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[Amakusa]

That little kid, doesn't know what the hell he is. He hasn't even hit puberty yet. His balls aren't even releasing enough testosterone in his body to make him feel like a real man.

I really hope, that kid isn't enjoying the attention his parents are showing him and he's just a little confused. When he hits 12-14 and still wants to dress like a girl..., then I'll show him some respect.

 

[Koyuga]

You believe that you're born transgender, I think I understand that. But still, I don't think the lifestyle should be forced on kids until they've matured.

A lot of trans people have known they were trans since they were very young, myself included. And is wanting to be accepted and treated like any boy or girl really that much of a lifestyle choice?

Also a reason why this is done before puberty is that any changes up to there are completely reversable, while puberty is more or less a one way ride. Puberty can be a very distressing and dangerous for someone experiencing gender dysphoria.

 

[Emerson]

I'm talking about the assertions that children don't know when they're different. They know. I knew. My parents knew.

You're not transgender though, right?

Being a tomboy isn't the same as being transgendered. I certainly agree kids will know when they're one or the other, but I don't see one as being proof of the other.

 

[MrToughPants]

I'm hopeful that one day we can discuss these topics without the undercurrent of the conversation being "this person doesn't know or is lying for some reason."

Hey, man, I knew by the age of 3 that I was a T-101.

Also Breaking News: children crave attention.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

That little kid, doesn't know what the hell he is. He hasn't even hit puberty yet. His balls aren't even releasing enough testosterone in his body to make him feel like a real man.

I really hope, that kid isn't enjoying the attention his parents are showing him and he's just a little confused. When he hits 12-14 and still wants to dress like a girl..., then I'll show him some respect.

Right, because we all know that the way a person is raised doesn't influence them for life.

Seriously, it's just a 3rd grader with a dick being able to use the girl's restroom. Why are some of you so offended and bothered by this to have reactions like that?

 

[Gaborn]

That little kid, doesn't know what the hell he is. He hasn't even hit puberty yet. His balls aren't even releasing enough testosterone in his body to make him feel like a real man.

I really hope, that kid isn't enjoying the attention his parents are showing him and he's just a little confused. When he hits 12-14 and still wants to dress like a girl..., then I'll show him some respect.

I'm not even going to respond beyond bolding that.

 

[Koyuga]

That little kid, doesn't know what the hell he is. He hasn't even hit puberty yet. His balls aren't even releasing enough testosterone in his body to make him feel like a real man.

I really hope, that kid isn't enjoying the attention his parents are showing him and he's just a little confused. When he hits 12-14 and still wants to dress like a girl..., then I'll show him some respect.

You need to realise that this kind of logic is harmful to children experiencing dysphoria. The child is 10 years old, more than old enough to have a solid gender identity.

 

[BadAss2961]

This is wrong. Kids can definitely dictate personal preferences and their parents can let them do so. I told my parents I hated dresses and they obliged. I started wearing shirts and shorts instead of skirts and dresses. I was comfortable in these clothes. I hated pink. Parents stopped buying it. I liked red (because of the niners) and blue. The only dresses or skirts I had were formal clothes for school events. And even then if I could get away with wearing formal pants instead of a skirt I did.

Your situation doesn't compare.

This would be a very different thread if the child was being forced to live as a girl.

Also, I facepalmed at lifestyle.

So now we're listening to the requests of 10 year olds to the point of sending boys to school dressed as girls? Not a good idea.

The bold text is all I mean by "lifestyle."

 

[Cyan]

When he hits 12-14..., then I'll show him some respect.

Why wait?

So now we're listening to the requests of 10 year olds to the point of sending boys to school dressed as girls? Not a good idea.

How is it a bad idea? Understand, this isn't just a kid saying "hey, it'd be cool to try being a girl!" and then the parents/teachers/school bend over backwards to force the poor deluded boy into an unwanted transmogrification. It's not something that happens on a whim.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Wait, I don't get it. Is it simply because the child likes to put on dresses and play with dolls, or something?

Can't you do that stuff and still be considered a boy?

 

[Koyuga]

Your situation doesn't compare. So now we're listening to the requests of 10 year olds to the point of sending boys to school dressed as girls? Not a good idea.

The bold text is all I mean by "lifestyle."

Why is it not a good idea?

 

[Gaborn]

Your situation doesn't compare. So now we're listening to the requests of 10 year olds to the point of sending boys to school dressed as girls? Not a good idea.

The bold text is all I mean by "lifestyle."

She's not a boy though. She is a girl in the most relevant way, which is gender identity. All you're citing is... plumbing.

 

[Salsa]

Apparently when I was a kid I thought I was gonna be a girl when I grew up.

As in, it was a natural process that every human being went through. You just hit a certain age and bam, you're a girl

 

[Shouta]

This would be a very different thread if the child was being forced to live as a girl.

Also, I facepalmed at lifestyle.

Kids take a lot of behavioral cues from their parents. So while it may not be forced in the sense that it's demanded out right, there's maybe an indirect influence in the mix.

I don't really disagree with the parents wanting what's best the kid and working right away to get it done properly but a more gender neutral approach might be warranted, I think. The kid has to build a proper identity before doing all the work going one way or the other. Hormone blockers would be a good idea but give the kids a few more years to really figure it out.

 

[kirblar]

Wait, I don't get it. Is it simply because the child likes to put on dresses and play with dolls, or something?

Can't you do that stuff and still be considered a boy?

It's the difference between the kid saying "I like pretending to be a girl" and "I am a girl"

 

[Suairyu]

That little kid, doesn't know what the hell he is. He hasn't even hit puberty yet. His balls aren't even releasing enough testosterone in his body to make him feel like a real man.

Oh dear.

 

[mescalineeyes]

And to think that after that phenomenal thread we had, people like LeBrick James and Amakusa would know better than to make posts like that...

 

[Devolution]

Your situation doesn't compare. So now we're listening to the requests of 10 year olds to the point of sending boys to school dressed as girls? Not a good idea.

The bold text is all I mean by "lifestyle."

Explain how it doesn't compare.

 

[Cyan]

Kids take a lot of behavioral cues from their parents. So while it may not be forced in the sense that it's demanded out right, there's maybe an indirect influence in the mix.

I don't know a lot about the process, but I imagine that'd be something doctors/psychologists would look for before letting things go forward.

 

[Gaborn]

Kids take a lot of behavioral cues from their parents. So while it may not be forced in the sense that it's demanded out right, there's maybe an indirect influence in the mix.

I don't really disagree with the parents wanting what's best the kid and working right away to get it done properly but a more gender neutral approach might be warranted, I think. The kid has to build a proper identity before doing all the work going one way or the other. Hormone blockers would be a good idea but give the kids a few more years to really figure it out.

And in the mean time... what? This is about managing a child's best interests to keep them happy psychologically. Gender dysphoria can be very dangerous for a kid and its best to allow them to identify as their gender earlier than later and to dress as appropriate for their gender, etc.

 

[SoulPlaya]

It's the difference between the kid saying "I like pretending to be a girl" and "I am a girl"

Is the kid capable of differentiating the difference? Maybe the kid just thinks dresses and girls are cool?

 

[Amakusa]

Why wait?



How is it a bad idea? Understand, this isn't just a kid saying "hey, it'd be cool to try being a girl!" and then the parents/teachers/school bend over backwards to force the poor deluded boy into an unwanted transmogrification. It's not something that happens on a whim.

I remember 12-14, how a felt about life and girls. Its the age we boys start... (slowly start) to mature. What makes you feel normal in life, either being attracted to a male or female. 12-14 is the age. That Middle school to Freshmen highschool.

 

[IceCold]

Every single time a thread with this topic is made the same exact discussion happens:

You have the people who think the kid is too young, and should wait until he/she's old enough.

And those who think the process should start asap.

 

[Gaborn]

I remember 12-14, how a felt about life and girls. Its the age we boys start... (slowly start) to mature. What makes you feel normal in life, either being attracted to a male or female. 12-14 is the age. That Middle school to Freshmen highschool.

This isn't an issue of sexual orientation.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I remember 12-14, how a felt about life and girls. Its the age we boys start... (slowly start) to mature. What makes you feel normal in life, either being attracted to a male or female. 12-14 is the age. That Middle school to Freshmen highschool.

What one is attracted to has nothing to do with this.

 

[Cyan]

I remember 12-14, how a felt about life and girls. Its the age we boys start... (slowly start) to mature. What makes you feel normal in life, either being attracted to a male or female. 12-14 is the age. That Middle school to Freshmen highschool.

So anyone younger hasn't started to mature and thus deserves no respect?

 

[BadAss2961]

Why is it not a good idea?

Maybe because your child is probably gonna be in for a world of abuse that they're not even old enough to comprehend.

She's not a boy though. She is a girl in the most relevant way, which is gender identity. All you're citing is... plumbing.

So every little boy that thinks they're a girl, or maybe just wants to be a girl is no longer a boy? I don't know this particular kid's situation, but this is what you're sounding like to me.

 

[Devolution]

Every single time a thread with this topic is made the same exact discussion happens:

You have the people who think the kid is too young, and should wait until he/she's old enough.

And those who think the process should start asap.

Allowing for hormone blockers isn't starting the process asap, it's allowing a delay of puberty to ensure they have time to choose.

Maybe because your child is probably gonna be in for a world of abuse that they're not even old enough to comprehend. So every little boy that thinks they're a girl, or maybe just wants to be a girl is no longer a boy? I don't know this particular kid's situation, but this is what you're sounding like to me.

Every time we have this thread people ignorant of gender identity in children don't bother to look up developmental milestones and think kids are just lying because they're kids. Seriously. Go read up.

 

[kirblar]

Is the kid capable of differentiating the difference? Maybe the kid just thinks dresses and girls are cool?

This is why they hold off on doing anything permanent for a very long time.

I remember 12-14, how a felt about life and girls. Its the age we boys start... (slowly start) to mature. What makes you feel normal in life, either being attracted to a male or female. 12-14 is the age. That Middle school to Freshmen highschool.

You're conflating two very different things.

 

[Koyuga]

Every single time a thread with this topic is made the same exact discussion happens:

You have the people who think the kid is too young, and should wait until he/she's old enough.

And those who think the process should start asap.

Well the process as of now is pretty harmless if they discover that this isn't what they want later on.

 

[Cyan]

Maybe because your child is probably gonna be in for a world of abuse that they're not even old enough to comprehend.

Sounds rough. I imagine anyone who's wishy-washy about the whole thing would wash out pretty quick, yeah?

 

[Gaborn]

So every little boy that thinks they're a girl, or maybe just wants to be a girl is no longer a boy? I don't know this particular kid's situation, but this is what you're sounding like to me.

She never was a boy. At all. She was a girl. The classic analogy is being "trapped in the wrong body." It's not like someone started out as a boy, say, and then suddenly at a certain age a girl spirit takes over the body and becomes trapped. She's a girl. Is, was, will be.

 

[Razek]

Since we're all here, may I ask two questions for those who are informed?

-What constitutes a transgendered person to want to choose a different or opposing role? As in, is it a chemical process in the brain?

-How does a child that is below the age of 5 understand the exact gender roles themselves? Isn't it still up for debate that gender roles themselves are merely social constructs, not inherited traits?

Edit: Lol at this thread being made right when I ask this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=493080

 

[BadAss2961]

Explain how it doesn't compare.

Because girls can dress like boys without there being any confusion. Being comfortable in more boyish clothing, you were probably just considered a tomboy at most.

 

[Devolution]

Because girls can dress like boys without there being any confusion. Being comfortable in more boyish clothing, you were probably just considered a tomboy at most.

And do you understand why it wasn't an affront to anyone that I was doing these things?

 

[Gaborn]

Since we're all here, may I ask two questions for those who are informed?

-What constitutes a transgendered person to want to choose a different or opposing role? As in, is it a chemical process in the brain?

If I might reword your question are you asking "why do transgender people exist?" The short answer to that is that the cause is not not known. It HAS been shown that transgender people tend to have brains that respond similarly to their gender identity rather than their biological sex though. That is, its not purely "in their mind" if you will.

How does a child that is below the age of 5 understand the exact gender roles themselves? Isn't it still up for debate that gender roles themselves are merely social constructs, not inherited traits?

How does a cis boy or girl understand their gender role? Most of it is probably cultural (for example pink used to be considered a male color, blue was for girls) and to some extent the fact that you're being socialized one way just "feels wrong" to you, that is, if you're a trans girl you're being socialized like a boy but you SEE other girls being treated differently and that appeals to you more.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

I'm not sure how I feel about this, is the kid about 7?

I just think its too young personally, you say they can delay puberty to ensure the right decision is made but now using the female toilets and the like will influence the kid at a vital age

For me 7 year olds shouldn't be able to dictate stuff like this as they have no idea what they want

 

[KefkaPalazzo]

Disgusted by some of these comments.

Annoyed by the ones implying he should wait. It will be a far eaiser transition if the process begins now.

 

[Amakusa]

ohhhh hell no.
If your father came over to you at that age and placed his hand on your shoulder and said, "if you doing this makes you feel natural... I'm always behind you 100% of the choices you make"

A kid at that age, his father and mother accepting him (just so you know, I will type HE all damn night. I'm not accepting a 10 year stating he's feels like a girl) Not at that age, you guys found where I draw the line.

That kid is feeding off the level of attention, he is getting from his mother and his father. He is confused.

 

[out0v0rder]

oh boy, that's nuts.
sounds like the parents are involved.

 

[Cyan]

(just so you know, I will type HE all damn night. I'm not accepting a 10 year stating he's feels like a girl) Not at that age, you guys found where I draw the line.

Cool, please link us to the studies you are using to come to this conclusion.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I'm not sure how I feel about this, is the kid about 7?

I just think its too young personally, you say they can delay puberty to ensure the right decision is made but now using the female toilets and the like will influence the kid at a vital age

For me 7 year olds shouldn't be able to dictate stuff like this as they have no idea what they want

If one is young enough to know he has a dick and is a boy, why isn't is reasonable to think one is young enough to have a dick and know she is a girl?

That kid is feeding off the level of attention, he is getting from his mother and his father. He is confused.

I feel this way about you.

 

[Perspicacity]

That little kid, doesn't know what the hell he is. He hasn't even hit puberty yet. His balls aren't even releasing enough testosterone in his body to make him feel like a real man.

I really hope, that kid isn't enjoying the attention his parents are showing him and he's just a little confused. When he hits 12-14 and still wants to dress like a girl..., then I'll show him some respect.

How much testosterone does a person need to have before they become a real man? Is it like Pokemon where you hit a certain level and then you finally evolve into Man or is it like a skill tree that you can put bits of testosterone into to form your manliness, but you don't get a feel for the tree until you're a few levels deep?

 

[Razek]

If I might reword your question are you asking "why do transgender people exist?" The short answer to that is that the cause is not not known. It HAS been shown that transgender people tend to have brains that respond similarly to their gender identity rather than their biological sex though. That is, its not purely "in their mind" if you will.




How does a cis boy or girl understand their gender role? Most of it is probably cultural (for example pink used to be considered a male color, blue was for girls) and to some extent the fact that you're being socialized one way just "feels wrong" to you, that is, if you're a trans girl you're being socialized like a boy but you SEE other girls being treated differently and that appeals to you more.

Interesting. I wonder what the underlying causation factor is then. Seems like an incredibly complex issue since gender itself is a societal construct (for the most part).

 

[CHEEZMO™]

How much testosterone does a person need to have before they become a real man? Is it like Pokemon where you hit a certain level and then you finally evolve into Man or is it like a skill tree that you can put bits of testosterone into to form your manliness, but you don't get a feel for the tree until you're a few levels deep?

100 into penis

 

[BadAss2961]

She never was a boy. At all. She was a girl. The classic analogy is being "trapped in the wrong body." It's not like someone started out as a boy, say, and then suddenly at a certain age a girl spirit takes over the body and becomes trapped. She's a girl. Is, was, will be.

Then we just disagree.

And do you understand why it wasn't an affront to anyone that I was doing these things?

Because what you were doing isn't anything out of the norm or controversial at all?

And to think that after that phenomenal thread we had, people like LeBrick James and Amakusa would know better than to make posts like that...

Opinions man, people have them. lol

 

[Neki]

ohhhh hell no.
If your father came over to you at that age and placed his hand on your shoulder and said, "if you doing this makes you feel natural... I'm always behind you 100% of the choices you make"

A kid at that age, his father and mother accepting him (just so you know, I will type HE all damn night. I'm not accepting a 10 year stating he's feels like a girl) Not at that age, you guys found where I draw the line.

That kid is feeding off the level of attention, he is getting from his mother and his father. He is confused.

Man, you're either choosing to be willfully ignorant or you truly believe that a person could never have gender dysphoria because you keep insisting that the child is just confused and doesn't know better

If the kid really wanted attention, I'm sure they could do much easier things than pretending to be another gender.

 

[Deified Data]

Sounds like a very forward-thinking school system.

 

[Devolution]

Because what you were doing isn't anything out of the norm or controversial at all?

I'm not asking you why it was okay for me to do these things, I'm asking why it wasn't okay for boys to do the opposite.

ohhhh hell no.
If your father came over to you at that age and placed his hand on your shoulder and said, "if you doing this makes you feel natural... I'm always behind you 100% of the choices you make"

A kid at that age, his father and mother accepting him (just so you know, I will type HE all damn night. I'm not accepting a 10 year stating he's feels like a girl) Not at that age, you guys found where I draw the line.

That kid is feeding off the level of attention, he is getting from his mother and his father. He is confused.

You certainly know more about this child than even its parents and doctors. You must have some real insight no one else does. Do you have a newsletter?

 

[Razek]

100 into penis

Best. Thread. Ever.