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UMD video encoded at 720x480 ?!? (PSP news)

neptunes

Member
I have a feeling that UMD's wont only be used with the PSP.

Actually I remember them saying that it would be used for other devices when they just announced it.
 

Tiberius

Member
neptunes said:
I have a feeling that UMD's wont only be used with the PSP.

Actually I remember them saying that it would be used for othe devices when they just announced it.


maybe camcorders
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I heard of another device, but it was a mobile device too.

480p 16:9 is a bit too much for as lot of portables, it is good enough for home HDTVs.
 

neptunes

Member
Tiberius said:
maybe camcorders

good Idea, but that would mean the camcorder itself would require some sort of UMD Writing/Re-Writing funcionality.

EDIT: panajev posted before me :D.
 

Rhindle

Member
Panajev2001a said:
Isn't that 480p with 16:9 ratio ?

Will we see UMD based home decks ?
I think the answer is pretty clearly yes. What other reason would there be to support H.264 at that resolution on a machine that can only display 480*272?

Although, Sony may instead use the format for portable video players with larger screens similar to those Microsoft is releasing.
 
Panajev2001a said:
Isn't that 480p with 16:9 ratio?
Can PSP output to say new Sony WEGA TV if they had USB 2.0 ports?

720x480 is actually the full spec 480i and 480p resolution. The article appears to be expressing some sort of interest for SD (480i/p) content with TVs, and mentioning that the PSP hardware could possibly handle 720x480 decoding using a codec that would make DVD-sized stuff possible.

Theoretically USB output is possible, sure 2.0 definitely has the bandwidth for it. Of course, the TV would need to be able to recognize video streams through USB, which is less likely, especially if some sort of output protection scheme is involved.

Bigger problems with the idea are how much of a performance/battery hit would come from realtime downconverting of 480p footage (and some part of the article seems to be expressing doubts about the CPU being able to handle such a conversion?)
 

neptunes

Member
For example, when we assume, that the lithium ion battery which is loaded onto PSP is 6.5Wh 8 hour drives are actualized, average electric power consumption of the whole system must be held down to 800mW. Assuming, that the battery was designated as 10Wh, as for electric power consumption of 8 hour drives 1.25W. When of weight is thought, perhaps this is the limit. In case of PSP, because electric power is eaten even with liquid crystal display and optical disk "UMD" drive, as for electric power consumption of the tip/chip it is necessary to hold down to very limit.

Though, the economical electrical technology itself which has been adopted with PSP that much is not special ones. First, with the PSP tip/chip, by the fact that clock supply is controlled in clock gating, electric power is held down. Logic on the tip/chip, several parts (the island) you divide, stopping the clock to the island which has not been utilized, wasteful electricity consumption that try it does not occur.

In addition, with PSP, the electric power supply which is separated into 3 large units of 3D graphic unit, H.264 decoder unit and AVE unit, respectively is done. In every unit, by the fact that electric power supply is shut down completely, wastefulness is excluded.

Those where it is fortunate for PSP multi uses from the quality, multimedia device, are that cannot be a case where private unit is used entirely simultaneously almost. For example, it does not do H.264 video playback on the midst when you have played the 3D game. Conversely, while seeing video, it is possible to make the game engine stop.

In addition, also scalability of voltage of the PSP tip/chip made clear. As for the PSP tip/chip the CPU core is operational 333MHz and other blocks with 166MHz. These frequencies with peak, can drop to 0.5 - 1MHz scalable. In that case, you say that also core voltage can lower to lowest 0.8V.

let me read over rthis again.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Are Sonys internal policemen going to allow films to be put onto UMD for less than the cost of a DVD (especially if you can then output to tv)?
 

neptunes

Member
DCharlie said:
Are Sonys internal policemen going to allow films to be put onto UMD for less than the cost of a DVD (especially if you can then output to tv)?

money in their pocket either way.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
"money in their pocket either way."

you'd think it was an easy win huh?

i predict that they may not allow TV playback of movies/games and that UMD movies will cost a bit less than DVDs.

If TV playback is available, i expect them to be DVD price.
 

Agent X

Member
Miburou said:
Movies on the PSP has to be one of the most pointless features ever.

Majesco doesn't seem to have any problem selling Game Boy Advance Video products. PSP will be able to offer the same thing, just at a higher quality and lower cost to the manufacturer (and hopefully lower price for the consumer, too). I don't see what's so pointless about that.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Agent X said:
Majesco doesn't seem to have any problem selling Game Boy Advance Video products. PSP will be able to offer the same thing, just at a higher quality and lower cost to the manufacturer (and hopefully lower price for the consumer, too). I don't see what's so pointless about that.


They sell like shit around here.
 

Miburou

Member
Agent X said:
Majesco doesn't seem to have any problem selling Game Boy Advance Video products. PSP will be able to offer the same thing, just at a higher quality and lower cost to the manufacturer (and hopefully lower price for the consumer, too). I don't see what's so pointless about that.

Well, I didn't say no one would buy them (although I doubt it'll be a success by any stretch of the imagination), but I personally see it as being pointless. For one, the PSP's screen is too small, and the resolution too low (I can't imagine how hard subtitles would be to read). Then you've got the fact that it's a proprietary format, so the PSP is the only place you'd watch them on (unless they release a UMD deck, but then that's extra money down the drain). And finally, what's so good about UMD movies? Does it offer the same storage as a DVD? What about digital sound? Really seems like a half-assed effort by Sony to introduce a new format.

Now, if the PSP used DVDs, then that would be a great bonus, even with the small screen. But I personally can't see how someone would buy a movie on UMD, when they could buy it on DVD, unless Sony prices them at a lowe price, which I doubt, seeing as how GBA movies cost about the same as DVD movies.
 

Agent X

Member
I'm not talking about putting Titanic or The Matrix on UMD. I'm talking about putting shows like SpongeBob SquarePants and The Fairly OddParents on UMD, like they're doing for GBA Video now. They could easily do something similiar for PSP, and it would benefit nicely from the PSP's more advanced hardware.
 

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
Panajev2001a:

> ???

Tech demo.

> Will we see UMD based home decks ?

No.

> 480p 16:9 is a bit too much for as lot of portables, it is good enough for home HDTVs.

EDTV. Besides, it's barely better than DVD (lower res than PAL actually). Noone would buy it over DVD or the HD formats which offer a real improvement.



Tiberius:

> maybe camcorders

It would have to be recordable for that - which it won't be.



Rhindle:

> I think the answer is pretty clearly yes. What other reason would there be to support
> H.264 at that resolution on a machine that can only display 480*272?

UMD has limited capacity. A movie encoded in MPEG2 would look like crap.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
I don't see the point of having UMD-based home decks, unless you want to consolidate your film library onto UMD only for home and portable use. With Blu-Ray etc. even higher definition will be possible at home..people will want that at home, not UMD.

Which makes you wonder why UMD is 480p capable.
 

deadhorse32

Bad Art ™
Tiberius said:
maybe camcorders

MiniDvd camcorder are already sucky enough, another crappy media is not needed.

edit : And 720x480 res. is the standard NTSC DVD resolution. They just want to simplify the encoding process to attract as many movie content providers as possible.

Just reencode with the H.264 codec and voilà. NO resize. NO change in aspect ration.
 
I think if Sony release Music albums/singles on UMD they might actually sell... Movies???
I wouldn't buy a UMD movie.
Regardless, success of the PSP is inevitable.


:D
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
I think movies on the PSP could turn into a decent feature, if the price is really low. Maybe with budget releases of TV series or movies, in order to keep prices down? Without any kind of special features and similar? UMD movies probably won't be something I'll be collecting anyway.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
One of the Sony's engineers has hinted to this several months ago. Thet were trying to figure out what resolution would be the best to encode UMD movies, because (and those were his words) PSP will not be the only device to play UMDs, they will be able to be played on other devices, on different, bigger, etc. screens.

> Will we see UMD based home decks ?

No.
Unless you know something the guy I mentioned above does not, you are wrong.
 

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
Marconelly:

> Unless you know something the guy I mentioned above does not, you are wrong.

No. Even Sony can't be that stupid. They may be considering releasing other portable UMD players and maybe laptops with built-in UMD drives. But a an UMD player would serve no purpose in the home and noone except the most rabid Sony fans would ever consider buying one.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
But a an UMD player would serve no purpose in the home and noone except the most rabid Sony fans would ever consider buying one.
TVs with built in UMD drives are as much a feasable option as TVs with memory stick slots are. It all depends if UMD video gets enough of an acceptance, and the actual content available on it. As someone mentioned in the post above, UMD video discs may come out with stuff other than whatever content comes out on DVD. For example, UMD actually lends itself better to music+video releases than DVD does (in a sense that it lets you listen to the music and watch the corresponding videos anywhere).
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
16:9 480P Plasmas displays and LCD TVs have native resolution of 853x480.

yes, but the movies are still encoded to a standard 4:3 frame, which is then scaled up horizontally for a 16:9 display.

Don't know why that is relevant for a native widescreen device, its more to cover legacy tubes and stuff.

I'd love a DVD player that output a proper 1280x720 image for my LCD TV, digitally, rather than rely on dodgy scaling in my panel.
 

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
Marconelly:

> TVs with built in UMD drives are as much a feasable option as TVs with memory stick
> slots are.

Hardly. Although Memory Stick support in TVs is a somewhat gimmicky feature (and mainly put there to give Memory Stick an edge in the market) it does provide connectivity between various Sony products. And being a writable format it does provide some flexibility. UMD offers no such advantages. It's a ROM format and UMD compatible products compete with each other since you're stuck with the same prerecorded content. That is in theory. Because in reality prerecorded content on UMD will never take off.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
UMD is basically a mini-DVD, the tech for which is heavily commoditized at this point. When you can readily find $40-50 DVD players on the market and there are many cases of the hardware costing less than the content packages offered for play on it, producing hardware like this is so low risk, its hardly worth thinking about where you put it. In fact, the biggest risk here is probably to NOT offer the reader/player hardware in as many products as make sense.

I can see two paths for Sony to take UMD in that make sense. Either they produce pre-recorded content on UMD that's specifically formatted for the PSP (480x272 video resolution, stereo sound) and sell that at a significantly lower price than the cost of the same DVD-based content (like, say, the price of a movie rental), or they attempt to achieve as close to DVD standard parity with their UMD releases as possible while still lowering the price to account for the things they can't achieve parity on (i.e. H.264 codec probably would still allow full-length movie on UMD at 480p with surround sound, but extras might need to be culled).

I tend to think the second scenario is a little more likely than the first because, as Milhouse pointed out, it's just an easier proposition for content providers and it allows Sony to eventually sell the format successfully for a larger number of display types.

There's also the new and rapidly expanding segment of portable media players appearing on the CE market from both traditional and non-traditional Sony competitors and the PSP will be pitted against these to some extent. I wouldn't expect the PSP to be Sony's last entry in this new market and capitalizing on existing content in the UMD format with a PMP device that *does* have AV outs for display of content on full-sized displays wouldn't surprise me down the road.
 
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