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[Unknown Soldier]

Really long series of posts but both illuminating and terrifying at the same time

There are a number of theories as to what might have happened in the 2019-2020 timeframe which mysteriously suddenly caused quality of student to steeply decline but I can think of one big one off the top of my head

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Really long series of posts but both illuminating and terrifying at the same time

There are a number of theories as to what might have happened in the 2019-2020 timeframe which mysteriously suddenly caused quality of student to steeply decline but I can think of one big one off the top of my head

Looks like online learning doesn't really cut it, at least for mathematics.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Gee, I wonder what it could be?!

 

[Joramun]

When your schools focus on wokeness and activism. This is the outcome.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

When your schools focus on wokeness and activism. This is the outcome.

More likely covid/remote learning.

 

[kruis]

More likely covid/remote learning.

There's another component.

As a major cause at UCSD in particular, they point to a significant increase in students admitted from "Local Control Funding Formula (LCFF)" schools, which are "California public schools in which more than 75 percent of the school's total enrollment is composed of students who are identified as either eligible for free or reduced-price meals, or English learners, or foster youth."

It seems these students graduate with low grades but are still able to get into UCSD, but they need lots of extra classes to bring them up to speed (if that's even possible). It sounds like a grand idea to make it possible for these students to even attend university, but on the other hand, these students are also most likely to drop out and they'll be burdened with student debt without getting any degrees.

 

[Durien]

Really long series of posts but both illuminating and terrifying at the same time

There are a number of theories as to what might have happened in the 2019-2020 timeframe which mysteriously suddenly caused quality of student to steeply decline but I can think of one big one off the top of my head

Let me tell you. As a parent that had a 2nd grader and an 8th grader at the start of the pandemic ask me if I am surprised. You all have read my rants about this before and now it is coming to bite them in the ass. For those who didn't read my rants quick rundown:

Class going from 6 hours to 30 minute youtube session. Not even live. You can imagine how that was for a 2nd grader.

Homework was about feelings and not about actual work.

Teachers advancing kids who literally could not do the work and got passed along anyway.

No summer school to help those waaaaaay behind.

My personal favorite, kids doing none of the work literally (straight from the teachers mouth) but they were forced to advance them anyway.

 

[ADiTAR]

That's ok, in a few years none of those people will be needed. We'll have robots and AI.

 

[taylor34]

Part of the reason is they stopped using standardized tests for admissions. Pretty dumb. You can cheat your way to a 4.0 in high school possibly, but it's pretty hard to fake a standardized test. You have to have it just to weed out the fakers.

Then you have the Chatgpt issue too the last couple years which isn't helping either.

But frankly, it isn't much better when you get to college anymore, so many of the teachers are unqualified to actually teach. They may know their subject but are the worst teachers imaginable.

Someone will have to inform me why the University of Michigan needs 500 H1b's on staff, lol. You have a state run school bringing in people from other countries to run it. That can't be good either.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

More likely covid/remote learning.

That isn't going to suddenly cause a change after literally one year of being a thing, like what is shown here. The only thing that could cause that kind of sharp difference is a deliberate change to the makeup of admittances.

 

[EviLore]

Here's a more detailed look at the math test the UCSD students took:

The UC system eliminated standardized test scores from consideration in admission. California public schools have moved toward "equity grading" which passes everyone and massively lowers the threshold for a high grade.

The result is that students who can't complete first grade math are being admitted into a top 5 public university.

They're actively trying to destroy society.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Yeah, but if the students weren't passed in lower grades, they might feel bad and the schools might look bad. Think of the bigger picture here, people.

 

[poppabk]

That isn't going to suddenly cause a change after literally one year of being a thing, like what is shown here. The only thing that could cause that kind of sharp difference is a deliberate change to the makeup of admittances.

Yeah don't understand how people are jumping to Covid when they are talking about remedial elementary and middle school grade math that anyone being admitted would have taken before covid.

 

[Mistake]

If you think it's bad now, wait until these people get into healthcare or build infrastructure without basic math skills. There's stories of a similar situation in the UK where nurses give the wrong meds and can't speak properly with doctors, killing patients

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Don't worry, AI will fix this and every other problem.

Instead, you should be happy that white privilege is gone, now you are all equally dumb.

 

[EverydayBeast]

A lot of aggressive responses and I'm not defending people who aren't good at math but they don't do a good job of transitioning high school to college, looking at one of those fractions wouldn't definitely take me a minute or two.

 

[Dacvak]

Covid/remote learning is a small piece of this, but the biggest issue is how reliant on short-burst dopaminergic experiences kids (and even adults) have become accustomed to in the last ~5 years. Social media, certain games, and platforms like TikTok are rewiring our brains, and making what we used to consider "normal societal experiences" seem boring and unrewarding in comparison.

It's a mixture of addiction and a fundamental misunderstanding of the parasocial nature of platforms like TikTok. Then you have kids who have been raised and babysat by iPads essentially from birth. And with AI, things are only going to get worse from here.

Let me give you a personal example. Before I was able to drive, I had a portable GPS. (It was a Bluetooth GPS module that I used with my PDA, if you remember those.) So from the moment I needed to understand navigation, I had something else doing the thinking for me. The result is that I have a shriveled up, underused hippocampus, and if you dropped me off 20 minutes from my own house without a phone, I'm not sure I'd be able to make it home without help. Now amplify that by 1000, and that's what kids today will be dealing with when it comes to creativity and problem solving.

I really think the future looks grim, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

A lot of aggressive responses and I'm not defending people who aren't good at math but they don't do a good job of transitioning high school to college, looking at one of those fractions wouldn't definitely take me a minute or two.

It's not students's fault. The system is completely broken, this is happening everywhere in the west, it's not an American thing. And unfortunately not reduced to Maths. They also fail at reading comprehension, for fucks sake. It's an evil scheme to make future generations dumber, with no logical skills or critical thinking. Parents need to be aware of this and fight for their kids education.

 

[Seyken]

This all looks like the exact textbook definition of what happened here in Brazil 25 or so years ago.

Laws were passed to essentially forbid public schools from holding kids back a year for low grades.

They also started creating programs incentivizing universities to accept students from the aforementioned public schools, because "universities should be for everyone".

Instead of strengthening the fundamentals, they focused on giving everyone with crappy and underdeveloped knowledge and skills acess to higher education.

The result is an absolute disaster and akin to what you guys are seeing right now. We are a country full of dumb people.

This is done by design, with method, and it works.

 

[PSYGN]

 

[MayauMiao]

This is what happens when everybody gets a trophy.

 

[Big-G]

Here's a more detailed look at the math test the UCSD students took:

The UC system eliminated standardized test scores from consideration in admission. California public schools have moved toward "equity grading" which passes everyone and massively lowers the threshold for a high grade.

The result is that students who can't complete first grade math are being admitted into a top 5 public university.

They're actively trying to destroy society.

Policy driven by feelings and not logical analysis. There are a lot of problems with our education system and our societal culture around education, but simply lowering the standards for everyone is some smooth-brain thinking.

 

[Durien]

Yeah, but if the students weren't passed in lower grades, they might feel bad and the schools might look bad. Think of the bigger picture here, people.

"This!!! 100% this!!!" When my daughter brought home the how are you feeling? Homework I kept asking qhere the real homework is. The teacher explained they qere concerned for their mental health. I reported with, "Well I'm concerned for her future." *teacher chuckled uncomfortably*

 

[AJUMP23]

Maybe focusing on social issues isn't the best thing to do in school.

 

[Pagusas]

One of the many reasons I'm not to worried about being aged out as I get older. The people coming in behind us are so unprepared for the world and generally so uneducated it's going to make us older Millennials and GenX'ers extremely valuable.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

When your schools focus on wokeness and activism. This is the outcome.

How about reading before?

 

[Durien]

Maybe focusing on social issues isn't the best thing to do in school.

Social issues should be discussed at school because kids need understand the world around them. However, it shouldn't drive curriculum. Curriculum should be driven by a mission statement of "what do kids need to be successful?" I am nor saying it needs to be all math and science. Bring trades into school again (wood shop, metal shop, etc) and teachers teach with the power to fail kids who don't meet the requirements. Also don't dumb down the requirements...

 

[Risible]

When your schools focus on wokeness and activism. This is the outcome.

What a terrible take. Are you sure you're not one of the incoming UCSD students?

 

[Mistake]

What a terrible take. Are you sure you're not one of the incoming UCSD students?

It can be a multitude of factors, that included. By the time I left high school they started putting in legit mental retards in regular classes. When I was in college there were people who didn't even know what a negative number was. This has been happening for a while now, mostly because of the no child left behind act, and funding incentives for passing students

 

[poppabk]

That isn't going to suddenly cause a change after literally one year of being a thing, like what is shown here. The only thing that could cause that kind of sharp difference is a deliberate change to the makeup of admittances.

Yeah not sure how people think remote learning resulted in 21% not being able to solve 9+9=? (Though to be fair my guess is most of the ones who got it wrong did the slightly harder math by not reading the question properly)

 

[Heart_Attack]

Good luck finding a good high school out there.

 

[Dice]

You can't even really call it Marxist when they change it to "From each regardless of their ability, to each according to their wants"

 

[calico]

 

[ProtoByte]

It's not students's fault. The system is completely broken, this is happening everywhere in the west, it's not an American thing. And unfortunately not reduced to Maths. They also fail at reading comprehension, for fucks sake. It's an evil scheme to make future generations dumber, with no logical skills or critical thinking. Parents need to be aware of this and fight for their kids education.

You're making it out like parents and the students are not the ones partially driving this. People view schooling these days solely as a piece of paper that magically makes life easier. Genuine holistic education doesn't matter until it suddenly does.

Blaming "the system" is utterly ridiculous.

 

[kruis]

Policy driven by feelings and not logical analysis. There are a lot of problems with our education system and our societal culture around education, but simply lowering the standards for everyone is some smooth-brain thinking.

We're absolutely living in the "weak men create hard times" era. How are we ever going to compete with China where they value education above anything else when we in the west keep lowering our educational standards because school has to be fun and not a single child must be left behind.

 

[ProtoByte]

There have been so many reports like this over the last 5 years at least, and people will still find a way to be in denial when someone like Trump of all people says this:

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

When I moved out here it was just a given that UCSD student = smart (and SDSU student = drunk and probably kinda stupid, but definitely drunk)

But yeah, this is a natural consequence of how we 'teach' our kids times a COVID multiplier.

I'll also throw in that math doesn't get the respect it deserves in American education. "I'm just not good at math" and "I'll never use <insert high school level math subject> in the real world" have been common accepted sentiments for at least a few decades.

A high school diploma shouldn't be awarded to someone who can't handle the basics of reading, writing, and arithmetic. That "math assessment" shouldn't be an "assessment" after the fact, it needs to be something you have to pass before you can even get into college. You know what, I'm not even against a remedial option in principle... it just needs to not be at the actual university. Get yo' bad-at-math ass to the community college or something, take some general bullshit, and take your middle school and high school level math classes again and pass an actual test that shows you've actually gotten to the level you need to be.

Believe it or not, there are people that will actually step up if you actually make them earn something, and those are the people you want in college.

Or you can hand out bullshit degrees to retards who will develop no skills to reasonably pay off the debts incurred while falling for a scam level college education.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

You're making it out like parents and the students are not the ones partially driving this. People view schooling these days solely as a piece of paper that magically makes life easier. Genuine holistic education doesn't matter until it suddenly does.

Blaming "the system" is utterly ridiculous.

Most young people don't have the intelectual insight to understand the gravity of the issue. Yes, the smartest ones do, but you can't ask them to fix this by themselves. As for parents, first they should know the problem exists (most are unaware); second, fighting the education system and the state apparatus is a titanic effort. Parents and kids are in a position of weakness against the forces driving their intelectual collapse.

Even in this forum of grown ups, you have people admitting that they ask Grok or whatever digital oracle for info instead of searching and filtering by themselves. The public powers are interested in us using our brains as little as possible and this process starts from elementary school.

We have a personal responsibility in cultivating our minds, but there is a ,much bigger force pushing against us.

 

[Toots]

We're absolutely living in the "weak men create hard times" era. How are we ever going to compete with China where they value education above anything else when we in the west keep lowering our educational standards because school has to be fun and not a single child must be left behind.

I'm waiting for the men who could create fast times (at ridgemont height)

 

[Hypereides]

This bothers me on a personal level.

Looking at the questionnaire sheet and seeing the dropping percentage list is shocking. The posed problems aren't even convoluted and as intricate as you see in higher level Uni math.

I have some tinfoil hat hypothesis what's the causation behind this, but the core matter here is that its really a critical educational issue the U.S. needs to address, stat. Math is like the root and supporting pillar of knowledge and science. This is painting a picture of future deficit which is going to weaken individual problem solving skills and have a very real, and noticeable, impact on development aspects of society. A plausible link could even be drawn to the degradation in creative mediums in America and the west.

I was actually worried, at one point, the politically correct crowd would set their eyes onto "redefining" or "re-arranging" mathematics for being "misogynistic" or some utterly weird shit like that.

When I moved out here it was just a given that UCSD student = smart (and SDSU student = drunk and probably kinda stupid, but definitely drunk)

But yeah, this is a natural consequence of how we 'teach' our kids times a COVID multiplier.

I'll also throw in that math doesn't get the respect it deserves in American education. "I'm just not good at math" and "I'll never use <insert high school level math subject> in the real world" have been common accepted sentiments for at least a few decades.

A high school diploma shouldn't be awarded to someone who can't handle the basics of reading, writing, and arithmetic. That "math assessment" shouldn't be an "assessment" after the fact, it needs to be something you have to pass before you can even get into college. You know what, I'm not even against a remedial option in principle... it just needs to not be at the actual university. Get yo' bad-at-math ass to the community college or something, take some general bullshit, and take your middle school and high school level math classes again and pass an actual test that shows you've actually gotten to the level you need to be.

Believe it or not, there are people that will actually step up if you actually make them earn something, and those are the people you want in college.

Or you can hand out bullshit degrees to retards who will develop no skills to reasonably pay off the debts incurred while falling for a scam level college education.

I very much agree, but some perceive its applications, both real world or not, to be too abstract to grasp and apply in real scenarios.

 

[DaciaJC]

With each passing day, reality more and more resembles Idiocracy.

 

[poppabk]

The big question is what they turn out at the end. I don't think kids from shitty schools are inherently less intelligent but are they permanently screwed after getting a shitty foundational education? Also how are they picking these kids for admittance?

 

[Northeastmonk]

I don't get why kids suck at math these days. Even non college level kids don't do well at math. IMO math takes work and kids don't want to work.

I don't want to be that old man shouting at clouds, but kids are lazy. Math takes some degree of work, be that mental or physically writing out an equation. It's so much easier in other classes because you don't have to follow a set of numbers. It probably reflects this dysfunctional pattern of the brain rot generation.

 

[jason10mm]

I'm waiting for the men who could create fast times (at ridgemont height)

Not the clip from that movie I was waiting for....here let me help you

 

[P:axMagellanic]

Covid/remote learning is a small piece of this, but the biggest issue is how reliant on short-burst dopaminergic experiences kids (and even adults) have become accustomed to in the last ~5 years. Social media, certain games, and platforms like TikTok are rewiring our brains, and making what we used to consider "normal societal experiences" seem boring and unrewarding in comparison.

It's a mixture of addiction and a fundamental misunderstanding of the parasocial nature of platforms like TikTok. Then you have kids who have been raised and babysat by iPads essentially from birth. And with AI, things are only going to get worse from here.

Let me give you a personal example. Before I was able to drive, I had a portable GPS. (It was a Bluetooth GPS module that I used with my PDA, if you remember those.) So from the moment I needed to understand navigation, I had something else doing the thinking for me. The result is that I have a shriveled up, underused hippocampus, and if you dropped me off 20 minutes from my own house without a phone, I'm not sure I'd be able to make it home without help. Now amplify that by 1000, and that's what kids today will be dealing with when it comes to creativity and problem solving.

I really think the future looks grim, but I hope I'm wrong.

We see this in the gaming side of the forum. People struggling to navigate a game world without a quest compass.

 

[Valonquar]

 

[Magic Carpet]

I send thousands each year to my local ISD in property taxes.
I think I'm going to start demanding the money back.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

I'm waiting for the men who could create fast times (at ridgemont height)

You'd have found them about 5 miles from UCSD as the crow flies.

 

[Sub_Level]

More kids need to be held back a grade if they legit can't do the homework and tests. Most of those held back will probably be boys, since girls seem to be excelling at school these days, but its necessary. Its a cold solution but its an effective one.

 

[jason10mm]

More kids need to be held back a grade if they legit can't do the homework and tests. Most of those held back will probably be boys, since girls seem to be excelling at school these days, but its necessary. Its a cold solution but its an effective one.

The (sadly incorrect) assumption you are making is that these kids would catch up with a remedial year. But I suspect the kids in question would NEVER improve, because the culture they value and the 'family' situation they come from place zero value on school.

Schools would do better if they segregate the kids who DO show academic aptitude and support and focus on them while keeping the rest at bay. Then at least the kids who want to learn wouldn't be held back by the rest.

We need to get past this "12 grades or turn 18" mantra and start sending non academic teens into blue collar jobs where they can apprentice into a skill, not waste time sitting class taking attention from the small number of bookworms.