Support NeoGAF

[studyguy]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-...uction-of-justice-probe-to-mueller-1504207495
(Pastebin for those who can't see the WSJ)

WASHINGTON—Lawyers for Donald Trump have met several times with special counsel Robert Mueller in recent months and submitted memos arguing that the president didn't obstruct justice by firing former FBI chief James Comey and calling into question Mr. Comey's reliability as a potential witness, people familiar with the matter said.

One memo submitted to Mr. Mueller by the president's legal team in June laid out the case that Mr. Trump has the inherent authority under the constitution to hire and fire as he sees fit and therefore didn't obstruct justice when he fired Mr. Comey as director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in May, these people said.

Another memo submitted the same month outlined why they believe Mr. Comey would make an witness, calling him prone to exaggeration, unreliable in congressional testimony and the source of leaks to the news media, these people said.

Apparently this is the actual article Wittes was talking about. Trump lawyers all but confirming that they'll absolutely have to defend him against obstruction of justice now.

 

[NealMcCauley]

I'm no expert but those arguments seem flimsy.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I'm no expert but those arguments seem flimsy.

I mean... Nixon didn't get away with it so...

 

[plagiarize]

I'm no expert but those arguments seem flimsy.

Right. Being an at will employer, doesn't give you carte blanche to fire someone if, say, they turn down your sexual advances.

 

[KHarvey16]

This is apparently the second of two stories Wittes hinted at. The cannons never lie.

 

[Random Human]

I guess the bombshell here is a) Mueller is clearly going after Trump for obstruction and b) his defence seems dumb? I dunno.

 

[Lord Fagan]

At least they're getting paid top dollar for this amateur hour bullshit.

Fleece that orange traitor for every last dime possible.

 

[Loudninja]

>_> that's your defense?

One memo submitted to Mr. Mueller by the president’s legal team in June laid out the case that Mr. Trump has the inherent authority under the constitution to hire and fire as he sees fit and therefore didn’t obstruct justice when he fired Mr. Comey as director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in May, these people said.

 

[serenewarfare]

Right. Being an at will employer, doesn't give you carte blanche to fire someone if, say, they turn down your sexual advances.

Exactly. Like, Trump had the legal right to fire Comey. No one is arguing that. It's his motivations that are in question and could get him in trouble. Unless I am misunderstanding how Obstruction works.

 

[jstripes]

One memo submitted to Mr. Mueller by the president’s legal team in June laid out the case that Mr. Trump has the inherent authority under the constitution to hire and fire as he sees fit and therefore didn’t obstruct justice when he fired Mr. Comey as director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in May, these people said.

"Come on man, just because Trump was obstructing justice by firing Comey doesn't mean he's guilty of obstruction of justice. He's president. He can do what he wants."

 

[Guevara]

Seems like something we could have reasonably extrapolated anyway. This is part of the job of a defense attorney.

 

[studyguy]

I'm no expert but those arguments seem flimsy.

One of them boils down to:
Who are you gonna believe, a well respected, straight laced former head of the FBI or POTUS. Which I mean....

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Right. Being an at will employer, doesn't give you carte blanche to fire someone if, say, they turn down your sexual advances.

Reasonable odds Comey did that, too.

Friggin Donald Trump.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

>_> that's your defense?

He fired him because he can. Sure there were other reasons, but he can. That's what matters. He can. Who cares why... That'll never work 😂

 

[shira]

At least they're getting paid top dollar for this amateur hour bullshit.

Fleece that orange traitor for every last dime possible.

Lul is Trump paying his own legal fees???

 

[plagiarize]

Reasonable odds Comey did that, too.

Friggin Donald Trump.

Or not frigging him, as it were.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

I mean... Nixon didn't get away with it so...

Nixon was pardoned.

 

[smokeymicpot]

This is apparently the second of two stories Wittes hinted at. The cannons never lie.

Picture had three I think.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Aren't these the exact talking points that Trump and his ilk (Hannity, etc) have been saying publicly for months?

This is all they have? "I can fire him whenever I want, so I did? Plus, he's a leaker!"

The King can do as he likes! didn't work out so well for Joffrey.

 

[RDreamer]

Fucking lol

You know they ain't got squat when that is their defense.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Nixon was pardoned.

The argument didn't work. What Ford did has nothing to do with whether or not it was an argument that held merit or was a reasonable defense

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Or not frigging him, as it were.

Indeed.

 

[Ponn]

"My client didn't do these things you are not charging him with or accusing him of yet." *smiles*

 

[gutter_trash]

no matter what the President is allowed or not allowed to do, it's the cover-up that makes everything worse for him

 

[WaterAstro]

It's like if Trump was making these arguments himself.

 

[5taquitos]

This is apparently the second of two stories Wittes hinted at. The cannons never lie.

This is good, but hardly seems boom-worthy. Of course they're going to be preparing defenses. I was kinda hoping the second story would be a bit more dramatic, but I could be missing what's so big about this one.

 

[Mulberry]

I heard the other day a good example of how to characterize Obstruction of Justice.

It's not illegal to shred paper, but if you do it to hide a crime that is Obstruction of Justice.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

The argument didn't work. What Ford did has nothing to do with whether or not it was an argument that held merit or was a reasonable defense

The argument didn't matter. He was never convicted.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

This is good, but hardly seems boom-worthy. Of course they're going to be preparing defenses. I was kinda hoping the second story would be a bit more dramatic, but I could be missing what's so big about this one.

Already engaging in discussions with the special counsel though. The legal team is actively fighting charges that haven't come yet. Why? Because they're coming. The boom is that the president will ultimately be charged. IMO at least

 

[KHarvey16]

Picture had three I think.

Only saw two but I looked quick.

This is good, but hardly seems boom-worthy. Of course they're going to be preparing defenses. I was kinda hoping the second story would be a bit more dramatic, but I could be missing what's so big about this one.

It's big because it confirms the stories about Mueller pursuing obstruction but also big because it shows their defense is laughably bad.

 

[Linkura]

...Right...

 

[Maiden Voyage]

It almost reads as if Trump asked his lawyers to approach Mueller on why obstruction was not observed. They initiated discussion to try to dissuade the investigation for obstruction. Would lawyers normally do that?

 

[Wet Bloodfart]

There is such thing as context that surround a president's actions. He has the legal authority to do a lot of shit – but does his authority and actions make sense within the context of a groundbreaking investigation in which he himself is at the center of?

This is going to be a legal battle. Trump could've avoided ALL OF THIS if he would have just left Comey alone or fired him immediately upon his inauguration.

 

[smokeymicpot]

Only saw two but I looked quick.



It's big because it confirms the stories about Mueller pursuing obstruction but also big because it shows their defense is laughably bad.

It's two some reason thought there was three.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

The argument didn't matter. He was never convicted.

Pedantry

In political terms, he didn't get away with it.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Those are their arguments? Psssshhhhh GOOD LUCK

 

[LegendofLex]

I should become one of Trump's lawyers. I'm clearly qualified.

 

[5taquitos]

I should become one of Trump's lawyers. I'm clearly qualified.

What's your daily coke intake?

Pre-reqs are probably an eight ball per day, minimum.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think Trump is going to attempt to pardon himself, which will be a hilarious shitshow.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

So uh...

Not only are they moving forward on obstruction, but the defense of it is Nixon bad.

Yikes.

 

[Chojin]

I'm surprised "Guiiiise, he's new at this" wasn't submitted as a defense.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

I was hoping for "mental illness" or "confusion."

 

[Schucky Ducky]

I think Trump is going to attempt to pardon himself, which will be a hilarious shitshow.

I'd love to the spin they would try if he tried to do something that stupid hahaha.

 

[Foffy]

I was hoping for "mental illness" or "confusion."

Trump's ego is too big to even entertain that as an option, even if we can argue there is some truth there.

 

[CopperPuppy]

I'm no expert but those arguments seem flimsy.

With the caveat of not having seen the memoranda and reviewed the law cited therein: these are arguments are indeed flimsy.

 

[Shard]

I think Trump is going to attempt to pardon himself, which will be a hilarious shitshow.

That would go to the Supreme Court.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

How is "HE LEAKED TO THE MEDIA" an argument to stop Comey from being a witness exactly?

 

[JustenP88]

Those arguments are "just keep it to yourself and avoid the embarrassment" bad.

 

[Akuun]

This is just as laughable as his doctor's note.

Mr. Trump has the inherent authority under the constitution to hire and fire as he sees fit and therefore didn’t obstruct justice when he fired Mr. Comey as director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in May

So... "Trump can do whatever he wants because he's Trump"?

they believe Mr. Comey would make an witness, calling him prone to exaggeration, unreliable in congressional testimony and the source of leaks to the news media

"You say that Trump is a loud, raving, completely incoherent and pathologically lying moron who leaks information? Well, Comey is too! So Trump is the best! Nyah!"

 

[Nafai1123]

So what's their argument for Trump saying he fired Comey because of Russia? Are Trumps statements unreliable as well?