Trailer for Netflix doc "Amanda Knox"

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I'd love to re-examine the case, I'm from Italy and I remember the general opinion being "she had something to do with the murder and got away with it". Not saying it was my opinion, I never followed the case in depth honestly, I just remember that there was something weird with her and Sollecito (something related to a laptop missing maybe?) and of course the Lumumba stuff. I would have to look into it and I probably will in the coming days.

I've always found ridicolous the "satanic orgy" stuff though, like in what world could this be your first reaction to what happened here. That's just dumb

I'm not here to defend my country abouth this, I don't have the intention to do it even remotely, but as the case was presented in the media in the first days/weeks, I can't fault someone not very informed to think she was definitely guilty. An user was sort of attacked in this thread before but he brought up a lot of points that were on everyone's mouth at the time and definitely shaped up how this thing was portrayed in the eyes of the general public. Knox blaming Lumumba was seen as an unfortunately too common practise of the perpetrator (or people close to him/her) blaming people of color or immigrants as a first reaction. God knows how many times it happened in big cases in this country (not just here I'd wager). Sollecito was sort of presented as the rich kid protected by a powerful family and legal team. Obviously informations about the coerced confession were scarsely available. It was a complete mess.
 
mackaveli said:
Also the prosecutor thought he was like Sherlock Holmes so I could see how he has confirmation bias or whatever it is called and just thinks whatever his initial thought is correct and will lead the investigation down that path.
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I didn't think much of it when he mentioned he was a fan, but I legit lol'd the first time he pulled out the pipe when they went to Sollecito's apartment.
 
Maybe Knox/Sollecito/Rudy were all there, Rudy was in Meredith's room with her, tried to have his way with her but got violent, Sollecito held the door forcefully closed to make sure she would not get out while Rudy was having his way with her (under the idea that he and Knox felt Meredith was too much of a good girl and didn't like her), but eventually Rudy murders her. Sollecito and Knox realize it, and get out of the apartment, and Rudy leaves by the room's window or whatever exit was there so as to not confront the two others in the apartment.

It would explain why Knox blamed another black guy eventually: she knows the murderer is black, but doesn't want to accuse the real one because he would risk implicating her.

It explains the questionable idea that there was an actual break-in, because there would have been none, only at best a break out. Rudy could have left by the front door, but the room's door was found locked from inside, which implies he didn't want to go back out of the room, possibly because someone was there.

Rudy would not initially implicate Knox/Sollecito, because it would risk having them coming clean with what happened and accusing him. When he feels that the investigators are closer to the truth, he starts to give an account that is closer to the truth but which exonerates him (both are present, but he didn't do anything, they did).
 
Ether_Snake said:
Maybe Knox/Sollecito/Rudy were all there, Rudy was in Meredith's room with her, tried to have his way with her but got violent, Sollecito held the door forcefully closed to make sure she would not get out while Rudy was having his way with her (under the idea that he and Knox felt Meredith was too much of a good girl and didn't like her), but eventually Rudy murders her. Sollecito and Knox realize it, and get out of the apartment, and Rudy leaves by the room's window or whatever exit was there so as to not confront the two others in the apartment.

It would explain why Knox blamed another black guy eventually: she knows the murderer is black, but doesn't want to accuse the real one because he would risk implicating her.

It explains the questionable idea that there was an actual break-in, because there would have been none, only at best a break out. Rudy could have left by the front door, but the room's door was found locked from inside, which implies he didn't want to go back out of the room, possibly because someone was there.

Rudy would not initially implicate Knox/Sollecito, because it would risk having them coming clean with what happened and accusing him. When he feels that the investigators are closer to the truth, he starts to give an account that is closer to the truth but which exonerates him (both are present, but he didn't do anything, they did).
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The problem with this theory though is the idea that Knox picked Lumumba because he was black. Not that that idea would be farfetched, but she didn't actually pick patrick, the cops kept trying to push her in that direction after seeing the text that literally translated to "see you later"
 
The investigators are an embarrassment and let down one of two parties. Either Amanda and her BF were innocent and they went through all that for nothing, or their sloppy work let them loose. In either case they did a disservice to the case.

I'd like to know if the documentary left any evidence or facts out, like Making of a Murderer did.

Ether_Snake said:
Maybe Knox/Sollecito/Rudy were all there, Rudy was in Meredith's room with her, tried to have his way with her but got violent, Sollecito held the door forcefully closed to make sure she would not get out while Rudy was having his way with her (under the idea that he and Knox felt Meredith was too much of a good girl and didn't like her), but eventually Rudy murders her. Sollecito and Knox realize it, and get out of the apartment, and Rudy leaves by the room's window or whatever exit was there so as to not confront the two others in the apartment.

It would explain why Knox blamed another black guy eventually: she knows the murderer is black, but doesn't want to accuse the real one because he would risk implicating her.

It explains the questionable idea that there was an actual break-in, because there would have been none, only at best a break out. Rudy could have left by the front door, but the room's door was found locked from inside, which implies he didn't want to go back out of the room, possibly because someone was there.

Rudy would not initially implicate Knox/Sollecito, because it would risk having them coming clean with what happened and accusing him. When he feels that the investigators are closer to the truth, he starts to give an account that is closer to the truth but which exonerates him (both are present, but he didn't do anything, they did).
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You're making the same mistake the investigators did and making up scenarios that have no grounding. There's nothing that says Knox or Sollecito were there. She blamed the other guy because she was pressed on it due to a text message that is just worded strangely. All of the Knox "evidence" wasn't evidence at all, it was behavior and personality quirks. You can't build a case on that even though the italian police did.

TerryLee81 said:
Watching it right now.

A shame that we will probably never find out what really happend.
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All evidence points to Guede and it probably was a straight forward break-in/murder.
 
30 seconds into the documentary so far, and already I don't trust her.

First they show her driving inside the cabin of a VW, and when she gets out, it's a Subaru Forester!
 
TerryLee81 said:
Watching it right now.

A shame that we will probably never find out what really happend.
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Yeah, the man with a history of B&E and possession of violent weapons who is found to have strong DNA ties to the murder weapon, the room, and the victim's body who then flees after the crime -- couldn't be him! Probably that shifty girl with absolutely no evidence pointing towards her.
 
So I watched it. The murderer hasn't been found, then?

Edit: The shit in the toiltet will never leave my brain. Rudy's first statement made sense to me, but then he changed his statement..
 
Kevtones said:
I don't like Amanda being portrayed as such a victim. While she obviously getting pressured by the authorities, changing her story and implicating an innocent man in panic is a really, really shitty thing to do.
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She was a 20 year old in a foreign country under severe, violent and possibly illegal duress. You would be surprised want you would do in that situation, it's common and an entire profession exists to study psychological behaviour under duress or interrogation.

Darksol said:
Yeah, the man with a history of B&E and possession of violent weapons who is found to have strong DNA ties to the murder weapon, the room, and the victim's body who then flees after the crime -- couldn't be him! Probably that shifty girl with absolutely no evidence pointing towards her.
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Yep. This x 100.

Kenzodielocke said:
So I watched it. The murderer hasn't been found, then?
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Ugh. Really? See above.
 
NYR said:
She was a 20 year old in a foreign country under severe, violent and possibly illegal duress. You would be surprised want you would do in that situation, it's common and an entire profession exists to study psychological behaviour under duress or interrogation.


Yep. This x 100.


Ugh. Really? See above.
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The documentary said he was released? Checking now.

Nvm. I read that wrong. Of course he did it.
 
Guility people run. Knox walked into a police station. Pretty obvious who did it.

Rudy_Guede_mugshot.png


The evidence against Rudy Guede:

Guede admitted he was in the room.

Guede's DNA was found in and on Meredith's body.

Guede's DNA along with Meredith’s blood, was found on Meredith's purse.

Guede's excrement was found in the toilet.

Guede's shoe prints, set in Meredith’s blood, were found in the bedroom and hallway.

Guede's handprint, in Meredith’s blood, was found on a pillow case in Meredith's room.

Guede had a cut on his right hand that was still visible when he was arrested.

Guede fled the country.



http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Rudy.html
 
JerkShep said:
I'd love to re-examine the case, I'm from Italy and I remember the general opinion being "she had something to do with the murder and got away with it". Not saying it was my opinion, I never followed the case in depth honestly, I just remember that there was something weird with her and Sollecito (something related to a laptop missing maybe?) and of course the Lumumba stuff. I would have to look into it and I probably will in the coming days.

I've always found ridicolous the "satanic orgy" stuff though, like in what world could this be your first reaction to what happened here. That's just dumb

I'm not here to defend my country abouth this, I don't have the intention to do it even remotely, but as the case was presented in the media in the first days/weeks, I can't fault someone not very informed to think she was definitely guilty. An user was sort of attacked in this thread before but he brought up a lot of points that were on everyone's mouth at the time and definitely shaped up how this thing was portrayed in the eyes of the general public. Knox blaming Lumumba was seen as an unfortunately too common practise of the perpetrator (or people close to him/her) blaming people of color or immigrants as a first reaction. God knows how many times it happened in big cases in this country (not just here I'd wager). Sollecito was sort of presented as the rich kid protected by a powerful family and legal team. Obviously informations about the coerced confession were scarsely available. It was a complete mess.
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What you should be ashamed of isn't really your opinion and those of your countrymen at the time, though it's not great to cast judgment when you don't know the facts... what you should be furious about is how your police and media have failed you. You rely on them to do their jobs and report things accurately and fairly, and it was a joke that got someone put in prison for three years.
 
msdstc said:
Wait his first statement made sense? No it didn't lol.
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Exactly. His story was he went to take a shit and came back and someone was over her with a knife and then he ran away. The evidence, says otherwise:

The court found that his version of events did not match the forensic evidence, and that he could not explain why one of his palm prints, stained with Kercher's blood, had been found on the pillow of the single bed
 
The detective is such a joke. He seemed more concerned with fame and gjory, and with the 'honor' of Italy. Fuck that guy.
 
NYR said:
Exactly. His story was he went to take a shit and came back and someone was over her with a knife and then he ran away. The evidence, says otherwise:

The court found that his version of events did not match the forensic evidence, and that he could not explain why one of his palm prints, stained with Kercher's blood, had been found on the pillow of the single bed
Click to expand...

He also said he fled the country that night in fear. Unfortunately for him, the girls he was trying to talk up later that night at the club- AFTER he ruthlessly murdered a girl- placed him at the night club until 430 am. He changed his story then, saying he went home washed up and hit the club... Must've slipped His mind I guess. His story of leaving her fully dressed also doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

There's also cctvfootage of him approaching the cottage then leaving the cottage and the presumable time window in which Meredith was murdered. He's a complete and total psychopath who is using the extreme bias of the prosecution to mislead them away from the fact he did this. He's conniving, his rap sheet matches exactly with the crime- broke into several houses/buildings and when caught threatened to kill and brandished an 11"inch knife. By some major coincidence he also broke into at least one of those houses using a rock to break through a second floor window... Sounds familiar doesn't it? His adoptive family had recently disowned him, he had just recently got access to the cottage and started hanging around there in the weeks leading up to the murder. He was a drug dealer well known to police as well.
 
That Italian detective has quite the imagination, I wonder how many other crazy stories he's conjured up to try and get people convicted.
 
"In 1308 this court was the first faculty of jurisprudence in Europe. In 1308 in America, they were drawing buffalos in caves."
 
IISANDERII said:
"In 1308 this court was the first faculty of jurisprudence in Europe. In 1308 in America, they were drawing buffalos in caves."
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Yeah that was condescending as fuck considering in 1308 they were convicting people of witchcraft, and still continued that 300 years later with Galileo.

Clearly this was a case of a bunch of bumbling local cops and that Pink Panther prosecutor who was a complete idiot. Italy's high court said as much lol. Also there seems to be a lot of anti-americanism thrown in.
 
If I remember correctly a majority of the public turning on Knox was due to the Italian Media sensationalizing the shit out of every bit of information they could get--and outright exaggerating or lying about other elements of the case.
 
Valkyr Junkie said:
30 seconds into the documentary so far, and already I don't trust her.

First they show her driving inside the cabin of a VW, and when she gets out, it's a Subaru Forester!
Click to expand...


That's part of the vw recall. When the diesel turbocooler reaches 118 degrees it turns into a Subaru.
 
IISANDERII said:
"In 1308 this court was the first faculty of jurisprudence in Europe. In 1308 in America, they were drawing buffalos in caves."
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the way he paused after he said that was hilarious, so indignant. actually, as tragic as it can be there are a lot of legitimately funny parts in this documentary due to some of the involved.

Hollywood Duo said:
Anyone else get a chuckle out of the Trump cameo?
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I did, it was pretty unexpected for me.
 
Struct09 said:
That Italian detective has quite the imagination, I wonder how many other crazy stories he's conjured up to try and get people convicted.
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It's worse, he was the persecutor in this case - normally the role that's supposed to sanity check police investigators against speculation and tunneling. In this case, the crazy went from the top down and the sanity checks didn't happen until the appeals court years later. It might have gone to the European courts if the second opinion forensics hadn't made such a strong case.

I was screaming at the screen when I saw the first and second responders bumbling about the crime scene contaminating everything. A professional forensics lead would have been required to DNA sample every last one of those keystone cops to disprove contamination, and even then the evidence might br unsalvageable in a functioning court.

And it's not like this happened decades ago, in 2007 best practices for crime scene sweeps were well established across Europe.

On top of that, the interrogation methods were straight out of the last century. Just ridiculously unprofessional and ineffective.
 
I didn't really like the documentary to be honest. I guess its because I remember following this case and hearing about the forced confessions and the bumbled investigation by the police and the prosecutor so I didn't really get anything new there.

It was interesting to see how badly the police fucked up that investigation. I mean, they literally kicked in the door to a crime scene and were walking all over everything. Seriously wtf was that? Its amazing that they got any convictions, let alone three. And man do the journalist and the prosecutor look like total asshats in this. I love how the journalist was all like "What am I supposed to do, actually check to see if my sources are feeding me information that isn't bullshit?" Yes, dipshit, you are supposed to do that. That is called journalism. Posting a bunch of bs rumors because a couple of sources tell you that isn't journalism. There are probably people who still think that Knox was in some satanic sex orgy and killed her roommate because of it.
 
NYR said:
Exactly. His story was he went to take a shit and came back and someone was over her with a knife and then he ran away. The evidence, says otherwise:

The court found that his version of events did not match the forensic evidence, and that he could not explain why one of his palm prints, stained with Kercher's blood, had been found on the pillow of the single bed
Click to expand...

i hate when i'm about to have sex with a girl but then i realize i have no condom so instead i decide to take a long dump with loud music at someone else's house and then she gets murdered
 
I watched the first 25 minutes of it earlier. That investigator is a fucking idiot, that's for sure. Talking about how he loves Sherlock Holmes, and then saying Amanda freaking out was related to her hearing the victim's screams? Are you insane old man? I also love how he said her and Rafaelle were being "inappropriately affectionate" when the video of them is literally just them kissing and him holding her and rubbing her shoulders to try and comfort her.

Gonna finish it when I get home. Hoping it doesn't get as infuriating as Making a Murderer.
 
Knox's story, the changes in story, and behavior are so unbelievable. I think she at the very least knows more than she's saying.
 
gogosox82 said:
I didn't really like the documentary to be honest. I guess its because I remember following this case and hearing about the forced confessions and the bumbled investigation by the police and the prosecutor so I didn't really get anything new there.

It was interesting to see how badly the police fucked up that investigation. I mean, they literally kicked in the door to a crime scene and were walking all over everything. Seriously wtf was that? Its amazing that they got any convictions, let alone three. And man do the journalist and the prosecutor look like total asshats in this. I love how the journalist was all like "What am I supposed to do, actually check to see if my sources are feeding me information that isn't bullshit?" Yes, dipshit, you are supposed to do that. That is called journalism. Posting a bunch of bs rumors because a couple of sources tell you that isn't journalism. There are probably people who still think that Knox was in some satanic sex orgy and killed her roommate because of it.
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Yeah left very unsatisfied. At least they could get more into details about what made Rudy guilty. I get that his DNA was there but they didn't speak much about that type of DNA other than the poop. I feel like they stumbled too much while trying to first show things from the prosecution side without getting anywhere but just turning things upside down.

The Steven Avery case and documentary was a lot more interesting and indepth into the proceedings. I learned more about this case and the prosecution by reading this thread.

Nothing seemed clear in the documentary to me other than they botched the investigation, coerced them into testifying something, and that Amanda and her boyfriend were a bit crazy. Then viola, innocence is proved! (I felt like this part was rushed).
 
Timedog said:
Knox's story, the changes in story, and behavior are so unbelievable. I think she at the very least knows more than she's saying.
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what changes in her story? they forced a false confession out of her, which happens all the time. and i don't understand why people make such a big deal out of her behavior. she's quirky. so?
 
After watching this, I feel really bad for Amanda. She was turned into a victim by the police and the country which is disgusting. Leaking her sex life into the press was just plain sexist. The evidence doesnt match up, eye witness accounts were not reliable. I am glad there were smarter people putting this together rather than people making up scenarios that dont add up. I mean they got the guy right now. They convicted him. His story made like no sense.

Surprised there are people in this thread who believe otherwise. Makes me glad they are not in charge of handling things like this.
 
MisterR said:
That tends to happen with forced confessions.
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Exactly. And even if she's lying or withholding - what investigative scenario are we talking about here? That she slashed the throat of her room mate or had her killed out of some perverted jealousy or sense of rejection?

Where does that narrative even come from? Did any key witness or primary source even hint at such a possibility? Or is that all the fantasy of an incompetent lead amplified by the tabloid press?

In real world investigations, you focus on the most likely scenario first: a night-time burglary turned into an opportunistic rape and unplanned murder is not only more probable, it's actually corroborated by the few bits of physical evidence and statements the Perugia police didn't foul up (e.g. her DNA is not even found on the actual crime scene.)
 
Great doc.

Both the prosecutor and "journalist" dude were infuriating.

The prosecutor seems suck in the 1800s with his bullshit psyc analysis that at times seemed ridiculously sexists. People's behavior under stress is extremely unpredictable and false memories especially when told your lying are hard to dislodge.

And the press dude was too stupidly thick headed to see how much he ruined Amanda's life for his own personal "glory" even when he was wrong.

Also wtf at guedes lawyer with that random racist comment about cave paintings?
 
Timedog said:
Knox's story, the changes in story, and behavior are so unbelievable. I think she at the very least knows more than she's saying.
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No they are not. They're fairly common when under stress and being harassed after you've told the correct story for hours but they keep telling you you're wrong.

Especially when you know youre innocent you just want out.
 
didn't follow the case or story at all when it was happening, and watched this whole doc cold. It's pretty obvious from like 10 minutes in that she had absolutely nothing to do with this poor girls death. How it became the fucking fiesta it did I will never understand.

That Italian arrogance in the face of being 100% wrong was delicious though.
 
What I found most shocking is towards the end it was revealed her and her boyfriend were only dating 5 days! I thought it was a long period of time. Man, they both went through hell and back and not once did I believe they had any involvement. What I also like is she didn't portray herself other then herself. She said and acted exactly who she is. I felt sorry for their ordeal they went through only dating for 5 days. What a cluster fuck. Can you imagine?

The story they were convicted on was so damn absurd!
 
storafötter;219002642 said:
Yeah left very unsatisfied. At least they could get more into details about what made Rudy guilty. I get that his DNA was there but they didn't speak much about that type of DNA other than the poop. I feel like they stumbled too much while trying to first show things from the prosecution side without getting anywhere but just turning things upside down.

The Steven Avery case and documentary was a lot more interesting and indepth into the proceedings. I learned more about this case and the prosecution by reading this thread.

Nothing seemed clear in the documentary to me other than they botched the investigation, coerced them into testifying something, and that Amanda and her boyfriend were a bit crazy. Then viola, innocence is proved! (I felt like this part was rushed).
Click to expand...

And they were not even crazy. Young people party, have sex, and fall in love. So what?
 
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