Maybe I am mixing up with the show, but Viserys was definitely dead at that point, and Jorah got a royal pardon to figure out it was happening.
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- Thread starter Cornballer
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Maybe I am mixing up with the show, but Viserys was definitely dead at that point, and Jorah got a royal pardon to figure out it was happening.
Well Viserys is dead when the wine seller tries to kill Dany in Vaes Dothrak but certainly wasn't dead when the assassin was initially arranged.
In the show Jorah gets a pardon and works it out, in the books he gets a letter from Illyrio which could say anything.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Yup.
My only complaint about the Aegon thing is the juxtaposition between him landing in Westeros and conquering shit quickly vs Dany still being bogged down. It made Dany's already frustrating chapters even more frustrating.
Connington definitely had a great POV and I look forward to more.
Steelyuhas
Member
Sure, the character's logic for their actions seems fine, still doesn't make it not frustrating for the audience though that Dany is stuck in the endless Meereen plot.
It is not late in the game and Aegon is the realisation of Varys's story line that was introduced halfway into the first book.
And none of this is right. It was always about Aegon, Viserys and Dany were only ever pawns to get the dothraki swords to Westeros. That Illyrio suggests that Ned could die because JA died doesn't mean Varys had anything to do with JA's death. As we know he didn't.
One of my biggest problems with most long running stories is that the authors fail to make anyone interesting/plot relevant aside from the characters that were around the longest. It's been really refreshing to have Aegon and Euron hijack the narrative and subvert this common storytelling flaw.
The Westeros that Daenerys arrives in and the White Walkers invade will be totally different than what I was expecting all along. I think and hope that Aegon is going to be a lot more important than a lot of you think. Its cool to imagine what Dany will do if a Targ is already sitting on the throne and doing a competent job.
My biggest problem with the show right now is that without these characters, the overall plot is too obvious. Dany and Jon's alliance and Cersei's downfall is clear from so far away it's kinda boring to watch it play out. I wish they'd just hurry up with Dany and Jon's marriage tbh...
The Westeros that Daenerys arrives in and the White Walkers invade will be totally different than what I was expecting all along. I think and hope that Aegon is going to be a lot more important than a lot of you think. Its cool to imagine what Dany will do if a Targ is already sitting on the throne and doing a competent job.
My biggest problem with the show right now is that without these characters, the overall plot is too obvious. Dany and Jon's alliance and Cersei's downfall is clear from so far away it's kinda boring to watch it play out. I wish they'd just hurry up with Dany and Jon's marriage tbh...
It wasn't always about Aegon. That is clearly a retcon.
There is absolutely zero foreshadowing that Illyrio and Varys are supporting anyone but Viserys. The whole conversation in AGoT between the two makes no sense with the future revelations in the series.
Stuff about Varys killing a Hand, ignored
Stuff about Varys being a wizard, ignored
It is clear George changed his mind about a whole lot of things
DarkJediKnight
Member
And just how Littlefinger described it too! Crowd roaring and then slowmo past Elia and then silence.
I just want to see my guys Beric, Thoros, and Clegane get in the thick of things. Nothing since the first episode. The inevitable Clegane/Brienne/Arya/Sansa reunion should be great.
We know from the trailers that at least Beric makes it north of the wall, and Jon Snow is with him. We have to get moving in that direction soon. Jon is still in Dragonstone.
We know from the trailers that at least Beric makes it north of the wall, and Jon Snow is with him. We have to get moving in that direction soon. Jon is still in Dragonstone.
I feel like Jon's going to fly up to Eastwatch at the end of this coming episode on a dragon, and I'm not at all sure it's what I want.
You really have no idea what you're talking about and should stop.
That sounds like a winning argument.
Please provide any evidence that in the novel A Game of Thrones that shows Varys and Illyrio were working against Viserys/Daenerys.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Aegon seems poised to be king by the end of Winds, I wouldn't call him trivial. Also if you've read that Damphair sample chapter you know Euron is the real deal, to put it lightly. I agree with those who pointed out the series has always been a series of acts. It has nothing to do with introducing something late or making something up.
Well, there's the fact that they were deemed unimportant enough to be sent off into the Dothraki Sea, where anything could have happened to them. Seems like they only started to care about Dany when she got her dragons. Growing up, Dany/Viserys moved from town to town as virtual beggars. Doesn't seem like the way you'd treat plan A assets.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
that's what doran did.
Important enough to be given 3 priceless dragon eggs. And Illyrio insisted that Viserys should stay in Pentos.
If Illyrio and Varys wanted them dead or out the way why even bother with the whole Dothraki endeavour, just kill them and be done with it. Why do they need Drogo in Westeros, they have the Golden Company!! And apparently more money than sense.
So why is Varys joking about being a wizard if he hates magic? Why are they talking like they had a part in Jon Arryn's death?
The dragon eggs may have been little more than a wedding gift, maybe Illyrio toyed with the notion of something potentially happening but in itself it's not enough to resoundingly say he was banking on it. I'll confess it's been years since I read the books (waiting until WoW gets a release date before the re-read lol) so I can't debate you on specifics. I recall enough to be able to selectively google though, and it seems like fAegon was at least thought of as a possibility in GRRM's original plans; there's the mummer's dragon reference in the HotU:
... what does any of it mean Khaleesi? A mummer's dragon, you said. What is a mummer's dragon, pray?"
"A cloth dragon on poles," Dany explained. "Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight."
"A cloth dragon on poles," Dany explained. "Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight."
And there are repeated references throughout the early books to Clegane dashing Aegon's head against the wall, which in itself seems like foreshadowing.
Ultimately though, as someone who has dabbled in writing before, I know that a lot of it is just written on-the-fly. GRRM seems to be able to plan and foresee where he's going better than most, but I wouldn't be surprised if fAegon is just something he put in the later books. It's not sloppy, that's how books are written. Look at how Tolkien changed the Golem encounter in later editions of the Hobbit.
Ocarina_117
Banned
They could have had a hand in Jon Arryn's death, it may not have been solely LF's work. From what we know Varys also wants chaos in the land for when fAegon arrives.
I always thought their plan was for Aegon to team up with Viserys/Dany. He was not supposed to invade w/ the golden company. It was Tyrion who made him rush to it.
With regards to the eggs. I dont think anyone in the world expected them to hatch.
I always thought their plan was for Aegon to team up with Viserys/Dany. He was not supposed to invade w/ the golden company. It was Tyrion who made him rush to it.
With regards to the eggs. I dont think anyone in the world expected them to hatch.
Its the endgame. Its always going to be obvious if it makes sense.
Yeah I'm not really criticising George here but the argument that he foreshadowed and had the Aegon plot thought out all along just isn't true. The Aegon plot is ripped from history and he probably had an idea he wanted to come back to it but he only formed how it was going to happen in A Clash of Kings.
I'm only pointing out that the seams of the ret-con are there to see.
rockinreelin
Member
Osha was such a great character in the show and the actress who played her was fantastic but they totally sidelined her and then they remembered her character existed so they just killed her off lol. I was pretty bummed about that.
That's still pretty well-thought out, ACoK came out in 1998 and ADwD came out in 2011. I don't think I've ever read another author who plans as meticulously as GRRM
although i guess anyone could do it if they had decades in which to incubate their ideas
Oldest Snake
Member
The Martell's were not aware of Aegon's existence nor of Varys's plan to restore House Targaryen.
Is there any point? You seem committed to your nonsense.
Varys and Illyrio needed swords. Bulk numbers. The Dothraki were their fix and Viserys and Dany were only ever a means to that end. Hence why they are prepared to kill Dany as it means it will bring Drogo west, and why Illyrio didn't care enough to stop Viserys from going along.
The hard bit is getting the dothraki west, if they can manage that then getting them aligned behind Aegon is nothing.
The idea that he made up the history of a dance of dragons, and then after that decided he'd put a second into the main series is most amusing.
The Martell's were also not seemingly helping Viserys and Daenerys either. That is another huge gap in the Dorne plot. If Arianne was to marry Viserys why does he know nothing about it, why is there no Dornish version of Jon Connington; befriending, guarding, advising the young King.
The Real Napsta
Member
I've never watched GoT on HBO Go before, does it go up right away?
Isn't it kind of assumed that their plan was for Aegon to come in AFTER Viserys attacked Westeros? Viserys' invasion with a violent foreign army would throw the continent in disarray, only for the heroic Aegon to swoop in and save the day. Varys' whole deal is creating instability in Westeros so that Aegon will be lauded once he picks up the pieces.
I'm more interested to learn how Jaime gets out of that bottomless pit. Maybe he isn't found for days, and when they bring him up, he starts saying gibberish. JAIME = PATCHFACE
I'm more interested to learn how Jaime gets out of that bottomless pit. Maybe he isn't found for days, and when they bring him up, he starts saying gibberish. JAIME = PATCHFACE
They needed the Dothraki before but not now? Weird.
What, a second Dragon? Surely you mean a fourth since it is pretty clear by Jon and Tyrion are foreshadowed as Targaryans.
Unfortunately it isn't uncommon, even though the GC expected the dothraki to join them.
No, when Dany birthed three dragons and got her own army (including a khalasar) they no longer needed Drogo's 50k dothraki.
Fuck knows what else you're on about.
Aegon won't be worth a thing later on, he's only there to serve as an (interesting) diversion to the current plot and to tie things together in WoW. He's obviously a setup of the Company and will likely be revealed to be a fake soon.
He's only a detterent to Jon's claim on the throne, since it has always been obvious the series was working towards that goal of Jon being the legimate heir to all of this. The whole mysterious Harrenhal sequence, the reason why Robert's Rebellion started, the title of the damn series, the prince who was promised, the only one actually willing to battle against the real enemy. A legitimate Aegon would serve nothing to the plot that is clearly the endgame of the whole series.
He's only a detterent to Jon's claim on the throne, since it has always been obvious the series was working towards that goal of Jon being the legimate heir to all of this. The whole mysterious Harrenhal sequence, the reason why Robert's Rebellion started, the title of the damn series, the prince who was promised, the only one actually willing to battle against the real enemy. A legitimate Aegon would serve nothing to the plot that is clearly the endgame of the whole series.
The Artisan
Member
Goddamn, Ramsey is such a cocksucker. So he's given more of a backstory in the books...for bookreaders though I'm guessing it can still be assumed that he did the same shit on the show as he did in the books unless the show specified or clarified otherwise. So it's still kind of a loose end on how Petyr didn't know about him.
So really this wannabe Aegon is not as significant a character as he makes himself out to be. We don't know what his arc is yet, it doesn't sound like there's any show character based on him, so whatever his arc is it'll probably add something very different to the story from what we're seeing on the show.
lol, there are no unicorns on the show, though. And I'm glad for that.
Usually a couple of minutes before 9
Cesare Borgia
Banned
He's definitely a Blackfyre. Why would Martin edit the mention of the sword out of the original text if he wasn't? Martin clearly thought it was too big of a tell to the audience. Illyrio has the sword and it'll be given to Aegon at some point in Winds, count on it.
peteykirch
Member
That Eastwatch title sequence :-D
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Bronn and Jaime swam 2 miles downstream underwater....
Crimson_Gold
Member
How did they both survive? I'm already upset. They should at least have burns
Munch Poke
Member
All of us did.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I'm pissed that Bronn and Jaime weren't captured.
That's some bullshit right there.
That's some bullshit right there.