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[Musashi Wins!]

Oh for crying out loud.

Why do people create these huge conspiracy theories? Does it make life more interesting?

I know plenty of game journalists. They are people, just like you or me. If a game is crap, they will tell you that a game is crap.
:lol

There is an embargo just like there always is. It's nothing new.

Hey, how about this, before trashing a group of people, try meeting one of them first.

I don't need to meet them to know that they are paid lackeys, when at the very least they might be an honest force for consumers. I mean at the very least. Forget all those silly discussions we have here about whether reviews are written well, etc.

If it's nothing new, than tell me Sony and Nintendo do it for a launch system as well. You imply haha, conspiracy theories, when my "conspiracy" is laid out for all to see. I'm sure they're all high standard individuals, I correspond in PM with more than a few of them, but I have no esteem for them professionally if this is true.

 

[Catchpenny]

Gotta disagree with Speevy on this. GTALS and Mario Kart will probably outsell the hottest 360 games. Heck, I'll go one step further and bet Dragon Quest 8 outsells any single X360 title this year. Squeenix's biggest title of the year, has the FFXII demo bundled in, light competition on the PS2 by November standards, and the DBZ kids will go nuts for it.

The 360 launch lineup has plenty of good games to go around, but nothing that really stands above the rest. There will be a lot of cannibalization in sales, too...you've got PGR3/RR6/NFS going up against each other, and then PD0/CoD2/Quake 4 in the shooter department. Madden will be the best selling 360 game.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Heck, I'll go one step further and bet Dragon Quest 8 outsells any single X360 title this year. Squeenix's biggest title of the year, has the FFXII demo bundled in, light competition on the PS2 by November standards

I agree with this.

 

[SuperPac]

If it's nothing new, than tell me Sony and Nintendo do it for a launch system as well. You imply haha, conspiracy theories, when my "conspiracy" is laid out for all to see. I'm sure they're all high standard individuals, I correspond in PM with more than a few of them, but I have no esteem for them professionally if this is true.

Oh, oh... this one's easy.

Sony and Nintendo don't do this same kind of "no reviews" embargo for their system launches because they can't. By the time either of their systems launch in the US, many of the games will have been available to consumers in Japan for months. But I'm sure they wish they could.

 

[Chiggs]

Oh for crying out loud.

Why do people create these huge conspiracy theories? Does it make life more interesting?

I know plenty of game journalists. They are people, just like you or me. If a game is crap, they will tell you that a game is crap.
:lol

There is an embargo just like there always is. It's nothing new.

Hey, how about this, before trashing a group of people, try meeting one of them first.

Nope. Microsoft is clearly up to something here - and I think it *might* have something to do with that Illuminati Moonbase they purchased last year.

 

[GashPrex]

I agree with this.

DQ8??? what ??

 

[Speevy]

I don't think Dragon Quest 8 has the Final Fantasy-like (over) production to sell like one of those games here in the US. Those demos are being handed out like free food samples (I received one just for saying I like RPG's), and there's promotion for it EVERYWHERE. I'm not so sure Level 5's style appeals to everyone, but we'll see. It's definitely on my list though.

What are preorders like for the game? (for retail employees)

 

[mj1108]

Oh, oh... this one's easy.

Sony and Nintendo don't do this same kind of "no reviews" embargo for their system launches because they can't. By the time either of their systems launch in the US, many of the games will have been available to consumers in Japan for months.

So is there actually an embargo on the launch lineup or is the OP just trying to start conspiracy theories?

I know there is on individual titles from time to time, but on a whole launch lineup?? I dunno...

 

[Mrbob]

Oh, oh... this one's easy.

Sony and Nintendo don't do this same kind of "no reviews" embargo for their system launches because they can't. By the time either of their systems launches in the US, many of the launch games will have been available to consumers in Japan for months.

Not that easy.

DS launched first in NA. Reviews were up before launch.

PSP NA specific games like Wipeout Pure, Twisted Metal, etc. had reviews up before launch too.

MS hiding quite a bit for a 400 dollar console with 60 dollar games. Must not have much confidence in their so called greatest launch lineup of all time then to embargo all online reviews till launch or after.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Oh, oh... this one's easy.

Sony and Nintendo don't do this same kind of "no reviews" embargo for their system launches because they can't. By the time either of their systems launches in the US, many of the launch games will have been available to consumers in Japan for months.

Well Japanese reviews are quite literally bought for most the time. But again, the media here has access to those games. Apparently they have access to final 360 games. But the scope of the hole is larger, true. What about the handheld launches? I guess this is a particular MS practice on this scale.

 

[gamergirly]

Did MS ever release how many final copies they plan to allocate out of the Big 3(Kameo, PGR3, PDZero) by the end of this year?

Gosh, they just have so much riding on this launch. It's like the only free shot they get before PS3 storms into town

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Man, I'm bummed that all of our insiders are avoiding this wacky, conspiracy theory thread.

 

[Matlock]

CONSOLE LAUNCH HAS EMBARGOES
GAF SHOCKED THAT REPORTERS AGREE TO EGREGIOUS DEMANDS
REAL WORLD RESTS EASILY

 

[Musashi Wins!]

CONSOLE LAUNCH HAS EMBARGOES
GAF SHOCKED THAT REPORTERS AGREE TO EGREGIOUS DEMANDS
REAL WORLD RESTS EASILY

NEW WANNABE LAPDOG LAPS FIRST

 

[GashPrex]

Man, I'm bummed that all of our insiders are avoiding this wacky, conspiracy theory thread.

maybe because it's so stupid it dosen't really warrent a response.

 

[Soul4ger]

Please, have you seen EGM's coverage? Dan Hsu says: There aren't any games I want, but I sure am looking forward to all teh Xbox Live options I can use with all teh games I'm not gonna buy!

Of course they're supporting this bullshit. It's not like they have any credibility left to lose.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

maybe because it's so stupid it dosen't really warrent a response.

Again, what's stupid that I want them to defend the debased nature of their work life when it comes to being paid to not do their jobs? I'm fully prepared for them to bark back at me if I'm off base here. Just so you understand, I want the estimation of those who don't suck them off for free. It doesn't concern you.

 

[GhaleonEB]

maybe because it's so stupid it dosen't really warrent a response.

QFT, as they say.

 

[Andy787]

wow, some of you are far too eager to overreact, launch isn't till the 22nd of this month. lot's of games are embargoed till closer to launch/release dates, it's part of a marketing strategy.

Just talk to rockstar, they don't do it because they are "afraid"

you really have no idea do you? Gamespot/IGN/Whoever sit on reviews till certain dates agreed upon by the publisher all the time. As for rockstar, they didn't give gamespot copies because they wouldn't agree to certain terms, but they do give out copies that are embargoed.

No, I think you really have no idea. Do you know what journalism is?

Spoiler

Protip: It's not marketing

Anyway, I agree with Musashi. It is a terrible practice, but sadly it occures industry-wide so often that the professional press really can't fight back if they want to stay competitive, unless they formed a union or something.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Again, what's stupid that I want them to defend the debased nature of their work life when it comes to being paid to not do their jobs? I'm fully prepared for them to bark back at me if I'm off base here. Just so you understand, I want the estimation of those who don't suck them off for free. It doesn't concern you.

You don't seem to get that review embargos are normal. That's been pointed out lots and lots of times. But the fact that NDA's are a normal part of this, and most, industries is irrelevant when you have a theory and want to keep running with it. If any of these insiders you request repond, you'll just trash them with your "you have no itegrity because you sign NDA's and suck M$'s dick" stuff that has been spewed all over this thread. Way to make it inviting for good discourse.

 

[GashPrex]

No, I think you really have no idea. Do you know what journalism is?

Spoiler

Protip: It's not marketing

Anyway, I agree with Musashi. It is a terrible practice, but sadly it occures industry-wide so often that the professional press really can't fight back if they want to stay competitive, unless they formed a union or something.

I am not here to debate reviews/marketing/journalism in gaming, my simple point is that this is not unique to the Xbox360 situation, happens with all games, and does not in fact say shit about the quality of the games either way because of this embargo.

 

[Amir0x]

It wouldn't surprise me. But then again, I'm certain this kind of thing happens often.

It's still lame as shit, though. But gaming "journalism" isn't really anything like the word implies, so basically just GameFly everything

 

[Speevy]

The Fable and Halo 2 reviews were made into an IGN/TeamXbox event.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The Fable and Halo 2 reviews were made into an IGN/TeamXbox event.

Both of those were NDA'd until a specific time (noon on the 7th for Halo 2), I suspect partly to make the reviews an event.

 

[Deku Tree]

Not that easy.

DS launched first in NA. Reviews were up before launch.

PSP NA specific games like Wipeout Pure, Twisted Metal, etc. had reviews up before launch too.

MS hiding quite a bit for a 400 dollar console with 60 dollar games. Must not have much confidence in their so called greatest launch lineup of all time then to embargo all online reviews till launch or after.

QFT, if it's reallly the "greatest launch lineup ever" then WTF is the need for the embargo MS?

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Man, I'm bummed that all of our insiders are avoiding this wacky, conspiracy theory thread."

One already posted saying embargoes are a common practice.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

You don't seem to get that review embargos are normal. That's been pointed out lots and lots of times. But the fact that NDA's are a normal part of this, and most, industries is irrelevant when you have a theory and want to keep running with it. If any of these insiders you request repond, you'll just trash them with your "you have no itegrity because you sign NDA's and suck M$'s dick" stuff that has been spewed all over this thread. Way to make it inviting for good discourse.

I get that the occasional review embargo is normal. And I've mentioned the difference. The pot is larger, if you will. Which apparently means no-speaky.

Also, it seems that my 'theory' is either wacky or just accepted fact. You imply both.

Also, our little clique of journos and insiders are more than willing to wade in to any topic at hand, but haven't even appeared here to tell me to fuck off for maligning them (which I would apologize for if I'm wrong). The only discourse are those offering apologetics for a sickening display between large company marketing and the "press" that supports them, all because it has to do with the console they want to support. And I appreciate that, as you know I'm no enemy of the Xbox.

But damn, what better opportunity to explore the disconnect between the culture and business of what some people occasionally have the audacity to call the next "art" or important media force in our lives.

 

[gohepcat]

Well Japanese reviews are quite literally bought for most the time. But again, the media here has access to those games. Apparently they have access to final 360 games. But the scope of the hole is larger, true. What about the handheld launches? I guess this is a particular MS practice on this scale.

You have no idea how high up this thing goes!

haha

 

[Zilch]

Well, it looks like the usual suspects are defending MS and their actions yet again. *Yawn*

 

[Amir0x]

in the end, we always have the good folk at gaming age to review games and tell us how they really are.

Because if not for GA, how would we know how much Ninja Gaiden sucked?

 

[SKOPE]

Musashi Wins! ought to win some sort of tinfoil hat award for this thread.

 

[Matlock]

NEW WANNABE LAPDOG LAPS FIRST

Paranoid much? You idiots cry over every little thing. Yes, journalists can get bought out. Yes, you read reviews that may be funded by a little bit of swag and booze.

But you know what? At the end of the day, it doesn't mean a goddamned thing.

If that 9.0 was bought with a gallon of dominican rum and a Master Chief statue, you wouldn't say a single word if it were about a game you liked. In fact, you'd even cheer it, in ignorant bliss.

'course, this also brings up the double edged sword. If you think the journos are a bunch of marketing lapdogs that kowtow to the great console overlords for a few debug kits and some exclusives down the road, you've got two choices:

1. Read the reviews and take them to heart, at which point that means you're a goddamned fool for listening to the poorly paid marketing arm...
2. Or number motherfuckin' two, whereas you ignore the reviews and they don't mean a thing to you.

But apparently they do mean a thing to you, and you do care, so I'm going to side with 1 and say that your whole posture is sinking fast in bullshit.

 

[Rhindle]

Reviewable code for almost all launch games has NOT gone out yet.

Reviews for virtually every major game released these days go up no more than 24-48 hours before release. I'm sure the launch titles will be no different.

 

[Prine]

PDZ and PGR3 will more than match MK sales. Only if MS manage to ship over a million X360s in US

Musashi, i think your going overboard with this mate, not a big issue at all imo

 

[SuperPac]

eh, not worth it.

 

[Andy787]

I am not here to debate reviews/marketing/journalism in gaming, my simple point is that this is not unique to the Xbox360 situation, happens with all games, and does not in fact say shit about the quality of the games either way because of this embargo.

Which has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. Hell, I agreed with you in the very post that it happens industry-wide. And I also agree that it in no way means these games are bad, or that MS doesn't have confidence in them.

Think, man. It's not about bashing the Xbox.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Musashi Wins! ought to win some sort of tinfoil hat award for this thread.

...

you know..I don't get where you're coming from. There have been plenty of outrages over specialty press and consumer reviews with other consumer goods. The video game business is worth billions of dollars. But the fact that I think it's a problem that a company is blocking a launch worth of criticism and the specialty press is blocking it means I'm a wacko? I think that's a big deal. Even if it does happen all the time.

 

[Matlock]

Reviewable code for almost all launch games has NOT gone out yet.

Reviews for virtually every major game released these days go up no more than 24-48 hours before release. I'm sure the launch titles will be no different.

Planned actions, of course. I know of at least one square game and one atlus game G-A had for at least two months before launch, and had embargoes until a specific date.

Don't wanna bite the hand that feeds you, y'know?

 

[gohepcat]

Also, our little clique of journos and insiders are more than willing to wade in to any topic at hand, but haven't even appeared here to tell me to fuck off for maligning them

I know this is hard to fathom, but considering this thread is only an hour and a half old, it's possible that they are busy doing something else.

I'm sure they are going to be happy to tell you to fuck off shortly.

Look. There is nothing that anyone is going to be able to tell you that's going to change your mind. You made it up even before this thread started. If anyone shows up disputing what you say they are just going to be labeled "in on it". You will simply bend the story to fit your version of reality.

Please...calm down.

 

[Stinkles]

Man, I'm bummed that all of our insiders are avoiding this wacky, conspiracy theory thread.

Insiders? You already called them "paid lackeys" and dismissed their integrity out of hand. When they do get here, they will have every right to tell you to go fuck yourself.

Embargos are the rule, not the exception. Get the fuck over it. All software companies do it ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

Not only is your dumb, lame consipracy theory wrong, it's also pathetic. There will be plenty of reviews on or around launch time, and some before. Same AS ALWAYS.

FUCK!

If MS was so ashamed of the launch lineup, they wouldn't let you play half the fucker at Best Buy on a kiosk.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Look. There is nothing that anyone is going to be able to tell you that's going to change your mind. You made it up even before this thread started. If anyone shows up disputing what you say they are just going to be labeled "in on it". You will simply bend the story to fit your version of reality.

Please...calm down.

what? I'd be happy for any of those guys to tell me that. My version of reality? I think you need the healthy perspective here. I'm just trying to put the issue on the fulcrum, as it were. It's no big deal to you apparently, and I agree it's not fucking watergate and I'm not talking about ufo's. again, I don't see the conspiracy aspect you keep wanting to push, I'm asking them to answer a question about marketing and their jobs.

 

[Amir0x]

Although I agree to some degree, Stinkles...uh playing CoD2, Kameo and King Kong is not "half the fucker".

 

[Zilch]

Insiders? You already called them "paid lackeys" and dismissed their integrity out of hand. When they do get here, they will have every right to tell you to go fuck yourself.

Embargos are the rule, not the exception. Get the fuck over it. All software companies do it ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

Not only is your dumb, lame consipracy theory wrong, it's also pathetic. There will be plenty of reviews on or around launch time, and some before. Same AS ALWAYS.

FUCK!

If MS was so ashamed of the launch lineup, they wouldn't let you play half the fucker at Best Buy on a kiosk.

The straight dope, from a... well, a Bungie employee. No bias here!

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

Mock me for making a big deal out of it, that's fine. I have a reservation and several games paid off, but if this is the case I can use the information to decide what companies in consoles and magazines, etc. I'll support and not insist anyone do the same.

The "journos" aren't the ones enabling MS in this situation; consumers who make blind-buy bundle reservations like you are.

 

[Soul4ger]

If MS was so ashamed of the launch lineup, they wouldn't let you play half the fucker at Best Buy on a kiosk.

:lol

This man speaks the truth! Not only are the three games HALF the launch line-up, but we should all feel at ease for the Xbox 360 launch, because those three games are AWESOME displays of next-gen technology. :lol

 

[WordofGod]

The "journos" aren't the ones enabling MS in this situation; consumers who make blind-buy bundle reservations like you are.

This is why I will only buy consoles from Costco from now on. 1 Year return policy on opened systems.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

The "journos" aren't the ones enabling MS in this situation; consumers who make blind-buy bundle reservations like you are.

well, that's a valid point. though I'd like to think that they could make the situation a little better...we're inclined to pony up to buy their product before it's even available. The press could let me know as a consumer whether to stay in that line or not. And they won't, or can't, or whatever. And apparently this is the first launch where a company has done that for everything up for sale? That's sort of significant I'd think. It doesn't make me think that highly of MS.

Again, the whole thing isn't, "why won't they tell me whether to spend this money," or "I'm desperate for launch info," I just think it's unsavory that we have a specialty press devoted to those issues and they can't speak to it because their too connected to the product they cover. That's all.

If it's true, and alternately I seem to be a conspiracist or very naive for making an issue of it, then it's a shame. If it's not, good. I apologize.

Don't blame Microsoft though, blame the useless, dishonest shills that go along with this crap.

I'd blame them both.

 

[sonycowboy]

It wouldn't surprise me. But then again, I'm certain this kind of thing happens often.

It's still lame as shit, though. But gaming "journalism" isn't really anything like the word implies, so basically just GameFly everything

I do think there's a distiction that bears commentary here. If (and it's a big if), Microsoft is blocking ALL XBox 360 reviews, including ones they AREN'T PUBLISHING, then that's a load of bullcrap.

EA has 5-6 games, Activision has 4, and Take-Two has a couple. I don't think I've heard of a platform holder holding back reviews of games that aren't even theirs.

In any case, it just doesn't matter from a hype/sales perspective. They're going to sell every single HW unit they make this year and SW well sell quite well, as well.

I never said it died. But I expect the charts (top 20?) to be lined with X360 titles for November and December.

Does anybody not?

:lol :lol :lol

Lining the top 20?? :lol

I think they'll be lucky to have more than 2-3 titles in the top 20. What about

Madden, NFSU, Gun, SOCOM 3, Star Wars Battlefront 2, Battlefield 2, True Crime, Half-Life 2, Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs, Resident Evil 4, Matrix: Path of Neo, Dragon Quest VIII, WWE: Smackdown, Shadow the Hedgehog, King Kong, Prince of Persia, Mario Party 7, Shadow the Hedgehog, GTA: LCS, TH:AW, Soul Calibur 3, and a crapload of GBA games that always sell well?

I think you're understanding of game sales volumes in November and December are pretty out of whack if you actually expect to see "But I expect the charts (top 20?) to be lined with X360 titles for November and December."

 

[Polari]

Gaming journalism is a total fucking joke. Ethics appear to be as rare in the industry as good writing.

You're not supposed to be working with the company you're reporting on, you're supposed to be working against them, finding out what they don't want you to know, rather than reporting on what they spoon-feed you. You're there to serve your customers, the public, because without them you'd have nothing bar a couple of "Parappa the Rapper" trinkets.

Don't blame Microsoft though, blame the useless, dishonest shills that go along with this crap.

 

[Kobun Heat]

It's been said before, but you seem to still be fixated on this, so I'll give it a shot:

Publications agree to follow coverage embargoes in return for getting the early builds. It's a condition of getting the product in the first place. If they didn't stick to the embargoes, the publishers just wouldn't send them the early code and they'd be out in line buying the games on launch day with everybody else.

Pre-launch reviews don't magically appear out of thin air; how do you think they get the games in the first place?