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[Can Crusher]

Don't worry, MS will just add more servers. More servers = more cloud transistors = more hardware power = Better yields = cheaper hardware OMG this is good news!

 

[Dead Prince]

probably the whole PS Meeting part

laughingkaz.gif

 

[MikeE21286]

No. That didn't matter, it was the fact that Sony were ready to reveal early and go hard for 2013.

probably the whole PS Meeting part

Hmm....so MS was really targeting 2014 then?

Wow, that is no good.

 

[daveo42]

Well there ya go. The 8GB DDR5 may be the "caught off guard" part?

Pretty much, seeing as how most of the PS4 devs were also caught off guard by the announcement. Most were going with 4GB in the release console. Primary example is KZ: SF running on 3GB when it was announced in February.

probably the whole PS Meeting part

This as well. You'd think MS would have been on point for getting their shit together way in advance instead of having to rush to get out the door.

 

[Freki]

I am not so sure about this. At least, PS4 and XBone seem to be on par with regards to CPU power and size of memory (although PS4 has more memory dedicated to games, but XBone still has plenty). XBone might get inferior drawing distances but world size and AI should suffer that much.

Sadly this seems to be not the case - 3 of the 8GB DDR3 are reserved for OS tasks which leaves the Xbox one with 5GB for gaming purposes.
For PS4 the amount of RAM needed for OS purposes is rumored to be 512mb...

 

[Barack Lesnar]

The only one that can save them, the one who should have been helming the entire division, the one that got them to where they wanted to be

...the hero they don't deserve.

 

[badb0y]

Despite being an MS hater, this is not good at all. Who's stopping devs from making multiplats optimized for the XBone and porting them to the PS4 without any optimization? If they don't make use of that extra power, what's the point?

The similarity in architecture between PS3, Xbox One, and PC means that games ported over don't really need much optimization to perform well.

 

[darkwing]

If the Xbox One is much cheaper than the PS4 perhaps this will happen.

with Kinect 2.0? unlikely

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I'm at a loss of how they thought that 2013 would not be the time to launch? I'm curious to think how long they thought they could ride the 360 out? Till 2015? That makes no sense.

 

[i-Lo]

Correction: Gameplay>graphics, except when those graphics are a skybox based on complex atmospheric equations solved in the cloud.

Of course. Ms said that with the power of cloud it's like having three xbones instead of one or was it 3 in cloud and one local?

Either way PS4 is weaker console.

 

[badcrumble]

The Xbone and the PS4 have roughly the same actual silicon budget, yes? So the consoles are likely to have very little in the way of a cost discrepancy, outside of how much each one is willing to subsidize it?

 

[Gorillaz]

CoD is huge, but it's not the "next big thing". This happens every generation. Previous huge franchises stay huge( for a time ), but they aren't the driver of hardware sales they once were. Whichever platform grabs the "next big thing" in gaming will be the one who succeeds first.

Which is why I don't get why they didn't just get Destiny exclusive. Can't see CoD being "that series" next gen. There has to be a new king of the hill.

 

[ascii42]

If the Xbox One is much cheaper than the PS4 perhaps this will happen.

Unfortunately there isn't really any indication that this will be the case. Especially since it comes with Kinect.

 

[AOC83]

If the Xbox One is much cheaper than the PS4 perhaps this will happen.

The PS2 wasn´t the cheapest, it was the best ( hard and software combined of course).
The Xbone is an abomination.

 

[bigboss370]

No, they have separate cocks that can be modified at wish. Heck, they have separate power saving frequencies [CPU will not always work @ full speed, GPU also].

what? >_>


---------


also, Sony was damn lucky (or they made a really smart choice) getting a certifiable genius being the architect of their system.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

In terms of the mass market MS could still be in a better position then sony

they have kinect built in, the X1 could be the wii of this gen but it would be like if the wii had 512mb of slower then 360 ram, a GPU with half the flops but the same architecture.

and a 800-900flop DX11 GPU with 5GB+32mb esram is not going to produce games that makes gamers rip out there eyes and smash the screen in disgust

that hardware will still be able to produce games that look a lot better then we have now.

You are forgetting the price. X1 will cost about the same as PS4, maybe even a little bit more. To be as successful as the Wii they must launch at the same price, but I don't think they can do that.

 

[Syphon Filter]

I'm at a loss of how they thought that 2013 would not be the time to launch? I'm curious to think how long they thought they could ride the 360 out? Till 2015? That makes no sense.

Resting on laurels and underestimating sony. Same mistake Sony made.

 

[DieH@rd]

have you noticed how geoff keighley and cboat are never in the same place at the same time?

 

[Latvian Hitman]

May be a stupid question, but if a constrained launch supply is the biggest problem that these poor yields will lead to, assuming that they don't downclock, is this really that terrible a thing for them? Couldn't they just as quickly spin a thin supply as artificially high demand as they sort it out, it's not exactly a new practice.

There's some truth to this, but there's a flip side to it as well. If Sony doesn't have similar supply issues with PS4, and they're just flying off the shelves through holiday 2013 at a 2 or 3 to 1 ratio versus the Xbone, that's going to be trouble. Ask any platform holder what they'd rather have: sales or spin.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

GPU is fine for the title. I mean technically its an APU which includes the CPU/GPU and eSRAM, and is the part they're having yield problems with so that's what they'll be downclocking.

However while technically that's true they could possibly change some APU settings so that only the GPU ends up slower. So considering at the moment we've only heard of a GPU downclock I'd say "GPU" is best to use in the title as its going to be clearer and easier to understand for most of GAF

From what I understand, if they change the GPU clock in an APU set up that affects the CPU too. TheCPU would be downclocked too. They have to be multiples of each other.(or the GPU is set up to be a 2x multiplier)

800/1600mhz for example. If the the GPU is dc to 700, than the CPU would decrease to 1400mhz. So XBone would have a CPU disadvantage as well.

Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Gestault]

Serious question: why is the confirmation post written like the person was drunk and riding a train? Were they drunk and riding a train?

 

[RedNumberFive]

Serious question: why is the confirmation post written like the person was drunk and riding a train? Were they drunk and riding a train?

Doesn't want to be recognized by writing style.

 

[demosthenes]

Serious question: why is the confirmation post written like the person was drunk and riding a train? Were they drunk and riding a train?

Did you read anything else in the thread besides that?

It's how he has always posted, most likely for:
1) Not being able to be quoted
2) Not be able to be searched

 

[ascii42]

Serious question: why is the confirmation post written like the person was drunk and riding a train? Were they drunk and riding a train?

Makes it harder to be found by searching, and other websites and blogs aren't likely to quote it.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Hmm....so MS was really targeting 2014 then?

I thought the rumors were originally pointing to 2012. Then that was quickly nixed.

Anyways, Semi-Accurate ran an article in September 2012 about the horrible yields MS was having and how they'd have to fix things to hit their targeted September 2013 release date. So this has been the target for a while. Maybe they relaxed, a bit, when they thought Sony was going 2014. And figured they didn't need to rush to fix the problem since they still had an extra year.

I don't buy it too much, though, because it still seems like a problem you'd want to figure out sooner rather than later. Since it had to be solved regardless. And putting emphasis on it gave you more leeway if your answers were wrong.

 

[demosthenes]

With all this info coming out, I think it leads more evidence to MS throwing a lot of money to lock up stuff like LoL and other games rumored about recently.

 

[EagleEyes]

I'm at a loss of how they thought that 2013 would not be the time to launch? I'm curious to think how long they thought they could ride the 360 out? Till 2015? That makes no sense.

Yeah thats what gets me too. What the heck has Microsoft been doing these last couple of years? But if CBOAT is right then it really was a failure in leadership which means Mattrick and Ballmer.

 

[flash ban]

You'll have to show me where as I never saw it.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one/

" A single 28-nanometer chip contains an integrated CPU, GPU, and embedded memory rather than three separate units crammed onto a 90-nm chip in the 360."

originally that said 40nm, I saw it myself.

extremetech also had microsoft saying 40nm.

(Updated: The latest information seems to be that Microsoft got it wrong, and that it is in fact a 28nm SoC, just like Kabini.)-link

Did microsoft truly get it wrong, or are they now distorting the information to not look bad?

 

[Gorillaz]

Serious question: why is the confirmation post written like the person was drunk and riding a train? Were they drunk and riding a train?

Because MS and Sony are already reading and infiltrating Gaf along with there ninjas. He ain't trying to get caught-

 

[Wishmaster92]

Well there ya go. The 8GB DDR5 may be the "caught off guard" part?

Makes sense, it caught everybody off guard

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514454&page=73

even developers.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I'm not sure how MS could pull off some pricing stunt when it doesn't seem that Xbone is actually going to be cheaper to manufacture. It's much weaker because it was poorly designed. And then there's Kinect. So, unless they push it with a large price subsidy, they won't be able to make it cheaper than the PS4.

 

[M.D]

have you noticed how geoff keighley and cboat are never in the same place at the same time?

... and you'd think Geoff would be one of the few people in the industry with so much info considering how well connected he is

;o

 

[Playsation_]

But will the gaming media catch on?

 

[visionarysellout]

The only one that can save them, the one who should have been helming the entire division, the one that got them to where they wanted to be

someone should make an official bring back J Allard thread. lol

i'm sure it's been done before, but it's just so clear now. lol

 

[ElTorro]

From what I understand, if they change the GPU clock in an APU set that affects the CPU too. There the CPU would be down locked too. They have to be multiples of each other.

No, I don't think that's the case. SoC units can be clocked independently.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

If the Xbox One is much cheaper than the PS4 perhaps this will happen.

PS2 success was due to a number of factors that don't meet the actual circumstances of both Xbone and PS4. For once releasing like one year sooner that it's actual (real) rivals.

Also being cheaper is unlikely, seeing that the console is stuck with Kinnect.

 

[Septimius]

Makes it harder to be found by searching, and other websites and blogs aren't likely to quote it.

Imaging his posts quoted on Polygon makes for a good laugh, though. It'd been the first time they actually post well researched gaming news, and they have a guy that writes like a "lolumad"-kid on Xbox Live as their source.

"No no, he really knows what he's saying, you guys!"

 

[Y2Kev]

My bet would be that they thought Sony would not go first as Sony could not afford to go first. Somehow Sony is still trying to, but whatever.

 

[Vanillalite]

Serious question: why is the confirmation post written like the person was drunk and riding a train? Were they drunk and riding a train?

People just talking about FLOPs a la CUs, a downclock means triangle set-up rate will be lower, it's fillrate will be lower. Just what a piece of shit.

I've thought this as well. From my understanding the whole APU would have to be reclocked accordingly to stay in balance, and this will effect a ton of stuff.

 

[quest]

Hmm....so MS was really targeting 2014 then?

Wow, that is no good.

If that was the case the whole team should be fired. With how fast this generation has been slowing down they had to figure sony would launch in fall 2013. Someone said we don't know shit about this industry but almost all of us could of told them last year Sony would launch in 2013. What they think sony would sit around doing nothing as sales completely tanked this generation.

 

[Perkel]

There's some truth to this, but there's a flip side to it as well. If Sony doesn't have similar supply issues with PS4, and they're just flying off the shelves through holiday 2013 at a 2 or 3 to 1 ratio versus the Xbone, that's going to be trouble. Ask any platform holder what they'd rather have: sales or spin.

Also Sony is lunching WORLDWIDE. We don't know if MS will do that too or they will do one region after another.

From what I understand, if they change the GPU clock in an APU set that affects the CPU too. There the CPU would be down locked too. They have to be multiples of each other.

800/1600mhz for example. If the the GPU is dc to 700, than the CPU would decrease to 1400mhz. So XBone would have a CPU disadvantage as well.

Can anyone confirm this?

Someone need to comment this.

 

[flyingmonkeywhoa]

If the Xbox One is much cheaper than the PS4 perhaps this will happen.

Maybe, but the PS2 didn't require an internet connection to play it..

 

[IonicSnake]

also, Sony was damn lucky (or they made a really smart choice) getting a certifiable genius being the architect of their system.

He actually pitched himself to be the lead architect. I'm very glad that Sony said yes and right now I think they are too.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

what i understand and i believe almost all us do too, is that MS trying to ride the same boat as ninty in 2006. civilians like to flail their limbs in front of the tv more than we can think of.

...But they can do that right now with the 360 for a lot less money.

Wii's success early in the current cycle was mostly due to a perfect storm of innovation and a low price point. I'm not seeing that with the Xbone.

 

[Can Crusher]

My bet would be that they thought Sony would not go first as Sony could not afford to go first. Somehow Sony is still trying to, but whatever.

I think they were caught with their pants down because they thought Sony was about to bend over with their rumored weak specs.

 

[AstroZombie]

Man, poor MS can't catch a break lol

Seriously E3 can't come soon enough. We'll really see what the console can do compared to the PS4.

Something tells me we'll see a lot of CG smoke and mirrors.

 

[PhatSaqs]

With all this info coming out, I think it leads more evidence to MS throwing a lot of money to lock up stuff like LoL and other games rumored about recently.

If things are as bad as some are making it seem though, no amount of money is acceptable by any smart business to associate itself with a seeming sinking ship. For this reason, I doubt a lot of this is as bad as it seems at the moment.

 

[seventynine]

Well, they've made a fist of this, haven't they.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Makes sense, it caught everybody off guard

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514454&page=73

even developers.

sogood

 

[McHuj]

Also Sony is lunching WORLDWIDE. We don't know if MS will do that too or they will do one region after another.




Someone need to comment this.

Just depends on how it was implemented. You can probably get some power/logic saving if the clocks are derived from one common one, but it doesn't have to be the case.