Turkish Women allowed to wear head scarfs in Universities
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black_13 said:
Turkey is a Muslim country with an identity crisis due to Mustufa Kermal reaction to the Arab revolt and his actions to end anything Islamic in forming the "republic" after World War I... But now a days, its the military and their actions to end anything "Islamic" as it is afraid to be modern moderate Islamic country, which the people of the nation want. While the secularist want a country that pure secularist even more so than Europe itself and no once of religion from their daily practices in private and public life.
Good for them, I've been following this a while, what I find stupid is the secularists argument that by wearing headscarfs the country is one step closer to turning like iran.
Which in my poinion is complete bullshit....
First of all if they are so passionate about promoting democracy and that, then shouldn't they be happy and say it is now the womans choice to wear or not wear one, instead of forcing to make some woman do what they might not want to (not wear one)...
Anyway good for them
Which in my poinion is complete bullshit....
First of all if they are so passionate about promoting democracy and that, then shouldn't they be happy and say it is now the womans choice to wear or not wear one, instead of forcing to make some woman do what they might not want to (not wear one)...
Anyway good for them
black_13 said:
Dude it's an islamic country. 99.8% of Turks are muslim. But it's a country with a long history of secularism and the government has had a tendency to go a bit overboard with that.
But Ataturk's (the dude primarily responsible for Turkey's secularism) party lost for like, one of the first times ever(?) recently, and the new gov is much more islamic.
Ripclawe said:
boo hoo... If a western country's party is conservative than its alright with the world. Oh God forbid an Islamic country's elected party is Islamic. El is Extremist... The west is such a hypocritical society.
Not a worrying sign at all. Its good sign that country will come back to its Islamic roots, yet becoming a true democracy where freedom of choice is given to everyone.
Actually 'Headscraf' is a debatable subject... It can be on some interruptions or it could mean covering up.
The secularist are afraid that some religious women will be allowed to wear the headscraf and the women who chose not to wear it will feel that they are not pious then them or feel belittled as they won't be equal in appearance.
Which I say BS... Its the women's choice to do so. Let them chose what they want to do, instead of forcing them to do the one or another.
Septy said:
Yet the basis of some parts of the constitution are based upon the Bible...
Yet Turkey is trying to shun her own past, by ridiculing that its no longer an Islamic Country. Nevertheless she will be as long as there are practicing Muslims in the majority of the nation.
The Turkish Military will be forever be known for surprising democracy in its pure form, which includes religious and practical freedom.
Islam's political wing is very social democratic. But it is man who is corrupted Islam in the sense of its interpretation when everything is written well before the democracy that we know today was formed.
Zapages said:
Which passages of the Bible specifically? There is mention of God, but the U.S shunned a notion of a state religion from the beginning.
I'm curious, if Turkey were to become an Islamic state, do you think people should have the freedom to convert to another religion or leave religion altogther?
EDIT: I don't see how the "West" is hypocritical from a few posts here in this thread. European countries seem to prefer dealing with the present government instead of dealing with the Nationalist party.
thesoapster
Member
Quellex said:
:lol
Nice to see some an extra ounce of freedom for those who choose to follow that.
Masenkame said:
Same can be said of the US.
The UK doesn't have a secular constitution, but it's entirely secular in practice because nobody gives a shit about religion.
Arbitrary documents written hundreds of years ago are irrelevant really, it's about the philosophical state of mind of the society.
And I wouldn't say the philosophical state of mind of the US or Turkey are very different at all right now when it comes to religion.
thesoapster
Member
Sirolf said:
I hope you're not serious...by this logic Jews could not wear a kippah (the little...hat thing). Christians could not wear a cross necklace. They should be separate, but separating someone from their harmless religious practices is...bad.
Sirolf said:
You're still kidding, right?
edit:
Branduil said:
.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
Masenkame said:
Actually the majority of the people in Turkey are for secularism, but they are against the paranoid fear mongering way the country is run the last 80 or so years. "Allowing headscarves leads to Islamic state, Turkey will be doomed" or "Allowing more rights to Kurds will divide the country, Turkey will be doomed"! It's this way of thinking that's holding Turkey back to really progress towards a healthy humanrights situation. I am a Turk, my whole family (including me) is Muslim, hardly anyone wears a headscarve besides a few aunts and my grandmother. I think this new developement is a good thing.
I wasn't serious. :lol (Those quoting me)
I fully support women having the option to wear scarves in universities.
I think some people here don't realize that the ultranationalists are generally the extremists in Turkey, they take their secularism to extremes. It's a stealth religion in a way.
An example being Veli Kucuk (former general) was planning on having Orhan Pamuk assasinated.
I know us that live in the USA generally associate the extremists with religious institutions, but in Turkey it generally leans the other way around.
Same here, the only people that wear hijab in my family are my mom, one of my aunts and my grandmother. No one else does, and no ones going to be forcing anyone to do so.
I fully support women having the option to wear scarves in universities.
I think some people here don't realize that the ultranationalists are generally the extremists in Turkey, they take their secularism to extremes. It's a stealth religion in a way.
An example being Veli Kucuk (former general) was planning on having Orhan Pamuk assasinated.
I know us that live in the USA generally associate the extremists with religious institutions, but in Turkey it generally leans the other way around.
RamzaIsCool said:
Same here, the only people that wear hijab in my family are my mom, one of my aunts and my grandmother. No one else does, and no ones going to be forcing anyone to do so.
ElectricBlue187
Member
that is a strange position of secularists to take. I know they're trying to modernize the country, but banning people from wearing what they want isn't exactly a policy derived from liberalism
ElectricBlue187 said:
Secularism and Liberalism don't go hand in hand together. There are/were many Liberals who are religious. Turkey's secularism stems from a strongly nationalist position, carving out a Turkish homeland and not allowing pan-religious feeling or ethnic minorities to get in the way.
thesoapster
Member
Azih said:
Exactly...people should choose religion, not have it thrust upon them.
Xapati said:
There's a difference between a school promoting a specific religion versus a student who has chosen their faith and wants to show it.
Count Dookkake
Member
Zapages said:
Why are you lying?
ElectricBlue187 said:
Secular != liberal
Azih said:
Ban all religious paraphernalia from the universities then. Save it for home or the magic building of your choice.
Phobophile
A scientist and gentleman in the manner of Batman.
Turkey lets women into universities now?
bggrthnjsus
Member
women should not be allowed in schools
Count Dookkake
Member
Azih said:
Keep what? :lol We don't wear funny hats or chant funny things. If you guys kept your toys and trinkets at home and not at school, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Powerslave
Banned
Count Dookkake said:
At least religious people don't whore their sisters.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
This place never ceases to amaze me with its combination of ridiculously oversimplified stereotypes and boundless naiveties.
:lol
Powerslave said:
:lol
thesoapster said:
I would ban the Jewish kippah but cross necklaces aren't inherently religious, so christians pretty much don't have anything attire-wise that is religious, unless you went to school dressed as a monk and I doubt anyone is dumb enough to do that.
I support the headscarf ban. Women shouldn't be forced to cover their faces even if they grow up being brainwashed to believe this is good for them. Banning headscarves is a very moderate and liberal way of improving Islam by allowing women to be a little bit more equal to men.
There is such a thing as moderate or secular Islam, it's very much like christianity in europe or america (where most people consider themselves christian, but aren't hardcore religious), and that is what should be promoted in today's society, not the sharia style fundamentalist Islam that oppresses women and homosexuals. I feel very sad for Turkey now because they are going one step backwards with this decision.
Souldriver
Member
I'm not sure if I like it. Turkey was like the model country for when it comes to seperation of church and state.
Azih said:
I was gonna say this exact thing, forcing a woman to not wear a headscarf is equally as bad as forcing them to wear a headscarf. Why should a woman be kept from pursuing higher education just because she wants to wear a cloth on her head?
Powerslave
Banned
Souldriver said:
What does wearing a headscarf have to do with that?
Count Dookkake
Member
Powerslave said:
No, they just hide in the closet, rape kids, mutilate kids' genitals, hold back science, prey on the poor and uneducated, etc.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Powerslave said:
:lol
Dark Octave
Banned
Why would anybody in their right mind let a piece of cloth keep them from pursuing a higher education?GSG Flash said:
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I can't support a headscarf ban in good conscience, but I'm also concerned at the direction Turkey's taking. Let's face it: in modern times, the more Islamic a country is, the generally crappier it ends up. Turkey's secularism may have come at the cost of some democracy, but other Muslim countries that didn't embrace secularism have even less democracy (and suffer on virtually every other scale as well).
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