasons. But when they pull a 180 and leave with just a question mark, then I have to wonder if they ever really were who I thought they were.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Did they just want an $80 million dollar budget and knew Nintendo would never go for that?

That's probably your answer. Nintendo funded 2 games for them and neither sold well. They aren't going to then put alot of money behind another game for them to make. It doesn't sound like Nintendo changed. Don't alot of people think that the reason they let RARE go is because they weren't putting up sales like they once did? Nintendo's just not going to continue funding high budget tiles that don't sell.

 

[Yoboman]

:lol Poor Denis.

We all wake up sometime

 

[MrSardonic]

We all wake up sometime

:lol

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I really don't have any problem with SK leaving Nintendo. For the best as far as I am concerned.

I was overall pretty dissapointed with the GC support, and I think it became pretty obvious toward the end that they didnt really share the same vision when it came to game design. Not saying either one is right or wrong, just that they are different.

Screw the haters, I am looking forward to the game even if it is overhyped.

Spoiler

And I am glad to hear that those were not actual dyack quotes. Stupid EGM

 

[AdmiralViscen]

I hope Dyack comes in to tell us why ED is Shakespeare.

Whats so funny? Things change. If you're gonna hate him at least do so with something to back it up, dont quote 4 year old interviews and laugh.

Not everything changes! Shakespeare, baby!

Spoiler

Looking at his 4 year old hyping of games we have played, and comparing it to his hyping of games we haven't played, counts as 'something to back up' our lack of faith in his current project.

It's easy to take cheap shots at Dyack (and heaven knows he sets himself up for it), but his goals for Too Human seem pretty noble to me. The man's consciously trying to create a game that works on multiple levels, something that's satisfying purely as an action/adventure, but is also thought-provoking for players with a more contemplative bent.

Yea, he said the same shit in 2002. I'll stop taking cheap shots when he actually accomplishes what he's talking about. Maybe in 2009?

 

[Geoff9920]

Wow, I've never seen so much hate for one developer before. Rather sad actually.

 

[GitarooMan]

Wow, I've never seen so much hate for one developer before. Rather sad actually.

See Rare, conveniently another company that used to work with Nintendo

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Wow, I've never seen so much hate for one developer before. Rather sad actually.

I'd explain why this happens but they'd probably ban me again. Though it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's actually going on around here.

 

[Geoff9920]

See Rare, conveniently another company that used to work with Nintendo

Ahh, I wasn't lurking too many forums when that happened...

So this is just the usual dev left nintendo and now they suck backlash? Even though many considered SK an asset to nintendo before they left.

Edit: No biggie though, too many agendas around here.

 

[drohne]

i'm just irritated by dyack's unspeakably vulgar notion of how shakespeare worked -- as if he was pynchon or barth or somebody. "i think i'm losing the plebes here; better give hamlet a sex gag or two. i'll make it up with some CEREBRAL METAPHORS later." ribald wit and metaphor are both places that shakespeare's characters go naturally...there's no divide there, let alone the sort of pandering dyack imagines. and shakespeare's (continuing) popularity across classes and cultures can't be explained so crudely. i recall that dyack once said that kojima was like socrates while miyamoto was like aristotle. i think it's reasonable to assume that he hasn't read shakespeare either.

also he's a dirty plagiarist.

edit: probably this sounds a little extreme, and i doubt i'd care if he'd only said it once. people say dumb things. but to repeat it verbatim in however many interviews for years...this pompous gasbag needs puncturing.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Um.. people have been bitching about ED and MGS:TTS since the games released. If the "SK hate because Nfans can't stand them leaving" theory were true, then these games would've gotten tons of love right from the start (from those same Nfans needing to pimp the library of their system).

 

[Unison]

People thought Rare was a big joke before they left Nintendo too, as I recall...

 

[GitarooMan]

Um.. people have been bitching about ED and MGS:TTS since the games released.

Yeah, but people bitch about every game here, that's not surprising. It's the persistant bashing of SK well beyond other developers who have put out much worse games that is telling I think. The move of SK from Nintendo to MS is behind some of the aggressive hatred, if you think things would be the same here is Too Human was being made for Rev, you're kidding yourself. I'm not saying people don't have legitimate issues with the company, but there are plenty of others who simply won't even let this game get off the ground w/o bashing it because of their obvious agendas

 

[SnakeXs]

People thought Rare was a big joke before they left Nintendo too, as I recall...

I recall people calling Nintendo a joke for letting go of "one of the best developers ever", back then.

Teehee.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

I recall people calling Nintendo a joke for letting go of "one of the best developers ever", back then.

Teehee.

Well it was a reasonable concern. Rare did give the N64 some of its best sellers, and I fully understand why people would be pissed off by the purchase.