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UN accuses Myanmar gov of ethnic cleansing. Gov blames spontaneous combustion.

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Jackpot

Banned
So if you remember a few weeks back, the Myanmar (Burma to the UK) government admitted to using helicopter gunships on Rohingya Muslim minority villages.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1313736

Now they've moved on to bigger things:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38091816

Myanmar is seeking the ethnic cleansing of the Muslim Rohingya minority from its territory, a senior UN official has told the BBC.

Armed forces have been killing Rohingya in Rakhine state, forcing many to flee to neighbouring Bangladesh, says John McKissick of the UN refugee agency.

The government of Myanmar, also known as Burma, has been conducting counter-insurgency operations since coordinated attacks on border guards in October.

It denies reports of atrocities.

A spokesman said the government was "very, very disappointed" in the comments.

Burmese officials say Rohingyas are setting fire to their own houses in northern Rakhine state. The BBC cannot visit the area to verify what is occurring there as journalists and aid workers have been barred.

Although Bangladesh's official policy is not to allow in illegal entrants across the border, the foreign ministry has confirmed that thousands of Rohingyas have already sought refuge in the country. Thousands more are reportedly gathering on the border.

He said the Myanmar military and Border Guard Police had "engaged in collective punishment of the Rohingya minority" after the murders of nine border guards on 9 October which some politicians blamed on a Rohingya militant group.

Security forces have been "killing men, shooting them, slaughtering children, raping women, burning and looting houses, forcing these people to cross the river" into Bangladesh, Mr McKissick said.

"Now it's very difficult for the Bangladeshi government to say the border is open because this would further encourage the government of Myanmar to continue the atrocities and push them out until they have achieved their ultimate goal of ethnic cleansing of the Muslim minority in Myanmar," he said.

Earlier this week, Human Rights Watch released satellite images which it said showed that more than 1,200 homes had been razed in Rohingya villages over the past six weeks.

Persecuted ethnic minority burned down their own homes, killed their own children, displaced themselves in the thousands to flee across the border at great risk, all for..... reasons.

And yes that is the government led by human rights icon Aung San Suu Kyi.

Myanmar held its first openly contested election in 25 years last November, with Nobel Laureate Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy winning a landslide victory.

Though she is barred from the presidency due to a constitutional rule, Ms Suu Kyi, who serves as State Counsellor, is seen as de-facto leader.

But her government, led as it is by a former human rights icon, has faced international criticism over the dire situation in Rakhine state.

Rights groups have questioned why journalists and aid workers are not being allowed to enter northern Rakhine.

Presidential spokesman Zaw Htay says the international media is misreporting what is going on.
 
This ties into that another recent article about the explosion of Internet access in the country and the spread of fake news. You already have Bhuddist extremists spreading fake stories about Muslims in order to stoke the fires for this kind of atrocity.

And I thought America hated Muslims...
 

Rush_Khan

Member
Modern day genocide. The UN can say whatever it wants, things won't change anytime soon unless action is taken.

I feel so bad for those people :(
 

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Aung doesn"t really "lead" the gov't, her party basically share it with these old shithead generals.

But she should still be more actively against this.
 
Any time a country claims international media bias (Russia, Turkey, Israel, North Korea, here) I'm just going to go ahead and assume things are even worse than what is reported.
 

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
So disturbing. I'm not sure anything will be done; who's going to champion the plight of a Muslim group? Worldwide sympathy for Muslims seems at an all-time low. India, China, and Russia have their own restive Muslim separatist groups to handle that they wouldn't want extra scrutiny on; Europe and America are also in an ugly mood and have little incentive to get involved.
 
This has been brewing for some time, sadly. As has the awareness that Aung San Suu Kyi and her supporters have little interest in standing up for this minority.
 

Rush_Khan

Member
You make it sound like genocide in the world stopped at some point and only just now started happening again.

Ok. That's not what I meant at all.

When people think of 'genocide' they think of Hitler and Jewish people from the last century, and how the world has supposedly moved on from those times. This is another reminder of how this is still a thing here. It's obviously not the only ethnic cleansing going on in the world right now.
 

MGrant

Member
Ok. That's not what I meant at all.

When people think of 'genocide' they think of Hitler and Jewish people from the last century, and how the world has supposedly moved on from those times. This is another reminder of how this is still a thing here. It's obviously not the only ethnic cleansing going on in the world right now.

Nah, there have been plenty of other notorious genocides since Hitler. Hutus vs. Tutsis, Serbs vs. Bosniaks, Khmer Rouge vs. Chinese and Vietnamese, Han Chinese vs. Tibetans and Uyghurs. Anyone of adult age has lived through at least a couple of these. I would hope, anyway, that they were aware of them.
 
So disturbing. I'm not sure anything will be done; who's going to champion the plight of a Muslim group? Worldwide sympathy for Muslims seems at an all-time low. India, China, and Russia have their own restive Muslim separatist groups to handle that they wouldn't want extra scrutiny on; Europe and America are also in an ugly mood and have little incentive to get involved.

Mmh, what about Muslim countries?
 

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Mmh, what about Muslim countries?
Their response has been conspicuously muted. I'm guessing it's because if they protest too loudly, they'll be asked to put their money where their mouths are, and accept larger numbers of Rohingya refugees. So far, they've taken some, but much less than needed, and reluctantly. It's an interesting twist in light of the European refugee situation.
 

Acorn

Member
Any time a country claims international media bias (Russia, Turkey, Israel, North Korea, here) I'm just going to go ahead and assume things are even worse than what is reported.
Pretty solid rule of thumb sadly.

UN slates countries then nothing happens, the UN is the weakest it's every been sadly.
 

Zapages

Member
Their response has been conspicuously muted. I'm guessing it's because if they protest too loudly, they'll be asked to put their money where their mouths are, and accept larger numbers of Rohingya refugees. So far, they've taken some, but much less than needed, and reluctantly. It's an interesting twist in light of the European refugee situation.

I distinctly remember Turkey and Pakistan raised some voices about this... Then Pakistan has to deal with Kashmir and Turkey with the whole situation in Syria.

So its not exactly like how you are painting it to be. Muslim countries that could do anything are having to deal with their own battles. :|
 

Madness

Member
Ok. That's not what I meant at all.

When people think of 'genocide' they think of Hitler and Jewish people from the last century, and how the world has supposedly moved on from those times. This is another reminder of how this is still a thing here. It's obviously not the only ethnic cleansing going on in the world right now.

No they don't. When people think of genocide they think of Rwanda, the Armenians, East Timor etc. When they think of the holocaust they think of jews and hitler.

Only an idiot thinks genocide ever stopped. I find it ironic how Pakistanis who have ethnically cleansed all Sikhs, Hindus, Jains from the country the past 50 years want to bring up the issues of Kashmir in India. We have ISIS who literally stated they wanted to rape a group out of existence etc. We have the Rohingya muslims being ethnically cleansed in Myanmar, we have Uighurs being cleansed in China just like a lot of Tibetans before them. Russia committed widespread atrocities against Chechens. In the 90's the Serbs slaughtered a lot of Kosovans. The genocide in Darfur and North vs South Sudan etc. Who ever said genocide stopped?
 

Acorn

Member
UN can send troops there and try to do something like Bosnia, East Timor, and South Sudan.... Don't know what much they can do aside from place sanctions on Burma. :|
And the troops are loaned from other countries so changes nothing. Burma just got some us sanctions removed too, hopefully they bring it back.
 
mankind was a mistake

UN bodies can give mandates to things but a country has to actually want to intervene. The UN can't compel those actions, only approve them. I can't think of any countries currently willing to launch an invasion of Burma.

doesn't everyone always leave it up to the US to step in to these situations.
 

Zapages

Member
No they don't. When people think of genocide they think of Rwanda, the Armenians, East Timor etc. When they think of the holocaust they think of jews and hitler.

Only an idiot thinks genocide ever stopped. I find it ironic how Pakistanis who have ethnically cleansed all Sikhs, Hindus, Jains from the country the past 50 years want to bring up the issues of Kashmir in India. We have ISIS who literally stated they wanted to rape a group out of existence etc. We have the Rohingya muslims being ethnically cleansed in Myanmar, we have Uighurs being cleansed in China just like a lot of Tibetans before them. Russia committed widespread atrocities against Chechens. In the 90's the Serbs slaughtered a lot of Kosovans. The genocide in Darfur and North vs South Sudan etc. Who ever said genocide stopped?

I am not going to digress the conversation here.... But state facts instead of what India has done in Hyderabad, Operation Blue Star with their Sikh's population, and Junagadh. Also think about why the atrocities and suppression the Muslim Kashmiri population in Kashmir and to this day they either want to join Pakistan or want to become Independent.

Also millions of Muslim, Sikhs, Hindus, and Jains died during the partition.

As for what happened in Bangladesh was reprehensible by the Pakistani military... But the latest news by Henry Kissinger about that brings more insight on how everything could have been avoided if India did not get involved.

Link to the news: https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/16...dence-Pak-president-told-US-in-November-1971#

The sad part about history is that its written by the victor and in this case without the whole facts. :|

ISLAMABAD: One of the world’s most famous and reputed diplomats Henry Kissinger has revealed in his latest interview to the magazine ‘The Atlantic’ that the then Pakistan’s president and its army chief had told United States President Richard Nixon in November 1971 that Pakistan would grant independence to East Pakistan.

This is stunning revelation as in November, 1971 India had not invaded East Pakistan, now Bangladesh. India invaded East Pakistan on December 3, 1971.

Henry Kissinger was 56th US Secretary of State and served from September 22, 1973 to January 20, 1977. Kissinger also served as US National Security Adviser from January 20, 1969 to November 3, 1975. Kissinger played a key role in United States foreign policy between 1969 and 1977.

In his latest interview with Jeffrey Goldberg, the Editor-in-Chief of ‘The Atlantic’, Kissinger has discussed many issues ahead of recent US elections.

While narrating events of 1971 in context of US’ opening to China and Pakistan-India Bangladesh issue, Kissinger said, “After the opening to China via Pakistan, America engaged in increasingly urging Pakistan to grant autonomy to Bangladesh. In November, the Pakistani president agreed with Nixon to grant independence the following March.”

The interview starts with the introductory para; “What follows is an extended transcript of several conversations on foreign policy I had with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger ahead of the 2016 US presidential election, which formed the basis of a story in the December issue of The Atlantic. That story, along with an interview on Kissinger’s reaction to the surprise electoral victory of Donald Trump, can be found here. The transcript below has been condensed and edited for clarity.”

The relevant question asked by The Atlantic’s Editor-In-Chief and the Kissinger response were as follows:

Goldberg: Was the opening to China worth the sacrifices, the deaths, experienced in the India-Pakistan Bangladesh crisis?

Henry Kissinger: Human rights are an essential goal of American policy. But so is national security. In some situations, no choice between them is required, making the moral issue relatively simple. But there are situations in which a conflict arises, specifically when a country important to American security or international order engages in conduct contrary to our values, requiring the president to make a series of judgments: about the magnitude of the conflict; the resources available to remedy it; the impact of our actions on its foreseeable evolution; and finally, if the president identifies a path forward, the willingness of the American public to maintain that effort. Emphasizing human rights led us into failed nation-building in Iraq; ignoring them permitted genocide in Rwanda. Contemporary policymakers face this challenge all over the world, especially all over the Middle East.

The statesman can usually only reach his goal in stages and, by definition, imperfectly. The art of policy is to move through imperfect stages towards ever-more fulfilling goals.

Your question on Bangladesh demonstrates how this issue has been confused in our public debate. There was never the choice between suffering in Bangladesh and the opening to China. It is impossible to go into detail in one far-ranging interview. However, allow me to outline some principles:

1- The opening to China began in 1969.

2- The Bangladesh crisis began in March 1971.

3- By then, we had conducted a number of highly secret exchanges with China and were on the verge of a breakthrough.

4- These exchanges were conducted through Pakistan, which emerged as the interlocutor most acceptable to Beijing and Washington.

5- The Bangladesh crisis, in its essence, was an attempt of the Bengali part of Pakistan to achieve independence. Pakistan resisted with extreme violence and gross human-rights violations.

6- To condemn these violations publicly would have destroyed the Pakistani channel, which would be needed for months to complete the opening to China, which indeed was launched from Pakistan. The Nixon administration considered the opening to China as essential to a potential diplomatic recasting towards the Soviet Union and the pursuit of peace. The US diplomats witnessing the Bangladesh tragedy were ignorant of the opening to China. Their descriptions were heartfelt and valid, but we could not respond publicly. But we made available vast quantities of food and undertook diplomatic efforts to resolve the situation.

7- After the opening to China via Pakistan, America engaged in increasingly urging Pakistan to grant autonomy to Bangladesh. In November, the Pakistani president agreed with Nixon to grant independence the following March.

8- The following December, India, after having made a treaty including military provisions with the Soviet Union, and in order to relieve the strain of refugees, invaded East Pakistan [which is today Bangladesh].

9- The US had to navigate between Soviet pressures; Indian objectives; Chinese suspicions; and Pakistani nationalism. Adjustments had to be made—and would require a book to cover—but the results require no apology. By March 1972—within less than a year of the commencement of the crisis—Bangladesh was independent; the India-Pakistan War ended; and the opening to China completed at a summit in Beijing in February 1972. A summit in Moscow in May 1972 resulted in a major nuclear arms control agreement [SALT I]. Relations with India were restored by 1974 with the creation of a US-Indian Joint Commission [the Indo-US Joint Commission on Economic, Commercial, Scientific, Technological, Educational and Cultural Cooperation], which remains part of the basis of contemporary US-India relations. Compared with Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, and Afghanistan, the sacrifices made in 1971 have had a far more clear-cut end.
 

orochi91

Member
Sanctioning the fuck out Burma would be a good first step, I suppose.

That should force their government to do something about the current crisis within their northern states.

I fucking despise extremists, especially the religious/ethnocentric variety.
 

vivekTO

Member
I am not going to digress the conversation here.... But state facts instead of what India has done in Hyderabad, Operation Blue Star with their Sikh's population, and Junagadh. Also think about why the atrocities and suppression the Muslim Kashmiri population in Kashmir and to this day they either want to join Pakistan or want to become Independent.

Also millions of Muslim, Sikhs, Hindus, and Jains died during the partition.

As for what happened in Bangladesh was reprehensible by the Pakistani military... But the latest news by Henry Kissinger about that brings more insight on how everything could have been avoided if India did not get involved.

Link to the news: https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/16...dence-Pak-president-told-US-in-November-1971#

The sad part about history is that its written by the victor and in this case without the whole facts. :|


Sadly , you have omitted The absolute ethnic cleansing of a Majority group"kashmiri pandit" from there own land. And Stop feeding on the news which wants you to be in an echo chamber.

About the bold , so if INDIA avoided the war, then pakistani soldier wouldn't haved raped 100k women in bangladesh, that too muslims, or are you saying that it is justified as india got involved. What type of point are you raising here.
 

vivekTO

Member
Y'all might want to take your Pakistan vs. India oppression Olympics somewhere else; it isn't relevant to this thread.

most of the time, I don't comment on these topics but when people just straight bullshiting crap as facts from ass , it needs to be questioned.and mainly when you are painting one sided picture.

I am editing this post so as to not to make a new post , but for the poster below.
Stating an article from a News outline(pak) is not a fact or solid, dear. Also the history you have been taught is so distorted , there is no point in arguing over it. its really waste of our time.
 

Zapages

Member
Sadly , you have omitted The absolute ethnic cleansing of a Majority group"kashmiri pandit" from there own land. And Stop feeding on the news which wants you to be in an echo chamber.

About the bold , so if INDIA avoided the war, then pakistani soldier wouldn't haved raped 100k women in bangladesh, that too muslims, or are you saying that it is justified as india got involved. What type of point are you raising here.

Pakistan doesn't have any control of the Kashmir Valley. It was the ethnic Kashmiri Muslims who conducted those actions. So stop blaming Pakistan on that.

India should never gotten involved in Pakistan's dispute. All I am saying is India should mind her own business. Also from eye witness accounts what did the Mukti Bahni did to Pro-West Pakistan folks in present day Bangladesh is extremely sad as well, but most folks don't bring that up and poor state of Bihari folks (who were Pro-Pakistan) in present day Bangladesh....

Also Prime Minister's Modi's remarks on how they helped Mukti Bahni to break Pakistan up.

DHAKA: Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Sunday recalled his participation in the Jana Sangh campaign backing the rebels in former East Pakistan as he accepted a ‘liberation war’ honour on behalf of former premier Atal Bihari Vajpayee, reported the media.

Admitting that there had been a conspiracy to divide Pakistan, he said the establishment of Bangladesh was a desire of every Indian and that’s why India’s forces fought along with the Mukti Bahini, thus creating a new country.

Modi said he was one of the young volunteers who came to Delhi in 1971 to participate in the Satyagraha Movement launched by Jana Sangh as a volunteer to garner support for the Mukti Bahini members.

Speaking at the ceremony to receive the award ‘Bangladesh Liberation War Honour’ from President Abdul Hamid and in messages at a social networking website, Modi recalled Vajpayee’s speech in parliament on December 6, 1971, in which he asked the government to recognise Bangladesh as a nation.

The citation of the award hailed Vajpayee as a “highly respected political leader” and recognised his “active role”.He praised his Bangladeshi counterpart Hasina Wajid for the crackdown against ‘terrorists’ and said India, Nepal, Bhutan and Bangladesh had decided to promote trade relations.

Source: https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/12923-indian-forces-fought-along-mukti-bahini-modi

Overall I am saying the course of history could have been changed if things were different.

most of the time, I don't comment on these topics but when people just straight bullshiting crap as facts from ass , it needs to be questioned.and mainly when you are painting one sided picture.

Who is sharing the one sided information.... I am not here.... I am presenting facts that the situation was more complicated and yet you don't answer the questions I raised. :|


Anyway back on topic: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...mar-crackdown-bangladesh-161117062551006.html
 

Madness

Member
Y'all might want to take your Pakistan vs. India oppression Olympics somewhere else; it isn't relevant to this thread.

Uh you want to re-read my comment? That was a small part of my comment that was in direct relation to who I quoted. Most of my comment was relevant to the thread, the others ran with it to other parts. How about you not try to moderate the thread when you aren't a moderator.
 
"The BBC cannot visit the area to verify what is occurring there as journalists and aid workers have been barred."

53529697.jpg
 

orochi91

Member
Uh you want to re-read my comment? That was a small part of my comment that was in direct relation to who I quoted. Most of my comment was relevant to the thread, the others ran with it to other parts. How about you not try to moderate the thread when you aren't a moderator.
Let's isolate the quote in question, from which the derail spawned, ergo, your contribution to the Pakistan vs. India oppression Olympics that I pointed out:
I find it ironic how Pakistanis who have ethnically cleansed all Sikhs, Hindus, Jains from the country the past 50 years want to bring up the issues of Kashmir in India
Why did you specifically call out Pakistan's concerns surrounding Kashmir as ironic (as if their past behaviour in the region justifies India's current actions; two wrongs don't make a right), yet refrained from doing the same with the other incidents you've listed? You're clearly trying to delegitmize one side's concerns in that specific instance, hence why people responded to it. It wasn't even subtle, lol

That wasn't a case of me backseat modding, that was me politely asking you to take that BS bait elsewhere.

If you want to pursue this line of conversation, hit me up in a PM, because I won't be responding further to that topic here.
 

StayDead

Member
mankind was a mistake



doesn't everyone always leave it up to the US to step in to these situations.

Not really, it's usually the US who want to get involved right away when there's something to have there. I don't think the US are going to get anything good with Burma.

Look at all the genocides happening in Africa right now between different religious groups and how many people outside of those countries seem to care. They're sadly not even reported on and they never make big news despite how awful it is.
 

orochi91

Member
Mmh, what about Muslim countries?

Their response has been conspicuously muted. I'm guessing it's because if they protest too loudly, they'll be asked to put their money where their mouths are, and accept larger numbers of Rohingya refugees. So far, they've taken some, but much less than needed, and reluctantly. It's an interesting twist in light of the European refugee situation.

Malaysia and Indonesia have taken in refugees from the Northern States for a temporary duration of time, as have Bangladesh and the Philippines.

Refugee are numbered in excess of ~140K, majority of which hail from the areas of Myanmar where persecution is intense.

The solution should be to hold the Myanmar government accountable and end the witch-hunts, not create long-term Rohingya refugee camps across Asia and the ME.

Which Muslim countries do you folks specifically think need to step up? Most of the capable ones in the region are seemingly mired in their own domestic/international problems (existing refugees, terrorism and other military initiatives).
Every fucking thread.... sigh

This shit got old a long time ago

Indeed.
 
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...a-thailand-over-violence-against/3317750.html

SINGAPORE: Protesters in Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand held rallies at the Myanmar embassies of each country on Friday (Nov 25) seeking an end to oppression of ethnic Rohingya Muslims.

Escalating violence has reportedly killed at least 86 people and displaced some 30,000.

Myanmar soldiers have also been accused of sexually assaulting dozens of women from the minority group.

In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysian NGOs joined hundreds of Rohingya Muslims in staging the protests against the violence in Rakhine.
 
I distinctly remember Turkey and Pakistan raised some voices about this... Then Pakistan has to deal with Kashmir and Turkey with the whole situation in Syria.

So its not exactly like how you are painting it to be. Muslim countries that could do anything are having to deal with their own battles. :|


Middle east is full of money countries that can do something but won't. Do they ever help anyone?
 

orochi91

Member
Middle east is full of money countries that can do something but won't. Do they ever help anyone?
Why would they? Just because the Gulf States are predominately Muslim doesn't obligate them to help anyone, especially given their own appalling Human Rights records.

They barely even help out their own fellow Arabs suffering in Syria and Iraq

:V
 

Chairman Yang

if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Malaysia and Indonesia have taken in refugees from the Northern States for a temporary duration of time, as have Bangladesh and the Philippines.

Refugee are numbered in excess of ~140K, majority of which hail from the areas of Myanmar where persecution is intense.

The solution should be to hold the Myanmar government accountable and end the witch-hunts, not create long-term Rohingya refugee camps across Asia and the ME.
I agree, I just don't see that happening. Accepting refugees is the only realistic alternative.

Which Muslim countries do you folks specifically think need to step up? Most of the capable ones in the region are seemingly mired in their own domestic/international problems (existing refugees, terrorism and other military initiatives).
I don't necessarily think Muslim countries need to step up. I was just explaining why they don't seem to want to; the more they complain, the more obligated they'll be to take in refugees.

That said, the richer Arab states could do a lot of good. But as you say later, they're basically scum and won't do it.
 
Im actually surprised at the lack of traction from this thread, bar the Pakistan vs India nonsense as usual. This is a serious issue.
 

Dalibor68

Banned
"The BBC cannot visit the area to verify what is occurring there as journalists and aid workers have been barred."

53529697.jpg

Well what do you want them to do if they literally can't verify reportings? That is responsible journalism.

Aside from that, absolutely horrible what's happening. I was about to write "It's really sad but as shown by this thread, many people don't care whats happening far away in small countries" when I looked up Myanmar and it actually has 52million people as well as almost twice the landmass as germany, what the hell? Definitely should be more awareness here.
 
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