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[James0007]

The whole tech arms race around pushing graphics fidelity has completely pushed me away from most AAA gaming now. I'm having a great time playing mostly older (recently Max Payne 3, Star Wars Battlefront, Alien Isolation) titles or great indie games.

Even the lazy reply of 'just get better hardware' no longer holds fruit - when given leaked specs, a PlayStation 6 will be playing Borderlands 4 at upscaled 1080p with frame drops into the 30's still. What a future to be excited for.

There's such a huge library nowadays of great videogames to dig into - I look at my steam library with 3.5k games in it and realise I could stop buying games now and be happy for the rest of my life as it stands. If devs can't be arsed making quality software then I cba buying it - pushing fidelity to the detriment of stable performance doesn't make a great game. Especially given the scope of most games hasn't really moved on since the 360/PS3 days. It's easy to forget that we were playing GTAV & The Last of Us all the way back then.

 

[Tokio Blues]

We should wait to see Witcher 4. The techical demo was very impressive and it was running on UE5. Also at 60FPS

 

[PlayStaytion]

Developers choose engines based on what they feel will help them the most.

Sounds like UE5 games been made purposely to run better on next gen consoles, we can't getaway from this loop.

 

[ScHlAuChi]

Well you named 2 already but they can also create their own engine. Anyway I already said UE5 is the more viable solution you should care more to read all I said not just what make you jump to the chair.

Yes I named those as licenceable engines, but that doesnt mean they are a viable option!

Unity is technically worse than Unreal and has never been used in a single AAA game.
CryEngine while technically viable, hasnt been updated for over 2 years, doesnt seem to be in active development currently and has worse licencing terms than Unreal.
Making your own engine isnt an option unless you have endless time and money, hence why more devs stopped doing that.

This means Unreal is the ONLY viable option for 99% of developers!
Is that ideal? Probably not, but thats just how it is!

 

[Guilty_AI]

Yes I named those as licenceable engines, but that doesnt mean they are a viable option!

Unity is technically worse than Unreal and has never been used in a single AAA game.
CryEngine while technically viable, hasnt been updated for over 2 years, doesnt seem to be in active development currently and has worse licencing terms than Unreal.
Making your own engine isnt an option unless you have endless time and money, hence why more devs stopped doing that.

This means Unreal is the ONLY viable option for 99% of developers!
Is that ideal? Probably not, but thats just how it is!

If we're talking indie, there are still tons of other options, including free and open source ones like godot. There are specialized engines for different types of common indie games available too, like gzdoom for retro first person games, ren'py for visual novels, rpg maker, gamemaker for 2d games, etc.

For AAA, they have the funds for making in-house engines, more often than not these studios already have a perfectly capable engine of their own, like id tech 8, REDengine, Decima, Divinity Engine, 4A engine, etc.

 

[Clear]

If we're talking indie, there are still tons of other options, including free and open source ones like godot. There are specialized engines for different types of common indie games available too, like gzdoom for retro first person games, ren'py for visual novels, rpg maker, gamemaker for 2d games, etc.

For AAA, they have the funds for making in-house engines, more often than not these studios already have a perfectly capable engine of their own, like id tech 8, REDengine, Decima, Divinity Engine, 4A engine, etc.

The issue is training and experience with the tool-chain. You can't just pick up these extraordinarily complex programs in an afternoon!

Maintaining your own engine also complicates staffing and therefore productivity over the long-term. Its a very substantial overhead for minimal material gain, as ultimately the functionality matters more than the tools used to achieve it.

 

[dgrdsv]

I dont think we can say that the engine is highly CPU limited just because its pushing physics we have simply not seen in other games. Including UE5 games. DF saw it at gamescom running on a PC and it was running at 60 fps. Maybe if Massive, Anvil, Northlight, and UE5 were pushing physics like the ones we saw then sure we could blame the engine, but we havent.

It's not pushing anything out of the ordinary in Hitman where it is highly CPU limited.

I dont know how you can say it has a bad RT implementation

Cause I've played Hitman with RT. It's bad to the point where you generally get worse image after enabling it.

LODs fine. Maybe they dont have nanite but you also really see it when driving at fast speeds and its on par with what ive seen in Mafia while driving and Avatar while flying. It could just be that the PS5 footage we saw has a shorter draw distance.

You don't see it in UE5. It does have its own "popin-like" issues but they aren't linked to geometry usually. Point is though that this is a clear indication of a last gen engine which wasn't improved since then - and as such it's not really a UE5 competitor which is truly current gen.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The issue is training and experience with the tool-chain. You can't just pick up these extraordinarily complex programs in an afternoon!

Maintaining your own engine also complicates staffing and therefore productivity over the long-term. Its a very substantial overhead for minimal material gain, as ultimately the functionality matters more than the tools used to achieve it.

I would've agreed with you moons ago, but nowadays devs still need a team dedicated to maintaning the engine all the same, even if its a third party one.

I'd say the larger issue is just how the current industry is stuck in a constant state of hiring and firing thousands of people at every new dev cycle instead of retaining talent (not to mention outsourcing). This does generate the need of new blood coming into the job mostly knowledgeable of how to do stuff and the use of standard tools and work pipelines.

Thing is, these realities feed into the very problem op is talking about, so i'd say overreliance on UE is more of a symptom to a larger issue rather than the issue itself.

 

[Coloress_Kafka]

We should wait to see Witcher 4. The techical demo was very impressive and it was running on UE5. Also at 60FPS

This is true, but at the same time it's obvious Epic is bending over backwards to use this game as a marketing tool. So if The Witcher 4 looks and plays impressive because CDPR have a direct line to the best engineers at Epic to fix problems that doesn't really solve things for the average developer.

 

[SHAKEZ]

The engine isn't the full problem, it's just part of it. But don't worry, the industry will self correct, people are way more aware of shitty practices nowadays.

 

[ScHlAuChi]

If we're talking indie, there are still tons of other options, including free and open source ones like godot. There are specialized engines for different types of common indie games available too, like gzdoom for retro first person games, ren'py for visual novels, rpg maker, gamemaker for 2d games, etc.

Yep that is correct, there is also Godot becoming more popular. However Unity is still king in the indie segment.
But Unreal is also getting used more by indies, mainly due to the 2020 licence change that its free until you earn 1m$ making it cheaper than Unity!

For AAA, they have the funds for making in-house engines,

They might have the funds, but the publishers usually arent willing to invest 5+ years in a new engine unless they absolutely have to.
The other problem is, when you hire new people they will have to spend some time to learn the engine, which is not ideal.
For Unreal you can easily find people everywhere.

more often than not these studios already have a perfectly capable engine of their own, like id tech 8, REDengine, Decima, Divinity Engine, 4A engine, etc.

Yeah, I still think making your own engine can make alot of sense when you want to make a game that doesnt fit within the Unreal framework.
Battlefield 6 and all the insane destruction it has is the perfect example of something that can only be done in a custom engine.
But that is becoming rarer these days as engine development has become very expensive and risky.
CD Project Red is the perfect example for that, they switched to UE5 because it wasnt viable anymore for them to do game and engine at the same time.
One of the few remaining AA devs that has their own engine is Remedy, it will be interesting to see how long they keep going with Northlight.

 

[PurePlatinum]

"Slow decay of the industry" is a little much...but I will say that it does make every game look the same. One of my biggest problems with Expedition 33 is how it looks.

 

[Guilty_AI]

CD Project Red is the perfect example for that, they switched to UE5 because it wasnt viable anymore for them to do game and engine at the same time.
One of the few remaining AA devs that has their own engine is Remedy, it will be interesting to see how long they keep going with Northlight.

Based on the reasons cdpr gave, it doesn't look like its supposed inviability can be fixed by transitioning to Unreal. They said it was difficult working on the tech of the engine simultaneously to complement what they needed in the game, however UE5 is also in active development and will inevitably lack the necessary features anyway. The result is that they still need a team to work on new engine features, with the added obstacle of having to keep in contact and working with Epic to get stuff done.

 

[Fbh]

We should wait to see Witcher 4. The techical demo was very impressive and it was running on UE5. Also at 60FPS

This did indeed look great, but lets wait until the game is actually out before praising it.
This is the same studio that famously downgraded the visuals in the Witcher 3 and then went on to lie to investors about the state of Cyberpunk on Ps4/X1.
Until they have the game playable at some event on an actual Ps5 and they let people (or at least journos) go hands on it with, I'll take everything they say and show with a giant grain of salt.

 

[ProtoByte]

I think we all owe Threat Interactive an apology.

half /s

 

[ScHlAuChi]

Based on the reasons cdpr gave, it doesn't look like its supposed inviability can be fixed by transitioning to Unreal. They said it was difficult working on the tech of the engine simultaneously to complement what they needed in the game, however UE5 is also in active development and will inevitably lack the necessary features anyway. The result is that they still need a team to work on new engine features, with the added obstacle of having to keep in contact and working with Epic to get stuff done.

They are working with Epic directly and both sides win, CDPR basically outsourced their engine problem and Epic in return gets info what a dev the size of CDPR needs/wants.
But we will see how well this worked out once Witcher 4 releases

 

[kevboard]

I think we all owe Threat Interactive an apology.

half /s

the only gripe I have with his opinions on UE5 is that he thinks Screen Space Reflections are acceptable... which is heresy as far as I am concerned

 

[Guilty_AI]

They are working with Epic directly and both sides win, CDPR basically outsourced their engine problem and Epic in return gets info what a dev the size of CDPR needs/wants.

Not exactly a replicable solution however. Other devs will still run into problems of engine limitations

 

[Guilty_AI]

the only gripe I have with his opinions on UE5 is that he thinks Screen Space Reflections are acceptable... which is heresy as far as I am concerned

They're fine as long as used correctly.

 

[ScHlAuChi]

Not exactly a replicable solution however. Other devs will still run into problems of engine limitations

Unless what Epic and CDPR cook up works as a solution for all devs, but we will see about that!

 

[Guilty_AI]

Unless what Epic and CDPR cook up works as a solution for all devs, but we will see about that!

There's no such thing as a fit-all solution with stuff like this. It'll perhaps add some nice features but there'll always be the need for other types of tech in other games, and Epic won't necessarily be working with them to solve those.

 

[kevboard]

They're fine as long as used correctly.

there's only a single acceptable use for SSR, and that is on the hood while using the hood cam in a racing game.

I don't accept any other use as "correctly" using them.

a well made combination of perspective corrected cubemaps, planar reflections and duplicated geometry should have been the direction the industry should have gone... but alas, slapping SSR on everything and adding an often shitty low quality cubemap fallback sadly has become the norm. even worse when the fallback is actually good looking, and ruined by the addition of SSR, like they did in NFS Unbound.

 

[Guilty_AI]

there's only a single acceptable use for SSR, and that is on the hood while using the hood cam in a racing game.

Or puddles and water in said racing game. Generally any game with little or no vertical camera movement should do fine with them

 

[Evil Calvin]

Just make smaller, exciting, beautiful games like Hollow Knight Silksong, Ninja Gaiden Ragebound, Shinobi, Blue Prince....etc.

Just end the fascination with 4K, 120fps, hyper realistic games.....just make them smaller and fun.

 

[kevboard]

Or puddles and water in said racing game. Generally any game with little or no vertical camera movement should do fine with them

it's not the worst usecase, but even there, why?
when Forza switched from perfectly good planar reflections in Horizon 3, to SSR in Horizon 4, I was baffled.

even in racing games the artifacts will show up, and they are just so unnecessary

 

[crackajack]

Yes I named those as licenceable engines, but that doesnt mean they are a viable option!

Unity is technically worse than Unreal and has never been used in a single AAA game.
CryEngine while technically viable, hasnt been updated for over 2 years, doesnt seem to be in active development currently and has worse licencing terms than Unreal.
Making your own engine isnt an option unless you have endless time and money, hence why more devs stopped doing that.

This means Unreal is the ONLY viable option for 99% of developers!
Is that ideal? Probably not, but thats just how it is!

Kojima got Decima. Was probably some special deal to get him on board, but still, if the "payment" is right you probably can license all sorts of existing engines.
Also one very obvious one would be to just stick with Unreal4. It's not like Arkham Knight or whatever is actually looking a gen older and you are maybe more likely to find a specialist that can add some features you might absolutely need. So not a full homegrown engine, but build on something that is kinda abandoned but also "finished".

 

[Tokio Blues]

Decima engine its awesome.

 

[Guilty_AI]

it's not the worst usecase, but even there, why?
when Forza switched from perfectly good planar reflections in Horizon 3, to SSR in Horizon 4, I was baffled.

even in racing games the artifacts will show up, and they are just so unnecessary

SSR is much cheaper in terms of performance, planar reflections are usually better for mirrored surfaces that need to reflect something off-screen, like a wall mirror.

 

[ScHlAuChi]

Kojima got Decima. Was probably some special deal to get him on board, but still,

Kojima was looking for an engine and got offered Decima. Other devs wont be that lucky.

if the "payment" is right you probably can license all sorts of existing engines.

Even if that was possible, it usually means you get those engines "as is" without any support and often no documentation -> useless.

Also one very obvious one would be to just stick with Unreal4. It's not like Arkham Knight or whatever is actually looking a gen older and you are maybe more likely to find a specialist that can add some features you might absolutely need. So not a full homegrown engine, but build on something that is kinda abandoned but also "finished"

UE4 isnt viable if you want NextGen visuals that most gamers expect nowadays.
Just look at this forum when people call games like Cronos looking Last Gen....

 

[Guilty_AI]

UE4 isnt viable if you want NextGen visuals that most gamers expect nowadays.
Just look at this forum when people call games like Cronos looking Last Gen....

A lot of the greatest hits today aren't exactly doing wonders in graphical terms. Abandoning the pursuit of extreme visual fidelity for just a good "last-gen" one seems like a perfectly viable solution.

 

[kevboard]

SSR is much cheaper in terms of performance, planar reflections are usually better for mirrored surfaces that need to reflect something off-screen, like a wall mirror.

of course it's cheaper, but it's just not worth the visual downgrade. the moment anything in front of you is slightly off the ground, or there's a hangover, like the branches of a tree, you'll get nasty occlusion artifacts.

even just cubemaps are preferable

it annoyed me in NFS Unbound the most, because that game actually has pretty good planar reflections on road surfaces, BUT THEN THEY OVERLAYED SSR on top, creating artifacts...
and it's not like SSR is free, it absolutely can have a big cost. so they opted to have SSR instead of more complete planar reflections :/

 

[Guilty_AI]

of course it's cheaper, but it's just not worth the visual downgrade. the moment anything in front of you is slightly off the ground, or there's a hangover, like the branches of a tree, you'll get nasty occlusion artifacts.

There are plenty of solutions to those issues. Like i said, it works very well if used correctly. The problem is devs not using it correctly, which can also be said of other solutions as well (planar reflections for example can needlessly kill performance if geometry level isn't adjusted correctly)

 

[Clear]

I would've agreed with you moons ago, but nowadays devs still need a team dedicated to maintaning the engine all the same, even if its a third party one.

I'd say the larger issue is just how the current industry is stuck in a constant state of hiring and firing thousands of people at every new dev cycle instead of retaining talent (not to mention outsourcing). This does generate the need of new blood coming into the job mostly knowledgeable of how to do stuff and the use of standard tools and work pipelines.

Thing is, these realities feed into the very problem op is talking about, so i'd say overreliance on UE is more of a symptom to a larger issue rather than the issue itself.

To maintain an engine requires not only deep knowledge of its inner workings, but that to be preserved in a transferrable form so should the system architects and seniors depart continuity can be kept. That's a substantial documentation task, and often not suited to the actual engineers working on the thing because they'd rather be solving problems and optimizing workflows than painstakingly documenting their solutions in a readable form.

If you wonder why something like the Fox Engine has faded away, this is the most likely reason. When Kojima left, its likely that a lot of hires left with him or shortly thereafter. And for new team-members, picking up from where their predecessors left off is no small ask.

Its just way more practical to take a commonly known industry-standard product like Unreal, because even if the version in use at the studio is customized substantially, at least its only those extensions that need to be maintained.

I cannot stress how much of a no-brainer it is to minimize the risk of knowledge loss. Because even if bridging gaps isn't too heavy a burden initially, it accumulates over time and you can end up having to deal with spaghetti-code scenarios as a result of past bodge-fixes made with inadequate understanding.

 

[SABRE220]

While I always applaud and appreciate when devs make their own impressive engines, the fact is the majority of devs simply don't have the technical competence or ambition to push tech anymore. Even Sony's own first party, which had industry-leading tech in their engines simply carried their PS4 pipeline forward and haven't even gotten virtualized geometry working in their engines, something that is transformational, and they haven't even gotten a real-time global illumination system working by the end of the gen.

The only devs that have actually delivered next-gen tech outside UE5 on consoles have been Ubisoft, ironically. Ue has done far more good than bad this gen due to it delivering next-gen tech in the hands of tiny talented studios who have proceeded to deliver impressive games like Wukong, Clair obscure, stellar blade, etc, with budgets a fraction of the lazy devs with their lauded proprietary engines. The engine had multi threading issues before but they have improved on that as well. Devs lacking technical proficiency will deliver unoptimized games with or without UE. I mean, look at FROM, they still cannot being able to deliver consistent frame times with their PS3.5 gen tech on next gen consoles.

Another problem is that devs don't seem to prioritize what they want. UE5 on consoles was capable of delivering consistent performance and amazing tech at 1080p-1440p targets at 30fps. The problem is that they push the same settings on 60fps mode, resulting in the game running at 720p to 900p with terrible image quality and inconsistent performance. If they have to deliver a 60fps mode, then turn off lumen, etc, and just deliver a safe and cross-gen 60fps mode with most of the bells and whistles turned off but stable performance. If the 60fps crowd bitches tell them this is what you wanted, 60fps with souped-up last-gen visuals just like the ones you're cheering for over at Sony studios, and if you want next-gen stable tech, you have 30fps mode. The good thing is the latest version of UE5 has improved significantly over older versions in delivering 60fps with most of the bells and whistles turned on. Hell is us for example, is doing a job with their 60fps mode, and I have zero doubt that Coalition games will deliver a showpiece with their UE5 effort at 30 and 60fps. If Witcher 4 looks even close to the demo at 60fps then it will be the most impressive technical showing this gen.

So, no, I don't think UE5 is evil incarnate this gen. It wasn't perfect, but they have consistently been improving it, and it delivers the tools to make David(tiny devs) slay giants with their offerings, and that is easily a net gain.

 

[kevboard]

There are plenty of solutions to those issues.

no good ones. you can not do anything to ensure that obvious artifacts aren't visible right in your face.
because it's quite literally our own character model, or your weapon model creating the artifacts, meaning it's right in your face.
and if it isn't your character, it's an NPC, or a vehicle you're focusing on.

Like i said, it works very well if used correctly. The problem is devs not using it correctly, which can also be said of other solutions as well (planar reflections for example can needlessly kill performance if geometry level isn't adjusted correctly)

ease of use makes devs lazy. when an engine allows you to just enable realtime reflections at the click of a button, on any material you want, chances are the devs will do it without giving it an actual second thought, especially since they are relatively cheap.

it also doesn't help that it's being used to sell "impressive visuals" by finding perfect angles for screenshots. so devs enable it no matter what usually.

I have never seen a game that benefitted from SSR. it woul always be better to only have good cubemaps, than to add SSR to anything.
because, again, when the fallback is so good that you'd say it's a "solution" to hide the issues, I'd rather have only that fallback... and I usually actually do that whenever possible on PC for example. I will turn SSR off, and if it's not possible in the game settings, I try to find .ini tweaks to turn them off.

Indiana Jones was such a game. really good cubemaps, ruined by SSR. SSR off it is! too bad the SSR on water surfaces was bundled into the water quality setting, so you lose 3D waves if you want to remove SSR entirely in Indy. (not sure if there's a console command or ini tweak to keep the water quality high while removing SSR)

 

[Guilty_AI]

no good ones. you can not do anything to ensure that obvious artifacts aren't visible right in your face.
because it's quite literally our own character model, or your weapon model creating the artifacts, meaning it's right in your face.
and if it isn't your character, it's an NPC, or a vehicle you're focusing on.

I don't mean workarounds, technical solutions that make it so these do not happen at all. The issue you've described is solved by adjusting the depth buffer. Border artifacts can be solved by over-rendering. What happens is you'll sometimes see games not doing these properly.

 

[kevboard]

I don't mean workarounds, technical solutions that make it so these do not happen at all. The issue you've described is solved by adjusting the depth buffer. Border artifacts can be solved by over-rendering. What happens is you'll sometimes see games not doing these properly.

I have never seen games do any of this properly.

I have never seen a single game render beyond the screen to solve the edges disappearing, and I have yet to see a single game where your character model or weapon model doesn't create in-your-face artifacts.

and no depth buffer adjustments will ever solve NPCs creating artifacts all around their bodies...
even in the best case scenarios, gimme the fallback, keep the SSR

 

[Guilty_AI]

I have never seen games do any of this properly.

The cropping issue is more common, but i rarely see depth buffer artifacts appear, usually only in janky games. Even CP2077, which doesn't exactly have the best implementation of SSR doesn't suffer from it (most of the time). The only 'real' limitation of SSR you can't truly solve is when you decide to look down.

 

[Physiognomonics]

We should wait to see Witcher 4. The techical demo was very impressive and it was running on UE5. Also at 60FPS

Yes I was about to talk about UE5.6. The secret being they are finally embracing hardware RT on consoles. Their error was to spend time at software RT, which was a mistake, as it's almost produced only bad results whether performance or IQ.

AT least it showed that software RT was a deadend, even on high PC.

 

[kevboard]

The cropping issue is more common, but i rarely see depth buffer artifacts appear, usually only in janky games. The only 'real' limitation of SSR you can't truly solve is when you decide to look down.

play Indiana Jones, hold a torch while there's a reflective floor in front of you.
play Oblivion remaster while holding any weapon.

I bet the only reason you don't see obvious issues in that screenshot is because your katana is almost completely off-screen.

Ghostrunner 1 has UE4 RT reflections thankfully tho. so you can avoid SSR easily without any issues (although the devs forgot to enable the correct flags on all surfaces... so some random glass walls will have only cubemaps...)

 

[Guilty_AI]

play Indiana Jones, hold a torch while there's a reflective floor in front of you.
play Oblivion remaster while holding any weapon.

I bet the only reason you don't see obvious issues in that screenshot is because your katana is almost completely off-screen.

Didn't see them in Days Gone, in Cyberpunk (most of the time), Control, etc. Like i said, it can happen, but it's not a problem inherent of SSR, it's just poor implementation.

 

[PlayStaytion]

The issue is training and experience with the tool-chain. You can't just pick up these extraordinarily complex programs in an afternoon!

Maintaining your own engine also complicates staffing and therefore productivity over the long-term. Its a very substantial overhead for minimal material gain, as ultimately the functionality matters more than the tools used to achieve it.

I'm not an expert in Gen Z topics but training pussies have never worked before and never will be. A normal person usually will unlock more brain neurons naturally and see all things work for him.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Saying UE5 is ruining the industry ignores all the games running UE5 that run just fine.

I have played quite a few UE5 games and only experienced real problems in maybe two of them. My overall impression is positive, but I hope Epic will continue to improve this engine, because it's not perfect yet. UE5 games often have problems with stuttering when traversing. In SH2 Remake that stuttering really annoyed me, but in most games this only occurs occasionally and doesn't affect my overall experience, so I can live with that.

Thanks to UE5, I feel like game graphics have reached a new level, resembling CGI (Hellblade 2). Such impressive graphics fidelity has it's cost, but modern GPUs definitely have the power to run this engine, especially with DLSS. Thanks to the UE5 engine, even smaller AAA studios can create amazing-looking games like Robocop. This is one of the best first-person shooter games I've played in a long time and it runs quite well on my 4080S even at 4K native, but DLSS improves experience even more for sure.

Native 4K - 87fps

https://i.ibb.co/wrwv4vVH/Robo-Cop-Unfinished-Business-Win64-Shipping-2025-09-16-23-47-52-977.jpg

DLSSQ - 112fps

https://i.ibb.co/Mym7q1P7/4-K-DLSSQ-fg2.jpg

DLSSQ + FGx2 - 172fps

https://i.ibb.co/Mym7q1P7/4-K-DLSSQ-fg2.jpg

1440p DLSS Ultra Quality (77% res scale) + FGx2. The smoothness and responsiveness at 222fps is insane. This game proves that UE5 games can run very well.

 

[DragonNCM]

UE5 have a lot of things that can help in faster development of games.......but needs prodevs to actually optimize it well.

 

[Juza]

This is true, but at the same time it's obvious Epic is bending over backwards to use this game as a marketing tool. So if The Witcher 4 looks and plays impressive because CDPR have a direct line to the best engineers at Epic to fix problems that doesn't really solve things for the average developer.

Epic's engineers have helped out on a bunch of UE5 games already even the Chinese devs, and some of those games still launched (and remain) in a rough state. That points more to the engine itself than just access to Epic devs.
And with The Witcher 4 specifically, CDPR have already clarified that what people saw was literally a pure tech demo, not representative of the final game. So it doesn't really prove much for the average dev.

 

[Rob_27]

Go back to UE4

 

[dgrdsv]

Go back to UE4

Jedi Survivor is UE4.

 

[ozz ex machina]

I like to play on the couch, on the TV - and not have a single graphical setting to worry about. These days - my time is more precious than my money.

Your time is more precious than your money but you won't invest in a half decent PC? Okay lol.

 

[Felessan]

Your time is more precious than your money but you won't invest in a half decent PC? Okay lol.

PC eats too much time for all it troubleshooting and googling problem solving. And it's a hell for technically unsophisticated.
Good platform for young and enthusiastic, not so much for everyone else.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

The only thing that can be done is to find high quality game developers. The current batch we have today I've not been much impressed with.

I feel that's the main point. Most of these studios have hired a bunch of low talent goobers and thrown this engine at them, hence the results.