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[Audioboxer]

Because, as long as we're in the union, we're not English or Scottish or Welsh or Northern Irish. We're British, and that means we do what Britain says. And Britain says leave. "Scotland" isn't being treated any more unfairly than anyone else anywhere in the United Kingdom who voted Remain - which, I want to stress, was 48% of all Britons. You're not some special story.



I don't think of it that way. There is no "our population" other than the British population, and all people in Britain ought to be treated equally - including the value of their vote.

Incidentally, that means if the vote had been 51/49 Remain, and votes in England gone very marginally to Leave and votes in Scotland had been the decisive factor for Remain, I would, rightly, be arguing that we should Remain.

Scotland isn't an area, it's a nation. That is precisely the kind of arrogance that is frustrating. Oh Scotland look at Manchester it voted remain as well!

England/Wales voted Leave, that's not Scotland's fault. We voted remain, as did NI. Like it or not this lovely Union really boils down to whatever England votes as a majority, and the rest of you are being pulled along regardless.

Which is why the Union is an absolute joke when it comes to certain matters. In terms of how politics goes there is "no" United Kingdom, it's what England says, the UK gets. I mean thank fuck we have a decent amount of stuff devolved up here or it would be continually whatever the Tories/English want at all times.

 

[SteveWD40]

It's the Brexit stuff that takes the headlines here, but look at the way the voting intention sits between Tory and Labour.

The Labour Party, in its current state, is a fucking embarrassment and absolutely incapable of winning a general election. How bad does this situation have to get before Corbyn and his supporters acknowledge it's just NOT working for Labour?

Corbyn doesn't care, he is in it for his principals rather than the good of the party or the country. Power probably scares the shit out of him as he would need to compromise, something he never did whe he was so back bench he was nearly falling off.

 

[Castef]

Just to stress, given these figures, if the referendum were held again today and turn-out was the same, the result would be:

Remain: 50.7%
Leave: 49.3%

and we've not even triggered Article 50 yet.

And they'd kept a country on the edge again.

If half of the people wants to leave, UK better leave the UE without keeping it in jeopardy.

 

[SKINNER!]

And they'd kept a country on the edge again.

If half of the people wants to leave, UK better leave the UE without keeping it in jeopardy.

So, what we've learned is, this referendum would've fucked shit up regardless of the outcome. The problem wasn't which side was gonna be chosen. It was the decision of having to choose a side in the first place. And who's to blame for that? hmmmmmmmmm I wonder.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Scotland might be a nation. That doesn't necessarily mean that it has to have special political representation. If you think it should, well, that makes you a nationalist. Amazingly, I'm not a nationalist, and the fact that Scotland is a nation is as irrelevant to me as the fact my own Gymraeg mamwlad is a nation. As long as the people of Scotland chose to be parts of the state of the United Kingdom, they are entitled to everything that any British citizen is entitled to. No more, no less. And that applies to votes. Every person's vote is worth the same as every other person's vote, regardless of which nation they belong to.

England and Wales didn't vote leave. A majority of the British people who lived in England and Wales did. That's all there is to it. As it happens, that's sufficient for an overall majority of the British people - that's why we're leaving. If it had been closer in England and Wales, it might not have been sufficient thanks to British people in Scotland. Then we wouldn't have been leaving.

Again, you find it utterly impossible to see things through anything but the Scottish nationalist lens. You think everything you say must be true because you take it for granted that your assumptions are true.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Geez. That many people would vote for the conservatives? Crazy. I'm kinda happy the USA only has a two party system, having a multiple party system seems to be too risky for progress.

 

[GeordieMark]

Scotland isn't an area, it's a nation. That is precisely the kind of arrogance that is frustrating. Oh Scotland look at Manchester it voted remain as well!

England/Wales voted Leave, that's not Scotland's fault. We voted remain, as did NI. Like it or not this lovely Union really boils down to whatever England votes as a majority, and the rest of you are being pulled along regardless.

Which is why the Union is an absolute joke when it comes to certain matters. In terms of how politics goes there is "no" United Kingdom, it's what England says, the UK gets. I mean thank fuck we have a decent amount of stuff devolved up here or it would be continually whatever the Tories/English want at all times.

None of that is true though. The vote of the Scottish people was treated the same as that of anyone else. Scotland are a nation within a Union and that comes with pros and cons. You can't pick and choose when that applies. There are a decent number of Scottish people who did vote leave too, and the turnout in Scotland was about 67%. You're not speaking for the whole of Scotland; you're speaking for yourself and those who voted like you. If all of Scotland had voted unanimously for Remain, they would have won. Scotland also voted to stay in the Union and English voters had nothing to do with that. That is entirely down to the Scottish voters.

 

[Audioboxer]

Scotland might be a nation. That doesn't necessarily mean that it has to have special political representation. If you think it should, well, that makes you a nationalist. Amazingly, I'm not a nationalist, and the fact that Scotland is a nation is as irrelevant to me as the fact my own Gymraeg mamwlad is a nation. As long as the people of Scotland chose to be parts of the state of the United Kingdom, they are entitled to everything that any British citizen is entitled to. No more, no less. And that applies to votes. Every person's vote is worth the same as every other person's vote, regardless of which nation they belong to.

England and Wales didn't vote leave. A majority of the British people who lived in England and Wales did. That's all there is to it. As it happens, that's sufficient for an overall majority of the British people - that's why we're leaving. If it had been closer in England and Wales, it might not have been sufficient thanks to British people in Scotland. Then we wouldn't have been leaving.

Again, you find it utterly impossible to see things through anything but the Scottish nationalist lens. You think everything you say must be true because you take it for granted that your assumptions are true.

Why would I compromise my values just to say "Crab you are right!". I obviously want independence, and I think any bystanders on GAF could see there is a legitimate beef to have when your country votes 62% to remain and the vote essentially means jack shit.

I don't particularly care if you enjoy Wales being Englands bitch, that's your views on it. I'm not telling you you can't have them, I'm making it clear I won't sign up for that anymore. Not after Brexit.

And you are right, as long as Scotland is in the UK we do need to obey and comply. I'm not in the streets setting fires and rioting. I'm going to use my powers of democracy to campaign like a beast to try and get independence if we get another chance. If not I've made it clear I will remove myself from what I see to be a toxic relationship in this Union and I'll live abroad (I've said this a few times on GAF). That way Scotland gets rid of noisy little me, and can carry on following England in peace.

None of that is true though. The vote of the Scottish people was treated the same as that of anyone else. Scotland are a nation within a Union and that comes with pros and cons. You can't pick and choose when that applies. There are a decent number of Scottish people who did vote leave too, and the turnout in Scotland was about 67%. You're not speaking for the whole of Scotland; you're speaking for yourself and those who voted like you. If all of Scotland had voted unanimously for Remain, they would have won. Scotland also voted to stay in the Union and English voters had nothing to do with that. That is entirely down to the Scottish voters.

Correction, no, if Scotland voted 100% remain the numbers would not have been enough to make up the gap (100% of those that chose to vote). Meaning we'd still be leaving.

As for the rest, yes, but as I just said to crab above I'm going to try and change reality by campaigning to leave the union so this can't happen again.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I don't get this graph, surely you shouldn't be able to select multiple?

I think it means, of those people that chose those options, what percentage voted to leave.

So +80% of people who "strongly agreed" voted to leave. ~15% "strongly disagreed" respondents voted to leave.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Why would I compromise my values just to say "Crab you are right!". I obviously want independence, and I think any bystanders on GAF could see there is a legitimate beef to have when your country votes 62% to remain and the vote essentially means jack shit.

I don't particularly care if you enjoy Wales being Englands bitch, that's your views on it. I'm not telling you you can't have them, I'm making it clear I won't sign up for that anymore. Not after Brexit.

And you are right, as long as Scotland is in the UK we do need to obey and comply. I'm not in the streets setting fires and rioting. I'm going to use my powers of democracy to campaign like a beast to try and get independence if we get another chance. If not I've made it clear I will remove myself from what I see to be a toxic relationship in this Union and I'll live abroad. That way Scotland gets rid of noisy little me, and can carry on following England in peace.

Go for it, you're a nationalist. All I'm pointing out is that until Scotland actually is independent, there is nothing unfair about the way that people living in Scotland were treated. They were given entirely the same due process as anyone else. Giving them extra representation would be unfair to everyone else. You can't design to democracy to make sure your side always wins - if you do, it isn't democracy.

 

[SKINNER!]

I don't particularly care if you enjoy Wales being Englands bitch

 

[dapperbandit]

Count me out of that 6%

And it's all well and good the Labour party being the party you can tell your friends and neighbours you vote for and have everyone think you're a nice guy but maybe if they were actually not useless they'd be in a better place, with or without Corbyn.

 

[Eusis]

A few countries have entered the EU on small margin that was under 55%. If big decisions were to require a super majority quite a few countries would not have joined the EU. Why should leaving the EU require higher majority then was required to join the union?

Democracy won't work if it only counts when the right side wins.

Point, that is something I was thinking about. I guess it's just frustrating when the masses wreck things for everyone without knowing they did. :/

 

[CyclopsRock]

Every person in Scotland has exactly the same electoral power as every person in England, in both the referendum(s) and parliamentary elections. England has no hive-mind consciousness any more than Scotland does. Scotland is a place with people in it, just like England and Manchester and my bedroom.

 

[SKINNER!]

If all of Scotland had voted unanimously for Remain, they would have won.

But all Scottish constituencies voted to Remain. Unless you meant turnout...

 

[Audioboxer]

Go for it, you're a nationalist. All I'm pointing out is that until Scotland actually is independent, there is nothing unfair about the way that people living in Scotland were treated. They were given entirely the same due process as anyone else. Giving them extra representation would be unfair to everyone else. You can't design to democracy to make sure your side always wins - if you do, it isn't democracy.

I believe the current system is unfair, so yes I am trying to make it so that I don't have to be part of the current system. Again, my opinions don't mean I'm causing any harm to the current system, I'm simply opposing it.

And don't you worry, you don't need to tell me to go for it! I went for it in 2014 because I had beliefs similar to these, but Brexit has just rubber stamped them tenfold.

It's just my views on any country happy to let itself be overruled by another. I'm Scottish, some curse words slip in to nearly every sentence!

Maybe you have to "wake up" the morning after knowing your country voted remain but because of your Union another country, bigger due to size, simply says sorry, you're leaving. It does make you feel a bit pissed off. Add in to the mix England seems hellbent on voting Tory for the foreseeable future and it's like rubbing salt on a fresh wound.

 

[SKINNER!]

It's just my views on any country happy to let itself be overruled. I'm Scottish, some curse words slip in to nearly every sentence!

I'm on your side here but what he states - on paper/face value anyway - is kinda correct. It's just...you know someone's gonna pull that trainspotting "we're colinised by wankers" line if you start mouthing off like that and then whatcha gonna do?

 

[GeordieMark]

But all Scottish constituencies voted to Remain. Unless you meant turnout...

I did. Should have made that clearer. Sorry!

 

[Deleted member 231381]

It's just my views on any country happy to let itself be overruled. I'm Scottish, some curse words slip in to nearly every sentence!

Wales doesn't let itself be overruled by England, though. There is no "Wales" or "England" making these decisions! There are more differences between the different areas of England than there are between England and Scotland - the average Scot is less different from the average Englishperson than the average Londoner is different from the average Midlandser. These aren't entirely homogeneous entities who make entirely unanimous decisions. "Wales" doesn't want anything - each person who lives in Wales wants something, just as each person who lives in England wants something. It happens that the largest bloc of people who want things lives in England, sure. But there are more people who oppose the Conservatives in England than there are people who oppose the Conservatives in Scotland!

You're such a strong nationalist it blinds you. You seem to think every single person living in a nation necessarily thinks the same way. That's just so wrong. And it leads you to demean and belittle the people of Wales - who, by and large, have had a much rougher deal than the people of Scotland. Os ydych yn meddwl eich bod wedi cael yn anodd, gallwch gadw ei.

 

[Castef]

So, what we've learned is, this referendum would've fucked shit up regardless of the outcome. The problem wasn't which side was gonna be chosen. It was the decision of having to choose a side in the first place. And who's to blame for that? hmmmmmmmmm I wonder.

Well, if it is a 48/49% to 52/51% situation it means that UK would always be a time bomb for EU.

This is not just a bunch of votes moving between Remain and Leave, this is endemic and won't change anytime soon.

Too bad someone triggered all of this, yet maybe it is for good (at least, for EU).

 

[SKINNER!]

Os ydych yn meddwl eich bod wedi cael yn anodd, gallwch gadw ei.

Your keyboard's freaking out man. Perhaps its because it's set to "British English"?

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm on your side here but what he states - on paper/face value anyway - is kinda correct. It's just...you know someone's gonna pull that trainspotting "we're colinised by wankers" line if you start mouthing off like that and then whatcha gonna do?

Scotland is full of cunts at times though, I have no issue attacking the people up here when they make dubious decisions. If we had voted leave I'd be firing cannon balls locally right now. Just look at the state of the UK as it is, and look at May handling negotiations. It instills genuine anger. I wish no harm to anyone, but via words I'm going to vent.

Heck I even know right now I'm being a bit of a cunt, but I'm fighting for what I see to be my future, and no I'm clearly not happy about Brexit probably more so than anyone depressingly having to accept if they live in England or Wales their nation voted leave.

I did. Should have made that clearer. Sorry!

You're still wrong though, let me break it down.

UK

Leave
15,188,406 VOTES

Remain
13,266,996 VOTES

Difference - 1,921,410

Scotland

Leave
1,018,322 VOTES

Therefore even if you add every single leave voter in Scotland to remain, 1.01m, it's not enough to have remain win the vote. We need 1.92m+

So Scotland could have hypothetically had 100% of voters voting remain and still be leaving the EU.

Wales doesn't let itself be overruled by England, though. There is no "Wales" or "England" making these decisions! There are more differences between the different areas of England than there are between England and Scotland - the average Scot is less different from the average Englishperson than the average Londoner is different from the average Midlandser. These aren't entirely homogeneous entities who make entirely unanimous decisions. "Wales" doesn't want anything - each person who lives in Wales wants something, just as each person who lives in England wants something. It happens that the largest bloc of people who want things lives in England, sure. But there are more people who oppose the Conservatives in England than there are people who oppose the Conservatives in Scotland!

You're such a strong nationalist it blinds you. You seem to think every single person living in a nation necessarily thinks the same way. That's just so wrong. And it leads you to demean and belittle the people of Wales - who, by and large, have had a much rougher deal than the people of Scotland. Os ydych yn meddwl eich bod wedi cael yn anodd, gallwch gadw ei.

Yes I know, the Welsh who came up with the NHS are getting pretty shafted by the government right now with the obsession with gutting the NHS. The Welsh also receive, or received, decent aid from the EU, so that is something you DO have to look at your people and say what on earth are you guys playing at?

Also just so you know I do not take being called a nationalist as an insult. I'm not Farage so the onus is on you if your definition of nationalist is always a negative one. The only future I actually have a chance of influencing is my home nation. I've pointed out above why voting within the Union can feel utterly pointless living in Scotland. So yeah I am being nationalistic and trying to care about changing what I can, not what I have fleeting influence over. I help keep the Tories out of Scotland, next I'm going to try and keep us in the EU. I've said multiple times if things fail to go the way I think is best then I will remove myself from the picture and allow the people who chose differently to carry on their way. At no point am I ever going to protest to stand in the way of democracy in an unfair way, I'm simply going to try and protest for changes I think will be positive, and lick my wounds and retreat if I lose. I know the whole nation doesn't think like me.

I mean if you think I'm bad there was tons of loonies running around with the "45%" badges in 2014. I did not do that, nor would I ever celebrate a defeat lol. Silly people. With something like independence you have to win people over by educated debate, not force and silly stickers/badges.

 

[Empty]

i don't think brexiters will start to regret their vote, but they will probably start blaming the tories for screwing up their stupid fantasy when it the economy starts to really splutter.

sadly when that happens there's no-one plausible saying 'this wouldn't have happened with us' for them to run to.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Your keyboard's freaking out man. Perhaps its because it's set to "British English"?

When Wales becomes independent and the Great Welsh Empire dominates the lands, retribution will be sharp and ruthless.

 

[SKINNER!]

When Wales becomes independent and the Great Welsh Empire dominates the lands, retribution will be sharp and ruthless.

I anxiously look forward to that haha

 

[Jezbollah]

People were saying the next day that they voted leave and regretted it, saying the classic "oh I voted leave, but didn't think they would go through with it".

I think a lot of the 6% are these people. A lot will be those who the weakened pound has affected.. The reality is though is that we have yet to see the proper damage the Leave vote will have - and with that the argument Brexiters point to herp-derply (namely the FTSE) is irrelevant.

 

[anonymous_abc]

From the POV of a leave voter.. why would you trust the economic and political "experts" who have failed at pretty much everything they've tried to do for the past decade at least? Iraq, Syria, Libya, the 2008 crash, failing to reduce immigration, failing to cut the deficit. Then there is stuff like the expenses scandal and the phone hacking scandal which makes the political elites seem not only incompetent but corrupt and self serving.

The origin of populism is the failure of political elites to justify their own existence.

Nice to ignore all the good or not terrible things. Because we are all living in a mad max'esque wasteland.

Geez. That many people would vote for the conservatives? Crazy. I'm kinda happy the USA only has a two party system, having a multiple party system seems to be too risky for progress.

This is only a problem if you have a shitty electoral system like the US or UK not in a proportional parliament system.

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm on your side here but what he states - on paper/face value anyway - is kinda correct. It's just...you know someone's gonna pull that trainspotting "we're colinised by wankers" line if you start mouthing off like that and then whatcha gonna do?

Auch, to lighten the mood, here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29-LRuuqFT0

 

[FStop7]

Rather put your trust in ordinary people instead of experts?

What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck?

The dumbs are taking over.

The problem is that a certain type of person thinks because they have the Internet that they are just as informed as any experts. The same type of person who thinks translating a game is a 2 day job, for example.

And the bad news is that there are a lot of them.

 

[Audioboxer]

The problem is that a certain type of person thinks because they have the Internet that they are just as informed as any experts. The same type of person who thinks translating a game is a 2 day job, for example.

And the bad news is that there are a lot of them.

In the UK it's more about Daily Mail readers. A good bunch of them will have torpedoed the EU vote.

They don't even go online, unless it's to read articles on the DM site.

The kind of people that expected the brown skinned people to be rounded up and airlifted out to sea the day after Brexit.

It's no wonder GAF banned the DM website.

 

[Voysa Reezun]

It makes no sense to me that David Cameron drove the country into the ground, but the Tories still have majority support of the country. To me, these numbers are analogous to the U.S. giving John McCain 300+ electoral votes in 2008 right after GWB's reign of terror. What the sweet fuck?

 

[GeordieMark]

Scotland is full of cunts at times though, I have no issue attacking the people up here when they make dubious decisions. If we had voted leave I'd be firing cannon balls locally right now. Just look at the state of the UK as it is, and look at May handling negotiations. It instills genuine anger. I wish no harm to anyone, but via words I'm going to vent.

Heck I even know right now I'm being a bit of a cunt, but I'm fighting for what I see to be my future, and no I'm clearly not happy about Brexit probably more so than anyone depressingly having to accept if they live in England or Wales their nation voted leave.



You're still wrong though, let me break it down.



Therefore even if you add every single leave voter in Scotland to remain, 1.01m, it's not enough to have remain win the vote. We need 1.92m+

So Scotland could have hypothetically had 100% of voters voting remain and still be leaving the EU.



Yes I know, the Welsh who came up with the NHS are getting pretty shafted by the government right now with the obsession with gutting the NHS. The Welsh also receive, or received, decent aid from the EU, so that is something you DO have to look at your people and say what on earth are you guys playing at?

Also just so you know I do not take being called a nationalist as an insult. I'm not Farage so the onus is on you if your definition of nationalist is always a negative one. The only future I actually have a chance of influencing is my home nation. I've pointed out above why voting within the Union can feel utterly pointless living in Scotland. So yeah I am being nationalistic and trying to care about changing what I can, not what I have fleeting influence over. I help keep the Tories out of Scotland, next I'm going to try and keep us in the EU. I've said multiple times if things fail to go the way I think is best then I will remove myself from the picture and allow the people who chose differently to carry on their way. At no point am I ever going to protest to stand in the way of democracy in an unfair way, I'm simply going to try and protest for changes I think will be positive, and lick my wounds and retreat if I lose. I know the whole nation doesn't think like me.

I mean if you think I'm bad there was tons of loonies running around with the "45%" badges in 2014. I did not do that, nor would I ever celebrate a defeat lol. Silly people. With something like independence you have to win people over by educated debate, not force and silly stickers/badges.

You're not taking into account the people that didn't vote at all

 

[Audioboxer]

You're not taking into account the people that didn't vote at all

They're not really part of the equation though as they... didn't vote? We have to deal with who did turnout.

I mean I won't deny, our turnout was disappointing, but even if we squeeze it up to around 75% that's still not going to bridge a 900k gap

Turnout in Scotland was 67% while in Wales it was 72% and in England 73%

The hypothetical we are dealing with is a bit silly anyway, as you'll never get 100% of votes being the same. The principal for me to point out is how "worthless" the Scottish vote felt as even the silly hypothetical we're discussing couldn't save us/the UK. Scotland, NI and Wales were for the most part literally counting on England to have a good remain turnout.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The fact they even let this be a vote of the people is insane. Companies are pulling out, your currency is tanking, your products are getting nore expensive to buy and you'll never even be able to force out all the immigrants. What was the point? These leavers screwed their country.

I wouldn't be surprised if Scotland and NI try to leave the UK so they can independently join the EU. No need to go down with the ship. Then again leaving would further tank their economy.

Whole thing is a mess.

 

[Bumhead]

It makes no sense to me that David Cameron drove the country into the ground, but the Tories still have majority support of the country. To me, these numbers are analogous to the U.S. giving John McCain 300+ electoral votes in 2008 right after GWB's reign of terror. What the sweet fuck?

This is testament to what a clusterfuck the main opposition, The Labour Party, is.

The country is quite possibly staring into the abyss and people would still rather vote for the current leaders. I think that makes Jeremy Corbyn chronically useless from a politics point of view.

 

[SomethingInTheSea]

What the fuck at the response to put matters in the hands of ordinary people and not experts.

Do these people call the plumber or the local burger flipper at McDonald's when they have a boiler issue at home?

Do they want a pilot flying a plane they're on, or the guy from the pub who 'always wanted a go'?

When they end up in an accident, would they rather see someone with a day first aid certificate or a professional doctor with a medical degree?

Because I bet the answers they'd give to those questions wouldn't match the one they gave here. Bloody morons.

Yeah but when you remember that the banking, business and political classes are now totally discredited in this country it makes total sense. Why listen to a corrupt politician, greedy banker or business person who doesn't pay their taxes instead of ordinary people?

 

[Blader]

From the POV of a leave voter.. why would you trust the economic and political "experts" who have failed at pretty much everything they've tried to do for the past decade at least? Iraq, Syria, Libya, the 2008 crash, failing to reduce immigration, failing to cut the deficit. Then there is stuff like the expenses scandal and the phone hacking scandal which makes the political elites seem not only incompetent but corrupt and self serving.

The origin of populism is the failure of political elites to justify their own existence.

Who's paying for the British wall?

 

[Audioboxer]

Who's paying for the British wall?

The only wall that will be needed by the end of this will be around my house to protect myself from all the GAFers I piss off with my pro-independence rants lol.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The only wall that will be needed by the end of this will be around my house to protect myself from all the GAFers I piss off with my pro-independence rants lol.

Those gaffers are gonna pay for it though right?

 

[hamboner]

Wisdom of ordinary people vs opinions of experts? That is some garbage-tier loaded polling.

 

[Pancake Mix]

The only wall that will be needed by the end of this will be around my house to protect myself from all the GAFers I piss off with my pro-independence rants lol.

Scotland leaving would be really sad.

 

[MetalSlug]

I would vote for the SNP again.

 

[PKrockin]

I always think of the Dunning-Kruger Effect whenever I hear people claiming we should ignore economists or experts in general. It's the pattern that the less skilled people are at a task, the more likely they are to overestimate their own skill, underestimate the skill of others and only realize how bad they were after they're trained. I feel like this applies here. The less knowledgeable someone is about a subject, the more confident they are in their own opinion over that of an expert. I know I've gone through this myself.

Had you asked me what to do about the economy 8 years ago when I was a Ron Paul supporter, I would have told you with absolute certainty and with very few words the handful of things that could be done that would fix everything. Nowadays I am pretty certain about a few things we could do to improve the economy, sure, but if you asked me to rate from 1 to 10 my confidence that I have the answers to all the economic problems facing the world, I would score myself much lower than 8 years ago.

I could swear there was some kind of survey about how Trump supporters tend to view the world as one with generally simple, obvious solutions, rather than one with complex, imperfect solutions. I wish I could find it and confirm my memory of it and re-read it. Those two answers describe my changed view of society and politics pretty well.

 

[Joni]

Tory screw up and it turns into a bigger support base.

 

[Audioboxer]

Those gaffers are gonna pay for it though right?

I'll pay for it for all the mess I'm making. I'll even offer out some cups of tea whilst my house is being pelted with eggs.

Scotland leaving would be really sad.

As much as I'd be celebrating an independence win, I won't lie, it would be a monumental change from all I've known since I was born. The UK. I can't kick people when they're down for being sentimental, even if I don't hold as much feelings towards the Union. Maybe if things hadn't gone the way they have I wouldn't be as jaded.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

So what do we call these 6%; Regrexiteers? I know what Queen Theresa's tools; the Daily Mail and Daily Express would call them

Spoiler

traitors

.

As for the Tory share getting bigger. I'm starting to see what The Simpsons meant with this:

 

[locke_21183]

That question is hugely leading though:

The *wisdom* of friends versus the *opinion* of experts?

 

[oti]

Just to stress, given these figures, if the referendum were held again today and turn-out was the same, the result would be:

Remain: 50.7%
Leave: 49.3%

and we've not even triggered Article 50 yet.

 

[Souldriver]

The numbers on the "expert" question are just the saddest thing.

 

[anonymous_abc]

ScotlandThe UK leaving would be really sad.

ftfy

That question is hugely leading though:

The *wisdom* of friends versus the *opinion* of experts?

true, but the implication is still obvious.