Support NeoGAF

[Dev1lXYZ]

President Trump on Wednesday signed an executive order to allow children to stay with parents caught crossing the border illegally -- moving to stop the family separations that have triggered a national outcry and political crisis for Republicans.
The measure would allow children to stay in detention with parents for an extended period of time. This comes as congressional Republicans scramble to draft legislation to address the same issue, but face challenges mustering the votes.
In signing the measure, Trump said he wants to keep families together while also enforcing border security. He vowed his administration's "zero tolerance" policy for illegal immigration would continue.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...der-to-stop-family-separations-at-border.html

There goes the weekly outrage

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Somehow this will be spun as "not enough", just like with the N. Korea summit.

 

[natjjohn]

Forgot to share that he started this, said there was nothing he could to stop his own directive, and he finally 180ed when only a small subsection of folks were buying into his lies.

Also, shouldn’t you be upset at this as your were defending it aggressively.

 

[HarryKS]

Forgot to share that he started this, said there was nothing he could to stop his own directive, and he finally 180ed when only a small subsection of folks were buying into his lies.

Also, shouldn’t you be upset at this as your were defending it aggressively.

You should pose as a candidate for the next general elections.

 

[Dev1lXYZ]

Also, shouldn’t you be upset at this as your were defending it aggressively.

I was defending border control and the laws associated. I could care less about the kids being separated part.

 

[WaterAstro]

So Trump and his administration started this, then Trump makes an order to stop it. lol this guy is whacked.

He'll probably say the dems forced him to do it, and that he's a hero.

 

[HStallion]

So he signed a nebulous executive order to curb a policy his own administration enacted that just means that families can be indefinitely imprisoned? Some of you are applauding this?

Not too mention the fact that his entire executive order doesn't solve the situation and in fact just exacerbates things. You can indefinitely detain adults but you can't separate kids from them but you can only detain children for 20 days. This does not work.

 

[LegendOfKage]

So he signed a nebulous executive order to curb a policy his own administration enacted that just means that families can be indefinitely imprisoned? Some of you are applauding this?

Not too mention the fact that his entire executive order doesn't solve the situation and in fact just exacerbates things. You can indefinitely detain adults but you can't separate kids from them but you can only detain children for 20 days. This does not work.

Could that be what Trump meant when he said this couldn't be fixed with an executive order? Basically, this just means an actual law needs to happen in the next 20 days?

Either way, I'm glad it's stopped for now.

 

[NahaNago]

I wasn't expecting this for at least another week or 2.

 

[Panda1]

So how many kids did he kill in these concentration camps before he was forced to sign the order ?

 

[Vicetrailia]

About time he fixed his own shit.

 

[7he Talon]

This is good news, but I hope the media doesn't just move on and allow people to forget this. People need to be held accountable in November.

 

[dragonfart28]

With the amount of flip flops this guy has delivered, he's become a massive disappointment for his voters.

 

[pramod]

This fixes nothing, it will be challenged in court, and Trump is not going to go back to "Catch and Release".

We're still at an impasse.

 

[JCK75]

So Trump and his administration started this, then Trump makes an order to stop it. lol this guy is whacked.

He'll probably say the dems forced him to do it, and that he's a hero.

https://www.montaglaw.com/2016/08/21/flores-v-lynch-example-risks-winning-case/

As much as I dislike Trump, the media is a complete piece of @#$% and this is seriously egregious reporting, they kept silent about it while it was going on until they could use it as a club against Trump. The Democrats are behind every piece of this (it's an unintended consequence of poorly thought out policies of the past, put into full effect by the most liberal court in the entire nation)

 

[HStallion]

https://www.montaglaw.com/2016/08/21/flores-v-lynch-example-risks-winning-case/

As much as I dislike Trump, the media is a complete piece of @#$% and this is seriously egregious reporting, they kept silent about it while it was going on until they could use it as a club against Trump. The Democrats are behind every piece of this (it's an unintended consequence of poorly thought out policies of the past, put into full effect by the most liberal court in the entire nation)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-law-separate-families-passed-1997/

 

[Kittehkraken]

About time he fixed his own shit.

Nothing is fixed.

Kids are still crossing the border illegally in huge numbers without parents or guardians. Only a fraction of the children in these facilities were actually separated after crossing. As usual, the media has everyone chasing up the wrong fucking tree.

Immigration is a fucking shit show, and it ain't Trumps fault. Everyone seems to be content with throwing shit at the walls and hoping something sticks instead of actually fixing the issues.

 

[Panda1]

Trump is such an idiot - Hilary and Obama have already told us the solution 10 years ago

 

[Dev1lXYZ]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-law-separate-families-passed-1997/

Snopes is not exactly a legit source

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevl...fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/#433fd9f7227f

 

[zelo-ca]

Could that be what Trump meant when he said this couldn't be fixed with an executive order? Basically, this just means an actual law needs to happen in the next 20 days?

Either way, I'm glad it's stopped for now.

In the order is an appeal to the 9th district court about the 20 day rule so we will see what happens with it.

 

[zelo-ca]

Trump is such an idiot - Hilary and Obama have already told us the solution 10 years ago

The solution is to have better immigration policy which probably will never pass. This is gonna be a problem for the whole Trump presidency and probably the next person to follow him.

 

[HStallion]

Snopes is not exactly a legit source

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevl...fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/#433fd9f7227f

Well I'd love to hear how they're incorrect.

 

[Dev1lXYZ]

Trump is such an idiot - Hilary and Obama have already told us the solution 10 years ago

Ironically, it says the uploader did not make the video watchable in my country.

 

[HStallion]

Nothing is fixed.

Kids are still crossing the border illegally in huge numbers without parents or guardians. Only a fraction of the children in these facilities were actually separated after crossing. As usual, the media has everyone chasing up the wrong fucking tree.

Immigration is a fucking shit show, and it ain't Trumps fault. Everyone seems to be content with throwing shit at the walls and hoping something sticks instead of actually fixing the issues.

I'd say this is very much Trump and his administrations fault and most specifically as an aspect of their "throwing shit at the wall" strategy. This isn't even the first time they've tried to use the children of illegal immigrants as bargaining chips as the fiasco around DACA is still quite fresh. They've been trying anything to get tough on immigration while also trying their best to strong arm some money for the wall.

 

[I_D]

Snopes is not exactly a legit source

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevl...fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/#433fd9f7227f

This Forbes article doesn't actually prove anything. We don't get to see the author's original emails, and only get to witness one response, so the context is completely lost. By the end of the article, even the author hasn't come to a conclusion on whether Snopes is legit or not: "Regardless of whether the Daily Mail article is correct in its claims about Snopes..."
It's essentially saying "It might be right, or it might be way wrong." That's not exactly a strong way to discredit a site. Though I do agree that complete faith in a website is moronic at worst, and ignorant at best.

https://www.montaglaw.com/2016/08/21/flores-v-lynch-example-risks-winning-case/

As much as I dislike Trump, the media is a complete piece of @#$% and this is seriously egregious reporting, they kept silent about it while it was going on until they could use it as a club against Trump. The Democrats are behind every piece of this (it's an unintended consequence of poorly thought out policies of the past, put into full effect by the most liberal court in the entire nation)

And posts like this completely miss the point. It's not your fault, though. Pretty much every politician and news source does this too.
Essentially what's happening is this:
Person 1: There are horrible things happening! We need to fix them!
Person 2: Yeah, but this has been going on for ages. Blame the other political party!
But what's missing is this:
Person 1: Who gives a shit who started it? Why don't you fix it?

In essence, your deflection of the issue by saying 'The Democrats are behind every piece of this" is missing the point entirely. What matters most is the present; not the past. It doesn't matter who started the issue. A good president would fix the issue, regardless of political affiliation.

I always find the deflections ironic. It's essentially admitting "the people I think are stupid and I totally disagree with made this" but also "yet I'm too stupid to come up with anything better, so I'll just point fingers."

 

[Kittehkraken]

I'd say this is very much Trump and his administrations fault and most specifically as an aspect of their "throwing shit at the wall" strategy. This isn't even the first time they've tried to use the children of illegal immigrants as bargaining chips as the fiasco around DACA is still quite fresh. They've been trying anything to get tough on immigration while also trying their best to strong arm some money for the wall.

At this point, I honestly don't give a rats ass who did what or said what. Work together and fix the fucking problem so this shit can stop happening:



The fact that is a reality for a child because people refuse to work together over petty nonsense, is pathetic.

 

[XAL]

At this point, I honestly don't give a rats ass who did what or said what. Work together and fix the fucking problem so this shit can stop happening:



The fact that is a reality for a child because people refuse to work together over petty nonsense, is pathetic.

Committing horrific acts to rile up the worst part of your base and use children's lives as a fucking extortion is not "people refuse to work together", it's one side being evil.
There is no "work together", the Tadmin just needs to stop doing this shit in the first place the entire fault and fix is on them.
All they do is throw grenades into the room and walk away, blaming the problem on democrats and "disloyal" republicans who occasionally show a conscience, and then swoop in later after much suffering and outrage to sort of not really "fix" the problem while maintaining it wasn't their fault.

 

[Kittehkraken]

Committing horrific acts to rile up the worst part of your base and use children's lives as a fucking extortion is not "people refuse to work together", it's one side being evil.
There is no "work together", the Tadmin just needs to stop doing this shit in the first place the entire fault and fix is on them.
All they do is throw grenades into the room and walk away, blaming the problem on democrats and "disloyal" republicans who occasionally show a conscience, and then swoop in later after much suffering and outrage to sort of not really "fix" the problem while maintaining it wasn't their fault.

So if Trump and his admin are the problem, why wasn't illegal immigration fixed long before there reign of terror ever started? Illegal immigration is not a new problem. It's almost like petty squabbling between political parties has been mucking up the works for some time.

Also, if you can't sit down and work with somebody because you disagree with what they've done or said, you shouldn't be politics. Period.

 

[rokkerkory]

Didn’t Trump and Nielson say that only change of law was the only way to keep families together? And yet all it took was Trump to sign an EO to revert his own policy?

 

[lefty1117]

At this point, I honestly don't give a rats ass who did what or said what. Work together and fix the fucking problem so this shit can stop happening:



The fact that is a reality for a child because people refuse to work together over petty nonsense, is pathetic.

No, it's important because this was a manufactured crisis for Trump to get border wall funding as part of a deal to stop it. This is why he kept pushing for legislation to end the practice, even though no legislation was needed - it's an enforcement issue, not a legal issue. And in the end when the blowback became hot enough he backed down and signed in executive order - and even that he didn't need to do, all he needed to do was call Jeff Sessions and tell him to stop enforcing it. But the Executive Order was written so that he can try to take some credit for solving the problem he created, and get moronic public statements of support like Ivanka put out tonight.

 

[Cato]

Committing horrific acts to rile up the worst part of your base and use children's lives as a fucking extortion is not "people refuse to work together", it's one side being evil.
There is no "work together", the Tadmin just needs to stop doing this shit in the first place the entire fault and fix is on them.
All they do is throw grenades into the room and walk away, blaming the problem on democrats and "disloyal" republicans who occasionally show a conscience, and then swoop in later after much suffering and outrage to sort of not really "fix" the problem while maintaining it wasn't their fault.

That is a very partisan and immature line of thinking and suggest that one cares more about political points than solving the real issue :-(.

Sometimes you need to set aside who did what and who is responsible and instead just sit down, talk, find common ground and find a solution.
Was this bad? Yes it was. Is anyone proud of this? I hope not.
Should everyone show a little humility, work with the other side and fix the legislation that allowed this to happen in the first place? Yes.

Lets hope the two parties in the Senate can show they are all adults and can work together in a non-partisan way to fix it once and for all.
(Fat chance, I know)

 

[lefty1117]

Didn’t Trump and Nielson say that only change of law was the only way to keep families together? And yet all it took was Trump to sign an EO to revert his own policy?

That is exactly right. They were trying to create public pressure on democrats in congress to sign to legislation, which of course would have included compromise funding for a border wall. But no legislation is needed. This is a sick, sick individual.

 

[WaterAstro]

https://www.montaglaw.com/2016/08/21/flores-v-lynch-example-risks-winning-case/

As much as I dislike Trump, the media is a complete piece of @#$% and this is seriously egregious reporting, they kept silent about it while it was going on until they could use it as a club against Trump. The Democrats are behind every piece of this (it's an unintended consequence of poorly thought out policies of the past, put into full effect by the most liberal court in the entire nation)

You're a Trump supporter if you believe Trump. There is no law about separating child from parents. The Trump administration made it up.

Are dems responsible for lack of immigration laws in the previous administration? (even though partisanship crippled the gov't) Yeah, you could say that, but nowhere did they have child separating parent anywhere at anytime.

 

[lefty1117]

That is a very partisan and immature line of thinking and suggest that one cares more about political points than solving the real issue :-(.

Sometimes you need to set aside who did what and who is responsible and instead just sit down, talk, find common ground and find a solution.
Was this bad? Yes it was. Is anyone proud of this? I hope not.
Should everyone show a little humility, work with the other side and fix the legislation that allowed this to happen in the first place? Yes.

Lets hope the two parties in the Senate can show they are all adults and can work together in a non-partisan way to fix it once and for all.
(Fat chance, I know)

No no NO for god's sake, NO!! You are legitimizing the behavior!! This is the problem - lie, lie, lie until people become tired of it and just want it to go away, and will compromise where no compromise was needed. People are falling for it. Keep your eyes open!!

 

[rokkerkory]

That is exactly right. They were trying to create public pressure on democrats in congress to sign to legislation, which of course would have included compromise funding for a border wall. But no legislation is needed. This is a sick, sick individual.

He is absolutely insane and not humane. Such a liar ass that got caught.

 

[Cato]

No no NO for god's sake, NO!! You are legitimizing the behavior!! This is the problem - lie, lie, lie until people become tired of it and just want it to go away, and will compromise where no compromise was needed. People are falling for it. Keep your eyes open!!

I don't think you understand the problem aside from that something bad happened.

Was what happened legal? Yes.
Should this be legal? No.

This is the whole problem. What happened at the border was legal. This is a problem.
Trumps ED will temporarily address this issue but it is not a long term solution.

The only way to fix this is to change the law so that this becomes illegal.
Only the Senate can do that.
Thus, if you want to have a proper fix, you need Dems and Reps in the Senate to show they are adults so that they can fix the bad law and replace it with something better.


Hyper partisan blame games will not solve this. Sorry.

 

[lefty1117]

I don't think you understand the problem aside from that something bad happened.

Was what happened legal? Yes.
Should this be legal? No.

This is the whole problem. What happened at the border was legal. This is a problem.
Trumps ED will temporarily address this issue but it is not a long term solution.

The only way to fix this is to change the law so that this becomes illegal.
Only the Senate can do that.
Thus, if you want to have a proper fix, you need Dems and Reps in the Senate to show they are adults so that they can fix the bad law and replace it with something better.


Hyper partisan blame games will not solve this. Sorry.

And in turn I think you have completely missed the point that, legal or not, Trump chose to enforce this law in order to get something that he wants. You think you are being clinical and logical in your approach - and surely immigration reform is needed, I'm not debating that - but you are missing the fact that Trump has created this situation for leverage, though thankfully it seems to have backfired. You also seem to miss some of the subtleties here. An ED was not needed to stop this. No ED was signed to enforce this in May. Trump simply directed Jeff Sessions to enforce the law, and Jeff Sessions made the announcement and implemented in his department. Trump simply could have directed Jeff Sessions to stop, as multiple presidents before him had done. The ED is theatrics. We can't allow this behavior to become the normal course of business. As bad as Congress has been over the last few years, this is on another level.

 

[Dev1lXYZ]

I’m going to be the first one in the whole thread to say it, but I am happy that the kids no longer have to be taken away from their families. Of course, we will have to ensure that they are actually related to the adult(s) they came across the border in the company of, but we have to keep them safe from predators. This is a victory for the children! Que the music...this ones for the childrennnnn- the children of the woooorld. Feel free to join me....this one’s for the childrennnnn. Who am I kidding no one gives a fuck about the children beyond using them as a weapon against Trump, not any of you, not the media, not politicians. Next week it’ll be a new talking point so Trump can continue to live in all of your heads rent free and those poor kids will be a talking point that will join muh Russia, muh collusion, muh obstruction, and muh Stormy. It’s depressing, really.

 

[Panda1]

I’m going to be the first one in the whole thread to say it, but I am happy that the kids no longer have to be taken away from their families. Of course, we will have to ensure that they are actually related to the adult(s) they came across the border in the company of, but we have to keep them safe from predators. This is a victory for the children! Que the music...this ones for the childrennnnn- the children of the woooorld. Feel free to join me....this one’s for the childrennnnn. Who am I kidding no one gives a fuck about the children beyond using them as a weapon against Trump, not any of you, not the media, not politicians. Next week it’ll be a new talking point so Trump can continue to live in all of your heads rent free and those poor kids will be a talking point that will join muh Russia, muh collusion, muh obstruction, and muh Stormy. It’s depressing, really.

 

[JCK75]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-law-separate-families-passed-1997/

But there is a law that says Children cannot be detained for more than 20 days, the parents are under arrest and we were keeping kids with families in detainment, The last lawsuit in 2016 resulted in that and kids have been separated from their parents ever since and there will be another lawsuit reversing this because nobody will stand for children being in detainment. The left wants catch and release which is not a solution, Trumps Exec order is only a temporary solution and puts us right back where we started.

I'd say this is very much Trump and his administrations fault and most specifically as an aspect of their "throwing shit at the wall" strategy. This isn't even the first time they've tried to use the children of illegal immigrants as bargaining chips as the fiasco around DACA is still quite fresh. They've been trying anything to get tough on immigration while also trying their best to strong arm some money for the wall.

Well that would make you wrong on two counts.
I don't listen to a word Trump says, I come to my conclusions on actually looking at the laws and applying logic and reason rather than pure emotion, the media manipulates you (and by media I mean ALL media not just CNN or Fox News).

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/393069-schumer-rejects-gop-proposal-to-address-border-crisis

Schumer very clearly shows in that speech what this is all about, it's not about a solution it's about hammering Trump, it's politics I get it.. but people who actually believe the Rhetoric and get riled up because of it are foolish.

 

[HStallion]

So if Trump and his admin are the problem, why wasn't illegal immigration fixed long before there reign of terror ever started? Illegal immigration is not a new problem. It's almost like petty squabbling between political parties has been mucking up the works for some time.

Also, if you can't sit down and work with somebody because you disagree with what they've done or said, you shouldn't be politics. Period.

The GOP control the legislative and the executive branches and will till at least midterms. Why didn't they do something constructive and pass some laws instead of enacting this horrible policy and then trying to blame everyone else when it backfired on them big time?

 

[HStallion]

But there is a law that says Children cannot be detained for more than 20 days, the parents are under arrest and we were keeping kids with families in detainment, The last lawsuit in 2016 resulted in that and kids have been separated from their parents ever since and there will be another lawsuit reversing this because nobody will stand for children being in detainment. The left wants catch and release which is not a solution, Trumps Exec order is only a temporary solution and puts us right back where we started.




Well that would make you wrong on two counts.
I don't listen to a word Trump says, I come to my conclusions on actually looking at the laws and applying logic and reason rather than pure emotion, the media manipulates you (and by media I mean ALL media not just CNN or Fox News).

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/393069-schumer-rejects-gop-proposal-to-address-border-crisis

Schumer very clearly shows in that speech what this is all about, it's not about a solution it's about hammering Trump, it's politics I get it.. but people who actually believe the Rhetoric and get riled up because of it are foolish.

Trump started this whole debacle after his many other failed attempts at getting the funding for his wall. The White House has been fairly blunt about this. Schumer is responding to a problem that Trump and his cronies created for themselves and are now trying to pass the buck after this blew up in their faces. He isn't obliged to just slap his signature on some solution that will be rail roaded through and might cause even worse problems as Trump and the GOP scramble to clean up their mess in a slap dash matter. They wouldn't be back pedaling this hard this fast if they thought they could ride this out or use it to their advantage

 

[BruceCLea]

Hopefully Trump will choke and die on a Starburst

 

[cryptoadam]

Wondering what is the issue with building a Wall between US and Mexico outside of cost?

 

[Kittehkraken]

The GOP control the legislative and the executive branches and will till at least midterms. Why didn't they do something constructive and pass some laws instead of enacting this horrible policy and then trying to blame everyone else when it backfired on them big time?

Because the Republicans are just as fucking useless as the Democrats. The entire system is broken and has been for some time.

 

[rokkerkory]

Reports that Pentagon has asked for room for 20000 immigrant kids to be hosted on military bases soon. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ren-on-military-bases/?utm_term=.f7afac0de30b

 

[Kittehkraken]

Reports that Pentagon has asked for room for 20000 immigrant kids to be hosted on military bases soon. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ren-on-military-bases/?utm_term=.f7afac0de30b

20,000 immigrant kids who crossed without a parent or guardian. Bit of context in case some people don't actually read the article.

 

[Tumle]

So how many kids did he kill in these concentration camps before he was forced to sign the order ?

If you can’t see the inhumane situation these kids and there parents where put in (illigal boarder crossing or not).. your ability to feel empathy must be really low..
It doesn’t take murder to be a fucking appalling legislation..

Great that trump signed the order now let’s see if it does anything in practice..

 

[Future]

This Forbes article doesn't actually prove anything. We don't get to see the author's original emails, and only get to witness one response, so the context is completely lost. By the end of the article, even the author hasn't come to a conclusion on whether Snopes is legit or not: "Regardless of whether the Daily Mail article is correct in its claims about Snopes..."
It's essentially saying "It might be right, or it might be way wrong." That's not exactly a strong way to discredit a site. Though I do agree that complete faith in a website is moronic at worst, and ignorant at best.



And posts like this completely miss the point. It's not your fault, though. Pretty much every politician and news source does this too.
Essentially what's happening is this:
Person 1: There are horrible things happening! We need to fix them!
Person 2: Yeah, but this has been going on for ages. Blame the other political party!
But what's missing is this:
Person 1: Who gives a shit who started it? Why don't you fix it?

In essence, your deflection of the issue by saying 'The Democrats are behind every piece of this" is missing the point entirely. What matters most is the present; not the past. It doesn't matter who started the issue. A good president would fix the issue, regardless of political affiliation.

I always find the deflections ironic. It's essentially admitting "the people I think are stupid and I totally disagree with made this" but also "yet I'm too stupid to come up with anything better, so I'll just point fingers."

This is every political argument. What about...! They started it!

It’s playground games and trollish discussion

 

[EviLore]

I’m going to be the first one in the whole thread to say it, but I am happy that the kids no longer have to be taken away from their families. Of course, we will have to ensure that they are actually related to the adult(s) they came across the border in the company of, but we have to keep them safe from predators. This is a victory for the children! Que the music...this ones for the childrennnnn- the children of the woooorld. Feel free to join me....this one’s for the childrennnnn. Who am I kidding no one gives a fuck about the children beyond using them as a weapon against Trump, not any of you, not the media, not politicians. Next week it’ll be a new talking point so Trump can continue to live in all of your heads rent free and those poor kids will be a talking point that will join muh Russia, muh collusion, muh obstruction, and muh Stormy. It’s depressing, really.

I'm becoming largely apolitical since everything's a 24/7 broken record game of stupidity, so "seems like things got less shitty than they were yesterday as far as policy? thumbs up?" is about it from here, yeah. The rest is noise about assigning blame blindly according to your team and turning the people this policy affects into superficial political pawns to either victimize or demonize according to your agenda. No. They're human beings with complex motives that are individual to each family, and the children involved are not making any of the decisions either way; stop dehumanizing people into victims OR Othering them as scary criminal invaders. Try actually thinking of everyone as a fellow human being for a change -- they are -- and go from there.