TSMC's N2 wafers will cost $30.000 - 66% higher cost than N3

winjer

winjer

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TSMC's 2nm wafer prices hit $30,000 as SRAM yields reportedly hit 90%

The Commercial Times reports that TSMC's upcoming N2 2nm semiconductors will cost $30,000 per wafer, a roughly 66% increase over the company's 3nm chips. Future nodes are...
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The Commercial Times reports that TSMC's upcoming N2 2nm semiconductors will cost $30,000 per wafer, a roughly 66% increase over the company's 3nm chips. Future nodes are expected to be even more expensive and likely reserved for the largest manufacturers.

TSMC has justified these price increases by citing the massive cost of building 2nm fabrication plants, which can reach up to $725 million. According to United Daily News, major players such as Apple, AMD, Qualcomm, Broadcom, and Nvidia are expected to place orders before the end of the year despite the higher prices, potentially bringing TSMC's 2nm Arizona fab to full capacity.
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Unsurprisingly, Apple is getting first dibs. The A20 processor in next year's iPhone 18 Pro is expected to be the first chip based on TSMC's N2 process. Intel's Nova Lake processors, targeting desktops and possibly high-end laptops, are also slated to use N2 and are expected to launch next year.

Earlier reports indicated that yield rates for TSMC's 2nm process reached 60% last year and have since improved. New data suggests that 256Mb SRAM yield rates now exceed 90%. Trial production is likely already underway, with mass production scheduled to begin later this year.
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FFS, GPU, CPU and console prices will are going to increase yet again.
Fuck this AI bubble.....

Bryan Cranston Reaction GIF
 
That is not good news for gaming at all. Next-gen Nvidia & AMD GPUs will probably even more expensive, and it seems likely now that PS6 will leverage 3nm instead of potentially 2nm due to the cost.
 
Maybe the constant begging for a PS6 will finally stop

People are naive if they think this tech boom is sustainable without a significant evolution of infrastructure, energy efficiency, and actual human utility. Innovation isn't just about shinier gadgets
 
The hardware race has more or less already concluded regardless. We're not witnessing any meaningful paradigm shifts in graphical/technical prowess anymore. Devs don't have the manpower or the desire to push boundaries. Publishers don't care. Gamers don't really care either since PS5/SeX performance is more than sufficient for most people. This is just the final nail in the coffin. All hope now is in machine learning upscaling algorithms that "cheat" their ways to high resolutions leaving more space for other processes.
 
It seems like keeping your hardware for a decade will be the new norm going forward, both because of prices and minimal actual improvements.
 
I have a PS5 and I have yet to play a current gen only game, so there is absolutely no rush for next-gen to come out...
 
winjer said:
30-40% lower power usage. And 15% higher transistor density.
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I think N2 is 25-30% lower power usage. People need to also keep in mind that this slightly offsets other costs like the size of the machine and cooling block required which can bring the manufacturing cost down a bit on a console.
 
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Fuck it, just give me performance(specs, including huge bandwith/vram pool for cards longevity and not crazy powerdraw- below 400W) that justify that crazy price and i will bite, 3080ti with its 12gigs of vram slowly getting long in the tooth already:
Aragorn-Lets-Do-This.gif
 
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price is … mehr but it should still allow for more Performance / dollar, Even if its just slightly. Price will drop once 1.5 or 1 comes along.

Crazy Jump. Lets gooo
 
Ar¢tos said:
I have a PS5 and I have yet to play a current gen only game, so there is absolutely no rush for next-gen to come out...
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I think earliest will be 2028.

PRO alongside a decent update to PSSR coming in 2026 should help extend this gen.
 
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Predictable.
Until Intel and Samsung get their shit together and are able to compete, the average person will be gradually priced out of next gen tech.
I stand by my words on the current gen duration thread, while TSMC are allowed to do whatever the fuck they please I genuinely do not believe next gen consoles can be affordable in the next 2-3 years or so. Even a 2030 next gen console still seems like it's going to be stupidly expensive due to the damn chips it needs...
Our best hope is that AMD manages to pull of some miracle software solutions to the problems that cheap hardware can't brute force through or else we might as well stay in the current gen for 15 years.
 
Zero competition and we are here. TSMC monopoly is also the reason why we low numbers of gaming GPUs.

It's bad and it's only gonna to get worse...
 
While it is a bit tricky to translate node in nM to transistor density it is not wrong to do calculations based on linearity in practice i.e., 3nM to 2nM gives a 33% increase in density.

That would mean that you pay more per transistor with the new node assuming similar yields. That is not great at all - and certainly not sustainable unless there are some other really good end-user advantages.
 
PS5 came out five years ago, I am playing PS5 Pro games on a new TV and they look great. I want for nothing. I know I am only one person but in prior generations, five year old hardware really struggled.

The hardware advancements are not what they used to be. Even these new nodes have smaller increases for massively greater cost. This trickles down. We used to get new GPUs every 12-18 months, now it is more like 24-36 months, people don't upgrade their PCs like they used to, phone annual upgrades are not what they used to be, it stands to reason that consoles won't be coming out every 6-7 years like they used to either.
 
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Elog said:
While it is a bit tricky to translate node in nM to transistor density it is not wrong to do calculations based on linearity in practice i.e., 3nM to 2nM gives a 33% increase in density.

That would mean that you pay more per transistor with the new node assuming similar yields. That is not great at all - and certainly not sustainable unless there are some other really good end-user advantages.
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The Chip is only Part of a product.
Overall it should be equal - slighty better Performance per dollar in a finished product.

But of course, that needs architectures etc that work and fit the new method as well.

The achievement that they can do it is bigger then the price shock for me. Were getting small. I expect a wall coming soon which will be very hard to advance from.

Probably 0.5 or something
 
HRK69 said:
Maybe the constant begging for a PS6 will finally stop

People are naive if they think this tech boom is sustainable without a significant evolution of infrastructure, energy efficiency, and actual human utility. Innovation isn't just about shinier gadgets
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They're just going to push everybody to the cloud for "innovation" and "evolution of infrastructure". Your local devices will be dumb and expensive and rely on cloud and AI to get things done instead of locally.

The price for hardware isn't going to be proportional to the 66% increase though hopefully. It's more likely that the jump in specs will decrease, with it density required, meaning the number of chips per wafer required is not as much as before especially with a new node and you get more chips per wafer. Hopefully it means that current gen machines get a revision late down the line too with less materials cost even if price doesn't drop/remains the same.
 
Zathalus said:
That is not good news for gaming at all. Next-gen Nvidia & AMD GPUs will probably even more expensive, and it seems likely now that PS6 will leverage 3nm instead of potentially 2nm due to the cost.
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Maybe we need to accept that we will be getting older tech in gaming shit while the latest and greatest will be reserved for big money items like Server/AI/Datacenter. But don't worry, the cost of making their core GPU designs be fabbable on older processes as well as new ones will be factored into the MSRP, so we will still get 20% more performance at 50% more cost.
 
Phew, I almost didn't make it to the thread before someone came in to support AI.
Guess some people are just trying to get ahead of the t-800's by showing early support

terminator GIF
 
I hope a Youtuber buys one of those Wafers and makes a video playing Frisbee Golf with it.
How many views would be needed to pay the $30,000?
 
Badly need Intel to get their shit together, but it doesn't seem likely anytime soon.

There's still things they can add to 3nm so I expect a TSMC N3S variant to release next year built on the N3X with 2nm not hitting high yields until 2027.
 
Guys we have projects already exceeding 300 million, staff of 500+, windows of 6+ years for a sequel. Just make existing tech more efficient with something like ML, focus on shortening dev times and budget. I think the industry would fare better for it.
 
Three said:
I think N2 is 25-30% lower power usage. People need to also keep in mind that this slightly offsets other costs like the size of the machine and cooling block required which can bring the manufacturing cost down a bit on a console.
Click to expand...

Regardless, these wafer costs are unprecedented.

Sony paid close to $7 - 9k per wafer for the launch PS4. This is over 3x the wafer cost.

At some point it stops making economic sense to build a console on the latest node unless you think you can sell a $900 box to a mass market.

Global Foundries, Samsung, and Intel all screwed the pooch and let TSMC run too far ahead. Now they have no competition and they're just price gouging for all their worth.
 
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Spyxos said:
At these prices, soon nobody will be buying hardware but renting it.
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Or perhaps gamers will start putting down payments on new hardware.

Man, I remember the days of the Lay-Away... :D
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Regardless, these wafer costs are unprecedented.

Sony paid close to $7 - 9k per wafer for the launch PS4. This is over 3x the wafer cost.

At some point it stops making economic sense to build a console on the latest node unless you think you can sell a $900 box to a mass market.

Global Foundries, Samsung, and Intel all screwed the pooch and let TSMC run too far ahead. Now they have no competition and they're just price gouging for all their worth.
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We already have arrived at that point.
Current gen and even Switch 2 are not using the newest and latest node.
Exactly for that reason.

One of the reasons we do not get price cuts anymore....
 
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