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UFC 167 |OT| The Decisioning of Johnny Hendricks by the Coward GSP
- Thread starter Lambda Pie
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Ether_Snake
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The term "damage" will no longer be used as a descriptor when discussing the scoring of a round. It will be replaced by "effective".
"Effective Striking" - Heavier strikes that have a visible impact on the opponent will be given more weight than the number of strikes landed.
So punches to the stomach don't matter because they don't lead to visible impacts on the opponent? Doesn't really make sense.
Are we going to outlaw beards too, and shave everyone's heads, otherwise it hides the visible impacts?
Jest Chillin
Member
The fact is GSP didn't out perform Hendricks in any area of MMA. So your point here is meaningless.
Body shots show by fighter reaction the same as leg kicks. In order to be considered effective it has to have either an immediate or cumulative effect on the opponent. GSP did very little body work in this fight so it doesn't even apply.
Can Crusher
Banned
GSP fans shouldn't take it personally, nobody is blaming him. The judges are just morons, and yes, it does actually harm the sport.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I'm down for no beards. Boxing made them illegal for a reason.
The term damage isn't restricted to visible damage. The fact that you find it hard to tell that Jonhy's strikes were hurting GSP way more than the other way around doesn't make most of the fight any less one-sided, it just gives you that prime '94 Rick Moranis type vibe.
LiquidSolid
Member
Except GSP is a far bigger draw than Silva.
Anyone who's watched an Ace pitcher's velocity dip from the mid-90s to the low-90s knows that it's the start of a trend. GSP is the world champ, but he's been vulnerable for the last year at least.
I disagree with the contention that Hendricks can never develop into a draw. He did a great job of pushing the pace, and is a charismatic speaker.
That plus a couple more of his signature knockouts will do the trick for anyone.
reggieandTFE
Member
You are crazy. White stepped in because he's a monopolist that wants total control of his organization. He couldn't give a shit about any fighter.
Jest Chillin
Member
How does him refusing to allow reporters to ask GSP how soon he thinks he'll fight again mean he's a monopolist? Georges was asked once and avoided giving a solid answer because he said he'd just been in a war and needed time to think. That he couldn't even think at the moment. White stepped in when the question was repeatedly rephrased and told the press to stop asking the same question when Georges has already expressed that he doesn't want to answer it. Nothing about that is controlling or shows a desire to monopolize.
HEALTH_DISCO
Banned
Mises au sol: GSP 3 / Hendricks 2
Coups à la tête réussis: GSP 47 / Hendricks 56
Coups au corps réussis: GSP 26 / Hendricks 3
Coups aux jambes réussis: GSP 28 / Hendricks 22
Total de coups réussis: GSP 101 / Hendricks 81
Total de coups tentés: GSP 125 / Hendricks 127
Pourcentage de coups réussis: GSP 83,4% / Hendricks 60,8%
Les stats donnent raison à GSP et aux juges....
Coups à la tête réussis: GSP 47 / Hendricks 56
Coups au corps réussis: GSP 26 / Hendricks 3
Coups aux jambes réussis: GSP 28 / Hendricks 22
Total de coups réussis: GSP 101 / Hendricks 81
Total de coups tentés: GSP 125 / Hendricks 127
Pourcentage de coups réussis: GSP 83,4% / Hendricks 60,8%
Les stats donnent raison à GSP et aux juges....
It's not kata and it's not ballet. It's a fight.
GSP got the shit beat out of him and had to immediately go to the hospital.
Johnny Hendricks was doing interviews, walking around normally, and looked like he'd just been to the gym. So tell me...do you really think GSP won that fight? Do you, really?
Numbers on paper are nice, but if "Les stats" are what we rely upon, then there's no need to even watch the fight and there's little use for "aux juges" to begin with.
If combat sports were about counting up punches, they'd put sensors in their gloves and let them having a fencing match with their fists. That is not how a fight is scored.
If someone lands 5 jabs and then gets dropped with a body shot, they are not winning the striking battle 5 to 1. In fact they aren't winning at all.
If someone lands 5 jabs and then gets dropped with a body shot, they are not winning the striking battle 5 to 1. In fact they aren't winning at all.
polyh3dron
Banned
I've been arguing with some dumb fucks on twitter who think exactly this. It's maddening. They seem to forget that Goldie tells them that fights are scored on "effective striking, grappling, aggression and Octagon control." It's like they don't hear the words "effective" or "aggression".
Yeah, really. After every close fight there are Sunday morning judges armed with FightMetric stats trying to prove a robbery. Strike numbers don't mean anything without the context of power ("significant strikes" is a wide and pretty pointless term) and the flow of the fight.
Dana wasn't wrong. Dana runs a business. You can't just take "time off" when YOU want to ... well barring vacation time etc.
If Georges has something serious going on ... he needs to have it diagnosed by someone and then take the leave ... and vacate the title in the process.
If Georges has something serious going on ... he needs to have it diagnosed by someone and then take the leave ... and vacate the title in the process.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
I wonder how dark it is in Georges' head right now.
You don't even understand
Ether_Snake
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That's because he didn't GSP to cement his "no not any time soon" comments. Pretty obvious.
Jest Chillin
Member
He just said he didn't know. What makes you think he'd have said more?
To the question of if GSP can give any insight on whether or not he meant retirement or a long break he said
GSP said:
Reporter pushed for more clarification asking "Is there any chance at all this is the last time we'll ever see you?"
GSP said:
Then a reporter asks "Georges is this an extension of what you've talked about to some of us about the way you obsess over an opponent. That it just is so much that you just need a break?"
And that's when Dana steps in and says don't answer that question. Because the line of questioning was turning to pry on what GSP had already stated 3 seperate times was apart of his personal life that he doesn't want to talk about. Then ANOTHER reporter tries to rephrase the question in French to get it past Dana and Dana interrupts GSP to reiterate that the question is out of bounds.
Seriously watch it again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OL9KQjL05M&feature=share&t=41m17s
Dana only stepped in to keep the reporters from dogging GSP for a definitive answer to retirement and for specifics on his personal problems when GSP didn't want to give an answer yet. The man said he has to think about it and he wants to keep his personal life personal MULTIPLE TIMES.
Maybe all GSP needs to do is heal up and talk to his people and then he decides he wants to continue fighting. Then what does he look like calling out retirement like that and then coming back? Meanwhile if he talks to his people and decides later he wants to reitre, he still can and there's no conflict. It's not as if Dana is locking in dates for the rematch immediately after the Presser.
polyh3dron
Banned
Faux.
The scoring system is the culprit, its shit, in UFC you have to murder someone in the octagon to get a 10-8 for the round. It rarely happens, its 10-9 for the guy who "wins", regardless if its by one takedown, a few jabs or a complete Jean Claude Van Damme style beatdown.
This means i can beat the living shit out of you for 2 rounds, pummel you so hard your grandma can feel it, but if you slightly nudge the other 3 rounds by a few strikes or one takedown. You still "win" the fight.
MMA nerds and the enthusiasts can justify this fight, people on sherdog forums etc. but the average UFC viewer cannot, they dont care about this scoring system, or what counts for what, or whether UFC are responsible for the refs or judges, they are casuals, they dont give a shit.
A crappy finish is just that, a crappy finish. And its probably why Dana White was pissed, he fully knows his own scoring system well and probably knows why GSP scored higher deep down, but Dana White is a promoter first, a "MMA sports dude" second.
I was at a sports bar and people were fucking livid, despite mostly being pro GSP, casuals love GSP because UFC tells them he is awesome and he is good looking superhero dude from Canada. And yet they were unhappy, throwing all sorts of accusations that UFC was corrupt, that it was no better than boxing and its various scandals. They dont understand the system fully, they dont understand that UFC does not appoint the judges, all they see is a shitty finish to a fight and Dana knows this.
This is not the first time you have seen a finish like this, we get them quite often, and its sure as fuck not the last time. They wont change the scoring system.
Everyone technically did their job, the judges scored the fight probably right, depending on ones look on the first round. The system however is broken, it does not function well to give one a proper idea of how a fight went and who really won.
This means i can beat the living shit out of you for 2 rounds, pummel you so hard your grandma can feel it, but if you slightly nudge the other 3 rounds by a few strikes or one takedown. You still "win" the fight.
MMA nerds and the enthusiasts can justify this fight, people on sherdog forums etc. but the average UFC viewer cannot, they dont care about this scoring system, or what counts for what, or whether UFC are responsible for the refs or judges, they are casuals, they dont give a shit.
A crappy finish is just that, a crappy finish. And its probably why Dana White was pissed, he fully knows his own scoring system well and probably knows why GSP scored higher deep down, but Dana White is a promoter first, a "MMA sports dude" second.
I was at a sports bar and people were fucking livid, despite mostly being pro GSP, casuals love GSP because UFC tells them he is awesome and he is good looking superhero dude from Canada. And yet they were unhappy, throwing all sorts of accusations that UFC was corrupt, that it was no better than boxing and its various scandals. They dont understand the system fully, they dont understand that UFC does not appoint the judges, all they see is a shitty finish to a fight and Dana knows this.
This is not the first time you have seen a finish like this, we get them quite often, and its sure as fuck not the last time. They wont change the scoring system.
Everyone technically did their job, the judges scored the fight probably right, depending on ones look on the first round. The system however is broken, it does not function well to give one a proper idea of how a fight went and who really won.
Jest Chillin
Member
Dana didn't set the rules. They're the Unified Rules of MMA that the NSAC operates with. He'd change them if he could. And even MMA enthusiasts and fighters think Hendricks won that fight.
The 10-point-must system is retarded for MMA, but it's not the culprit for this mess. There are fights like Jones-Gustaffson where the guy who loses the war wins on a round by round basis, but there's no way you can score 3 rounds for GSP in this fight unless you don't understand MMA or scoring criteria.
1. Effective Striking (Hendricks)
2. Effective Grappling (Draw)
3. Aggression (Hendricks)
4. Octagon Control (Hendricks)
GSP wasn't getting the better of Hendricks at any point in that round, it's not even close. It's a single question mark kick vs countless uppercuts, elbows and a knee to the face in terms of effective strikes.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I personally don't see anything wrong with the 10-point system that would be accurately addressed by a replacement system. The only way to fix the current system is to get judges who actually know how the sport actually works and to ensure there's no "conflicts of interest" between the judges, fighters or elements of the gambling community.
Personally though: I would get rid of decisions. If no-one can finish the fight then it's a draw by default. If Manchester United are playing Chelsea and no-one scores, they don't ask the referees/linesmen who they think had better plays, shots and "field control." It would completely destroy the modern aspects of the sport though. That and I get the impression that American viewers don't like the concept of a "draw/tie game." So whatever. Just get better judges. And whatever you do, don't think that making it a 100-point system or using decimal points would be a better system, as it's the most retarded idea I've ever heard.
Personally though: I would get rid of decisions. If no-one can finish the fight then it's a draw by default. If Manchester United are playing Chelsea and no-one scores, they don't ask the referees/linesmen who they think had better plays, shots and "field control." It would completely destroy the modern aspects of the sport though. That and I get the impression that American viewers don't like the concept of a "draw/tie game." So whatever. Just get better judges. And whatever you do, don't think that making it a 100-point system or using decimal points would be a better system, as it's the most retarded idea I've ever heard.
matty2Dfraud
Banned
just watched the ppv...
fucking fraudulent.
fucking fraudulent.
Host Samurai
Member
GSP should just retire and call it a career. He looked terrible on Saturday night. He looked smaller and and hes lost his explosiveness. Even in the Diaz fight he gassed and struggled to get Nick FN Diaz down. He also got lit up on the feet a few times.
They should just set up a tourney with Hendricks, Lawler, Condit, Shields, Lombard, Wooley and Mia
They should just set up a tourney with Hendricks, Lawler, Condit, Shields, Lombard, Wooley and Mia
http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/18/georges-st-pierre-pregnancy-illness-derail-ufc-fighter/?adid=tmzsports
oh shit. Poor GSP if it's true
Agreed. I'd say a large majority of bad decisions come down to incompetent judging, not the scoring criteria.
http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/18/georges-st-pierre-pregnancy-illness-derail-ufc-fighter/?adid=tmzsports
oh shit. Poor GSP if it's true
Feel bad for him if that's true.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/18/georges-st-pierre-pregnancy-illness-derail-ufc-fighter/?adid=tmzsports
oh shit. Poor GSP if it's true
GSP is an admitted poon hound, so that makes sense. Hopefully she's American, because Canadian child support laws are even more fucked up than here.
I hope his dad's ok.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
I dont buy it. GSP only has eyes for Mandy Moore.
Ether_Snake
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You get rid of decisions and you will end up with very different fights, probably more submissions/takedowns. If you add a round to make up for it, then you possibly end up with more fights stopped by doctors.
St-Pierre, Hendricks, Woodley and Cerrone earned $50,000 post-fight bonuses for their work.
Main Card (Pay-per-view)
Georges St-Pierre ($400,000 + no win bonus = $400,000) def. Johny Hendricks ($50,000)
Rashad Evans ($125,000 + $125,000 = $250,000) def. Chael Sonnen ($100,000)
Robbie Lawler ($83,000 + $83,000 = $166,000) def. Rory MacDonald ($50,000)
Tyron Woodley ($52,000 + $52,000 = $104,000) def. Josh Koscheck ($78,000)
Ali Bagautinov ($10,000 + $10,000 = $20,000) def. Tim Elliott ($12,000)
Preliminary Card (FOX Sports 1)
Donald Cerrone ($48,000 +$48,000 = $96,000) def. Evan Dunham ($25,000)
Thales Leites ($10,000 + $10,000 = $20,000) def. Ed Herman ($40,000)
Rick Story ($27,000 + $27,000 = $54,000) def. Brian Ebersole ($18,000)
Erik Perez ($18,000 + $18,000 = $36,000) def. Edwin Figueroa ($12,000)
Preliminary Card (YouTube)
Jason High ($15,000 + $15,000 = $30,000) def. Anthony Lapsley ($8,000)
Sergio Pettis ($8,000 + $8,000 = $16,000) def. Will Campuzano ($10,000)
Gian Villante ($19,000 + $19,000 = $38,000) def. Cody Donovan ($8,000)
Main Card (Pay-per-view)
Georges St-Pierre ($400,000 + no win bonus = $400,000) def. Johny Hendricks ($50,000)
Rashad Evans ($125,000 + $125,000 = $250,000) def. Chael Sonnen ($100,000)
Robbie Lawler ($83,000 + $83,000 = $166,000) def. Rory MacDonald ($50,000)
Tyron Woodley ($52,000 + $52,000 = $104,000) def. Josh Koscheck ($78,000)
Ali Bagautinov ($10,000 + $10,000 = $20,000) def. Tim Elliott ($12,000)
Preliminary Card (FOX Sports 1)
Donald Cerrone ($48,000 +$48,000 = $96,000) def. Evan Dunham ($25,000)
Thales Leites ($10,000 + $10,000 = $20,000) def. Ed Herman ($40,000)
Rick Story ($27,000 + $27,000 = $54,000) def. Brian Ebersole ($18,000)
Erik Perez ($18,000 + $18,000 = $36,000) def. Edwin Figueroa ($12,000)
Preliminary Card (YouTube)
Jason High ($15,000 + $15,000 = $30,000) def. Anthony Lapsley ($8,000)
Sergio Pettis ($8,000 + $8,000 = $16,000) def. Will Campuzano ($10,000)
Gian Villante ($19,000 + $19,000 = $38,000) def. Cody Donovan ($8,000)
FaintColt388301
Member
I don't think this was posted yet. Dana White says GSP on track for Hendricks rematch
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-ufc-st-pierre-hendricks-rematch-20131118,0,281520.story#axzz2l4D9anat
We'll see if getting beat up was enough to get GSP focused and hungry enough to come back and make up for what happened or if Hendricks really is just better than him
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-ufc-st-pierre-hendricks-rematch-20131118,0,281520.story#axzz2l4D9anat
We'll see if getting beat up was enough to get GSP focused and hungry enough to come back and make up for what happened or if Hendricks really is just better than him
Ether_Snake
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Hendricks appears to be a potential sociopath, so I think he will beat GSP.
kidding, but his "I want to kill him" comment was dumb
Ninja Scooter
Member
Good to see Dana was able to bully a mentally fragile GSP into a rematch. Cause, you know, he owes it to the UFC or something. You should be proud, Dana.
Master Thespian
Member
"Your dad would want to see you silence the fucking controversy over this win before he dies, Georges. And you're gonna need all the fucking money you can get with a fucking bastard kid on the way."
Just reading this makes my blood boil. Stahp.
Hendricks was robbed, sure, but was that GSP's fault?
PS: I was rooting for Hendricks
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