How does the prosecutor still have a job? He seemed like a dick in this film so I looked him up and he's a total nutjob.
Trailer for Netflix doc "Amanda Knox"
- Thread starter Dalek
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Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, he comes off as a major prick.
I love how Netflix is creating all of these movies now. I haven't seen Beast of No Nation yet, but The Little Prince and Audrie & Daisy were both excellent. Only ARQ was pretty forgettable. I'll definitely watch this one as well. Who would have thought that Netflix would be at the forefront of producing great television shows and movies just a few years ago?
not psycho
Member
That isn't what happened. You can read about it from the Italian judge who let her go:
http://hellmannreport.wordpress.com/contents/
Basically, the police were going after Lumumba from the start. The interrogation was not filmed and no attorney was present, violations that made it inadmissable at trial. Knox didn't understand the language well and was told she was confused in her memories. It lasted through day and night, and finally at 1:45 AM they were able to get her to mention Lumumba.
But what did she actually say?
"However, it was under this pressure and after many hours of confusion that my mind came up with these answers. In my mind I saw Patrick in flashes of blurred images."
"But the truth is, I am unsure about the truth and here's why"
"Why did I think of Patrick?"
These are not from after the fact, it's what she said that day. Despite the illegal interrogation intended to get her to say what they wanted, she still maintained she wasn't sure.
It's actually a very clear situation. Rudy Guede had been arrested only days before murdering Meredith Kercher for another, separate incident of breaking and entering armed with a knife. He had previously broken in other places through elevated windows. His bloody fingerprints were at the scene, and his skin cells were inside the victim's body. He fled the country. At first he said Knox wasn't there (only changing his story after learning the suspicion of her). It is undisputed that he committed the crime and there is no reason to make up bizarre rituals involving others.
Your police are a joke. Watch the documentary. Absolutely horrible, intimidating, lying, sexist, don't follow procedure in keeping a crime scene uncontaminated, and imprisonned people with absolutely no viable evidence, just circumstantial bullshit.
They were rightfully released given a lack of any objective evidence. Personal feelings are irrelevant.
THAT'S what you got from reading the facts of the case? I suppose you also learned about her mastery of witchcraft.
Why are you mentioning (underlined and everything) his race?
phazedplasma
Member
Good doc, crazy what happened to her. Also fuck that journalist, i get the feeling he only did this doc for his own fame.
I guess to underline that the authorities' racial bias isn't exclusive to America
The prosecutor is a real piece of shit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini
On a previous case, he claimed a government conspiracy of 20 individuals for a death that was later ruled a suicide. He was also charged in having ordered illegal wiretaps of police officers and journalists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini
On a previous case, he claimed a government conspiracy of 20 individuals for a death that was later ruled a suicide. He was also charged in having ordered illegal wiretaps of police officers and journalists.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Pretty good documentary. Must be terrifying to be in a foreign country convicted of a murder you didn't commit.
What are you talking about? All evidence suggests the guy did it. Where's the evidence of racial bias?
Yeah the prosecutor and journalists are both pieces of shit I find. Also I believe they both innocent for sure.
There's no evidence whatsoever. How was there no trace of Amanda in Meredith room when they were living in the same house? Unless there was but they never showed that in the documentary.
Also the prosecutor thought he was like Sherlock Holmes so I could see how he has confirmation bias or whatever it is called and just thinks whatever his initial thought is correct and will lead the investigation down that path.
He thought it was for sure a fake break in, a woman did it, etc., and cause Amanda was acting weird. I would hate to be prosecuted just because I did not act a way you thought I should act.
Yeah she supposedly didn't act well at the station and did a cart wheel. It's strange but maybe that's how she is coping. Doesn't make her guilty of murder.
holygeesus
Banned
While I agree with you, Meredith and her family do tend to be forgotten in this case (although you could argue it is deliberate on their part - who can blame them for trying to move on with their lives?) Knox and Sollecito are also victims here too - 4 years in prison, for something you didn't do, is no joke.
And yes, Pisa is a bell-end, but he is a tabloid reporter, what did you expect?
I wish at the end when they said Nico Pisa - is still a tabloid reporter instead of saying he is still a journalist.
I'm glad she is out.
The skype interview with Rudy is all you need. It's amazing reading through these threads and how the people of Europe still seem to hate her... calling Americans nationalists and biased. How can you come to that conclusion from reading the evidence? There is literally nothing linking her or her bf to the crime. This guy Rudy has a rap sheet of B&E with a knife and violence. He admits to being there, says he went to the bathroom, saw a shadowy figure who ran after seeing him, and then Meredith collapses in his arms with blood pouring from her throat... he then flees the country.
On top of that they go ahead and leak her private diaries, which include information damning themselves of concocting a story that she had possibly contracted HIV. This is one of the more clear cut cases in these falsely accused situations I've read. Bizarre what the media frenzy did to her image.
On top of that they go ahead and leak her private diaries, which include information damning themselves of concocting a story that she had possibly contracted HIV. This is one of the more clear cut cases in these falsely accused situations I've read. Bizarre what the media frenzy did to her image.
Deaf Spacker
Memb
I watched this yesterday, Amanda is weird but that doesn't make her guilty, the Italian police etc totally fucked up the investigation.
One thing I wasn't expecting though, was to see Meredith's foot being visible in the police video and photographs, it was a bit jarring.
One thing I wasn't expecting though, was to see Meredith's foot being visible in the police video and photographs, it was a bit jarring.
You mean the guy who fled the country immediately because he was "scared"? The guy who had been arrested for breaking and entering with a knife and had a history of B&Es? The guy who said Amanda wasn't there, but there was a shadowy figure of someone attacking her... when she fell to him for help he just fled? The guy whose DNA is littered all over the crime scene including inside the victim? The guy whose bloody finger prints were at the scene of the crime?
I have this fear that I will be falsely convicted of a crime. People have such terrible reasoning skills. I mean my God even in this thread there are people who believe that there is even a shadow of a doubt that she had anything to do with this.
It's so unbelievably embarrassing. You put a completely innocent person in jail.
It's so unbelievably embarrassing. You put a completely innocent person in jail.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I will watch with great interest. I remember at the time when it was big news thinking she's likely guilty.
I remember there being a large amount of 'america is just defending their pretty white girl who obviously did it' type sentiment. Water cooler talk at the time seemed to be 'fuck yeah she did' as well.
I'll be curious to see it all again now the world cares less.
I don't like Amanda being portrayed as such a victim. While she obviously getting pressured by the authorities, changing her story and implicating an innocent man in panic is a really, really shitty thing to do.
Her strange behavior is strange but it doesn't mean she's guilty. The kissing, cartwheels and intense outbursts of crying were weird as fuck but they don't qualify as evidence.
The prosecutor comes off like a truther with power. Dude is all about the conspiracy. Seeing an Italian person pop in this thread and convey a similar national sentiment Pretty depressing.
Worth a watch.
Her strange behavior is strange but it doesn't mean she's guilty. The kissing, cartwheels and intense outbursts of crying were weird as fuck but they don't qualify as evidence.
The prosecutor comes off like a truther with power. Dude is all about the conspiracy. Seeing an Italian person pop in this thread and convey a similar national sentiment Pretty depressing.
Worth a watch.
I was amazed at how perfect a daily mail reporter stereotype he was. Just needed some Pimms and a straw hat to set it off.
She was put in prison for something that she had nothing to do with. She is the definition of a victim
Rudy Guede's story is unbelievable to me. He did this unprovoked and has changed it anytime he has someone willing to listen.
-He first confessed to being there on the skype call before he was extradited since he fled to Germany after the murders.
- He claimed he flirted heavily with Kercher on the dance floor the night of November 1st(she was found the morning of November 2nd). She then invited him back to the house
- They partook in "heavy petting" but didn't have sex because they didn't have a condom
- He then was overtaken by stomach pains and had to rush to the bathroom due to a "bad kebab"
- he claims he was in the bathroom 10-11 minutes listening to loud music. Suddenly he heard Meredith scream loud enough to hear her over his blaring music.
- upon hearing this scream he rushes out of the bathroom, which supposedly explains why the toilet was left unflushed.
- he sees a shadowy figure running away with a knife from the scene.
- Meredith stumbles into his arms bleeding and begging for help. He grabbed fluffy towels to try to stop the bleeding.
- He claims she was trying to tell him something, but she couldn't speak because her throat was slashed so he started to write on the walls in her blood what she was saying (which btw there was no "writing" in blood on the walls, just his bloody fingerprints on one small spot)
- He says he saw her "pass" and could tell she was dead at which point he panicked, put her back in bed with all of her clothes on and in tact and left (this is crucial given the fact that she was found with her clothing torn off and the forensics indicated her clothing was shredded and torn while she was being murdered. so are we to believe the shadowy figure came back and undressed her?)
- He then claims he panicked thinking people wouldn't believe his story so he hopped the next train, which is how he ended up in germany.
So as crazy as that story sounds this is where it gets incredibly crazy.
- Rudy was confirmed to be at a nightclub until 430 AM the night she was killed by multiple witnesses. He then changes his story to say he went home, washed up then changed and went out to the club (apparently after experiencing the heartbreaking death of his new interest)
- He didn't "flee" until the night of November 2nd.
- In his original statement he said he was certain that Knox wasn't there. He stopped short of saying Sollecito was the attacker, but he didn't deny it either.
-In a later story, he then claims he was "101% sure" that Amanda was there.
- He Id'd her in 2 ways. 1- He "heard her voice" yelling while meredith was screaming. Somehow he knew her voice despite meeting her only once, and being able to distinguish her voice over his blaring headphones. And 2- he saw the silhouette of her as she ran away.
- He claimed she wasn't alone, but she was already running off, when one of the shadowy figures yelled "It's the culprit! He's Black! He's Guilty!"
There's a lot more overwhelming evidence tying him to the scene of the crime, that matches perfectly with his rap sheet, including a B&E he had just been arrested for a few weeks earlier in which he branished an 11" knife.
There are a few "controversial" pieces of evidence that tie Amanda to the crime scene, and it is beyond flimsy at best. Her demeanor was strange, but it also wasn't outrageous, and most of it is circumstantial. To me she was acting with hubris in a sense that she knew she was innocent and she was just trying to live her life. I don't think she foresaw herself getting seriously tied into a situation like this.
-He first confessed to being there on the skype call before he was extradited since he fled to Germany after the murders.
- He claimed he flirted heavily with Kercher on the dance floor the night of November 1st(she was found the morning of November 2nd). She then invited him back to the house
- They partook in "heavy petting" but didn't have sex because they didn't have a condom
- He then was overtaken by stomach pains and had to rush to the bathroom due to a "bad kebab"
- he claims he was in the bathroom 10-11 minutes listening to loud music. Suddenly he heard Meredith scream loud enough to hear her over his blaring music.
- upon hearing this scream he rushes out of the bathroom, which supposedly explains why the toilet was left unflushed.
- he sees a shadowy figure running away with a knife from the scene.
- Meredith stumbles into his arms bleeding and begging for help. He grabbed fluffy towels to try to stop the bleeding.
- He claims she was trying to tell him something, but she couldn't speak because her throat was slashed so he started to write on the walls in her blood what she was saying (which btw there was no "writing" in blood on the walls, just his bloody fingerprints on one small spot)
- He says he saw her "pass" and could tell she was dead at which point he panicked, put her back in bed with all of her clothes on and in tact and left (this is crucial given the fact that she was found with her clothing torn off and the forensics indicated her clothing was shredded and torn while she was being murdered. so are we to believe the shadowy figure came back and undressed her?)
- He then claims he panicked thinking people wouldn't believe his story so he hopped the next train, which is how he ended up in germany.
So as crazy as that story sounds this is where it gets incredibly crazy.
- Rudy was confirmed to be at a nightclub until 430 AM the night she was killed by multiple witnesses. He then changes his story to say he went home, washed up then changed and went out to the club (apparently after experiencing the heartbreaking death of his new interest)
- He didn't "flee" until the night of November 2nd.
- In his original statement he said he was certain that Knox wasn't there. He stopped short of saying Sollecito was the attacker, but he didn't deny it either.
-In a later story, he then claims he was "101% sure" that Amanda was there.
- He Id'd her in 2 ways. 1- He "heard her voice" yelling while meredith was screaming. Somehow he knew her voice despite meeting her only once, and being able to distinguish her voice over his blaring headphones. And 2- he saw the silhouette of her as she ran away.
- He claimed she wasn't alone, but she was already running off, when one of the shadowy figures yelled "It's the culprit! He's Black! He's Guilty!"
There's a lot more overwhelming evidence tying him to the scene of the crime, that matches perfectly with his rap sheet, including a B&E he had just been arrested for a few weeks earlier in which he branished an 11" knife.
There are a few "controversial" pieces of evidence that tie Amanda to the crime scene, and it is beyond flimsy at best. Her demeanor was strange, but it also wasn't outrageous, and most of it is circumstantial. To me she was acting with hubris in a sense that she knew she was innocent and she was just trying to live her life. I don't think she foresaw herself getting seriously tied into a situation like this.
She was a victim. So was the man she lied to police about and they falsely imprisoned. That was her doing 100% no matter the pressure.
Guess I wish they would've interviewed the man she named in her confession. Would've been an interesting take.
You think you'd be able to stand up to 40+ hours of interrogation in a week in a foreign language with no lawyer? The last session ran 8 hours in the middle of the night and this is how they got her "confession".
Projecting much?
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
Rudy's lawyer comment about Americans drawing buffaloes in caves in 1309 threw me.
holygeesus
Banned
Did they ever explain why the window was smashed from the inside? That was literally the only out of place thing I can recall from memory.
Did Guede do that to try and support his intruder story? It would surely disprove his allegation that Knox was there, as she had a key anyway.
Did Guede do that to try and support his intruder story? It would surely disprove his allegation that Knox was there, as she had a key anyway.
It's pretty obvious the police were in a frenzy at the moment but I feel we deserved to hear from the man she accused. Does she have any responsibility? I guess I don't remember an apology or a more in-depth look at his exoneration and how that should've affected her case (or her).
I believe Amanda and believe she was interrogated in an unjust manner but there were numerous aspects of this documentary that were frustrating. I can also see it reinforcing the belief of American influence and the conspiratorial voices (like the person who popped in earlier in this thread).
Anyway, this could've waited a few years before coming out and I think they could've gotten interviews (Kercher's family) and found some interesting things to talk about instead of spending so much time showing us the innocence of the innocent. The case is really the least interesting thing about this story.
She was under duress, abused, interrogated in a non-native language, held beyond reasonable hours on no evidence, and physically assaulted -- that's a metric fuckton of mitigating circumstances. She's not legally responsible for shit at that point.
I watched this last night and found the documentary left me very unsatisfied. I felt just the bare construction of it was not thorough at all. Given the presented material I have no reason to think that the investigator, the prosecutor, and the journalist aren't complete pieces of shit, but life is hardly that black and white.
Where I felt the documentary came up short is:
- Give me more information about the legal system in Italy. How it differs. I don't need a long segment or anything, but a few stray remarks about this is legal or this is not. What was a breach and what was a gray area. I assume hitting a suspect while in questioning isn't legal so... but who knows based on what was told. I also wanted to know if the judge would ask if she had legal council at the time of questioning. It didn't seem like she did and seems like that would taint testimony in the eyes of the court.
- More information about the language barrier. I had no idea how fluent Amanda Knox was so I couldn't even guess if she was a completely out of her element when being interrogated.
-Wire Tapping a suspect post-crime? Is this legal? I'm sure it's not but at least state that in the documentary.
- Give me a statement or some perspective from Patrick Lumumba. Even if you can't get new comments from him, at least get something that was pre-recorded for another outlet. If we knew if they were chummy or just had a bog-standard work relationship. At least mention what his alibi was. They mention it in passing and then it's cool, on to the next thing. If it was not made public by the police, then mention that too!
- Were there repercussions or changes for the police after their crime scene contamination process was established to be a joke? Any reforms?
- I wanted more of a final thoughts moment from Amanda. What was there was shallow and weak. You don't get a lot of commentary from her about things that were happening as they unfolded in the documentary, and her perspective comparison then and now. It sounded like she wanted nothing to do with Rafaelle post-arrest but years later they were having a very joyous and celebratory conversation with each other when the Supreme Court finally exonerated them (understandably to some extent). But the take away was that they definitely seem close still and sounded like they intended to talk again soon.
Where I felt the documentary came up short is:
- Give me more information about the legal system in Italy. How it differs. I don't need a long segment or anything, but a few stray remarks about this is legal or this is not. What was a breach and what was a gray area. I assume hitting a suspect while in questioning isn't legal so... but who knows based on what was told. I also wanted to know if the judge would ask if she had legal council at the time of questioning. It didn't seem like she did and seems like that would taint testimony in the eyes of the court.
- More information about the language barrier. I had no idea how fluent Amanda Knox was so I couldn't even guess if she was a completely out of her element when being interrogated.
-Wire Tapping a suspect post-crime? Is this legal? I'm sure it's not but at least state that in the documentary.
- Give me a statement or some perspective from Patrick Lumumba. Even if you can't get new comments from him, at least get something that was pre-recorded for another outlet. If we knew if they were chummy or just had a bog-standard work relationship. At least mention what his alibi was. They mention it in passing and then it's cool, on to the next thing. If it was not made public by the police, then mention that too!
- Were there repercussions or changes for the police after their crime scene contamination process was established to be a joke? Any reforms?
- I wanted more of a final thoughts moment from Amanda. What was there was shallow and weak. You don't get a lot of commentary from her about things that were happening as they unfolded in the documentary, and her perspective comparison then and now. It sounded like she wanted nothing to do with Rafaelle post-arrest but years later they were having a very joyous and celebratory conversation with each other when the Supreme Court finally exonerated them (understandably to some extent). But the take away was that they definitely seem close still and sounded like they intended to talk again soon.
The scene where the female officer kicks in the door window epitomizes the shit show of the investigation. They couldn't use another tool or wait for a locksmith.
Even though I believe Knox and Rafealle are innocent, I was disappointed the doc didn't present evidence that supports their involvement. It wouldn't have mattered in the end though because of the shitty police work.
Even though I believe Knox and Rafealle are innocent, I was disappointed the doc didn't present evidence that supports their involvement. It wouldn't have mattered in the end though because of the shitty police work.
People give false confessions all the time, I would add, implicating themselves no less. I think it's hard to understand how intense being interrogated by police for hours on end without a lawyer is, and how they can get you to to confess to some dumb shit.
Amanda Knox was hardly the only case where this occurred.
LostCaress
Member
Yes, I felt the same. Pisa is an asshole. She is weird. Given the evidence presented by this documentary there's no way to find her guilty. The doc felt very incomplete and one-sided towards making her innocent.
I think she was attractive, but it's clear how much of a toll this whole thing took on her. She aged significantly from the stress. Regardless, I don't know how people can let something so meaningless affect their opinion of a murder.
Dreams-Visions
Member
this shit looks wild. Definitely in.
Pandora012
Member
Yeah, that one got me
Yeah, who gives a shit? The fact remains that investigators in that town are pure garbage and shouldn't still have their jobs.
Not legally, but should they have addressed it from a personal standpoint? I'm more interested in his viewpoint on the matter.
I agree it was definitely biased, but that's pretty much all the evidence they have against her. Seriously. The major reason they thought it was her was her an rafaelles bizarre behavior. To be fair they both mixed up their storylines a lot. When pressured or facing life in jail you might end up doing that though.
The tipping point for me is that rafaelles and Amanda had only a 10 minute window where this crime could've been committed. Rudy says he was only gone to the bathroom for 10 minutes. Start the clock the second he closes that door. This would imply them having knowledge Rudy was there and using him as a fall guy. It simply doesn't add up
not only they have their job, but also the prosecutor got promoted, a guy who I now know was involved in the monster of florence case, that was another poorly investigated case
ichigo kurosaki
Member
Sounds interesting.
Funny to hear all Americans defending her to death here while the general opinion in Europe (at least from the media outlets where I read about this) is just the opposite. That's the feeling I got when I read about it a few years back.
I'm convinced she's not as guilty as she's made out to be by these, just as she's not as innocent as she's being presented in this thread.
Funny to hear all Americans defending her to death here while the general opinion in Europe (at least from the media outlets where I read about this) is just the opposite. That's the feeling I got when I read about it a few years back.
I'm convinced she's not as guilty as she's made out to be by these, just as she's not as innocent as she's being presented in this thread.
You've heard from all Americans?
I'm sure smart Europeans interested in objectively evaluating information would defend her, too.
ichigo kurosaki
Member
Not meaning to offend anyone. Just saying, we tend to defend our own, so it'd be easy to be biased (both those for and against her).
Dismissing arguments from one side or another because of where they're from is bad. The arguments either stand or don't on their own merits. Don't just go "well both sides have biases, so we'll never know!" Look at the evidence and the facts and evaluate the quality of the arguments. Most people who have really studied these things outside of headlines and clickbait articles seem to conclude the case is incredibly flimsy and guilt was not proven at all. I am sure many of these people were not American, but I didn't think to check.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
My guess is she was present in the house when Rudy killed Meredith, might have even known she was being raped or killed or whatever, and her following actions were her trying to distance herself from any link to what happened.
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