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[shinobi602]

The Iraqi government has demanded that Turkey withdraw troops it sent to an area near the northern city of Mosul. The move was "serious breach of Iraqi sovereignty" Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi's office said in a statement.

About 150 Turkish soldiers have been deployed near in the town of Bashiqa to train Iraqi Kurdish forces, earlier reports said.

Mosul has been under the control of the Islamic State (IS) group since last year. The statement called on Turkey to "respect good neighbourly relations and to withdraw immediately from the Iraqi territory".

Turkey enjoys close relations with autonomous Kurdish regions in Iraq, although views Syrian Kurdish groups over the border as hostile, analysts say. The fall of Mosul was a key moment in the rise of IS and a Iraqi government offensive to retake the city has been repeatedly put back.

This week saw the UK carry out its first air strikes against IS in Syria and Germany voting to send military support to the coalition fighting IS in the country.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35012902

 

[foxtrot3d]

Wait, Turkey and Kurdish forces working together?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Weren't people saying the Turks were bombing Kurds instead of ISIS only months ago?

 

[nillah]

Earth's playground for war

 

[CadetMahoney]

Germany voting to send military support to the coalition fighting IS in the country.

They arming the moderate rebels fighting Russians/Assd ISIS too?

 

[Frustrated_me]

Turkey and KRG and Peshmerga Kurds have good relations. Turkey purchases energy from northern Iraqi Kurds.

Turkey needs presence inside north Iraq and Syria, this is how they achieve it. Pretty bold and smart move all things considering.

It's becoming really difficult to track what the next move is, I've never followed a war that has played out like this.

 

[RustyNails]

Iraqi PM should shut the fuck up and accept whatever help he's getting to defeat ISIS. Absolutely in no position to talk strength and rattle sabres. Guy sounds like everythingisfineburningdog.gif

 

[Frozenprince]

Yet another sign that Kurdistan is going to become an autonomous nation sooner rather than later.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

They arming the moderate rebels fighting Russians/Assd ISIS too?

Uhhh what post are you quoting exactly

 

[TheRealTalker]

to train Iraqi Kurdish forces

say wha?

Yet another sign that Kurdistan is going to become an autonomous nation sooner rather than later.

hope so.... one of the needed things that must be done in that region and in Africa is to restructure those colonial border lines that are faulty to a T

apparently Syrian rebel groups and the 'President' of Kurdistan are in Riyadh right now?

The sooner these countries think of the reality in that region the better.... every country in that region from the GCC to the Turks need to realize reality isn't just themselves

Edit: In reality though nothing is going to happen but back stabbings for all groups

Weren't people saying the Turks were bombing Kurds instead of ISIS only months ago?

everything is so fucking confusing that there is no point in keeping tabs any more

 

[antonz]

Imagine there is a bit of nose thumbing involved in this as well against Russia and Iran who have been working to exert themselves over Iraq.

Should have been helping the Kurds a lot more directly instead of the diplomatic bullshit of the Baghdad government has to distribute and allow anything we might want to supply to the Kurds.

It was the Iraqi Governments sectarian nature that pushed a large number to ISIS. Its the Iraqi Governments forces who basically turned over tanks, Humvees and weapons to ISIS even as they greatly outnumbered ISIS forces.

 

[Mii]

If we were to put aside the ISIS issue for a moment and reflect on the Sykes-Picot issue, we probably need a few countries reorganized. Lets look at what an ideal break-up of the region would be.

We need:
- Western Syria: a territory mostly for the Aluwites, Christians, and other groups of Syria. Perhaps it might make sense to merge into Lebanon, but it has the most pieces of functional government
- Sunni country: basically where ISIS currently is across portions of Syria and Iraq, plus some portions of the other rebels (i.e. Nusra). Setting up a government here will be difficult, so perhaps it would make more sense to have Saudi Arabia operate the territory (maybe this could be a chip in the Iran-Saudi Arabia talks).
- Turkmen territory (northern Syria): Turkey believes this territory has many people who still identify as Turks. Perhaps allowing some of this territory merge into Turkey could be used as a chip to get Turkey to accept Kurds in the east separating from Turkey.
- Shia Iraq: Baghdad and other portions of south-eastern Iraq. This area has an operational government, and perhaps could stay independent. This country would likely closely align with Iran.
- Kurdistan: Northern Iraq, north-eastern Syria, eastern Turkey. There are some pieces in Iran too but they don't seem to seek a separate country as actively. To help achieve calm in this region, they may need their own country. They would probably be the US's best ally in the region if created.

Negotiations could assume a split is required. We could require Assad step down but allow him to be replaced by someone within his own power structure if he agrees to cede power of eastern Syria to the other players.

Eastern Syria would require a collective effort of the international community and the Arab countries could have governance responsibility, particularly Saudi Arabia. If Iraq complains, we dare them to challenge us.

Turkmen territory could be sliced strategically out of current Syria to make Turkey happy with losing Kurd territory.

Kurdistan will also need Iraq to look the other way as we slice it off. Perhaps some agreement for additional international investment in Iraq and Iran could help both countries accept this shake-up.

Western Syria could exist as separate or decide on their own to join with Lebanon, depending on what Iran prefers.

So now how do we get everyone at the table to be okay with all this?

 

[Any Questions]

If we were to put aside the ISIS issue for a moment and reflect on the Sykes-Picot issue, we probably need a few countries reorganized. Lets look at what an ideal break-up of the region would be.

We need:
- Western Syria: a territory mostly for the Aluwites, Christians, and other groups of Syria. Perhaps it might make sense to merge into Lebanon, but it has the most pieces of functional government
- Sunni country: basically where ISIS currently is across portions of Syria and Iraq, plus some portions of the other rebels (i.e. Nusra). Setting up a government here will be difficult, so perhaps it would make more sense to have Saudi Arabia operate the territory (maybe this could be a chip in the Iran-Saudi Arabia talks).
- Turkmen territory (northern Syria): Turkey believes this territory has many people who still identify as Turks. Perhaps allowing some of this territory merge into Turkey could be used as a chip to get Turkey to accept Kurds in the east separating from Turkey.
- Shia Iraq: Baghdad and other portions of south-eastern Iraq. This area has an operational government, and perhaps could stay independent. This country would likely closely align with Iran.
- Kurdistan: Northern Iraq, north-eastern Syria, eastern Turkey. There are some pieces in Iran too but they don't seem to seek a separate country as actively. To help achieve calm in this region, they may need their own country. They would probably be the US's best ally in the region if created.

Negotiations could assume a split is required. We could require Assad step down but allow him to be replaced by someone within his own power structure if he agrees to cede power of eastern Syria to the other players.

Eastern Syria would require a collective effort of the international community and the Arab countries could have governance responsibility, particularly Saudi Arabia. If Iraq complains, we dare them to challenge us.

Turkmen territory could be sliced strategically out of current Syria to make Turkey happy with losing Kurd territory.

Kurdistan will also need Iraq to look the other way as we slice it off. Perhaps some agreement for additional international investment in Iraq and Iran could help both countries accept this shake-up.

Western Syria could exist as separate or decide on their own to join with Lebanon, depending on what Iran prefers.

So now how do we get everyone at the table to be okay with all this?

Its an idea but unfortunately all I see is more pain and suffering for years to come

 

[Mimosa97]

The whole region needs a reshuffle. The actual boarders are outdated and completely obsolete.

I just hope they don't end up with a caliphate ...

 

[goomba]

If we were to put aside the ISIS issue for a moment and reflect on the Sykes-Picot issue, we probably need a few countries reorganized. Lets look at what an ideal break-up of the region would be.

We need:
- Western Syria: a territory mostly for the Aluwites, Christians, and other groups of Syria. Perhaps it might make sense to merge into Lebanon, but it has the most pieces of functional government
- Sunni country: basically where ISIS currently is across portions of Syria and Iraq, plus some portions of the other rebels (i.e. Nusra). Setting up a government here will be difficult, so perhaps it would make more sense to have Saudi Arabia operate the territory (maybe this could be a chip in the Iran-Saudi Arabia talks).
- Turkmen territory (northern Syria): Turkey believes this territory has many people who still identify as Turks. Perhaps allowing some of this territory merge into Turkey could be used as a chip to get Turkey to accept Kurds in the east separating from Turkey.
- Shia Iraq: Baghdad and other portions of south-eastern Iraq. This area has an operational government, and perhaps could stay independent. This country would likely closely align with Iran.
- Kurdistan: Northern Iraq, north-eastern Syria, eastern Turkey. There are some pieces in Iran too but they don't seem to seek a separate country as actively. To help achieve calm in this region, they may need their own country. They would probably be the US's best ally in the region if created.

Negotiations could assume a split is required. We could require Assad step down but allow him to be replaced by someone within his own power structure if he agrees to cede power of eastern Syria to the other players.

Eastern Syria would require a collective effort of the international community and the Arab countries could have governance responsibility, particularly Saudi Arabia. If Iraq complains, we dare them to challenge us.

Turkmen territory could be sliced strategically out of current Syria to make Turkey happy with losing Kurd territory.

Kurdistan will also need Iraq to look the other way as we slice it off. Perhaps some agreement for additional international investment in Iraq and Iran could help both countries accept this shake-up.

Western Syria could exist as separate or decide on their own to join with Lebanon, depending on what Iran prefers.

So now how do we get everyone at the table to be okay with all this?

Who do you mean by "we" ? Nato member countries? what gives them the right to change borders of sovereign countries ?

They should get the fuck out of the middle east and stop arming and supporting rebels to take down governments they dont like.

 

[kess]

Turkey has always been a little salty about the Mosul Question

 

[Asmodai48]

Using turkeys logic wouldn't iraq be entitled to bomb the shit out of these troops if they desired?

 

[goomba]

Turkey has always been a little salty about the Mosul Question

Hah so turkey want Mosul back for themselves

 

[sangreal]

Who do you mean by "we" ? Nato member countries? what gives them the right to change borders of sovereign countries ?

They should get the fuck out of the middle east and stop arming and supporting rebels to take down governments they dont like.

Holy jump to conclusions batman

I assume he means we as in we would all be better off if the borders in the Middle East (and elsewhere) reflected the real world population divisions

Didn't say anything about NATO

 

[TheRealTalker]

Using turkeys logic wouldn't iraq be entitled to bomb the shit out of these troops if they desired?

would they dare... against Turkey?

and last I checked the Iraqi army wasn't known to be the best when it comes to staying their ground

 

[hiptanaka]

Iraqi PM should shut the fuck up and accept whatever help he's getting to defeat ISIS. Absolutely in no position to talk strength and rattle sabres. Guy sounds like everythingisfineburningdog.gif

Turkey is breaching his country's sovereignty.

 

[jblank83]

The whole region needs a reshuffle. The actual boarders are outdated and completely obsolete.

Well, that's what all this mess these last 10 years is really about, isn't it?

The fall of Iraq left a huge power vacuum, giving various nations, sects, tribes etc an opportunity to play their hands at king maker.

 

[ShutEye]

Splitting the region along ethno religious lines is probably a necessity at this point, if only because Levant Sunnis won't accept Baghdad, Damascus or Kabul control however it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of Iran and Saudi Arabia using a religious conflict / proxy war as a mechanism to distract their populations from the fact both countries are run by thuggish thieves.

They will continue to foment conflict unless they are properly constrained, punished or replaced.

 

[RustyNails]

Turkey is breaching his country's sovereignty.

Well after ISIS fucked Iraq's borders, and their army dropped their pants in fear and ran away, it sounds pretty hollow to talk about sovereignty and all those nice sounding strength stuff. Just admit that you have a useless army, your government is weak and sectarian and corrupt, and humbly accept whatever aid you're getting.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Uhhh what post are you quoting exactly

ah yes the original sorry about that.

 

[DiscoJer]

Weren't people saying the Turks were bombing Kurds instead of ISIS only months ago?

Months? How about two weeks ago? Or so says this article from Nov 25th.

http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/25112015

Bear in mind, it's a Kurdish news site.

 

[Canis lupus]

Wait, Turkey and Kurdish forces working together?

They arming the moderate rebels fighting Russians/Assd ISIS too?

say wha?

We've been working together for years. Western propaganda made it look like Turkey was against the Kurdish people when all Turkey was doing was eliminating its own terrorist group. When the West is talking about, ETA, IRA, ISIS or Alqaeda it is never about Basques, Arabs or Afghans but when it comes to PKK terrorists it becomes Kurds.

It is an awful campaign against Turkey, the Kurds voting for Erdogan must have come as a shock. It is not all black and white in the Middle East.

Turkey fully supports Iraqi Kurdistan and has a lot of investments there and we train them against ISIS, the Arab south of the country doesn't like that we're too close.

Months? How about two weeks ago? Or so says this article from Nov 25th.

http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/25112015

Bear in mind, it's a Kurdish news site.

Maybe try to read your own article. PKK is a terror organization, Turkey should do everything it can to exterminate those bastards.

 

[Volimar]

I have no fucking idea what's going on over there anymore.

 

[Sinfamy]

Who hasn't been in Iraq.
When you've got ISIS running rampant in your country and you're doing nothing to stop it, complaining about sovereignty is laughable.

 

[Yasir]

Fuck yeah Turkey!

No really, wtf is actually happening. Conflicting reports, fingers being pointed at all directions.

One thing I can always be sure of is Russia being the one up to no good.

From the very beginning; support of Assad, Ukraine shit, etc

 

[samn]

Weren't people saying the Turks were bombing Kurds instead of ISIS only months ago?

Yes, they were - Syrian Kurds.

 

[DragonSworne]

I wonder if people will get upset if Iraq decides to kill those troops for invading its ground space.

 

[DY_nasty]

I wonder if people will get upset if Iraq decides to kill those troops for invading its ground space.

iraq should be grateful to even be referred to as iraq at this point...

 

[Frustrated_me]

I wonder if people will get upset if Iraq decides to kill those troops for invading its ground space.

How does Iraq do that exactly? If Iraq had capabilities to do so, let's say, then why wait over two years to do anything about it?

Iraq is weak right now, they're word doesn't hold much value.

 

[Kenshin001]

Well after ISIS fucked Iraq's borders, and their army dropped their pants in fear and ran away, it sounds pretty hollow to talk about sovereignty and all those nice sounding strength stuff. Just admit that you have a useless army, your government is weak and sectarian and corrupt, and humbly accept whatever aid you're getting.

They just took Baiji and are about to launch an offensive on Ramadi without Turkey's help. They don't need Turkey. It is a bit rich for Turkey to defend shooting down the Russian plane for a breach of sovereign air space and then send in troops to Iraq uninvited.

 

[nampad]

Using turkeys logic wouldn't iraq be entitled to bomb the shit out of these troops if they desired?

Yes. That fucking hypocrisy...

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Quoting myself from the other thread

Wouldn't be surprised if many are completely ignorant of the cushy relationhip between the KRG (or the KDP at least) and Turkey, including their oil dealings.

yip

-snip-

So now how do we get everyone at the table to be okay with all this?

It's not a secessionist conflict and none of the parties involved want that so you cant and wont.

 

[hohoXD123]

Weren't people saying the Turks were bombing Kurds instead of ISIS only months ago?

Yeah, the PKK, which is a group of Kurds that Turkey and Western countries brand as terrorists since they are in conflict with Turkey. Well, there was a ceasefire until the PKK killed a Turkish policeman for allegedly being linked to a deadly ISIS bombing of Kurds, Turkey then responded with airstrikes which some say are disproportionate compared to their attacks on ISIS. The Kurds in this case however are the Peshmerga, the fighting force of the Kurdistan Regional Government in Iraq, which generally maintain decent relations with Turkey and the current ruling party aren't exactly great friends with the PKK.

How does Iraq do that exactly? If Iraq had capabilities to do so, let's say, then why wait over two years to do anything about it?

Iraq is weak right now, they're word doesn't hold much value.

It's more of the principle of the whole thing rather than the practicalities. Turkey has been pretty hypocritical in regards to shooting down the Russian plane, no idea how they thought that was a good idea.

 

[Canis lupus]

If we were to put aside the ISIS issue for a moment and reflect on the Sykes-Picot issue, we probably need a few countries reorganized. Lets look at what an ideal break-up of the region would be.

Sykes Picot IS the issue. The West still thinking it can come and carve our lands is the biggest insult there is. All the problems the region has is because it was balkanized in the first place.

The best solution for Iraq and Syria would be that it became 1 country again with Turkey, federalized and local people having far reaching autonomous self rule.

But we will never have real peace as long as Saudis support wahhabism and Israel terrorizes Palestinians.

 

[Ether_Snake]

It's the Kurds in northern Syria that the Turkish government has a beef with, not those in Iraq. This isn't surprising nor a sign that relations improved, it's the same as before.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Wait, Turkey and Kurdish forces working together?

The hate for turkey is so big that people refuse to believe that turkey only bombs PKK which is a terrorist organization and not "regular" Kurds.

Same bullshit people said about turkey buying ISIS oil.

 

[andythinkpad]

Anti-ISIS force or..."Anti-ISIS" force?

 

[mercenar1e]

they should respect the integrity of borders.

 

[Guy.brush]

there must be something in the water over there.

 

[Liha]

Iraq should ask Russia for help lol.

 

[TheRealTalker]

The hate for turkey is so big that people refuse to believe that turkey only bombs PKK which is a terrorist organization and not "regular" Kurds.

Same bullshit people said about turkey buying ISIS oil.

yeah apparently those trucks are Kurdish trucks (Iraqi Kurds) that are allied with Turkey

 

[Catatafish]

Iraq should ask Russia for help lol.

And betray the US? Not happening

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Iraq should ask Russia for help lol.

They did, US told them that if Russia helped them that they (the U.S) will withdraw essentially ending that chapter. On the topic of Turkey entering Iraq, isn't it fucking precious, the stink of that hypocrisy. Breaching their airspace for 17 seconds results in them shooting down a jet but they can send a full battalion of men and armour into another country without the countries consent. I doubt they would try that shit in Syria considering the situation, regardless Iraq is in no position militarily to force them out and they cant ask the Russians since U.S has essentially blocked that avenue, the U.S for its part will not do anything because Turkey is an important member of Nato.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Iraq should ask Russia for help lol.

quite honestly I really feel Putin is going to back stab Assad and Iran soon

he has been having secret talks with the Saudis over and over again

 

[damisa]

It's not a secessionist conflict and none of the parties involved want that so you cant and wont.

Minorities in Syria would much rather have their own smaller country then be ruled by a Sunni and Sunni's don't want to be ruled by a Shia either. So I don't see any other solution.