Yeah he's fine. He just ran against the door. Nothing to see here.
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United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat
- Thread starter Korey
- Start date
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Yeah he's fine. He just ran against the door. Nothing to see here.
This only broke a few hours ago and it's the middle of the night. Media reps have been contacting the poster for permission to use the footage, so I expect it'll hit tomorrow morning:
CNN: https://twitter.com/CNNJustin/status/851342142308061184
NBC: https://twitter.com/erinfdean/status/851260915114680321
BBC: https://twitter.com/BBC_HaveYourSay/status/851364480630091776
you do not sign a contract once you enter a bar. Having bought the flight grants you the right to take that flight as long as you don't break any rules noted in the contract. At least thats the way following EU laws but maybe USA is handling that very differently.
Also I don't think that it is "childish" to scream out of pain if you get kinda knocked out by force and suffer bleeding from the mouth.
Trying to put any blame on a doctor who insists that he needs to see his patients feels very strange.
AlfonzoPalutena
Member
Yeah, overbooking is dumb but it wasn't really the issue here
The issue is, someone decided it would be a good idea to cap compensation at $800, and when that failed to entice people they did a Hunger Games style reaping, complete with uniformed Peacekeepers to enforce the random selection of who gets booted off the flight.
The issue is, someone decided it would be a good idea to cap compensation at $800, and when that failed to entice people they did a Hunger Games style reaping, complete with uniformed Peacekeepers to enforce the random selection of who gets booted off the flight.
MikeHattsu
Member
It's a standby crew, not employees with standby tickets:
http://www.flygosh.com/2011/09/exciting-life-of-pilotcabin-crew-during.html
SuperBowser
Member
Uhhh, how does this not cause national outrage.
Assaulting and forcibly removing a doctor on their way to work from a plane seat they paid for is all kinds of messed up.
There's so many better and more appropriate ways to handle this.
Assaulting and forcibly removing a doctor on their way to work from a plane seat they paid for is all kinds of messed up.
There's so many better and more appropriate ways to handle this.
somecrazymember
Banned
I really don't understand the concept of noone intervening, and instead filming it all. Of course filming it is bad publicity so I guess you're doing the right thing.. but the guy still got fucked up. 
MikeHattsu
Member
Yeah, I guess you could call them that.
The airline told guy to get off the plane. He didn't. Police forcibly removed him. Where in this does it seem like a good idea to physically inject yourself? The bystanders did the best thing they could.I really don't understand the concept of noone intervening, and instead filming it all. Of course filming it is bad publicity so I guess you're doing the right thing.. but the guy still got fucked up.
this makes even less sense. it's not like they're replacing crew on this flight. flight crew don't sit in passenger seats.
unless united is flying in their standby crew. at which point, that's even worse.
Ah I see. Thanks. Still a terrible look for United. How to fuck up your brand 101.
If he is that sucks but how does one know that? And what does patients waiting mean? Life or death? An inconvenience of having to reschedule? An emergency open heart surgery? How do you know? And if it is just routine business for him does that make it more important than anyone else's stuff going on in their lives just because he's a doctor?
It's all shit that's irrelevant because if you book something you should expect to be able to take it barring mechanical or natural disaster. I'm not on the side of the airline I just think people unwilling to follow the rules as established need to be mentally and physically prepared for what happens next. That's why I think he acted like a baby, I believe placing yourself into a situation you can't emotionally or physically handle is childish. It's not wrong, he wasn't in the wrong here, but grown adults should be able to see the inevitable conclusion of their immediate actions beforehand and make an intelligent decision in advance.
So when do you stop raising the offer? What if no one accepts? You give a reasonable offer, no one accepts, you make it random with the same compensation.
And it isn't really relevant what his circumstances are. What if the other passengers had dying family, or the biggest interview of their life? If you're doing a random choice, you can't take that into account. But yeah, you're certainly right he's "getting paid" whether he meant for the outrage to enable that or not is anyone's guess.
Yeah, I've not denied it is terrible PR and perhaps there were other options, but we don't know that and even if there were, it is a private entities right to choose whatever option they see fit. Again, completely shitty but that's why you follow the rules and kick up afterwards.
That's United's problem to solve without riding roughshod over their customers. Yes, those Louisville passengers would also have a problem, but United shouldn't be playing a numbers game with their passengers, when the stakes are potentially getting dragged like this off a plane and injured.
Cool.
MikeHattsu
Member
Nah, it's the same kind of rules in Europe:
http://www.airpassengerrights.eu/en/your-rights-a-summary.html
The standby crew was in Chicago and needed to get to Louisville for the flight on which they were the replacement crew for.
ClosingADoor
Member
It was handled terribly, but at the same time, it isn't like the security guy held his head over the armrest and smashed his face in it. The passenger refused to leave, security has to remove him by force.
Nice lawsuit incoming.
How are they going to defend this? He refused to volunteer?
He paid for the seat, why should he leave?
How are they going to defend this? He refused to volunteer?
He paid for the seat, why should he leave?
I live for these moments... i purposely book earlier flights or late flights in the hopes that I get an overbooked flight. When I check in, I get and alert asking if I would like to be a volunteer before I get to the gate. I usually say yes, unless I have a very import meeting. One day while flying to Miami, I got 1300 dollars to change my flight to one leaving an hour later to Ft Lauderdale. The money can only be used for United flights, so the inconvenience may not be worth it to those that don't intend to use United again or travel period.
I am usually flying for work, so I don't mind the delay. But if I had something to do, then there is no way you are getting me off of that plane, over to baggage claim, in a taxi and into a hotel only to do the whole check in procedure again the next day.
I am usually flying for work, so I don't mind the delay. But if I had something to do, then there is no way you are getting me off of that plane, over to baggage claim, in a taxi and into a hotel only to do the whole check in procedure again the next day.
Wow! They still get the money of no show ups but why not make even more right? Fuck this shit.
Claude Augario
Member
So after they beat his ass and dragged him off the plane, they let him back on all bloody and disoriented anyway? If it was so important to get him off the plane, why did they let him back on? I noticed the defense force isn't acknowledging that.
If you're forcing someone to do something, then it isn't volunteering. They were still using the word at that point.
Impotaku
Member
Absolutely.
There is no excuse to overbook it's just pure corporate greed, if a passenger doesn't turn up for their booked seat on a flight they don't magically get refunded. They lose their ticket money so the airline already has the ticket holders money.
ClosingADoor
Member
I don't agree with the overbooking practice, but those are the regulations. So when confronted with it, asked to leave and then refuse, the next step is to do it forcibly.
And in this case they needed to bring 4 crew to another city. So even if the plane wasn't overbooked, those 4 crew still needed to be brought along. He wasn't replaced for another regular passenger.
Crazymoogle
Member
The amounts are such a joke. I was in this sort of situation before (United Flight asking for people to get off the plane after boarding) and because it was an international flight anyone who did consider getting off was waiting for the promise of a business or 1st class ticket, which $800 is nowhere close to covering.
In my case the plane took off anyway without booting people and had to land in anchorage to drop off cargo (and then a 3 hour delay to find new crew) but the "standard" fees smack of beIng decided by Airlines. :-/
Sakura
Member
It sucks what happened to him, but I don't know what you would expect when you are told to leave the plane, and refuse. They told him security would be coming if he didn't get off, and that's what happened.
Maybe overbooking shouldn't be legal, or maybe they should offer better compensation, but as is I don't really see how the airline wasn't within their rights.
Maybe overbooking shouldn't be legal, or maybe they should offer better compensation, but as is I don't really see how the airline wasn't within their rights.
Don't pretty much all airlines in the US do this?
Why are you assuming that his business wasn't important enough to warrant this?
Let's say that he has life saving medical procedures scheduled, and no one else is available to perform them. "Oh, I'll just let my patients die and complain afterwards, I don't want to look like a baby."
Randy Monk
Member
I'll laugh until my head comes off
Women and United Airlines first
And United Airlines first
And United Airlines
Women and United Airlines first
And United Airlines first
And United Airlines
SuperBowser
Member
Well it's nice to know people will find a way to use mental gymnastics to blame a doctor that legally paid for his seat and just wanted to see his patients.
Just absurd.
Just absurd.
So? How many times do you think that they're told by a passenger denied passage that their case is special? How do they verify that in a timely manner? And again merely having patients doesn't tell you whether it's dire or not, he could just be doing routine shit that's easily covered by his coworkers for all we know.
The problem's not that they ignored his objection, frankly, I don't think people should be stuck trying to outbid each other over how important it is they're not the one kicked off a flight, it's that we allow overbooking at all. But if we are going to allow overbooking then you have to make peace with the fact that sometimes people are going to be removed from flights. If you're not ok with that the answer isn't to turn the crew into judges of the importance of their passengers' lives but make overbooking illegal.
The DOT provides this guide where the airline arranges substitute transportation
Delay Domestic flights International flights
No compensation. 0 to 1 hour arrival delay 0 to 1 hour arrival delay
200% of one-way fare (up to US$650) 1 to 2 hour arrival delay 1 to 4 hour arrival delay
400% of one-way fare (up to US$1,300). Over 2 hours arrival delay Over 4 hours arrival delay
+ accomodation, meals etc if its a long/overnight delay.
Depending on how much people paid they are due the above in CASH.
Do not take vouchers. Straight cash
Delay Domestic flights International flights
No compensation. 0 to 1 hour arrival delay 0 to 1 hour arrival delay
200% of one-way fare (up to US$650) 1 to 2 hour arrival delay 1 to 4 hour arrival delay
400% of one-way fare (up to US$1,300). Over 2 hours arrival delay Over 4 hours arrival delay
+ accomodation, meals etc if its a long/overnight delay.
Depending on how much people paid they are due the above in CASH.
Do not take vouchers. Straight cash
I'm going to have to stop responding to you because I'm pretty sure I'll say something that will get me banned.
Not surprised to see a defense force. I don't see how anyone could ever fly on this airline again after seeing this shit.
As someone who travels frequently in the US I can assure you that the robbery has been in full swing for years.
As someone who travels frequently in the US I can assure you that the robbery has been in full swing for years.
NeoGold123
Member
...so since this company allows for its employees to take the seats of paying passengers, we should, as customers of this company, either let them do it and say wompwomp, or CHANGE THE LAW. Boy oh boy, you heard em, folks, it's just that easy.
I still don't get how it was acceptable to prepare an incentive of 800$ per person, but not look into buying a plane or bus ticket for the four employees with that money. Even if UA doesn't manage to vacate four seats on that one flight, how did the scheduling become so tight that they couldn't find an alternative to beating up random customers and tanking their public image?
Also, given the likely fallout, they should have gone for a higher compensation before resorting to violence. I mean, dammit, a company has got to have some emergency funds lying around for, well, emergencies like that. A flight crew not turning up at their respective airport (and thus grounding the machine with all passengers on it) is definitely more expensive than paying four people 1600 USD or whatever they would have ended up with. Not to mention the PR damage.
Also, given the likely fallout, they should have gone for a higher compensation before resorting to violence. I mean, dammit, a company has got to have some emergency funds lying around for, well, emergencies like that. A flight crew not turning up at their respective airport (and thus grounding the machine with all passengers on it) is definitely more expensive than paying four people 1600 USD or whatever they would have ended up with. Not to mention the PR damage.
No they weren't. Volunteering and voluntary are two different things.
Because anyone could have any number of reasons why they shouldn't be asked to leave. If you've done random selection you need to disregard individual circumstances and deal with the consequences afterwards.
It looks like he did have reason enough for United to get him back on the flight, as he did go back on, but he could have gotten that same result without refusing the airline security.
Again, it is absolutely shitty to do a customer but they have the right to ask him to leave and you comply and resolve afterwards. Physical removal is an escalation that you'd want to avoid, but if someone is refusing to leave, private business have the option to do so.
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