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[leadbelly]

Anyway, to comment on that letter, as I wasn't able to earlier: I don't really know what to think about it. We're talking about something concerning his time in education that happened years ago, in the 70s and early 80s. For one, it isn't exactly clear exactly what he said. And the comments from people who knew him back then are mixed.

For instance this is also stated in the article:

Terry Walsh, who was then deputy master at Dulwich (ie. deputy head), says Farage was well known for provoking people, especially left-wing English teachers who had no sense of humour.

The former master of Dulwich David Emms, the man who appointed Farage and received Chloe Deakin's letter, says he has no memory of the meeting or the letter. But he agrees with his former deputy: "It was naughtiness, not racism," Emms told me on Wednesday. "I didn't probe too closely into that naughtiness, but the staff were fed up with his cheekiness and rudeness. They wanted me to expel him, but I saw his potential, made him a prefect, and I was proved right."

Certainly the way it which he conducts himself now, you wouldn't think he was either racist or facist.

 

[leadbelly]

Yeah, about that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzSesQ5epwQ

lol

I just noticed this. I wasn't aware the BNP allowed people who are not "indigenous British" into the party. From further research I found out this:

In 2010, following legal action by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, the party changed its constitution which had restricted membership to "indigenous British" people.

Obviously I don't know if there are ulterior motives behind UKIP's policies, but in terms of race, they at least handle things quite a lot differently than how the BNP does.

 

[KugelBlitz]

Oh sweet, politics! /s

If this post is defensible, I'd love to see how.

While I'm not a UKIP supporter, Mr. Farage has constantly made noise concerning how key members of the EU parliament are not elected in a valid manner. I believe he states they are voted in through "secret elections", and are not voted in by the vast majority.

Whether this is true or not, I don't know, I haven't looked into it, to be honest.

I believe some of what I spoke about is in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGNoZfvRoA

He's racist and fascist now. Is this supposed to be surprising?

Except this was years ago, when he was a young, foolish man.
I haven't done any recent research into the matter, but I never came across any information which pointed him out as a racist or a fascist, but yes I do concede it is very possible he could still believe in such ludicrous ideologies.

But it would be nice if anyone could prove that.

Though I'm rather incredulous to him being identified as a fascist, especially when he has been requesting the EU parliament engage in legitimate forms of voting, legitimate forms of democracy, if you will. In addition I also believe when he was asked about how little progress his party made, he replied with a message basically stating "That's democracy, and I respect that".

(Though I'll have to find that)

Hitler was an awesome public speaker as well. Of course he was a twat and so is Nigel.

However, Nigel typically - not always - typically makes valid points.

For example, I agree with him on the policy of the EU, I think Britain should depart from the EU, not because I look upon the EU as a scapegoat, but because I don't believe the current model beneficial.

It's an incredibly expensive subscription, costing the UK 53 millions pounds a day, if you are to believe Mr. Farage.

Of course I don't agree with him on everything, and I certainly don't agree with his party.

For example, he wishes to save that EU subscription money and inject most of it into....the military, while making cuts to the public sector?!

He basically wants a larger military, yet he's also stated that he would pull our troops out of Iraq/Afghanistan (If I recall correctly) - so basically he wants a larger military doing nothing?

In addition his views on global warming are questionable, and don't get me started on the party's view of same sex marriage (they don't allow it).

 

[Sickboy007]

Whats's really sad is that criticism of the Union as is is left to these cleaned up buffoons (see also all the other euroskeptic parties in Europe).

 

[Empty]

First jokes that all the women in a conference designed to promote the advancement of women in politics are "sluts", then loses it at a C4 reporter and hits him over the head with a brochure. This brochure:

that brouchure cover can't be real omg

 

[leadbelly]

Of course I don't agree with him on everything, and I certainly don't agree with his party.

For example, he wishes to save that EU subscription money and inject most of it into....the military, while making cuts to the public sector?!

He basically wants a larger military, yet he's also stated that he would pull our troops out of Iraq/Afghanistan (If I recall correctly) - so basically he wants a larger military doing nothing?

In addition his views on global warming are questionable, and don't get me started on the party's view of same sex marriage (they don't allow it).

Yeah. They're not fit to run the country, that's for sure. I'm the same as you really, I agree on some of his points, and think he is a pretty good public speaker.

 

[avaya]

This is pretty sad. Guess being a Libertarian makes me racist (despite being an ethnic born in the uk). (Not a jab directly at you but many people who I speak to will just say 'why you siding with the racists)

These people in Ukip are outspoken about their political views. If you actually broke down what they say and analyze rationally, instead of thinking about everything with an emotional stance, you'll see how much sense it all makes.

These guys were the first lot to truly warn about the dangers of creating a singular and very powerful superstate like the EU, and when you look at the evidence, you can see how country after country is falling apart. They want each country to be self governed and make its own laws, yet they're called fascists. How does this make any sense?

No being a libertarian generally marks you out as batshit insane.

 

[Dude Abides]

Reading on these guys' policy stances on Wiki, they don't seem particularly libertarian - opposed to immigration, opposed to same sex marriage.

They seem like your version of Republicans.

 

[Bleepey]

I got into my fair share of trouble at my school; a no nonsense grammar school and I've never had a letter worded quite as strongly or acridly as that one against my person.

I knew some pretty humerous and cold teachers. Their insults could be quite scathing, I still remember once when a usually soft-spoken teacher gave the hair dryer treatment to one boy who was weeping and that only made him continue shouting at him harder.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Well, in the US, the Democratic Party didn't seem to mind that the house whip used to be a grand cyclops (or some such shit) in the KKK. They just loved saying that he was a changed man and all that garbage.

 

[TCRS]

Yeah. They're not fit to run the country, that's for sure. I'm the same as you really, I agree on some of his points, and think he is a pretty good public speaker.

Nah, UKIP is not a party fit to run the country, but I don't think anyone seriously believes they will. They are more of a conservative pressure group and a very welcome one I might add. These constant attempts of character assassination by the left are pathetic. You don't have to agree with all of his policies to see that most of what he says about the EU is true.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Reading on these guys' policy stances on Wiki, they don't seem particularly libertarian - opposed to immigration, opposed to same sex marriage.

They seem like your version of Republicans.

You can be libertarian and oppose immigration (if your country spends taxpayer's money in welfare, better to shut down borders while you work on ending welfare) and same-sex marriage (which can only exist as a socialist legal fiction, enforced by the government. It would not exist in purely libertarian societies).

 

[Walshicus]

Nah, UKIP is not a party fit to run the country, but I don't think anyone seriously believes they will. They are more of a conservative pressure group and a very welcome one I might add. These constant attempts of character assassination by the left are pathetic. You don't have to agree with all of his policies to see that most of what he says about the EU is true.

Except, generally it isn't true. It's scaremongering and falsehoods which hide the true benefit the union has brought us - as citizens, consumers and workers. UKIP isn't designed to restore power for *our* benefit. It's designed to claw back the ability of government to facilitate the fucking-over of the majority to the benefit of a small élite while also pandering to that group's inherent racism and xenophobia.

 

[leadbelly]

No being a libertarian generally marks you out as batshit insane.

I think certain libertarian ideals are quite attractive really. I've come to realise that I'm an anarchist at heart, even though I know it wouldn't work.

 

[Dude Abides]

You can be libertarian and oppose immigration (if your country spends taxpayer's money in welfare, better to shut down borders while you work on ending welfare) and same-sex marriage (which can only exist as a socialist legal fiction, enforced by the government. It would not exist in purely libertarian societies).

Nope. Libertarian principles militate against arbitrary restrictions on freedom of movement and marriage. These guys are just bog-standard social conservatives, like you.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs."

I don't know much about the UK, is that sort of thing frowned upon?

 

[Locke_211]

I don't think Farage is a Fascist at all. In that Fascism means something and there are various theorists who have come up with various models of it, which I don't think Farage fits. He's all about clownish individualism, for one.

EDIT: I also believe you can be young and drunkenly sing Hitler youth songs without actually identifying with any of the content of the lyrics of the ideology behind them, because its annoying to people in power and a lark. Not a good idea, but I don't think it necessarily says anything about him in the way that people are clinging to.

 

[leadbelly]

Except, generally it isn't true. It's scaremongering and falsehoods which hide the true benefit the union has brought us - as citizens, consumers and workers. UKIP isn't designed to restore power for *our* benefit. It's designed to claw back the ability of government to facilitate the fucking-over of the majority to the benefit of a small élite while also pandering to that group's inherent racism and xenophobia.

I think the general gist of Farage's view on the EU is that he fears it will become a United States of Europe run by unelected bureaucrats. As the Eurozone has fallen apart they have certainly tried to gain more power. The view is that in order to tackle the crisis in Europe we need a stronger EU not a weaker one. That I feel should be left for the people to decide. Why a referendum is needed.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

I don't know much about the UK, is that sort of thing frowned upon?

I would say so, yes.

 

[Raiden]

Judging from my Xbox live experiences every single person ages 12-18 are racist.

 

[Walshicus]

I think the general gist of Farage's view on the EU is that he fears it will become a United States of Europe run by unelected bureaucrats. As the Eurozone has fallen apart they have certainly tried to gain more power. The view is that in order to tackle the crisis in Europe we need a stronger EU not a weaker one. That I feel should be left for the people to decide. Why a referendum is needed.

I don't think that's his concern at all, or if it is, it's a minor part of his overall distrust in pro-consumer, pro-worker and pro-citizens rights laws. I think if he really cared about democracy he would actually do the job he's fucking paid to do rather than take the money and contribute nothing to Parliament.

The whole "lack of democracy" thing is annoying when coming from Eurosceptics. It's us supranationalists who are calling for the parliament to have a bigger share of power in the EU, for elected commissioners rather than just *selected* and then approved by parliament commissioners; sceptics fight tooth and nail to keep that power with the Council (e.g. the states) and then bitch and moan about a lack of democracy. Hypocrites...

 

[Arksy]

I don't think that's his concern at all, or if it is, it's a minor part of his overall distrust in pro-consumer, pro-worker and pro-citizens rights laws. I think if he really cared about democracy he would actually do the job he's fucking paid to do rather than take the money and contribute nothing to Parliament.

The whole "lack of democracy" thing is annoying when coming from Eurosceptics. It's us supranationalists who are calling for the parliament to have a bigger share of power in the EU, for elected commissioners rather than just *selected* and then approved by parliament commissioners; sceptics fight tooth and nail to keep that power with the Council (e.g. the states) and then bitch and moan about a lack of democracy. Hypocrites...

Hardly. Even if you got your wish and made the EU more democratic by simply electing commissioners there would still be an accountability problem because the EU commissioners are so far removed from the general public. There is a good reason classical liberals want power to flow back to the states, because they're the most appropriate organ on an international stage to take care of their citizenry. The smaller the management unit, the better they are equipped to be able to deal with issues facing the local population. People would bitch and moan a lot less if all you were trying to was make the EC more accountable, but that's not the case. Any attempt to democratise the EU is also met with an attempt to increase its power, as you state.

 

[leadbelly]

The whole "lack of democracy" thing is annoying when coming from Eurosceptics. It's us supranationalists who are calling for the parliament to have a bigger share of power in the EU, for elected commissioners rather than just *selected* and then approved by parliament commissioners; sceptics fight tooth and nail to keep that power with the Council (e.g. the states) and then bitch and moan about a lack of democracy. Hypocrites...

Obviously Farage would prefer the EU to not exist at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxdEct3SKgw

 

[w00twood]

You can be libertarian and oppose immigration (if your country spends taxpayer's money in welfare, better to shut down borders while you work on ending welfare) and same-sex marriage (which can only exist as a socialist legal fiction, enforced by the government. It would not exist in purely libertarian societies).

Was your point about same-sex marriage a joke? In a sense you are right about that, Penn Jillette's take is that he doesn't believe in any kind of marriage- given laws regarding marriage are created by the government, and what he wants is enough freedom of contract so that every couple (or group) who wants to get married can come up with their own legal terms for it.

If you are a libertarian you can't really be against same-sex marriage.