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[G.ZZZ]

Seems like that lately Turkey is on an autoritharian spiral lately. The Syrian war giving excuse for ethnical and political elimination all over the place.

Turkish police have raided the offices of Zaman, the country's biggest newspaper, hours after a court ruling placed it under state control.
Police entered the building in Istanbul late on Friday, firing tear gas at protesters who had gathered outside.
Zaman is closely linked to the Hizmet movement of influential US-based cleric Fethullah Gulen.
Turkey says Hizmet is a "terrorist" group aiming to overthrow President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's government.
Mr Gulen was once an ally of Mr Erdogan but the two fell out.
Many Hizmet supporters have been arrested.
The government in Ankara has come under increasing international criticism over its treatment of journalists.

The court ruled on Friday that Zaman, that has a circulation of some 650,000, should now be run by administrators. No explanation was given.
Later, hundreds of Zaman supporters gathered outside the newspaper's offices to protest at the state takeover. One held a placard saying, "We will fight for a free press."
Police used water cannon and tear gas to disperse the protesters.

Some embarrassing excerpts.

Put me under state control if old.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35730041

 

[Jonnax]

Lol. I thought Turkey wanted to enter the EU.
Looks like they're having more in common with Azerbaijan so it looking pretty unlikely.

 

[Ushojax]

Erdogan is a complete dick, him and his family are all scumbags.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

Turkey is definitely in a lot of trouble right now. I feel for the people there, because getting Emperor Erdogan off of his throne is probably going to take a whole lot of corpses to accomplish at this point.

 

[Kayo-kun]

Lol. I thought Turkey wanted to enter the EU.
Looks like they're having more in common with Azerbaijan so it looking pretty unlikely.

Nobody in Turkey (or outside of Turkey) want's to be a part of EU. Can we kill this argument already?

Not to mention that it's not a single Turkish person bringing it up apart from foreigners.

Other than that, this is usual AKP politics. Not the first time they've done it.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I guess the problem isn't really that police are raiding it, it's that it was taken under state control that's the alarming thing! Amazingly overt display of authoritarian control.

 

[Drazgul]

Nobody in Turkey (or outside of Turkey) want's to be a part of EU. Can we kill this argument already?

Not to mention that it's not a single Turkish person bringing it up apart from foreigners.

Other than that, this is usual AKP politics. Not the first time they've done it.

If that was true, wouldn't they have withdrawn their accession application by now?

 

[G.ZZZ]

I guess the problem isn't really that police are raiding it, it's that it was taken under state control that's the alarming thing! Amazingly overt display of authoritarian control.

Imagine having the biggest newspaper in your country suddendly being placed under state control. Can you imagine the shitstorm that would ensue ? Embarrasing that EU can't say anything about it because they need Turkey's help for the refugee situation. We should have started funding refugee camps to avoid this kind of blackmail in the first place, but alas, it seems that no one is able to manage this situation decently.

Also incoming the usual suspects defending this.

 

[Vlodril]

Turkey is definitely in a lot of trouble right now. I feel for the people there, because getting Emperor Erdogan off of his throne is probably going to take a whole lot of corpses to accomplish at this point.

I thought turkish people love the guy (he gets big wins on the elections right)?

 

[CoolOff]

Totally the right move if they want to move closer to an EU-membership. Yep.

 

[kruis]

Nobody in Turkey (or outside of Turkey) want's to be a part of EU. Can we kill this argument already?

Not to mention that it's not a single Turkish person bringing it up apart from foreigners.

That's a relief to hear because many Europeans don't want it either. Turkey has been a potential member for many decades now. That alone should tell you how huge the differences that need to be overcome are. With Erdogan acting as power mad dictator, there's no chance of Turkey ever becoming a member.

In my view Turkey is an Asian nation. Only 3% of the territory lies in Europe, the other 97% is Asia.

 

[navanman]

Pretty sad to see Turkey changing from secular country to becoming a near Islamic state.
Maybe its what the people want as Erdogan seems to be a popular as ever.

Is he aiming for a return of the Ottoman empire with him as the figurehead?

 

[YianGaruga]

Nobody in Turkey (or outside of Turkey) want's to be a part of EU. Can we kill this argument already?

Not to mention that it's not a single Turkish person bringing it up apart from foreigners.

The "negotiations" are still happening and it has been a topic again very recently in light of the refugee crisis and Turkey's role in it. It's definitely a thing.

 

[Kayo-kun]

That's a relief to hear because many Europeans don't want it either. Turkey has been a potential member for many decades now. That alone should tell you how huge the differences that need to be overcome are. With Erdogan acting as power mad dictator, there's no chance of Turkey ever becoming a member.

In my view Turkey is an Asian nation. Only 3% of the territory lies in Europe, the other 97% is Asia.

Nobody cares about your view of Turkey being an Asian nation or not. Cyprus for example is 100% in Asia, but still a part of EU. Several hundred of years ago, some of the other countries that are in the EU wouldn't be considered European.

The EU is an economical and political organisation. It's about power politics and international relations, not much about borders and what the common european thinks of x country.

The "negotiations" are still happening and it has been a topic again very recently in light of the refugee crisis and Turkey's role in it. It's definitely a thing.

Yes "negotiations". The meetings are mostly about how Turkey can prevent more refugees from entering Europe from Syria/Africa/Afghanistan/Iraq.

 

[YianGaruga]

Yes "negotiations". The meetings are mostly about how Turkey can prevent more refugees from entering Europe from Syria/Africa/Afghanistan/Iraq.

Exactly. And in turn they are being offered (among other things) expedited accession negotiations. How serious each party is is another matter, but if "nobody" wanted to be in the EU, it wouldn't be a topic at all.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

I thought turkish people love the guy (he gets big wins on the elections right)?

I believe that's mostly due to the rural vote, which are people that are very religious and "conservative" in their vote. Which is why you see so much resistance in the big cities when Erdogan forces his weird crap on them there.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Yes "negotiations". The meetings are mostly about how Turkey can prevent more refugees from entering Europe from Syria/Africa/Afghanistan/Iraq.

Turkey formally applied for membership in 1987. Since then various negotiations have taken place regarding requirements, long before the refugee crisis started. It would be incorrect to say that "nobody" in Turkey wants to join. This is three years old but quite a lot of Turkish people considered the prospect of EU membership as positive. Even if support had halved since then, that would still be a considerable minority of the country.

That's the English edition of the very newspaper office being raided in this thread, by the way!

 

[Kayo-kun]

Turkey formally applied for membership in 1987. Since then various negotiations have taken place regarding requirements, long before the refugee crisis started. It would be incorrect to say that "nobody" in Turkey wants to join. This is three years old but quite a lot of Turkish people considered the prospect of EU membership as positive. Even if support had halved since then, that would still be a considerable minority of the country.

That's the English edition of the very newspaper office being raided in this thread, by the way!

Alot have changed the last years and people are far more critical. I do not really trust these surveys either.

Sure, the negotiations are going on, and have been going on for a long time. Still, if you think from a realist perspective; a country with 75 million population entering EU and getting as much political power and influence as France and Germany? I would say no chance in hell. Why would the major EU countries give away their influence over their own region by letting Turkey in?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Alot have changed the last years and people are far more critical. I do not really trust these surveys either.

Sure, the negotiations are going on, and have been going on for a long time. Still, if you think from a realist perspective; a country with 75 million population entering EU and getting as much political power and influence as France and Germany? I would say no chance in hell. Why would the major EU countries give away their influence over their own region by letting Turkey in?

I dunno, why did they let the UK in? The big countries got less powerful as a proportion of the EU with every enlargement, so that's a really odd way of looking at it. They might consider Turkey a bridge too far for various reasons, economic differences, historical animosity, religious makeup, or whatever. But the biggest stumbling blocks are the politics of individual leaders and the overall economic situation. Things looked more positive for a Turkey accession when times were good and Edrogan didn't seem like he was going to ride Turkey into a nationalistic, socially and politically regressive shitstorm.

 

[oti]

Alot have changed the last years and people are far more critical. I do not really trust these surveys either.

Sure, the negotiations are going on, and have been going on for a long time. Still, if you think from a realist perspective; a country with 75 million population entering EU and getting as much political power and influence as France and Germany? I would say no chance in hell. Why would the major EU countries give away their influence over their own region by letting Turkey in?

This conspiracy theory is new to me I must say.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Lol. I thought Turkey wanted to enter the EU.

They want to brute-force their way into it through "negociations" and intimidation. Hell, they have no qualms militarily occupying the EU literally right now.

 

[michaelius]

IMHO they will introduce sharia law in <20 years time frame if Erdogan and his party stay in power

This conspiracy theory is new to me I must say.

It's not conspiracy - Germany and France were so busy trying to get as much power over smaller nations in EU that they created system where Turkey would be one of biggest voting powers in EU if they joined

 

[Renekton]

Pretty sad to see Turkey changing from secular country to becoming a near Islamic state.
Maybe its what the people want as Erdogan seems to be a popular as ever.

Is he aiming for a return of the Ottoman empire with him as the figurehead?

Seems to be a trend.

Muslim-population countries (like mine) are moving away from Secularism.

 

[dakun]

i only feel sad for the people living in Turkey that still believe in a secular democratic government and didn't vote for Erdogan.

All the rest of them will get what they deserve after voting for this asshole time and time again.

When they wake up to what he's doing to their country it will be too late. Of course many want exactly what he wants so that's another issue. I'm talking about the sheep that love Erdogan against their own interests.

The only hope i have is that Erdogan dies before he destroys the country.

and yes as someone with Turkish parents i'm mad as hell

 

[Kayo-kun]

They want to brute-force their way into it through "negociations" and intimidation. Hell, they have no qualms militarily occupying the EU literally right now.

They intervened in Cyprus since the beautiful peace loving Europeans were making ethnic cleansings on the nothern parts of the island. Northern Cyprus is an independent nation today, with the support from Turkey. They have their own government and self-rule.

If anyone knows how to brute force things, it's the Western European nations. Just look at countless events throughout history.

 

[Stereogatari]

I usually would be angry, but this particular newspaper's owners are more Islamist and cultish than Erdogan. They used to support Erdogan, so good riddance I say.

 

[dakun]

I usually would be angry, but this particular newspaper's owners are more Islamist and cultish than Erdogan. They used to support Erdogan, so good riddance I say.

You either believe in freedom of press or you don't there is no middle road where you pick and chose which organization you grant that right to.

 

[G.ZZZ]

I usually would be angry, but this particular newspaper's owners are more Islamist and cultish than Erdogan. They used to support Erdogan, so good riddance I say.

Like a clock

 

[ajim]

As a Turkish bloke,this is just more disappointing news on top of everything else. Eh.

 

[Palculator]

Sounding more and more like a dictatorship.

 

[nynt9]

Like a clock

He's right though. This newspaper is a part of Hizmet, a cult run by Erdogan's former ally, now enemy Fethullah Gulen.
More info on Gulen: http://www.meforum.org/2045/fethullah-gulens-grand-ambition

 

[G.ZZZ]

He's right though. This newspaper is a part of Hizmet, a cult run by Erdogan's former ally, now enemy Fethullah Gulen.
More info on Gulen: http://www.meforum.org/2045/fethullah-gulens-grand-ambition

Who give a shit though? Control of the press is always problematic and make for easy precedents. Or are we pretending it's only important when our press shit on muslims? 'Cause i was for freedom back then, and i'm for it now.

 

[Violet_0]

Totally the right move if they want to move closer to an EU-membership. Yep.

hey, if it works for Poland and Hungary?

 

[Ether_Snake]

He's right though. This newspaper is a part of Hizmet, a cult run by Erdogan's former ally, now enemy Fethullah Gulen.
More info on Gulen: http://www.meforum.org/2045/fethullah-gulens-grand-ambition

Explain this cult thing.

 

[nynt9]

Who give a shit though? Control of the press is always problematic and make for easy precedents. Or are we pretending it's only important when our press shit on muslims? 'Cause i was for freedom back then, and i'm for it now.

I'm not talking about the freedom part. I'm talking about them being Islamists. Not Islamic, but Islamists.

As for the cult thing, the link explains it.

 

[Yamauchi]

Zaman is a respectable news organization. They are highly critical of the Erdogan regime, but what reasonable person or organization isn't?

 

[Jasup]

They want to brute-force their way into it through "negociations" and intimidation. Hell, they have no qualms militarily occupying the EU literally right now.

While Northern Cyprus is an issue, I find this view rather narrow.

There was definately a strong support throughout the EU and European governments for Turkey's eventual membership. In the late 1990's and early 2000's when the former Eastern bloc countries negotiated and joined, a very common notion was that Turkey will soon follow. Of course at the time European left was more in power and they were more open to the idea of multicultural EU and saw it as a project peace between people. During this age of European optimism even Russia was considered as a possible future member.

Before the EU's eastern expansion negotiations were very active and Turkey made huge strides in changing the legislation and economy to meet the EU standards. Sure there still were a lot of unsolved issues, but membership was a real goal.

However the 2004 and 2007 enlargements changed the situation considerably. First of all there was the exhaustion of including so many new members in so little time, which brought about new complications in politics. As well as the new member states that had to adjust to the EU the EU itself had to adjust to accompany them.

At this time in the former west the conservatives were gaining power and as an unrelated process the anti-islamic sentiment was gaining traction in the wake of the terrorist attacks in the USA in 2001, the Madrid bombings in 2003 and London bombings in 2005. At the same time there was a huge increase of anti-immigration sentiments as people were scared of the Polish plumbers and whatnot taking their jobs. Of course right wing populism had been strong in some member states before that, for example in Austria where FPÖ won the elections in 1999.

This resulted in political uncertainty and legislative complications in the EU and a clear shift towards the right. This of course included the new member countries many of which were quite abit conservative in many fields than the old west and played a part in it.

One clear example was how during the Lisbon Treaty negotiations there was a motion put forward by few members that it should include Christianity and Christian values as common values shared by the member countries. This was of course seen by many, Turkey included, as a direct statement that Turkey should never be included in the EU.

So there we were, in a new EU with more complex and almost stagnant legislative process, unable to tackle common problems because of very fragmented political spectrum and increased national interests. And with some of the member states clearly saying that Turkey wasn't welcome.

This lead to Turkey being more and more disillusioned about the prospect of being an EU member one day in near(ish) future and resulted in Turkey's politics steering more away from the EU and towards national and nationalistic interests.

 

[GSG Flash]

I usually would be angry, but this particular newspaper's owners are more Islamist and cultish than Erdogan. They used to support Erdogan, so good riddance I say.

And now they'll be supporting him again...

Wouldn't be surprised to see Erdo&#287;an pass a law to try to make him president for life at this point. Does Turkey have limits on terms?

 

[nynt9]

And now they'll be supporting him again...

Wouldn't be surprised to see Erdo&#287;an pass a law to try to make him president for life at this point. Does Turkey have limits on terms?

Yes, but he's revamping the constitution and he could change that. It's not like there's anyone left to oppose him.

 

[Phantast2k]

Zaman newspaper: Seized Turkish daily 'now pro-government' - BBC News

On Friday, a court ruled that Zaman, previously linked to an opponent of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, should now be run by administrators.
Its last edition under old ownership on Saturday said Turkey's press had seen one of its "darkest days".
Meanwhile, a newspaper set up by former Zaman staff was launched on Sunday.
Police raided Zaman's Istanbul offices late on Friday hours after a court ruling placed it under state control, but managers were still able to get Saturday's edition to print.
No reason was given by the court for the decision.
Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said the takeover was "legal, not political".
"It is out of the question for either me or any of my colleagues to interfere in this process," he said in a television interview.
Water cannon and tear gas were used against some 500 Zaman supporters gathered in front of its headquarters on Saturday.
Zaman journalists who arrived to work on Saturday said their access to internal servers had been denied. Its editor-in-chief Abdulhamit Bilici and a leading columnist were also fired.

The front page of Sunday's edition of Zaman, the first under new ownership, bears an image of Mr Erdogan and the headline "Historic excitement about the bridge". The articles says Mr Erdogan is to lay the last part of a third bridge across the Bosphorus that is close to completion.


(...)

Turkey is going full Russia.