Enter The 36 Chambers
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Jesus, that child is going to get torn apart come high school.
Basically yes.
Also, your name change is jarring.
Hey at least I kept the avatar.
Other than yourself, of course! Random gaffot #879843 knows best.
Because there is no neutral course of action, let's go over the options one more time:
1) Hormone blockers allow a child time to make a choice. Not every kid needs this option, of course, but one expressing strong symptoms of a certain clinically recognized disorder called "gender dysphoria" probably does!
2) Natural puberty forces (!) a child to undergo a change that they may or may not want - at this point, things indicate that they do not want! - and will most likely cause a difficult-to-reverse and excruciating period at the most important developmental age in a human being's life, as they grow into the person they are...or, you know, are forced to become something they know they aren't.
But, you know, who gives a shit about the kid. Lying little shit just wants attention, amirite, GAF?
bro, needlessly hostile
views aside, let's respect each other.
Basically yes.
Also, your name change is jarring.
I don't recall ever wanting to be a girl though..
It's not needless. Many have gone on to say children are just doing it for attention. This kind of wanton hand waving of real issues is part of the problem.
Is this really it? That's nothing more than what I expected. It's not that I don't believe this evidence to be true, because it does make sense. But that wasn't my argument... I clearly said that not all transgendered people have these differences, and a couple of you jumped all over that.http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html
Here's some evidence suggesting a difference.
Claiming that all brain regions are the same in every individual is a positive claim. You need to supply evidence too. "Its common sense" is not legitimate evidence. It is begging the question.
I'm not hostile or annoyed, but when I asked the same question earlier, why couldn't you just have said that then?
because you asked about transgender people and CornBurrito was making a statement about homosexuality. They're distinct. We don't truly have a cause pinpointed for transgender people.
Is this really it? That's nothing more than what I expected. It's not that I don't believe this evidence to be true, because it does make sense. But that wasn't my argument... I clearly said that not all transgendered people have these differences, and a couple of you jumped all over that.
You can't honestly believe that everyone's behavior can be explained by suggested evidence.
Dang it you beat me to the edit. Yeah, just reread. Sorry.
I'm going to go ahead and open this can of worms. How do you feel about pedophilia being treated as a medical issue? As far as I can tell, the media and general population treats a pedophile as somebody that we'd all prefer just be dead. Now I can understand that viewpoint when talking about a pedophile who has actually harmed children. I don't think any amount of innate desires should override your responsibility to protect and respect children. However, I don't think in this world today that a pedophile that has done no harm to children and honestly views his condition as a curse could get the kind of understanding that they deserve. I think among a majority group of the population, a gay man can come out to his friends and get the kind of support they should get. I think if a pedophile were to come out to his friends and try to explain that they want to do everything they can to get rid of those kinds of feelings and such would be met with universal rejection and revulsion. Whenever I bring up this point to my friends that are for the most part in favor of sexual equality, they have this attitude that pedophilia is just some sort of sick perversion that bad people are into because they just enjoy the power of it and harming kids. That is certainly true for some, but I think there are a real group of people that feel like they are living with a born curse and deserve to be treated differently.
Do you believe that all trans people have these differences in their brain?What exactly are you trying to accomplish by finding the exception to the rule?
Is this really it? That's nothing more than what I expected. It's not that I don't believe this evidence to be true, because it does make sense. But that wasn't my argument... I clearly said that not all transgendered people have these differences, and a couple of you jumped all over that.
You can't honestly believe that everyone's behavior can be explained by suggested evidence.
Do you believe that all trans people have these differences in their brain?
Do you believe that all trans people have these differences in their brain?
the post he was quoting was pretty tame and that's who it's directed at.
No one is going to touch that. Maybe I shouldn't either.Another douchey bump by me!
Pretty tired of people insisting that their ignorance allows them a better perspective on the situation than the person in question (or their parents, doctors, teachers, friends, family, etc.)
These threads are pretty predictable and this behavior is pretty annoying as well as hurtful - especially the childish "I refuse to call her a he!" junk.
Another douchey bump by me!
No one is going to touch that. Maybe I shouldn't either.
Here, have some recent articles on that exact topic that might interest you:
http://gawker.com/5941037/born-this...for-those-who--want-to-have-sex-with-children
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...od_sexual_abuse_how_to_treat_pedophilia_.html
Pedophilia is different than transgender people or sexual orientation, etc. It's a paraphilia which means it IS a mental illness. But that doesn't absolve you from RESPONSIBILITY. Take kleptomania for example. Kleptomania is a recognized disorder where an individual is compelled to take things. But they can still be arrested tried and convicted for theft or burglary or other related crimes. Or say a mother has Münchausen syndrome by proxy and is causing their child to be sick by poisoning them with something. Do you think they get off in those situations? Some do, most don't. Pedophiles who don't act on their desires should absolutely be treated by the psychiatric community. Those that act on them should face teh full weight of the legal system.
What separates something from being a mental illness instead of a natural sexual orientation? I understand that, for very obvious reasons, pedophilia is not considered acceptable in our society and homosexuality is. I mean more in regards in the medical term. What about the brain chemistry of a pedophile is categorically different than a homosexual person? Is it considered an illness specifically because of the fact that the acts that are followed with this condition are illegal and something 99.9% of the population would agree is wrong?
I can believe the study you linked makes sense if that opposite trait (male/female) is found in the brain of a transgendered person. But to believe there is even a chance that every transgendered person shares these traits, I think is crazy.And I don't know. I haven't looked at the brains all trans and cis individuals. Current research suggests there is a difference.
I'm not going to make the positive claim that not all of them have the difference without evidence. "It is common sense" isn't evidence.
Why does it matter if she has any particular trait or not?Which brings me back to the topic. We have no idea if this kid has this trait or not. I'd be just as right to think that maybe he doesn't as you would be to assume that he does.
I can believe the study you linked makes sense if that opposite trait (male/female) is found in the brain of a transgendered person. But to believe there is even a chance that every transgendered person shares these traits, I think is crazy.
Which brings me back to the topic. We have no idea if this kid has this trait or not. I'd be just as right to think that maybe he doesn't as you would be to assume that he does.
I linked you to Wikipedia's article on paraphilia for a reason, it answers most of your questions.
lol, ok 3rd grader. Still kinda seems ridiculous to me though.
From what I gathered about the parts that related to my questions, it sounds like paraphilia generally regards to sexual traits that are not entirely brought up by genetics or brain chemistry. It sounds like somebody would make the argument that pedophilia is a condition brought out by the pedophile either by his/her own actions or acts done to himself/herself. This sounds like the same argument that was used against homosexuality for some time. I'm glad to read that the medical community is not in agreement of the use of paraphilias. With neuroscience being where it is today, I hope a closer look is taken to pedophiles. Hopefully there is some way of treatment. If I were a pedophile, I think I would love for there to be some sort of hormonal treatment option to alter my arousals.
It would be more amazing if the parents werent okay with this.It is ridiculous, im amazed the parents are okay with this.
No, I think you're missing that paraphilias are generally non-consensual and inherently harmful. That is, desire for sex with a child (and following through with that desire to any degree) is inherently destructive and harmful. Whereas gay people can and do form normal consensual adult relationships.
Pedophiles by contrast tend to have their victims "age out" which causes them to move onto new victims.
Read that again, please.Are you disagreeing with this research? Show us the research you have done.
I understand that part, and addressed it earlier. I don't think that should really act as any sort of categorical divider from a medical standpoint.
It would be more amazing if the parents werent okay with this.
The kid clearly *is* old enough to make that decision, because it *is* the decision she has made. She has been evaluated by an actual professional.How so? The child is what, 8/9 years old? Just doesnt seem normal. Wait untill the kid is old enough to make that decision. Thats just not the age to do it.
The kid clearly *is* old enough to make that decision, because it *is* the decision she has made. She has been evaluated by an actual professional.
There are no irreversible changes at this point, since she doesn't seem to be on puberty blockers quite yet. Why not let her do what she wants for now?
It should be immediately obvious.How so?
To do what?The child is what, 8/9 years old? Just doesnt seem normal. Wait untill the kid is old enough to make that decision. Thats just not the age to do it.
I havent read much into this case so i dont know the circumstances. I just dont think its a great idea at that age. I wouldnt let my child make that decision at such a young age.
How so? The child is what, 8/9 years old? Just doesnt seem normal. Wait untill the kid is old enough to make that decision. Thats just not the age to do it.
Oh no! Wearing girl clothes is such an extreme decision!!!
I hope if you have a daughter you don't freak out if she wants to dress like a boy.
I don't agree with this. They are certainly socially relevant - important - when they are made so, from children's dress to playing styles to interactional style and so forth, with male children (at least in the United States) facing much more pressure not to behave "like girls" than girls face (at least before puberty) not to behave like boys. I agree that this pressure does not occur as often or as strongly from one's peers at this age, who as you say can possess some gender blindness, but adults tend to be the ones who socialize and directly pressure kids to behave in gender appropriate ways.
So given that gender is something that is socially defined, that kids are socialized into from infancy, it does not make sense that you would say that kids will be themselves without defining whether they are a boy or girl. How many little kids do you know who don't define themselves as a boy or a girl? And with the social and performative aspects of gender (which Stumples actually linked to in this post in Squiddy's topic), where we define our identities in relation to others' reactions to our social performances, I find it hard to buy this notion that children do this.
Even in your example, you seem to be describing whether you recall categorizing your friends on the basis of gender in early childhood, and not whether they were defining themselves in terms of gender.
Oh no! Wearing girl clothes is such an extreme decision!!!
I hope if you have a daughter you don't freak out if she wants to dress like a boy.
There's a huge difference between wishing you are a girl and knowing you aren't a boy.I did. If it matters to anyone.
Not doubting this family's decisions or tryng to read someone else's mind, but I definitely went through a time period where I wanted to be a gilr and I'm most certainly not gender confused or questioning as an adult. I do wholly respect that some people are in the wrong body and encourage them to fix it, but... you get it.
Don't bait them with logic.
Well it is an extreme decision? Im glad Openminded-Gaf is here in full force but im not so sure i feel the same way. If my daughter did decide to wear boys clothes and transition into a boy naturally that would be freak out worthy.
On the contrary, we have an excellent idea. That she identifies as a girl and wants others to identify her as such is strong evidence that she has whatever cluster of traits make up a transgender individual.Which brings me back to the topic. We have no idea if this kid has this trait or not.
No. Lack of absolute certainty is not the same as a 50/50 proposition.I'd be just as right to think that maybe he doesn't as you would be to assume that he does.