Covered in the report.
So again, you're okay with a media that acts as an attack dog of the elites as long as they're attacking Labour leaders you don't happen to like? And yet you resent the modern Labour party's reputation as Tory-lite...
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UK Labour Leadership Crisis: Corbyn retained as leader by strong margin
- Thread starter Hazzuh
- Start date
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Covered in the report.
So again, you're okay with a media that acts as an attack dog of the elites as long as they're attacking Labour leaders you don't happen to like? And yet you resent the modern Labour party's reputation as Tory-lite...
Corbyn isn't trying to shift shit. He has zero interest in moving the centre of British politics - he's a protest politician. Blair shifted the centre of British politics. Jeremy is camped out in the same spot he's been in for his entire life and if that results in massive losses then so be it.
You don't shift the centre of British politics by *ignoring* the centre of British politics, which is what he is currently doing. Policies that focus on the bottom and top 10% in the country don't even register on the centre because they don't affect the majority of people. He isn't even trying to talk to the centre nevermind persuade them to move - you don't shift political dialogue by repeating the same stuff over 30 years and just hoping that people finally realise you were right and pay attention.
This is the key point, we are not as left leaning as many of us like to think in this country.
My issue with Corbyn is his total fuck up on the Remain front, not that I think he had the charisma to actually change minds, but the fact he seemingly made efforts to sabotage it just baffles me.
No, Of course I'm not okay wth it - but it simply *is*. Unless we're going to go all in on subverting and muzzling the press it's just the waters we swim in. It's shit that good labour leaders over the last century have suffered this barrage - being good at responding to it and managing it is part of the job unfortunately. Bleating about how unfair it is unfortunately doesn't get us anywhere so we just have to deal with it.
The fact he has lost the guardian, a newspaper that can hardly be described as a tool of the 'establishment', is a telling sign. The fact his own party MPs want rid of him is another - is every labour MP now a tool of the establishment? Are the left wing labour MPs who voted to get rid of him a right wing stooge? Are his numerous and clearly outlined fuck-ups and clear inability to run a major political party somehow inventions of his enemies?
The guy is unfit to run a political party. Running a party requires professional skills, just like managing any large and complex organisation does. Jeremy demonstrably doesn't have these - why would he, he's never had to run or be responsible for anything in his life! Managing a large party requires compromise and negotiation, because large parties are always coalitions - again, something Corbyn has no interest or desire to do.
I wonder how quickly this attitude will change when they start flinging their shit at the post-Corbyn leader too.
You are aware there were leaders before Corbyn right? That every labour leader in my lifetime got nuked by the populist press? Even Blair before the Sun switched over got attacked by the press (and Christ look at the hatchet job they did to Cherie, who got viciously attacked for having the temerity to be successful in her own right and for defending people in court!).
Yes, and I personally think that character assassination in the national press is hugely problematic, even when it happens to people I don't like.
The point is that now that the cat's out of the bag it's going to be impossible to put it back. The reaction to Corbyn is an escalation of the vitriol that recent leaderseven Milibandreceived. Now that they've discovered they can do it without repercussion I wouldn't be at all surprised if it becomes the new norm.
Because Corbyn has given them oh so much to work with. Because his own MPs can't stand him because he's a rude, ignorant guy who happily tolerates bullying by his supporters. Who threatens people with deselection.
And sorry but nothing is new in this world. Maybe that's just my age talking, but if you go back and read what they wrote about Kinnock you would be just as horrified. That man got horrifically attacked by the press in a way that was unbelievable, that to this day has left people with a completely wrong image of him in their heads.
Commander Jameson
Member
Since Corbyn is so awful, Smith should be able to walk the leadership election, no?
Threatened with deselection? You mean just like Corbyn was back in 2004? Or wait, is this one of those, 'everything I normally have problems with is fine when it's against someone I happen to not like' situations again...?
JonathanEx
Member
I don't want to dispute that the narrative has been against him from the start - and he hasn't been given a chance. That's absolutely been happening.
But what my point was more that regardless of what's there - they've not been fighting back. Or if they are fighting back, doing it well. Every report from within the Corbyn camp is that they can't organise a media grid, have no strategies, policies aren't agreed on, the top team will make decisions without the Shad Cabinet that they have to then get behind... and this isn't just anon sources, this is coming from the people who worked with him and tried to get behind him... but the team made it impossible.
Snarfington
Member
Not at all. He's going to lose brutally. This stuff isn't going to actually affect Corbyn supporters or their opinions.
I'm pretty sure they believe it's all baseless slander of their beloved leader by "the man" trying to keep them down. It's a shame because its becoming increasingly apparent the opposition isn't totally ideological - he seems to truly be an awful leader.
PJV3
Member
There are valid reasons to be furious with the PLP, so I'm expecting Corbyn to win. Unfortunately Corbyn would rather have 100 true leftist MP's than 350 with a wide range of positions.
travisbickle
Member
I reckon they can get over a million party members, and people will still be crying.
It's so funny, especially when they're not particularly left-wing. John McDonnell supposedly got scared over the suggestions of Thomas Piketty for fucks sake.
It's so funny, especially when they're not particularly left-wing. John McDonnell supposedly got scared over the suggestions of Thomas Piketty for fucks sake.
Because they are going to get annihilated in the next general election? It will be the worst result for the party in living memory?
One million passionate people doesn't mean anything when they are all who will vote for you?
I don't know how to fully articulate my frustration with every level of the Labour party (including Corbyn) right now. The members need to recognise that Corbyn was never in with a chance—and nobody with his policies was ever in with a chance. Corbyn needs to recognise that, no matter how large his mandate to lead was from the party membership, he can't lead a group that has no interest in being led by him. And the PLP needs to actually fucking stand for something beyond 'get into power and then decide'. The left wing is supposed to be the politics of hope, not the politics of making it up as you go along.
It's times like these I'm thankful that Shakespeare invented the phrase 'a pox on both your houses'.
It's times like these I'm thankful that Shakespeare invented the phrase 'a pox on both your houses'.
I would definitely agree with that. I think a proper leadership election might actually let someone with policies come forth, but as it is we're stuck with this referendum on Jeremy that everyone knows he's going to win and consign us to another lost decade.
It's like we have to learn the same lessons every generation. The majority of Corbyns supporters didn't live through the 80s, and don't understand why or how Blair got elected. So we have to go through that same agonising period all over again.
It's like we have to learn the same lessons every generation. The majority of Corbyns supporters didn't live through the 80s, and don't understand why or how Blair got elected. So we have to go through that same agonising period all over again.
travisbickle
Member
You could help us by pointing someone out.
PJV3
Member
I'm hoping for something a lot better than Blair, someone able to realise where they have to meet public opinion, but also able to say things can be better another way.
Blair constantly triangulating and always shifting rightwards has led us here, anything good done by the new labour era is ignored because of it.
There aren't any? From either side? That's my complaint!
Everyone involved is bad right now. No-one has policies that actually mean anything or will win an election. The only thing I do know is that under Corbyn labour are looking at unprecedented losses and that someone else might do better. At this stage given how bad things are it's worth a roll of the dice - at least a new leader won't be more interested in leading a rally for the socialist worker party than trying to manage his own MPs.
The only policy I have seen recently is Corbyns equality policy for small businesses which I absolutely loathe in every respect and think one of the most terrible policies I've heard in a long time - both in terms of what it does and how it looks. A labour leader kicking off a leadership battle with the headline policy being an extra regulation layer for small business is beyond fucking stupid.
travisbickle
Member
It's an audit that will show if small businesses are enacting discriminatory pay practises against female, minority and disabled employees ... from the Labour Party, the clue's in the name.
RedSparrows
Member
This, really, although my ire is more directed at the Corbyn fans than anything else, purely because I've had to read so much zealot, pseudo-Soviet bullshit over the past few weeks.
I'm a minority employee whose role literally included equalities (and hate crime). This regulation is dumb and this is not how you improve equalities. It's tokenism with an added flavour of central bueocracy.
It's also horrendous optics. You don't make this sort of thing the centre piece of your campaign. This is something you do on the side. The Single Equalities Act was a major, major piece of legislative work and a triumph for labour - 'socialism in one clause'. But they didn't make it the centre piece of the 2005 election, because that's not how you get elected. And without being elected you can't do anything.
That's what annoyed me too. He just seemed to drag his feet.
Randy Lanzarote
Member
Especially when it seems his own office wouldn't be compliant with his proposed legislation. I mean come it's politics 101.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...ypocrisy-over-gender-pay-gap-after-top-labour
CyclopsRock
Member
It's not like media dislike for a person is a flip of a coin though, is it? It's not some random thing.
No, they generally hate Labour leaders for serious reasons like looking weird while eating a sandwich or once having had sex with Dianne Abbott.
CyclopsRock
Member
That's good enough for me, tbh.
But no, really, they exist to sell newspapers, which we all know. They know that hammering Corbyn is more interesting than not hammering him and they feel free to do so because they know he'll never get elected. I don't think they're the reason he'll never get elected, though obviously they don't help. Then again, the media don't owe any candidates aid so, well, that's their prerogative I guess.
Edit: It's also entirely possible that a lot of the journalists writing things about him actually believe it and that they're believe - not unreasonably in a lot of cases - that they're painting an accurate picture when they do so. If it makes him look like an incompetent leader, maybe that's because he is?
In other news...
Nicktendo86
Member
So High Court hearing today, if it doesn't go Corbyn's way he could well be booted out.
In other news, ICM have the tories on a 16 point lead so #savejez
In other news, ICM have the tories on a 16 point lead so #savejez
His demented followers will still try to claim the Poll means nothing, or that it's a just people being conned by a terrified right wing press.
He's just a totally ineffectual leader, that has failed to even make a dent in the Tories when he should easily have turned them into a laughing stock.
Nicktendo86
Member
It's like I said the other day, at a very basic level he is an incompetent leader. I know parties tend to get a bounce when they get a new leader but for an opposition party to be in power for 6 years and to have changed leaders in the way that they did over the one issue that divides that party the most and STILL be 16 points behind is kinda unbelievable.
Here's a question if Dianne Abbott has sex in the woods and there's not a BBC microphone near by did it really happen?
Not even Tony Blair would look effective with this level of hostility from the PLP. Anyway, Corbyn will win easily, and the rest of the PLP will spend the next few months sniping away at him in the media, briefing against him, sitting on their hands in parliament and generally whinging until they find their next sacrificial lamb for the inevitable 2017 leadership election.
Diablo Rosso
Member
If it somehow ends up where Corbyn is booted off I wonder if other candidates will crawl out of the woodwork.
PJV3
Member
In other news...
And I used to say Ed Milliband was incompetent for not taking advantage of the public dislike of austerity. The man looks like a political genius next to Labour these days
When Corbyn was under leadership he didn't like, he proposed an annual contest.
Nicktendo86
Member
I'd laugh my head off if Burnham tried to run again.
He won't. He's a shoo in for a cosy seat in Manchester to see out all the chaos. Post 2020, it'll be between Khan, Burnham and maybe the likes of Jarvis (although while he's kept his head down he'll be damned by being part of the 180) to pick up the pieces.
PJV3
Member
I'm half expecting the clowns in Westminster would elect someone from the furthest right of the PLP, then there will be a massive implosion of the party anyway.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Burnham is one of the only people sho's come out of this looking pretty squeaky clean, even if he is a windsock.
CyclopsRock
Member
Nicktendo86
Member
I remember seeing a mock list going around the PLP akin to Corbyn's 'core group' list with Burnham as the sole member of 'core group jellyfish'.
I think he is regarded as a bit of a joke now, really. Among the PLP anyway.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Well at least UKIP won't make any further gains, right?
Wait, and the Lib Dems would lose even more seats? Where are you getting that vote share from?
Today's icm poll
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